How is Arsenal looking compared

BeautifulGame wrote:

The Franchise wrote:
Gerrard was not only injured though was he, when he played he was a shadow of himself. When was the last time he performed consistently well for a extended period of time? The answer is more then 2 seasons ago.

I am sorry, I dont know because what? I support Barca so apperently I never watch the PL..get off it. Gerrard playing well in 3 games (in your opinion) means he is back to his best? I could list Jacks performances which trump anything Gerrard did last season.

Why cant Verm be the best? Because he was injured for one season? All the years before (because he did exsist before coming to the PL right') and his first Arsenal season dont count? He has come back strong this season too...its not like he is finished...Gerrard might be.

And anyway, who is his competition? Carrager? Clearly declining and turns slower then milk.....Agger who is more injury prone then anyone?

Right now, Verm and Jack are better then anyone else in either team.

I listed those 3 games because as non Liverpool fan u are more likely to have watched those games.Ofcourse i could have listed his performance against Sunderland or Wigan or his 2nd half performance vs Napoli where he came on as sub.I could go on but it would would have been pointless as most non-PL wouldnt have watched them.

So injury proneness decides who is better no i see then Kuyt is far superior to Van Persie then.And Agger isnt more injury prone than anyone.For me who plays 20 games is less injury prone than missing whole season.Ofcourse Vermelan is better than Agger after all he is the one who played those CL QFs, semis and finals and performed exceptionally well.Isnt he?

For a fact even when we had our worst season in 2009-10 we still had conceded less goals than Arsenal and has better defensive record.And last season utter Dalglish we conceded far less goals than Arsenal under the same period.Of course Carra must be past his best then.

Oh i am sure u will keep moving goal posts.

dnmac4 wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

The Franchise wrote:
Certaintly agree with your 1st paragraph there, I can "feel" that also.

As for the players, I dispise those charts too so I wont do it either. I just feel Verm is the best defender of both sets of players, I feel Whilshere is the best midfielder of both sets of players and I feel RVP and Saurez are pretty close. Then I personally think the likes of Sagna, Song, Gervinho are better then the Liverpool counterparts. But this is also debatable and I will accept not everyone will see it that way.

Agree about the injuries and indeed the other issues such as overall tactical plan, confidence, momentuum, the pressure of a loss and probably other factors I cant think of right now edge in the favour of Pool at the moment. For me, thats at the moment.

I am not really sold either way, I am not going to bet my life on Arsenal finishing 4th, but right now thats my feeling.

Wilshere better than Gerrard? ARe u just trying to create pointless argument or just being ignorant?Jeez people do talk some absolute trash here.

Dude, its my opinion. Do you think by reading my post I have the intention of starting an arguement with someone? But if you want one and feel froggy, go ahead and leap.

This isnt 2 seasons ago pal, Gerrard has been badely injured and well off his game almost every time I have seen him.

Right now, Jack is a better player then him untill Gerrard comes back and proves otherwise.

Then ur opinion is just nonsense and just being ignorant.Wilshere better than Gerrard because he was injured for half a season(still played 24 games) and yet Vermelon is best defender out of both sides despite being out for the whole season last year.I see some great logic here

Gerrard well off his game when fit.Seriously why talk about something u dont even know? He was one of the best players in both Manchester derbies best player against Chelsea away out of the big games itself last year itself.

Gerrard was not only injured though was he, when he played he was a shadow of himself. When was the last time he performed consistently well for a extended period of time? The answer is more then 2 seasons ago.

I am sorry, I dont know because what? I support Barca so apperently I never watch the PL..get off it. Gerrard playing well in 3 games (in your opinion) means he is back to his best? I could list Jacks performances which trump anything Gerrard did last season.

Why cant Verm be the best? Because he was injured for one season? All the years before (because he did exsist before coming to the PL right') and his first Arsenal season dont count? He has come back strong this season too...its not like he is finished...Gerrard might be.

And anyway, who is his competition? Carrager? Clearly declining and turns slower then milk.....Agger who is more injury prone then anyone?

Right now, Verm and Jack are better then anyone else in either team.

I know I'm going to get killed for saying this and I don't want to jump in your guys' argument but I have to say it. Over last year and this year Charlie Adam has been a better EPL player then Wilshire. Wilshire's hype has gotten totally out of control and IMO in the last 2 years Charlie Adam has done more to help his team win then Jack Wilshire. Wilshire may turn out to be a better player but at the moment Adam performs better in more areas of the game. Jack Wilshire can't even shoot a football.

The Franchise wrote:

Sorry, but no. Last season, there is no debate, Jack was better then Gerrard in my opinion last season. Why, because Gerrard missed alot of games and then on his return didnt play well...again, in my opinion. Because of what I saw from Gerrard, I believe he is on the downside of his career and form here on out Jack will be the better player. You can argue about it untill the cows come home, but I watched the games and formed an opinion. You cannot change it.

I am sorry, where did I say injury proneness is the method I am judging players? Why dont you reply about their actual abilities? I said, Verm is better then Carra because of the latter decline and lack of speed. Agger barely plays and when he does, as much as I like him, he isnt quite Verm level. I guess because Agger played in all those games those years ago, he is automatically better...lets not talk about their actual abilities, but not, games they played in 2 seasons ago and more.

Right now, those two are better. I repeat, RIGHT NOW.

Oh but your talking about right now and how you had a better defensive record then Arsenal. Well them, team stats prove individual x is better then inidivudal Y...well done there.

Carra and Agger are both better then Verm because their TEAM let in less goals...let ignore shall we defending and stopping goals is a TEAM issue, not an individual defenders one. Good lord.

The Franchise wrote:

dnmac4 wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

The Franchise wrote:
Certaintly agree with your 1st paragraph there, I can "feel" that also.

As for the players, I dispise those charts too so I wont do it either. I just feel Verm is the best defender of both sets of players, I feel Whilshere is the best midfielder of both sets of players and I feel RVP and Saurez are pretty close. Then I personally think the likes of Sagna, Song, Gervinho are better then the Liverpool counterparts. But this is also debatable and I will accept not everyone will see it that way.

Agree about the injuries and indeed the other issues such as overall tactical plan, confidence, momentuum, the pressure of a loss and probably other factors I cant think of right now edge in the favour of Pool at the moment. For me, thats at the moment.

I am not really sold either way, I am not going to bet my life on Arsenal finishing 4th, but right now thats my feeling.

Wilshere better than Gerrard? ARe u just trying to create pointless argument or just being ignorant?Jeez people do talk some absolute trash here.

Dude, its my opinion. Do you think by reading my post I have the intention of starting an arguement with someone? But if you want one and feel froggy, go ahead and leap.

This isnt 2 seasons ago pal, Gerrard has been badely injured and well off his game almost every time I have seen him.

Right now, Jack is a better player then him untill Gerrard comes back and proves otherwise.

Then ur opinion is just nonsense and just being ignorant.Wilshere better than Gerrard because he was injured for half a season(still played 24 games) and yet Vermelon is best defender out of both sides despite being out for the whole season last year.I see some great logic here

Gerrard well off his game when fit.Seriously why talk about something u dont even know? He was one of the best players in both Manchester derbies best player against Chelsea away out of the big games itself last year itself.

Gerrard was not only injured though was he, when he played he was a shadow of himself. When was the last time he performed consistently well for a extended period of time? The answer is more then 2 seasons ago.

I am sorry, I dont know because what? I support Barca so apperently I never watch the PL..get off it. Gerrard playing well in 3 games (in your opinion) means he is back to his best? I could list Jacks performances which trump anything Gerrard did last season.

Why cant Verm be the best? Because he was injured for one season? All the years before (because he did exsist before coming to the PL right') and his first Arsenal season dont count? He has come back strong this season too...its not like he is finished...Gerrard might be.

And anyway, who is his competition? Carrager? Clearly declining and turns slower then milk.....Agger who is more injury prone then anyone?

Right now, Verm and Jack are better then anyone else in either team.

I know I'm going to get killed for saying this and I don't want to jump in your guys' argument but I have to say it. Over last year and this year Charlie Adam has been a better EPL player then Wilshire. Wilshire's hype has gotten totally out of control and IMO in the last 2 years Charlie Adam has done more to help his team win then Jack Wilshire. Wilshire may turn out to be a better player but at the moment Adam performs better in more areas of the game. Jack Wilshire can't even shoot a football.

Charlie Adam...

Other then long pass and shoot, there is nothing Adam is better at. Adam is also better at those two things then Iniesta, yet I dont think he is better.

Shooting isnt important for a centermidfielder, dont see why its should be such an important fact.

Adam was more important to Blackpool then alot of player for other teams, doesnt make him better. It means he has worse players around him and they need him more.

Lord Spencer wrote:@BG;

It is not really a stretch to say Wilshire is CURRENTLY better than Gerrard CURRENTLY. I like Gerrard as a player, and enjoyed his best days. Days that are gone unfortunately.

Fact is, Gerrard did not have a consistent season for two years. He was absent most of last year. And injury changes a player. Happened to Kaka and there is no reason in earth that makes Gerrard immune to the fact.

It is not like the Franchise said Wilshire runs all over Gerrard. And you need to give credit where its due. Jack was really good last season. Gerrard is a class act without a doubt, but him being Pool's living legend does not automatically makes him the better player.

Also, you cannot really deny that Gerrard is in the last leg of his career. The guy had his share of injuries, and probably has two seasons in him. It is not like Gerrard is a midfielder in the mold of Pirlo where you don't need a lot of pace.

As for the defense, I believe rating defenders against each other is conceptually wrong. Defense is a team work, and hence you need to compare the pairs and not the players. Tiago Silva is an excellent defender but can do nothing to save Milan if he is pairing Bonera.

I think the Pool pair edge the Arsenal pair. In fact, their whole defensive plan edges last year's Arsenal defensive plan.

dnmac4 wrote:Mata can play all over the midfield but to use him as someone to run the play through kind of limits all of his skills. Mata is better further up the field and in the final third.

I was very down on Chelsea at the start of the season, but I really like ALL of there purchases in this window. I think they really added some flair and quick strike ability. Over the last year or so they had become so deliberate which was fine when Drogba was terrorizing the final third and Lampard was a top 3 midfielder in the EPL but thats not the case anymore so they had to make moves.

IMO, the pairing of Suarez and Meireles is what turned Liverpool around in the second half of last year and I see the same thing happening with Meireles and Mata, they are a very similar partnership. The parallels don't stop there though, when Liverpool takes out Carroll there attack flows much better when they had Meireles and Chelsea need to do the same with Torres. They either need to bench him or stop having him wreck the creative play near the box by standing around with his thumb up his butt, Spain fans know what I mean because he does the exact same thing for them and the minute they take him out, the game flows much better for them. If AVB can't figure out the Drogba/Torres situation then Chelsea will finish behind Liverpool, if he does then vice versa.

As for the top 4, It's going to be the same 4 teams for the next 5 years or so the order just might change around.

1) Man United- I am stunned at how SAF has remade this team if you think about the team that played Barca just a couple months ago to now it's incredible, they look like a totally different team and as a Barca fan I would be scared to play them in any kind of elimination game.

2) Man City- The more this group plays with each other the better they will get and that's trouble for the EPL. By the time Xmas roles around they are going to be a well oiled machine. With there mix of attacker's, technical players and brut strength I don't know another team in the world that can match that. SAF is what puts Man U ahead of them, but this may be the last year thats a given. BTW, I think they are the Third best team in the world behind Barca and Man U.

3) Chelsea- For the reasons stated above, and I really like what AVB is doing. It may take a while to make this team into his image, but I think he is too smart of a coach to not figure out what to do with Drogba/Torres. Putting Chelsea third is not a knock on them as I think if they played in Italy they would win that league, they are just up against two very strong teams.

4) Liverpool- Similar to what SAF did in a short amount of time the same can be said for Dalglish, they look like a new team. HE cut the cancer out of the team and he has a legit future Balon D'or candidate in Suarez.. He bought the players he wanted and they look to fit his system like a glove, at the time it looked as if he payed a little to much but he identified what he wanted and went out and took it, Arsenal could learn from that and because of that reason Arsenal will be left behind. It will be a war between Liverpool and Chelsea for the third slot and will probably come down to there head to head battles.

Arsenal is a distant 5th place, and I really think if results go against them the team could quit on Wenger. They bought some token defenders to make it look like they really want to sure there back line up but none of there purchases really wow me at all. It looked more like a desperate attempt to shut the fans and media up and all it did was add depth to there defense but didn't improve it much.

To compliment Arsenal, I think Wenger put himself in such a bad bargaining position by selling Fab and Nasri at the end of the window and having 3 days to make over a team I think he did all he could do. Spending 30-40 mill on a player he didn't want in the first place would accomplish nothing and teams knew they could dictate the prices and terms of any sale to Arsenal in the last 3 days and thats not how you do business. I struggle to see how many players on Arsenal's team would make it into any of the top 3 teams in the EPL, I think dark days are ahead for them.

ali8775 wrote:I swear to God, I was reading these posts, and then dnmac said Adam > Wilshere, and I just...had to facepalm. Then he said that we can't replace an important player with 10 million and remembered Vermaelen & Henry

BeautifulGame wrote:

ali8775 wrote:I swear to God, I was reading these posts, and then dnmac said Adam > Wilshere, and I just...had to facepalm. Then he said that we can't replace an important player with 10 million and remembered Vermaelen & Henry

I think what i meant is at the moment.Adam is at the peak of his career and playing really well whereas Wilshere is a kid just 19 year old with a lot of time to develop.Ofcourse Adam will probably never reach the level Wilshere can in future but the moment Adam can have the same or more influence Wilshere can have on the game.And i dont see anything wrong with it either tbh.Adam too had a very good season last year and was picked for PL XI despite playing for a relegated team.And has started this season very strongly too.

ali8775 wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

ali8775 wrote:I swear to God, I was reading these posts, and then dnmac said Adam > Wilshere, and I just...had to facepalm. Then he said that we can't replace an important player with 10 million and remembered Vermaelen & Henry

I think what i meant is at the moment.Adam is at the peak of his career and playing really well whereas Wilshere is a kid just 19 year old with a lot of time to develop.Ofcourse Adam will probably never reach the level Wilshere can in future but the moment Adam can have the same or more influence Wilshere can have on the game.And i dont see anything wrong with it either tbh.Adam too had a very good season last year and was picked for PL XI despite playing for a relegated team.And has started this season very strongly too.

but Adam fell off second half of the season while Wilshere kept going strong, Wilshere atm is better imo

highburied wrote:
Im confident we will reach the final in Champions League and become champions in EPL.

ynwa wrote:
I mean, Mata's up there, the other's the most overrated player I've seen on this forum. And Lamps on his day too. haha. I'd just like to say look at Torres scoring ratio with LFC. More than half his goals came from Gerrard ffs. But I mean, sure. You guys are more creative. I mean, you're Chelsea Football Club. Infact, I'm pretty sure Meireles will soon be one of the most creative players in the world.

english_jewel wrote:

ynwa wrote:
I mean, Mata's up there, the other's the most overrated player I've seen on this forum. And Lamps on his day too. haha. I'd just like to say look at Torres scoring ratio with LFC. More than half his goals came from Gerrard ffs. But I mean, sure. You guys are more creative. I mean, you're Chelsea Football Club. Infact, I'm pretty sure Meireles will soon be one of the most creative players in the world.

Lampard on full form is over-rated? If anything he's under-rated. That too by a lot. And for your information Mata and Sturridge has not played with Torres yet so I can't see how you can compare Gerrard's contribution to Torres to Sturridge's and Mata's. And anyways, at Chelsea we play a different system from the system Liverpool played so you can't use that to determine if Mata and Sturridge are more creative than Gerrard.

BeautifulGame wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Sorry, but no. Last season, there is no debate, Jack was better then Gerrard in my opinion last season. Why, because Gerrard missed alot of games and then on his return didnt play well...again, in my opinion. Because of what I saw from Gerrard, I believe he is on the downside of his career and form here on out Jack will be the better player. You can argue about it untill the cows come home, but I watched the games and formed an opinion. You cannot change it.

I am sorry, where did I say injury proneness is the method I am judging players? Why dont you reply about their actual abilities? I said, Verm is better then Carra because of the latter decline and lack of speed. Agger barely plays and when he does, as much as I like him, he isnt quite Verm level. I guess because Agger played in all those games those years ago, he is automatically better...lets not talk about their actual abilities, but not, games they played in 2 seasons ago and more.

Right now, those two are better. I repeat, RIGHT NOW.

Oh but your talking about right now and how you had a better defensive record then Arsenal. Well them, team stats prove individual x is better then inidivudal Y...well done there.

Carra and Agger are both better then Verm because their TEAM let in less goals...let ignore shall we defending and stopping goals is a TEAM issue, not an individual defenders one. Good lord.

Gerrard didnt play well when on his return.I already explained Gerrard was very good for us whenever he played for us last season.Gerrard didnt play well maybe ur opinion but very ill informed opinion.

Ofcourse proven in dutch league is better than being proven in CL against big teams.SMH

What that defensive record shows is Carra turns faster than ur milk and still a very good defender.And where did i say Carrra is better than because of those stats.Dont make up stuff to suit ur argument.

dnmac4 wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

dnmac4 wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

The Franchise wrote:
Certaintly agree with your 1st paragraph there, I can "feel" that also.

As for the players, I dispise those charts too so I wont do it either. I just feel Verm is the best defender of both sets of players, I feel Whilshere is the best midfielder of both sets of players and I feel RVP and Saurez are pretty close. Then I personally think the likes of Sagna, Song, Gervinho are better then the Liverpool counterparts. But this is also debatable and I will accept not everyone will see it that way.

Agree about the injuries and indeed the other issues such as overall tactical plan, confidence, momentuum, the pressure of a loss and probably other factors I cant think of right now edge in the favour of Pool at the moment. For me, thats at the moment.

I am not really sold either way, I am not going to bet my life on Arsenal finishing 4th, but right now thats my feeling.

Wilshere better than Gerrard? ARe u just trying to create pointless argument or just being ignorant?Jeez people do talk some absolute trash here.

Dude, its my opinion. Do you think by reading my post I have the intention of starting an arguement with someone? But if you want one and feel froggy, go ahead and leap.

This isnt 2 seasons ago pal, Gerrard has been badely injured and well off his game almost every time I have seen him.

Right now, Jack is a better player then him untill Gerrard comes back and proves otherwise.

Then ur opinion is just nonsense and just being ignorant.Wilshere better than Gerrard because he was injured for half a season(still played 24 games) and yet Vermelon is best defender out of both sides despite being out for the whole season last year.I see some great logic here

Gerrard well off his game when fit.Seriously why talk about something u dont even know? He was one of the best players in both Manchester derbies best player against Chelsea away out of the big games itself last year itself.

Gerrard was not only injured though was he, when he played he was a shadow of himself. When was the last time he performed consistently well for a extended period of time? The answer is more then 2 seasons ago.

I am sorry, I dont know because what? I support Barca so apperently I never watch the PL..get off it. Gerrard playing well in 3 games (in your opinion) means he is back to his best? I could list Jacks performances which trump anything Gerrard did last season.

Why cant Verm be the best? Because he was injured for one season? All the years before (because he did exsist before coming to the PL right') and his first Arsenal season dont count? He has come back strong this season too...its not like he is finished...Gerrard might be.

And anyway, who is his competition? Carrager? Clearly declining and turns slower then milk.....Agger who is more injury prone then anyone?

Right now, Verm and Jack are better then anyone else in either team.

I know I'm going to get killed for saying this and I don't want to jump in your guys' argument but I have to say it. Over last year and this year Charlie Adam has been a better EPL player then Wilshire. Wilshire's hype has gotten totally out of control and IMO in the last 2 years Charlie Adam has done more to help his team win then Jack Wilshire. Wilshire may turn out to be a better player but at the moment Adam performs better in more areas of the game. Jack Wilshire can't even shoot a football.

Charlie Adam...

Other then long pass and shoot, there is nothing Adam is better at. Adam is also better at those two things then Iniesta, yet I dont think he is better.

Shooting isnt important for a centermidfielder, dont see why its should be such an important fact.

Adam was more important to Blackpool then alot of player for other teams, doesnt make him better. It means he has worse players around him and they need him more.

Again we will both have our opinions and they won't change but for my center midfielder I want them to be able to make killer pass' that set up the play and the final ball (assist) to score the goals. I also want them to be able to dictate the pace of the game and shoot and score when the opportunity presents it's self. IMO Adam is better at all of these things , plus his corner kicks are awesome and he steps up and makes big plays when his team needs him. I know the last point comes with maturity but if we are talking about the present time I just don't know what Wilshire does better then Adam, I mean you say he's better at passing and shooting like it's nothing, those are pretty crucial for your central midfielder.

It's not just Blackpool Adam has walked right into Liverpool and is running the midfield with a goal and 3 assists already this year. I mean IMO it's not even close but again I think Wilshire is the most overhyped player in football.

You are right on Gerrard though he's been pretty rubbish for a little while now. Sorry Liverpool fans but it's true, if I'm going to kill Wilshire I've got to do the same to Gerrard. Also, I don't think Wilshire will ever be half the player Gerrard was.