The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3

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Post by Robespierre on Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:19 pm

- old population
- epicentre was the most productive side of the country, with highest density
- different mistakes were done, Italy was the first one to be touched from coronavirus in Europe amd inexperience made the rest.
Europe 've rected to same way , minimizing coronavirus at the beginning (and that's fostering the spread of the infection),  deceiving ourselves that it'd not have changed our habits, and at the end accepting the reality of the things : it 's a unprecedented thing and you must treat it harshly. Sacrifices and waivers. A total lockdown for defending. Even Sweden gave up.
Anyway defence is not enough , we should also be able to attack it...it'd be fundamental to identify that ppl who are immune from coronavirus now ( scientists are working for tests capable to detectie antibodies in people cured of coronavirus . In this way this  immune ppl  come back to work and to consent a productive restart. Need , we can't even starve)
Mistakes I said it. For example it  wasn't done immediately a " Red Side "( Red Side = Lockdown) for  Bergamo side and  of course that's creating controversy.
It's been  an incredible mistake not do it.
During this week Italy government and Lombardia region passed the buck on who had to institute Red Side ( since 2001 there is a division of competences between State and Regions.. I add that Coronavirus and so many  different  Health  Systems  are showing the flaws of this Federalism ,requested by  North Lega - when it was still North Lega and not  Lega  led by Salvini aka the Italian AfD ) and they've found out yesterday that .. yes... there was a law that permitted to Lombardia to do it.

P.s. I don't know why we're talking about races. but of course they don't exsist.  It just a cultural construction. You can't talk about races in a scientific way.  Only DNA differentiates human beings . Not by chance same person can be considered as "black" in USA but "white" in Brazil.
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Post by iftikhar on Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:25 pm

@Lucifer wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Freeza wrote:It is peak irony really.


It doesn't get better than this, honestly

These are moments to cherish, really

This imo.
Next in queue should be Modi, Bolsonaro and Trump in no particular order. Corona pls look into it.
Please no, just NO. The zealots will make 1.4 billion people drink cow urine Sad.
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Post by Myesyats on Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:32 pm

@Hans

PiS has really gone off the rails. Topics for next sitting in parliament consist mainly of abortion ban and punishment for sex ed and other nonsense. I have no idea what they're planning because none of it makes sense. Sounds like a diversion of sorts. Dark ages lol.
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Post by Pedram on Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:41 pm

@Myesyats wrote:@Hans

PiS has really gone off the rails. Topics for next sitting in parliament consist mainly of abortion ban and punishment for sex ed and other nonsense. I have no idea what they're planning because none of it makes sense. Sounds like a diversion of sorts. Dark ages lol.

How come the opposition are so weak in Poland, is it Communism blowback and general distrust toward anything resembling a leftist government? feels like the right has unlimited power tbh.

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Post by Myesyats on Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:02 pm

The right has more people in the parliament so they are quite successful in pushing nonsense through.

The left holds "senat" and the right holds "sejm". Sejm is more important, if a decision is 50/50 it goes to the senate (they reject), and then it goes back to sejm and it usually follows through with minor changes and then the President always signs it because he's a right-wing puppet.

And now they're also starting to break constitution and do what they want, so its even worse, and is quickly getting out of hand.

EU should be more aggresive in these cases but the rules are if one state is against action toward someone then they can do very little, and so Hungary is as corrupt as our government and we vote in favor of Hungary and they in return block any action against us and nothing is being done.
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Post by Robespierre on Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:19 pm

@Pedram wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:@Hans

PiS has really gone off the rails. Topics for next sitting in parliament consist mainly of abortion ban and punishment for sex ed and other nonsense. I have no idea what they're planning because none of it makes sense. Sounds like a diversion of sorts. Dark ages lol.

How come the opposition are so weak in Poland, is it Communism blowback and general distrust toward anything resembling a leftist government? feels like the right has unlimited power tbh.



Honestly is there a former Communist  country ( that was  under Warsaw Treaty ) that is not so in recent years ? It's a common situation and I feel it's not a case. Even German East landers ( former DDR) 've this orientation
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Post by Zagadka on Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:25 pm

@Pedram wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:@Hans

PiS has really gone off the rails. Topics for next sitting in parliament consist mainly of abortion ban and punishment for sex ed and other nonsense. I have no idea what they're planning because none of it makes sense. Sounds like a diversion of sorts. Dark ages lol.

How come the opposition are so weak in Poland, is it Communism blowback and general distrust toward anything resembling a leftist government? feels like the right has unlimited power tbh.



Poland, just similar to Ukraine, is basically 2 countries acting as one.

By that I mean, the East part of the country is so different to the West part. It's evident in the voting pattern, culture, where job opportunities are, and just the overall mentality. I feel the change of borders after the war plays a role when you think Lvov was part of Poland and Wroclaw was a German city.

I've lived in Wroclaw for 7 months now and god my job requires me to meet so many people from different walks of life, and I have met ONE solitary PiS supporter. I've met more Konfederacja (which is like the Gen Z version right wing) supporters than PiS supporters even lol Laughing PiS technically economically bribes the poor farmers and the non-industrious east and they turn out for the votes and of course playing on the religion. Both of us know what a cancer it is when religion is mixed with politics and politicians use it to advance their agendas.

Here in Wroclaw everyone tells me if I go to somewhere like Bialystok, Lublin, Rzesow in the east, I'd immediately feel like I am in a completely different country and people will look at me weirdly.

I wanted to make the trip this month...but corona hit Laughing

Pedram...to get a true sense of the real cultural divide in Poland, I recommend you watch this movie. It came to Polish cinema on March 6, I watched it before the lockdown. It's amazing !!

The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3 Sala-samobojcow-hejter-film-2020
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Post by Zagadka on Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:29 pm

@Robespierre wrote:
@Pedram wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:@Hans

PiS has really gone off the rails. Topics for next sitting in parliament consist mainly of abortion ban and punishment for sex ed and other nonsense. I have no idea what they're planning because none of it makes sense. Sounds like a diversion of sorts. Dark ages lol.

How come the opposition are so weak in Poland, is it Communism blowback and general distrust toward anything resembling a leftist government? feels like the right has unlimited power tbh.



Honestly is there a former Communist  country ( that was  under Warsaw Treaty ) that is not so in recent years ? It's a common situation and I feel it's not a case. Even German East landers ( former DDR) 've this orientation


Czech is an interesting case...they are definitely still more right wing than left, but lots more balanced than Poland and Baltic states. technically an Atheist nation and perhaps the only European ex-Warsaw pact country who has a normal functioning relationship with Russia.
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Post by Myesyats on Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:41 pm

@Zagadka wrote:Here in Wroclaw everyone tells me if I go to somewhere like Bialystok, Lublin, Rzesow in the east, I'd immediately feel like I am in a completely different country and people will look at me weirdly.

Don't go.... its rubbish. Poland is basically 2 countries as you said, we call it Poland A and Poland B.

Poland A is more left-wing/central, better developed and more welcoming to foreigners. Poland B is way more religious and backwards.

The only place I'd recommend you to go in the East is Warsaw.

Here is a map of the divide:

The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3 85ab1794bcf43aae1a6e4247e6810de5,780,0,0,0
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:05 pm

@Myesyats wrote:@Hans

PiS has really gone off the rails. Topics for next sitting in parliament consist mainly of abortion ban and punishment for sex ed and other nonsense. I have no idea what they're planning because none of it makes sense. Sounds like a diversion of sorts. Dark ages lol.


I really find it scary and also puzzling, why there's quite such a reactionary rush suddenly, growing, in the recent decade or so, towards pre-modern, pre-emancipation, pre-secular ideas in some of the conservative parts and parties of modern societies.

How the fuck does sex education, basic, modest feminist or women's rights ideas, or just being secular, generally believing in scientific finding, suddenly become such a tick off for those people?

I really thought we all were further than this. I never thought there could be attempts to roll back progress like this.

I mean, Poland is, or has been in recent decades, a modern, liberal, democratic county, like any other country. There's so many smart, normal, nice, open minded people there. But the momentum of some political developments is downright horrifying.
Same in other countries, I mean look a the fucking US, the shining city on the hill. What's going on?

And btw, why are getting people off on destroying their country's nature? How is that 'conservative'?

Apart from the occasional weekend visit to a good friend's parents' house in the countryside near Boleslawiec, the last trip I took to Poland was cycling from Biawa Podlaska way in the east northwards through Lithuania to Riga, a few years ago. Beautiful stuff, great people, great countryside.
And btw, literally better cell phone reception in the wilderness next to the Bug river, right at the Belorussian border, than in Berlin Mitte Laughing
But apparently just before, PiS government had removed national park protections gain against logging.
So when we rode through the buffalo national park there, one of the remaining primeval forests in Europe I guess, there was the noise of chainsaws, and huge piles of freshly cut timber everywhere ..

what's the upside here? what's fantastic about fracking, and destroying forests?

it's just simple greed in the end, isn't it
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Post by McLewis on Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:14 pm

@Art Morte wrote:Apparently black people in the US have been proportionally more affected by corona than other groups. Is it because:
a) they live in more crowded suburbs?
b) they don't comply with social distancing rules as well as others?
c) something else?


Pedram's correct in that lotta black folks live in more urban areas (which have less living space than the suburbs).

Here in the Detroit area, blacks folks make up a sizable share of the gig and minimum wage economy. They can't afford to shelter in place and many can't work from home due to the nature of their jobs, which require mobility. So they expose themselves to the virus at higher numbers.

As a direct result of the above, nlack folks are also far more likely to live below the poverty line and are therefore far less likely to have a primary care physician. Instead, we only really visit doctors for serious issues (Emergency room) or minor issues (Urgent Care). Since Covid-19 treatment has to begin with the primary care physician, this automatically reduces the pathways for infected blacks to get proper care in hospitals. As such, many contract the virus and because respiratory problems like Asthma are more prominent and prevalent in black people, it ravages our respiratory systems more severely. Other conditions like diabetes, high blood pressure, and a very high chance for heart disease also make the virus more deadly for black folks as well.
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Post by S on Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:22 pm

I think it's way too early to make an observation comparing mortality rate between different ethnic groups.

Right now, there's only solid evidence to say (based on a large sample size) that death rate is higher in old people and ones with pre-existing conditions. Death rate is also twice as much higher in males than females but that could more to do with the male to female ratio in various countries I suppose.

And as pointed out the cultural practices in different countries are different. Lot of hugging and kissing in Latin culture. The younger ones live with their families. And that some nations(and their leaders) were more pro-active than the others and were quick to take action to combat the virus and hence a lesser number of deaths.

Nothing wrong with Sepi's observation but there is just so many other determining factors as to why countries like Italy or Spain have more number of casualties compared to the rest especially when the worst is yet to come for many countries.

On other note :



Just wow Laughing
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Post by S on Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:27 pm

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Post by Warrior on Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:55 pm

I was about to post that lol Laughing funny how things turned out huh
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:59 pm

@Zagadka wrote:I've reported your post Hans and putting an end to it. You are incapable of receiving any new information or criticism or even possibilities or thought, you can only transmit. Communication with you only goes on way...and such communication is a complete waste of time and energy. Hell, just less than 1 month ago, you were telling us all how this Coronavirus is no big deal and people are overblowing it accusing me of teenage hysteria!!!...you never admit your mistakes bu love to slam others for their, the definition of a self-centred bigot with zero intellectual curiosity or self-awareness. Go jerk yourself off to sleep repeatedly calling me a neonazi in your bathroom if it makes you feel better.

You simply can't grasp the idea that some people can make mistakes at times and wonder about extremes, especially at younger age, but mature later on and that doesn't define them forever.

You're the type of filth who'd demand someone to lose their job, livelihood, or reputation based on one Tweet they made 10 years ago.

Anyways...

back on topic.


Would be interested to hear what violation you did report me for Laughing

Anyway, proud to have cracked your recent zenlike, conspicuously serene "it's all good man" attitude Proud
It's good to let it out now and then.

However, if you really, honestly apologized here for those posts back then, and retracted them, I must have missed it. In that case I of course won't call you out for it any further.

Unless you decide to run for public office, that is, the voters would have a right to know Smile
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:10 pm

@Art

It's like someone wrote this for you

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/us/coronavirus-black-americans-race/index.html
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Post by Art Morte on Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:21 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:@Art

It's like someone wrote this for you

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/us/coronavirus-black-americans-race/index.html


"Black Americans have more existing medical issues, less access to health care, and are more likely to work in unstable jobs -- all factors that have made the coronavirus pandemic disproportionately hurt blacks more."

Have Hispanics been affected the same way? Do they have less access to health care and work unstable jobs?
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Post by Robespierre on Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:47 pm

Anyway it's passed a month since lockdown in Italy and it seems descent is starting on.

the downward trend appears as confirmed . today we've 3'039 new cases,,  yesterday  increase had been 3,599 units and Sunday even 4,316.
Today we've 604 deaths (yesterday there were 636), while the healed people are  1,555 (yesterday by 1,022), the second highest value ever. For this reason, the number of people currently ill increases "only" for 880 units, compared to 1,941 yesterday: it's the lowest increase since 10 March.

Still phase 1 of course.
Phase 2 ( the gradual reopening of some productive sectors)is expected for May if situation continues to improve.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:59 pm

@Art Morte wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:@Art

It's like someone wrote this for you

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/us/coronavirus-black-americans-race/index.html


"Black Americans have more existing medical issues, less access to health care, and are more likely to work in unstable jobs -- all factors that have made the coronavirus pandemic disproportionately hurt blacks more."

Have Hispanics been affected the same way? Do they have less access to health care and work unstable jobs?
I would expect that to be the case
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Post by Zagadka on Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:02 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Zagadka wrote:I've reported your post Hans and putting an end to it. You are incapable of receiving any new information or criticism or even possibilities or thought, you can only transmit. Communication with you only goes on way...and such communication is a complete waste of time and energy. Hell, just less than 1 month ago, you were telling us all how this Coronavirus is no big deal and people are overblowing it accusing me of teenage hysteria!!!...you never admit your mistakes bu love to slam others for their, the definition of a self-centred bigot with zero intellectual curiosity or self-awareness. Go jerk yourself off to sleep repeatedly calling me a neonazi in your bathroom if it makes you feel better.

You simply can't grasp the idea that some people can make mistakes at times and wonder about extremes, especially at younger age, but mature later on and that doesn't define them forever.

You're the type of filth who'd demand someone to lose their job, livelihood, or reputation based on one Tweet they made 10 years ago.

Anyways...

back on topic.


Would be interested to hear what violation you did report me for Laughing

Anyway, proud to have cracked your recent zenlike, conspicuously serene "it's all good man" attitude Proud
It's good to let it out now and then.

However, if you really, honestly apologized here for those posts back then, and retracted them, I must have missed it. In that case I of course won't call you out for it any further.

Unless you decide to run for public office, that is, the voters would have a right to know Smile


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Post by CBarca on Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:18 pm

Well, voting is occurring today in WI, the only state that did not postpone the election. The courts and the legislature teamed up on the executive (Governor Evers) to successfully block any postponement of the election. They actually went one step further, and the US Supreme Court decided that absentee ballots would have to be postmarked TODAY to count in the primary.

It has been reported that many who requested an absentee ballot relatively late on have yet to receive their ballot today. Thus...how can they fill it out and postmark it...jesus christ.

Great shame today is felt in Wisconsin by many. My father, who i've mentioned before is a Republican and voted for Trump in 2016, sent a vehemently worded letter to the local state representative, vowing never to vote for him again. His attitude extended to the entire WI Republican party. I think he might actually vote Democrat in upcoming state level elections. I actually look around and a great many conservatives that I know are disappointed and upset by this election occurring. Liberals are angry. I'm angry. Absolutely nobody is happy. This is an embarrassment for the state on a national level.

Republicans will probably get what they want, though. At the cost of lives, they are pursuing a state supreme court spot. They know it's important. In 2020, when the Governor rejects the gerrymandered maps the WI legislature comes up with, the courts will draw up the map. Republicans needed that to be a conservative court, so they can continue on with criminal levels of gerrymandering.

Evers fought hard and even forced an eleventh hour decision from the courts. However, I am a bit disappointed. I needed more from him. It isn't his fault, but his inability to postpone the election will likely cost lives in the short term, and cost the state politically for the upcoming decade. I might move to Minnesota
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Post by CBarca on Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:22 pm

Oh, btw, an astonishing fact that tells you the level of voter suppression:

Milwaukee, which tends to have 180 polling stations open for the city of 600,000 will have just 5 polling stations open today. Polling stations are cut short due to a lack of poll workers (volunteers who tend to be retired individuals AKA the at risk individuals for COVID-19) and polling stations (often can be in nursing homes or homeless shelters, places that don't work now).
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Post by Babun on Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:23 am

My bro's report who works  in a hospital in Hamburg:
Additional ICU capacity was freed by postponing non immediate operations etc.
As of now, half of the hospital is empty because the expected coronavirus wave of sick people isn't there. Lots of them, including him, stay for the most part at home through Kurzarbeit, for there isn't much to do.
According to statistics, Hamburg is one of the most hard hit region per capita in Germany Very Happy
Either the measures work extremly well or the Wuhan virus is overestimated.
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Post by iftikhar on Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:59 am

@Myesyats, so you are from Poland! First I thought you are from Hungary, the similarities are just creepy. Probably I'm the best person who understands your trepidation. Bangladesh is like a wealthier version of North Korea. Take care, don't lose hope.
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Post by iftikhar on Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:00 am

Any of our regular posters gone missing recently? How is @Vibe?
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