The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3

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Post by rincon Tue May 11, 2021 3:30 pm

Here in Belgium vaccinations have reached 90% of >65yo (1 dose at least) and 30% of >45yo (1 dose at least) and as such hospitalization and death rates are down. So over the weekend curfew ended and outdoor activities resumed after long closures. Including opening of terraces for bars and restaurants which was great to see.

In Venezuela is the opposite situation, one of my best friend's dad died from covid a few months ago, another has just left the hospital and is recovering. A high school teacher of ours' (we are quite a close community in this school) died this week while another teacher looked critical but after weeks in the ICU recovered and went home. Cases and deaths are out of control, everyone has close friends or relatives that have died or been seriously ill.

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Post by MindYourThinking Wed May 12, 2021 6:12 am

https://covidvaccinereactions.com/

This link is in no way a direct dismissal of the vaccine as I haven’t taken it. The only thing I noticed was one friend who had a chest outbreak (rash) and another who had pain in the arm and a fever during his second stage of shots. It’s more to share the whole story about vaccinations as with every good there is bad...side effects and worse which have been published about. For those of you that know me beyond this platform and on Facebook, this is not a new subject or topic.

As always, I only promote critical thinking. But some of you are caught up in the system which becomes apparent when you call someone “hippie”. Why? Because you aren’t the first and won’t be the last. What does that even mean? Have you no respect for another that you cannot see one past a label which only serves you make you feel a false level of comfort. Kind of like what science does...psychology is rooted in metaphysics. The behavior modification is a major point in the Prussian schooling system. While we will won’t always agree, I actually have these conversations beyond this platform and I’m able to hold conversations which allow for exploration of such a “unknown” phenomena. All I know is that there’s a major division occurring (which I noticed during the election 8 years ago) and important thing is than we maintain our humanity, connection and liberty to choose for ourselves so long as we aren’t harming others.

THAT IS MY MAIN POINT. Once people create a narrative where I’m responsible for anyone other than myself, we are in danger of losing our choice and PLEASE DO CONSIDER WHAT THAT ACTUALLY MEANS. THE THOUGHT MAY SERVE TO COMFORT YOU NOW, BUT REALIZE IT WOULD NEVER END IN TERMS OF WHAT ELSE YOU WOULD BE RELINQUISHING WITH WITH SUCH A VOTE OF CONSENT

It’s wild because I feel some of y’all was grasping that up until that fear creeped in...

For those that are curious about the actual nature of death since so many of you are crying about it

For those interested in the whole story.

I spoke about 1-2 months ago with an old friend who got the Johnson and Johnson shots a few days before they had to stop trials due to complications.

The truth is people died due to health complications before this virus and people actually die from organ failure which can be caused by a multitude of health complications. Again, I have an at risk father which actually means the being already had health complications. I wonder why? Could it be lifestyle choices that cause diabetes because if you actually researched disease you would realize these viruses and bacteria can only thrive (survive) when the body is specific (compromised) condition.

At what stage in this 1+ years will we realize the fear of death is actually causing more harm than good.

Does anyone know the survival rate of COVID? If not, perhaps you should research it then consider if such a percentage warrants a massive experiment. I mean if we’re going by the science, let’s call it what it is. Doctors own practices and are practitioners...they operate on speculation and with so many question marks given the situation, they have removed all liability from the companies.

Again, I’m not here claiming to speak truth or know it all, but somehow y’all are so sure of yourselves given a situation which is a majority speculation.
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Post by The Franchise Wed May 12, 2021 11:02 am

@rincon wrote:Here in Belgium vaccinations have reached 90% of >65yo (1 dose at least) and 30% of >45yo (1 dose at least) and as such hospitalization and death rates are down. So over the weekend curfew ended and outdoor activities resumed after long closures. Including opening of terraces for bars and restaurants which was great to see.

In Venezuela is the opposite situation, one of my best friend's dad died from covid a few months ago, another has just left the hospital and is recovering. A high school teacher of ours' (we are quite a close community in this school) died this week while another teacher looked critical but after weeks in the ICU recovered and went home. Cases and deaths are out of control, everyone has close friends or relatives that have died or been seriously ill.


You say as such, as if this isnt a seasonal virus following the path it was always going to take.

If it is as you say, what about the Sychelles? The most vaccinated nation in the world I believe, seeing an upsurge in cases. There are many other places with similar (even if less dramatic effect) trends.

Venezuala? The deaths per million are very low, as are the cases per million. What am I missing here?


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Post by rincon Wed May 12, 2021 11:32 am

What you are missing is context and understanding. In Venezuela nothing is reported officially, that is the way of dictatorships and regimes. Its an immense crisis.
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Post by Myesyats Wed May 12, 2021 11:48 am

@MindYourThinking wrote:The truth is people died due to health complications before this virus and people actually die from organ failure which can be caused by a multitude of health complications. Again, I have an at risk father which actually means the being already had health complications. I wonder why? Could it be lifestyle choices that cause diabetes because if you actually researched disease you would realize these viruses and bacteria can only thrive (survive) when the body is specific (compromised) condition.

At what stage in this 1+ years will we realize the fear of death is actually causing more harm than good.

Does anyone know the survival rate of COVID? If not, perhaps you should research it then consider if such a percentage warrants a massive experiment. I mean if we’re going by the science, let’s call it what it is. Doctors own practices and are practitioners...they operate on speculation and with so many question marks given the situation, they have removed all liability from the companies.

Again, I’m not here claiming to speak truth or know it all, but somehow y’all are so sure of yourselves given a situation which is a majority speculation.

What experiment? AFAIK various types of coronaviruses have been reserached for many years and this vaccine isnt a new thing, its a fruit of decades of labor. It wasnt created within a year.
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Post by Babun Wed May 12, 2021 2:05 pm

Got my second Biontech jab, I feel exactly the same as with the first time (just some light pain in my arm, no other symptoms).
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Post by Babun Fri May 14, 2021 2:41 pm

Why is the US vaccination rate stagnating? We'll catch up to you within 2 weeks at this rate hmm
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Post by Thimmy Fri May 14, 2021 2:48 pm

@Babun wrote:Got my second Biontech jab, I feel exactly the same as with the first time (just some light pain in my arm, no other symptoms).


Good for you. I had a light headache and nausea on the day when I took it, but no arm discomfort, like I had after the first shot. Felt completely fine the following day.
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Post by Babun Fri May 14, 2021 3:01 pm

@Thimmy wrote:
@Babun wrote:Got my second Biontech jab, I feel exactly the same as with the first time (just some light pain in my arm, no other symptoms).


Good for you. I had a light headache and nausea on the day when I took it, but no arm discomfort, like I had after the first shot. Felt completely fine the following day.

Everyone is different. My superior who is male, 57y old got both Astrazeneca jabs. He had a cramp on the left side, nothing more. A woman from the R&D division in her 40s felt fine after the second Biontech jab, came to work then started shuddering. She's been out for 2 days, apparently developed light fever and nausea. All in all, you got away fine considering what cocktail is possible Very Happy
I still have a little fading cramp on left shoulder. It's disappearing though.
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Post by Thimmy Fri May 14, 2021 5:37 pm

I got 2x Pfizer. Many of my colleagues got Astrazeneca before it was banned here. Almost all of the ones who are in their late 40s/50s claimed they felt sick for 3 days.

That said, Norwegians who work in the public sector have a tendency to exaggerate illness, so that they can take the maximum amount of days off work Laughing
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Post by rincon Fri May 14, 2021 6:15 pm

@Babun wrote:Why is the US vaccination rate stagnating? We'll catch up to you within 2 weeks at this rate hmm

Leftover people don't want it. There are enough vaccines for everyone but no takers.
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Post by McLewis Fri May 14, 2021 7:30 pm

Hopefully the CDC lifting mask and distancing restrictions (for fully vaxxed folks) will encourage more people to get the vaccine.

I'm fully vaxxed (Pfizer), but will still wear a mask and distance if that's what's called for by an establishment or local guideline.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri May 14, 2021 7:46 pm

@Babun wrote:Why is the US vaccination rate stagnating? We'll catch up to you within 2 weeks at this rate hmm
whoever wants a vaccine has already gotten it, at this stage the rest are people who are hesitant to get it and are waiting to see if maybe herd immunity is achieved without them needing to risk it

@McLewis wrote:Hopefully the CDC lifting mask and distancing restrictions (for fully vaxxed folks) will encourage more people to get the vaccine.

I'm fully vaxxed (Pfizer), but will still wear a mask and distance if that's what's called for by an establishment or local guideline.
I think it'll just give careless people license to not respect the rules without social stigma, hope I'm wrong
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Post by Babun Fri May 14, 2021 8:13 pm

@Thimmy wrote:I got 2x Pfizer. Many of my colleagues got Astrazeneca before it was banned here. Almost all of the ones who are in their late 40s/50s claimed they felt sick for 3 days.

That said, Norwegians who work in the public sector have a tendency to exaggerate illness, so that they can take the maximum amount of days off work Laughing

The medics here get 2 days off automatically after their jabs. I could still see why some would simulate the symptoms Laughing

@BC and McLewis
Sad state of affairs, other countries would kill to have them.

The Indian variant seems to be worrisome at least. Case numbers have doubled within a week in UK from 520 to 1330, 4 confirmed deaths by now.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57109660
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Post by McLewis Fri May 14, 2021 8:48 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@Babun wrote:Why is the US vaccination rate stagnating? We'll catch up to you within 2 weeks at this rate hmm
whoever wants a vaccine has already gotten it, at this stage the rest are people who are hesitant to get it and are waiting to see if maybe herd immunity is achieved without them needing to risk it

@McLewis wrote:Hopefully the CDC lifting mask and distancing restrictions (for fully vaxxed folks) will encourage more people to get the vaccine.

I'm fully vaxxed (Pfizer), but will still wear a mask and distance if that's what's called for by an establishment or local guideline.
I think it'll just give careless people license to not respect the rules without social stigma, hope I'm wrong


Yeah that will definitely happen in some parts. I think the use of the vaccination card may help curb some of that, at least. I have mine laminated and have copies on my phone and PC just in case.
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Post by Myesyats Fri May 14, 2021 11:40 pm

I'm the last one in my immediate family not vaccinated yet. Grandparents from both sides got pfizer, my parents got moderna, 2 brothers got pfizer and I have pfizer scheduled in 2 weeks time. Nobody had side effects except for light arm pain. I think a lot of people have a tendency to exaggerate their symptoms for dramatic effect.
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Post by Nishankly Sun May 16, 2021 11:22 pm

Flight that I had booked in Oct 2019 that got postponed to June 2020 because of Covid, and then again till March 2021 because I couldn't find a job, which again got postponed to May 31st 2021 due my visa issues because I found a job. 2 weeks for me to decide if I head back home and meet my family for the first time in 2 years or not.

India had moved down to 250k though


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Post by El Gunner Sun May 16, 2021 11:23 pm

as long as you won't have any travel restrictions coming back to France, go for it
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Post by Nishankly Sun May 16, 2021 11:28 pm

I am worried about the vaccine restrictions, EU wants to only allow Moderna and Pfizer vaccined to come back and both are not available if I go back to India right now.
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Post by The Franchise Tue May 18, 2021 11:41 am

@rincon wrote:What you are missing is context and understanding. In Venezuela nothing is reported officially, that is the way of dictatorships and regimes. Its an immense crisis.

And the Seychelles? Mongolia? The various other countries where the vaccine roll out has been followed by an increase in case numbers?

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue May 18, 2021 11:48 am

Can't speak to those, but Chile has an increase in cases after massive vaccination, and it's because they used the Chinese Cinopharm vaccine which has proven to be ineffective. Perhaps they use the same?

Here in MA the government has announced all restrictions, mask wearing mandates, the works will be over on 5/29. Life goes back to being almost completely normal in less than 2 weeks, just as summer starts Proud

Done with the pandemic. We were also one of the first 3 states to hit 70% adult vaccination, and cases have dropped significantly, and we've even had a few days with 0 corona deaths.

Hope the rest of the world catches up soon.


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Post by El Gunner Tue May 18, 2021 11:58 am

the executive director of Namibia's Ministry of Health and Social Services released an official letter yesterday that a 62-year old male individual with no prior symptoms of any kind or illness, died a few hours after receiving his first dose of Covid-19 vaccine. The individual got his vaccine early in the morning, and then drove home. When he got home he complained to his family that he didn't feel well, they then took him to the hospital. There they found his blood pressure was high and his oxygen and pulse saturation dropped below normal levels. They seemed to restore him for a while, but then it got worse again... and by 13h33 he was declared dead.

It doesn't make any mention of which specific vaccine it was, but according to my quick research they've rolled out Oxford's AstraZeneca and the Chinese Sinopharm here in Namibia
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Post by The Franchise Tue May 18, 2021 12:05 pm

Mongolia yes and the Syechelles have used Cinopharm aswell as AstraZeneca.

I dont know about Albania, Azerbaijan and the various others without looking into it again.

The reason is unclear and I wouldnt blame these increases in the vaccine alone as we arent seeing this uniformally everywhere (though looking at "expected deaths" vs actual deaths and not seeing the predicted curve is interesting while not proof).

What I will say though is, it is absolutely impossible to definitively say the vaccine is the primary cause for the decline in cases. I would absolutely challenge that. Perhaps it is a contributing factor, but I cant help but notice many want it to be the primary factor (let alone contributing factor) before it actually be proven such.
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Post by The Franchise Tue May 18, 2021 12:09 pm

@El Gunner wrote:the executive director of Namibia's Ministry of Health and Social Services released an official letter yesterday that a 62-year old male individual with no prior symptoms of any kind or illness, died a few hours after receiving his first dose of Covid-19 vaccine. The individual got his vaccine early in the morning, and then drove home. When he got home he complained to his family that he didn't feel well, they then took him to the hospital. There they found his blood pressure was high and his oxygen and pulse saturation dropped below normal levels. They seemed to restore him for a while, but then it got worse again... and by 13h33 he was declared dead.

It doesn't make any mention of which specific vaccine it was, but according to my quick research they've rolled out Oxford's AstraZeneca and the Chinese Sinopharm here in Namibia

This kind of thing is just so common (relatively speaking), yet so rarely reported by MSM of course.

Bring these anecdotal cases up to anyone and we are supposed to believe, its all coincidence and not connected to the vaccine whatsoever. Yet, if you die 28 days post a positive PCR, you definitely died of COVID though Rolling Eyes

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Post by rincon Tue May 18, 2021 12:14 pm

@The Franchise wrote:
@rincon wrote:What you are missing is context and understanding. In Venezuela nothing is reported officially, that is the way of dictatorships and regimes. Its an immense crisis.

And the Seychelles? Mongolia? The various other countries where the vaccine roll out has been followed by an increase in case numbers?


I don't know the details of those places, how they do it or how they report it, a quick check by simply searching for seychelles their reports say that:

Majority of cases come from unvaccinated people
Of those hospitalized, 80% are unvaccinated
"Almost all" of critical cases are from unvaccinated
No patients have died that have been fully vaccinated
57% of doses are from sinopharm, the most common vaccine in the country

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/13/seychelles-most-vaccinated-nation-on-earth-but-covid-19-has-surged.html

So yeah, doesn't seem unexpected.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue May 18, 2021 12:16 pm

Given that millions of people have died
@The Franchise wrote:Mongolia yes and the Syechelles have used Cinopharm aswell as AstraZeneca.

I dont know about Albania, Azerbaijan and the various others without looking into it again.

The reason is unclear and I wouldnt blame these increases in the vaccine alone as we arent seeing this uniformally everywhere (though looking at "expected deaths" vs actual deaths and not seeing the predicted curve is interesting while not proof).

What I will say though is, it is absolutely impossible to definitively say the vaccine is the primary cause for the decline in cases. I would absolutely challenge that. Perhaps it is a contributing factor, but I cant help but notice many want it to be the primary factor (let alone contributing factor) before it actually be proven such.
If you're looking for a definitive cause you won't find it. The world is too messy for that, and we don't get clean data in real time where it's easy to isolate variables.

I think what we can say with some level of confidence, is that in countries where massive vaccination has rolled out with reputable vaccines (az, moderna, pfizer), and people still acted in a socially-distant way, follow epidemiologists advice, etc cases seem to have dropped faster than in those that did not, and many of those have or are returning to a semblance of normality.
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