How is Arsenal looking compared

dnmac, if i personally mail you a dead crow, will you upload a video of yourself tucking in to it with some BBQ sauce on the side come May next year?

"As for the top 4, It's going to be the same 4 teams for the next 5 years or so the order just might change around."...

LOL

Thats a bald statement.

We hear the same story every summer. So I dont blame ya!

Whats the fuss about Liverpool?

They always spent money but never brought the right players. This time slightly better but far from making a champions team. ON PAPER. I wish they could win the EPL if not us, really respect them for waiting so long.

Chelsea

Yeah they can do good... spending 70m just to survive in the top4.. why not Daddy?

Man City and Man Utd look like favorites but its too early to tell.

Arsenal will surprise everyone once again.

Lex wrote:dnmac, if i personally mail you a dead crow, will you upload a video of yourself tucking in to it with some BBQ sauce on the side come May next year?

I really will. I am a La Liga fan and in turn get very annoyed at the Premfaces and EPL fans on here and one could say I'm an EPL hater although I watch it constantly as the announcers speak my language and the games are very entertaining.

Now, that being said putting Arsenal 5th is not a slight on them. As much as it pains me to say this I think with all the money Man U, Liverpool, City and Chelsea are spending they have sucked out the top talent from other leagues and the EPL's top 4 is incredibly strong and in turn is the best league in the world (it takes a lot for me to say that). Not to mention they have taken the best players off of the other teams in the EPL as well.

It is my belief that the climate in the EPL has changed so drastically in the last year that Wenger's system can no longer be effective to compete for titles. It is also my belief that Wenger is so stubborn he is the last man in the top 5-6 teams to recognize this.

Therefore if he doesn't do something drastic in the next year or so Arsenal is going to be in a very bad position which they are right now.

The EPl is looking a lot like Spain except there are 3-4 teams at the top instead of 2. The big are cherry picking the best players from around the world and also taking who ever they want from the smaller teams in the EPL weather the teams want to sell them or not.

I mean I'm all for Arsenal fans being in a better mood, but this is the same team and the same message board that at the begining of the week had two threads over 25 pages long of there fans and other fans crushing them and wondering what the hell Wenger is doing.

The team also quit in that game against Man U, and I know they had tons of injuries but other teams with worse players would have put up a better fight.

I just don't know what has changed since then????? You bought a couple above average defenders and a good midfielder who is a shadow of the player that left. IMO to say Arsenal will finish in the top 4 in there current state is pure homerism and just being blind to your surroundings. They have no momentum, less talent and there coach is asked everyday if he's going to quit. A lot of your old players are calling for his job and you have 1 point out of 9 so far.

Now you and I have had our differences in the past so this is not a crush Arsenal post, but just what on Earth points to Arsenal having a better season then Man U, City, Chelsea or Arsenal????? Even better what has changed this week because if you didn't notice the other teams in the top 4 bought players and strengthened there teams too, with better players I might add.

I dont think Liverpool have more talent then Arsenal. I think they have a better (or more effective) gameplan attacking and defensively, but Arsenal to me have better players and more talent.

That doesnt mean automatically they will finish above Pool, but I wont get to high on Pools good start and Arsenals bad one just yet. Long way to go.

highburied wrote:"As for the top 4, It's going to be the same 4 teams for the next 5 years or so the order just might change around."...

LOL

Thats a bald statement.

We hear the same story every summer. So I dont blame ya!

Whats the fuss about Liverpool?

They always spent money but never brought the right players. This time slightly better but far from making a champions team. ON PAPER. I wish they could win the EPL if not us, really respect them for waiting so long.

Chelsea

Yeah they can do good... spending 70m just to survive in the top4.. why not Daddy?

Man City and Man Utd look like favorites but its too early to tell.

Arsenal will surprise everyone once again.

When you say Arsenal will surprise everyone again what does that mean.

Who slights Arsenal? Every year all the pundits and fans pick them to finish in the top 4 and about 20% pick them to win the league with 10% saying they can win the Champions League. And every year they do exactly that. Other then this year when have people said they wouldn't make the top 4?

There is a flow chart that is dead on to how Arsenal's season will go and it's a running joke because it's so true every year.

I just fail to see who they have surprised in the last 6 years? If anything they have dissapointed the 20% of fans picking them to win the league.

I don't get it???????

If you go by pundits and pub fans think every season, we should've be in the conference national by now

The Franchise wrote:I dont think Liverpool have more talent then Arsenal. I think they have a better (or more effective) gameplan attacking and defensively, but Arsenal to me have better players and more talent.

That doesnt mean automatically they will finish above Pool, but I wont get to high on Pools good start and Arsenals bad one just yet. Long way to go.

Thats your opinion and I respect that. I'm not going to do some useless player by player chart because I hate those.

I think what people fail to see is it's going to take a lot of time to get the enviornment at Arsenal to the level it is at Liverpool right now. If Arsenal lose a game it's the end of the world kind of similar to when Hogdson was at Liverpool last year, that takes a big toll on players. IF Liverpool lose a game this year it's an annoyance but it's back to work and everyone is confident in the plan and system. Everyone is happy with the coach and the players are all playing at a very high level. Arsenal's players are playing no where near there best individually or collectivley and who knows when that changes.

So just judging talent is not the only thing, not to mention the season has already started and there putting themselves in a hole while they have to integrate new players as well and Van Persie isn't even injured yet.

I will also add that I do disagree with you that I think Liverpool has better players and also one of the top 10 players in the world who is a total superstar and can win games by himself. Not to mention Arsenal have the worst medical staff in all of sports.

To sum this up if you think Arsenal have better players that's your opinion and I respect it, but they are lacking in so many other areas that the players are not even the main issue right now.

dnmac4 wrote:

The Franchise wrote:I dont think Liverpool have more talent then Arsenal. I think they have a better (or more effective) gameplan attacking and defensively, but Arsenal to me have better players and more talent.

That doesnt mean automatically they will finish above Pool, but I wont get to high on Pools good start and Arsenals bad one just yet. Long way to go.

Thats your opinion and I respect that. I'm not going to do some useless player by player chart because I hate those.

I think what people fail to see is it's going to take a lot of time to get the enviornment at Arsenal to the level it is at Liverpool right now. If Arsenal lose a game it's the end of the world kind of similar to when Hogdson was at Liverpool last year, that takes a big toll on players. IF Liverpool lose a game this year it's an annoyance but it's back to work and everyone is confident in the plan and system. Everyone is happy with the coach and the players are all playing at a very high level. Arsenal's players are playing no where near there best individually or collectivley and who knows when that changes.

So just judging talent is not the only thing, not to mention the season has already started and there putting themselves in a hole while they have to integrate new players as well and Van Persie isn't even injured yet.

I will also add that I do disagree with you that I think Liverpool has better players and also one of the top 10 players in the world who is a total superstar and can win games by himself. Not to mention Arsenal have the worst medical staff in all of sports.

To sum this up if you think Arsenal have better players that's your opinion and I respect it, but they are lacking in so many other areas that the players are not even the main issue right now.

Certaintly agree with your 1st paragraph there, I can "feel" that also.

As for the players, I dispise those charts too so I wont do it either. I just feel Verm is the best defender of both sets of players, I feel Whilshere is the best midfielder of both sets of players and I feel RVP and Saurez are pretty close. Then I personally think the likes of Sagna, Song, Gervinho are better then the Liverpool counterparts. But this is also debatable and I will accept not everyone will see it that way.

Agree about the injuries and indeed the other issues such as overall tactical plan, confidence, momentuum, the pressure of a loss and probably other factors I cant think of right now edge in the favour of Pool at the moment. For me, thats at the moment.

I am not really sold either way, I am not going to bet my life on Arsenal finishing 4th, but right now thats my feeling.

What areas are we lacking in?

Gervinho's pretty much already gelled with the team, Arteta knows EPL football like the back of his hand and Mertesacker will form a symbiotic relationship with the back three in no time; they'll offer the pace he lacks while he'll offer the reliability in the air and the strength they need

The Franchise wrote:
Certaintly agree with your 1st paragraph there, I can "feel" that also.

As for the players, I dispise those charts too so I wont do it either. I just feel Verm is the best defender of both sets of players, I feel Whilshere is the best midfielder of both sets of players and I feel RVP and Saurez are pretty close. Then I personally think the likes of Sagna, Song, Gervinho are better then the Liverpool counterparts. But this is also debatable and I will accept not everyone will see it that way.

Agree about the injuries and indeed the other issues such as overall tactical plan, confidence, momentuum, the pressure of a loss and probably other factors I cant think of right now edge in the favour of Pool at the moment. For me, thats at the moment.

I am not really sold either way, I am not going to bet my life on Arsenal finishing 4th, but right now thats my feeling.

Wilshere better than Gerrard? ARe u just trying to create pointless argument or just being ignorant?Jeez people do talk some absolute trash here.

Arsenal have won 2 of their last 20 games since Carling Cup loss whereas our form has only been bettered by United in that period.So i dont see any reason why we wont finish ahead of Arsenal.I am pretty sure Arsenal fans will the same confident way too after the signings they made.

BeautifulGame wrote:

The Franchise wrote:
Certaintly agree with your 1st paragraph there, I can "feel" that also.

As for the players, I dispise those charts too so I wont do it either. I just feel Verm is the best defender of both sets of players, I feel Whilshere is the best midfielder of both sets of players and I feel RVP and Saurez are pretty close. Then I personally think the likes of Sagna, Song, Gervinho are better then the Liverpool counterparts. But this is also debatable and I will accept not everyone will see it that way.

Agree about the injuries and indeed the other issues such as overall tactical plan, confidence, momentuum, the pressure of a loss and probably other factors I cant think of right now edge in the favour of Pool at the moment. For me, thats at the moment.

I am not really sold either way, I am not going to bet my life on Arsenal finishing 4th, but right now thats my feeling.

Wilshere better than Gerrard? ARe u just trying to create pointless argument or just being ignorant?Jeez people do talk some absolute trash here.

Dude, its my opinion. Do you think by reading my post I have the intention of starting an arguement with someone? But if you want one and feel froggy, go ahead and leap.

This isnt 2 seasons ago pal, Gerrard has been badely injured and well off his game almost every time I have seen him.

Right now, Jack is a better player then him untill Gerrard comes back and proves otherwise.

Lex wrote:What areas are we lacking in?

Gervinho's pretty much already gelled with the team, Arteta knows EPL football like the back of his hand and Mertesacker will form a symbiotic relationship with the back three in no time; they'll offer the pace he lacks while he'll offer the reliability in the air and the strength they need

Why would you assume all your purchases will just fit in seamlessly in that disaster of an enviornment? Please don't argue the word disaster, because it is a disaster there right now. There are growing pains for most players when they switch leagues or join a new team and it's not like you went out and bought world class players that dominate in whatever games they play in.

Gervinho- Yes he gelled with the team, also got slapped with a red card his first EPL game and banned for 3 games, that's almost a tenth of the season, and a more savy EPL player used to Barton's antics may have avoided the situation, he is still learning the league. Like when Masch got to Barca he was stunned at some of the ticky-tak fouls the La Liga refs called.

Same thing for Jenkinson Red card in his first couple games. These are growing pains. 3 red cards in three games screams players are not used to playing with each other due to injuries, suspensions, new players/league, just overall issues.

Arteta is taking over for there captain and face of the franchise for the last 5 years and the pressure will be huge how many times have you seen a club fix that problem for 10 million dollars? Your competition Man City did it for 40 million dollars for a comparison that worked and Liverpool tried it for 35 million with Carroll and that failed, nothing is a sure thing, again why do you think it will work on a cut rate deal/player. You're not trading like for like, Fab is a much better player, Arteta may know the EPL but so did Carroll.

"Mertesacker will form a symbiotic relationship with the back three in no time" Come on man, maybe he will but don't you think thats pushing it just a little? Again, he is not a world class player and you can't expect someone you paid less then 10 mill for to switch leagues and automatically do what you just quoted. I mean do you really believe that? If you bought Vidic or Kompany or someone like that I would say sure that's possible but come on man.

The Franchise wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

The Franchise wrote:
Certaintly agree with your 1st paragraph there, I can "feel" that also.

As for the players, I dispise those charts too so I wont do it either. I just feel Verm is the best defender of both sets of players, I feel Whilshere is the best midfielder of both sets of players and I feel RVP and Saurez are pretty close. Then I personally think the likes of Sagna, Song, Gervinho are better then the Liverpool counterparts. But this is also debatable and I will accept not everyone will see it that way.

Agree about the injuries and indeed the other issues such as overall tactical plan, confidence, momentuum, the pressure of a loss and probably other factors I cant think of right now edge in the favour of Pool at the moment. For me, thats at the moment.

I am not really sold either way, I am not going to bet my life on Arsenal finishing 4th, but right now thats my feeling.

Wilshere better than Gerrard? ARe u just trying to create pointless argument or just being ignorant?Jeez people do talk some absolute trash here.

Dude, its my opinion. Do you think by reading my post I have the intention of starting an arguement with someone? But if you want one and feel froggy, go ahead and leap.

This isnt 2 seasons ago pal, Gerrard has been badely injured and well off his game almost every time I have seen him.

Right now, Jack is a better player then him untill Gerrard comes back and proves otherwise.

Then ur opinion is just nonsense and just being ignorant.Wilshere better than Gerrard because he was injured for half a season(still played 24 games) and yet Vermelon is best defender out of both sides despite being out for the whole season last year.I see some great logic here

Gerrard well off his game when fit.Seriously why talk about something u dont even know? He was one of the best players in both Manchester derbies best player against Chelsea away out of the big games itself last year itself.

BeautifulGame wrote:Arsenal have won 2 of their last 20 games since Carling Cup loss whereas our form has only been bettered by United in that period.So i dont see any reason why we wont finish ahead of Arsenal.I am pretty sure Arsenal fans will the same confident way too after the signings they made.

OH MY FREAKING GOD. I didn't know that stat, that's terrible. If I knew that stat it would have saved me a lot of typing time. I don't even know what to say, did you Arsenal fans who are having a disagreement with me know this? How can you argue against Liverpool if you knew this? WOW, JUST WOW. I'm at a loss for words, I mean I knew it was bad but come on guy's if any other team were performing like that theres no way you would tip them to finish top 4 in the hardest league in the world. Take the Arsenal glasses off and live in the real world.

BeautifulGame wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

The Franchise wrote:
Certaintly agree with your 1st paragraph there, I can "feel" that also.

As for the players, I dispise those charts too so I wont do it either. I just feel Verm is the best defender of both sets of players, I feel Whilshere is the best midfielder of both sets of players and I feel RVP and Saurez are pretty close. Then I personally think the likes of Sagna, Song, Gervinho are better then the Liverpool counterparts. But this is also debatable and I will accept not everyone will see it that way.

Agree about the injuries and indeed the other issues such as overall tactical plan, confidence, momentuum, the pressure of a loss and probably other factors I cant think of right now edge in the favour of Pool at the moment. For me, thats at the moment.

I am not really sold either way, I am not going to bet my life on Arsenal finishing 4th, but right now thats my feeling.

Wilshere better than Gerrard? ARe u just trying to create pointless argument or just being ignorant?Jeez people do talk some absolute trash here.

Dude, its my opinion. Do you think by reading my post I have the intention of starting an arguement with someone? But if you want one and feel froggy, go ahead and leap.

This isnt 2 seasons ago pal, Gerrard has been badely injured and well off his game almost every time I have seen him.

Right now, Jack is a better player then him untill Gerrard comes back and proves otherwise.

Then ur opinion is just nonsense and just being ignorant.Wilshere better than Gerrard because he was injured for half a season(still played 24 games) and yet Vermelon is best defender out of both sides despite being out for the whole season last year.I see some great logic here

Gerrard well off his game when fit.Seriously why talk about something u dont even know? He was one of the best players in both Manchester derbies best player against Chelsea away out of the big games itself last year itself.

Gerrard was not only injured though was he, when he played he was a shadow of himself. When was the last time he performed consistently well for a extended period of time? The answer is more then 2 seasons ago.

I am sorry, I dont know because what? I support Barca so apperently I never watch the PL..get off it. Gerrard playing well in 3 games (in your opinion) means he is back to his best? I could list Jacks performances which trump anything Gerrard did last season.

Why cant Verm be the best? Because he was injured for one season? All the years before (because he did exsist before coming to the PL right') and his first Arsenal season dont count? He has come back strong this season too...its not like he is finished...Gerrard might be.

And anyway, who is his competition? Carrager? Clearly declining and turns slower then milk.....Agger who is more injury prone then anyone?

Right now, Verm and Jack are better then anyone else in either team.

The Franchise wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

The Franchise wrote:
Certaintly agree with your 1st paragraph there, I can "feel" that also.

As for the players, I dispise those charts too so I wont do it either. I just feel Verm is the best defender of both sets of players, I feel Whilshere is the best midfielder of both sets of players and I feel RVP and Saurez are pretty close. Then I personally think the likes of Sagna, Song, Gervinho are better then the Liverpool counterparts. But this is also debatable and I will accept not everyone will see it that way.

Agree about the injuries and indeed the other issues such as overall tactical plan, confidence, momentuum, the pressure of a loss and probably other factors I cant think of right now edge in the favour of Pool at the moment. For me, thats at the moment.

I am not really sold either way, I am not going to bet my life on Arsenal finishing 4th, but right now thats my feeling.

Wilshere better than Gerrard? ARe u just trying to create pointless argument or just being ignorant?Jeez people do talk some absolute trash here.

Dude, its my opinion. Do you think by reading my post I have the intention of starting an arguement with someone? But if you want one and feel froggy, go ahead and leap.

This isnt 2 seasons ago pal, Gerrard has been badely injured and well off his game almost every time I have seen him.

Right now, Jack is a better player then him untill Gerrard comes back and proves otherwise.

Then ur opinion is just nonsense and just being ignorant.Wilshere better than Gerrard because he was injured for half a season(still played 24 games) and yet Vermelon is best defender out of both sides despite being out for the whole season last year.I see some great logic here

Gerrard well off his game when fit.Seriously why talk about something u dont even know? He was one of the best players in both Manchester derbies best player against Chelsea away out of the big games itself last year itself.

Gerrard was not only injured though was he, when he played he was a shadow of himself. When was the last time he performed consistently well for a extended period of time? The answer is more then 2 seasons ago.

I am sorry, I dont know because what? I support Barca so apperently I never watch the PL..get off it. Gerrard playing well in 3 games (in your opinion) means he is back to his best? I could list Jacks performances which trump anything Gerrard did last season.

Why cant Verm be the best? Because he was injured for one season? All the years before (because he did exsist before coming to the PL right') and his first Arsenal season dont count? He has come back strong this season too...its not like he is finished...Gerrard might be.

And anyway, who is his competition? Carrager? Clearly declining and turns slower then milk.....Agger who is more injury prone then anyone?

Right now, Verm and Jack are better then anyone else in either team.

I know I'm going to get killed for saying this and I don't want to jump in your guys' argument but I have to say it. Over last year and this year Charlie Adam has been a better EPL player then Wilshire. Wilshire's hype has gotten totally out of control and IMO in the last 2 years Charlie Adam has done more to help his team win then Jack Wilshire. Wilshire may turn out to be a better player but at the moment Adam performs better in more areas of the game. Jack Wilshire can't even shoot a football.

I honestly see Wilshire as a better SM than a CM/AM. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think his Dribbling is better than his Passing.

Two years ago, Charlie Adam wasn't even in the PL.....

I said "last year and this year" and then after that I referenced "2 years" because I didn't want to keep saying "last year and this year". Fair enough?

El_Gunner wrote:

english_jewel wrote:Doubt they'll finish in the Top 4. Really depends on Liverpool.

how ironic, coz I actually think we have the balance in our squad to challenge Chelsea for 3rd place.

You're going to be challenging for fourth with Liverpool.

Better yet first get out of the relegation zone and done we'll talk about what's going on at the top.

The Franchise wrote:
Gerrard was not only injured though was he, when he played he was a shadow of himself. When was the last time he performed consistently well for a extended period of time? The answer is more then 2 seasons ago.

I am sorry, I dont know because what? I support Barca so apperently I never watch the PL..get off it. Gerrard playing well in 3 games (in your opinion) means he is back to his best? I could list Jacks performances which trump anything Gerrard did last season.

Why cant Verm be the best? Because he was injured for one season? All the years before (because he did exsist before coming to the PL right') and his first Arsenal season dont count? He has come back strong this season too...its not like he is finished...Gerrard might be.

And anyway, who is his competition? Carrager? Clearly declining and turns slower then milk.....Agger who is more injury prone then anyone?

Right now, Verm and Jack are better then anyone else in either team.

I listed those 3 games because as non Liverpool fan u are more likely to have watched those games.Ofcourse i could have listed his performance against Sunderland or Wigan or his 2nd half performance vs Napoli where he came on as sub.I could go on but it would would have been pointless as most non-PL wouldnt have watched them.

So injury proneness decides who is better no i see then Kuyt is far superior to Van Persie then.And Agger isnt more injury prone than anyone.For me who plays 20 games is less injury prone than missing whole season.Ofcourse Vermelan is better than Agger after all he is the one who played those CL QFs, semis and finals and performed exceptionally well.Isnt he?

For a fact even when we had our worst season in 2009-10 we still had conceded less goals than Arsenal and has better defensive record.And last season utter Dalglish we conceded far less goals than Arsenal under the same period.Of course Carra must be past his best then.

Oh i am sure u will keep moving goal posts.

Two years ago Wilshere was playing for Arsenal reserves Vermalen in dutch league.

Uh and?

You all should make your assessment of Arsenal after all our players come back. Judging our future based on the first 3 matches is bit of a knee jerk. We have lost 2 of our starting 11, lost 8 players to injuries and suspension. The Newcastle game, we should have won, and we held our own against Liverpool up until the redcard. For the United match, we were outclassed, baring in mind we were using some players from our 3rd tier team.

Situation isnt as bad as its made out to be.

BeautifulGame wrote:

The Franchise wrote:
Gerrard was not only injured though was he, when he played he was a shadow of himself. When was the last time he performed consistently well for a extended period of time? The answer is more then 2 seasons ago.

I am sorry, I dont know because what? I support Barca so apperently I never watch the PL..get off it. Gerrard playing well in 3 games (in your opinion) means he is back to his best? I could list Jacks performances which trump anything Gerrard did last season.

Why cant Verm be the best? Because he was injured for one season? All the years before (because he did exsist before coming to the PL right') and his first Arsenal season dont count? He has come back strong this season too...its not like he is finished...Gerrard might be.

And anyway, who is his competition? Carrager? Clearly declining and turns slower then milk.....Agger who is more injury prone then anyone?

Right now, Verm and Jack are better then anyone else in either team.

I listed those 3 games because as non Liverpool fan u are more likely to have watched those games.Ofcourse i could have listed his performance against Sunderland or Wigan or his 2nd half performance vs Napoli where he came on as sub.I could go on but it would would have been pointless as most non-PL wouldnt have watched them.

So injury proneness decides who is better no i see then Kuyt is far superior to Van Persie then.And Agger isnt more injury prone than anyone.For me who plays 20 games is less injury prone than missing whole season.Ofcourse Vermelan is better than Agger after all he is the one who played those CL QFs, semis and finals and performed exceptionally well.Isnt he?

For a fact even when we had our worst season in 2009-10 we still had conceded less goals than Arsenal and has better defensive record.And last season utter Dalglish we conceded far less goals than Arsenal under the same period.Of course Carra must be past his best then.

Oh i am sure u will keep moving goal posts.

Sorry, but no. Last season, there is no debate, Jack was better then Gerrard in my opinion last season. Why, because Gerrard missed alot of games and then on his return didnt play well...again, in my opinion. Because of what I saw from Gerrard, I believe he is on the downside of his career and form here on out Jack will be the better player. You can argue about it untill the cows come home, but I watched the games and formed an opinion. You cannot change it.

I am sorry, where did I say injury proneness is the method I am judging players? Why dont you reply about their actual abilities? I said, Verm is better then Carra because of the latter decline and lack of speed. Agger barely plays and when he does, as much as I like him, he isnt quite Verm level. I guess because Agger played in all those games those years ago, he is automatically better...lets not talk about their actual abilities, but not, games they played in 2 seasons ago and more.

Right now, those two are better. I repeat, RIGHT NOW.

Oh but your talking about right now and how you had a better defensive record then Arsenal. Well them, team stats prove individual x is better then inidivudal Y...well done there.

Carra and Agger are both better then Verm because their TEAM let in less goals...let ignore shall we defending and stopping goals is a TEAM issue, not an individual defenders one. Good lord.