Why is Messi considered a big game player compared to Ronaldo?

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Post by _SuperFloren_ Mon May 26, 2014 3:58 pm

Ronaldo haters, and some football gurus always say Ronaldo doesnt perform in big games compared to Messi who always does. Why people defends Messi in this?? In all his career Messi has never perform against well organised, physical and strong defensive teams. This year against Simeone's Atletico, 6 games without scoring. Against Chelsea in 7-8 games has never scored, against Inter in 2010 not a single shot on target, against Bayern dissapeared. Etc. However, if you think about a top european team of the last 10 years, Ronaldo has scored against everybody. Bayern, Borussia, Atletico, Barcelona, Milan, Juve, Man United, Man city, Inter. Messi is one-dimensional player. Just saying
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Post by Arquitecto Mon May 26, 2014 4:33 pm

_SuperFloren_ wrote:Ronaldo haters, and some football gurus always say Ronaldo doesnt perform in big games compared to Messi who always does. Why people defends Messi in this?? In all his career Messi has never perform against well organised, physical and strong defensive teams. This year against Simeone's Atletico, 6 games without scoring. Against Chelsea in 7-8 games has never scored, against Inter in 2010 not a single shot on target, against Bayern dissapeared. Etc. However, if you think about a top european team of the last 10 years, Ronaldo has scored against everybody. Bayern, Borussia, Atletico, Barcelona, Milan, Juve, Man United, Man city, Inter. Messi is one-dimensional player. Just saying

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Post by Hawky Mon May 26, 2014 5:37 pm

Scored in 2 CL finals (like Ronaldo) and in most of the Clasico's he's played in. Saying he doesn't perform in big games is a bit off.

I think Ronaldo got this label from how he performed before 2011-2012, when he didn't perform very well in Clasico's and seemed to fade away in certain important games (Bayern and Barca CL semi-finals, OL quarter-final etc.).
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Post by Valkyrja Mon May 26, 2014 5:40 pm

Ronaldo has been a big game player since January 2012. Is he a better player than Messi ? No. But Messi isn't better by much.
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Post by _SuperFloren_ Mon May 26, 2014 5:42 pm

Hawky wrote:Scored in 2 CL finals (like Ronaldo) and in most of the Clasico's he's played in. Saying he doesn't perform in big games is a bit off.

I think Ronaldo got this label from how he performed before 2011-2012, when he didn't perform very well in Clasico's and seemed to fade away in certain important games (Bayern and Barca CL semi-finals, OL quarter-final etc.).
Against who? Manchester United, a team which has been always a failure against spanish teams recently trying to play attack. I mean, all the teams who have as main aspect, a solid game, strong defensive sides, Messi always dissapears, and not only now, all his entire career. Ronaldo never did.
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Post by _SuperFloren_ Mon May 26, 2014 5:45 pm

[quote="Valkyrja"]Ronaldo has been a big game player since January 2012. Is he a better player than Messi ? No. But Messi isn't better


What? 2008 he scored in the champions league final. 2009 he put his team in the final, with an amazing winning goal against porto in quarters, and 2 goals in highbury in semifinals, he scored also against Mourinho's Inter in last 16 that season. 2010 he scored in extra time to give Real Madird copa del rey title against Pep' Barcelona. He is record breaker of consecutive scoring clasicos. He has scored in every single Real Madrid knockout in Champions League and Copa in his 5 years at the club, except Barcelona-Madrid CL semifinal in 2011.
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Post by Hawky Mon May 26, 2014 5:49 pm

Well, judging by your logic, Ronaldo also scored 2 goals in CL finals, but one was a penalty when it didn't really matter and one was a lucky header against a Chelsea side coached by freaking Avram Grant. I will stop here, as you are obviously trolling (you should check that warning level)  Very Happy .
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Post by jibers Mon May 26, 2014 8:57 pm

Hawky wrote:Well, judging by your logic, Ronaldo also scored 2 goals in CL finals, but one was a penalty when it didn't really matter and one was a lucky header against a Chelsea side coached by freaking Avram Grant. I will stop here, as you are obviously trolling (you should check that warning level)  Very Happy .

That's utter shite. Lucky header? Do you watch Ronaldo at all? What a load of shite. He absolutely terrorised Essein in the first half. And on that Chelsea team, what are you on about? They were the second best team in Europe and second best in the EPL and barely just below us. We had to take the EPL in the last days so you obviously don't know what you are on about.

@superfloren in that CL final, Ronaldo played well in the first half but was anonymous for the rest of the game and his lack of tracking back is what caused us so many problems. The game against porto you mentions, Ronaldo was at fault for not tracking the full back of porto and 2 of their goals came from him overlapping. Again he was a liability. Ronaldos level he has against the small teams dips very low when he faces big teams even when he scores. That season he scored a tap in against Arsenal but was in Clichys back pocket all game and did nothing. Against Chelsea he did not do much and Ashley cole pocketed him. Did nothing in the away game against Liverpool and scored a header against them in the home game while again being anonymous. Messi's level against big teams and small teams is far closer and is higher anyways than Ronaldos. Messi raped Arsenal twice, raped us twice, demolished Madrid so many times I can't count. And on Inter and Chelsea, almost every player struggles when faced against a compact defence. Ronaldo does zilch as well. The Inter he faced in 09 was not the same as the inter Messi faced in 10. Messi doesn't need to score to be influential which is the biggest difference.

If you really want to see the difference between them, go and watch the semis we played against Barca in 08 when Messi came back from injury and Ronaldo was the supposed best player in the world. Nethier scored over the 2 legs but the performances were telling.

Ronaldo moved to Madrid and flopped in his first 2 classicos. The season after he flopped in the supercup, doing nothing bar scoring some jammy goal while Messi again walked away the hero. Ronaldo did nothing in the manita. So he flopped in 5 straight classicos. Again when Messi doesn't score he creates danger. Ronaldo's contribution is minuscule when he doesn't score.

That's the short version. This has been done so many times so I cba to go into detail.
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Post by _SuperFloren_ Mon May 26, 2014 9:45 pm

^^^You look like a barca fan in some of your comments. One of the things I cant stand from them, its the fact that when they lose against somebody it looks like that teams was amazing in that moment, and few months before or later they were terrible. In 2009, United passed Mourinho's Inter with Ronaldo as a leader and they were terrible, in 2010, Messi dissapeared against them. Ronaldo scored against Chelsea in 2008 CL final, and Messi was terrible against Chelsea in 2009 in the so remembered Ovrebo day. Ronaldo scores twice against Bayern in 2012, and Barca was destroyed the year after that. Etc etc etc. You say its not only about scoring, and its ok, but its a fact Messi cant perform how he is supposed to be "incomparable" to others against defensive minded teams, and Ronaldo always finds a way to help. It is normal Messi destroying Real Madrid all those years when even 3rd division teams were able to do it, and Messi played with the best midfield of all times at his service. From now on, we will see if this Messi is that great. Now the team in ruins is Barcelona. And Ronaldo has a supporting cast level european champions. We will see if Messi can lead a rebuild like Ronaldo did in Madrid with all the pressure and criticism.
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Post by FootballSavant Mon May 26, 2014 9:53 pm

Huge Myth... Ronaldo just in this Final contributed to 3 Goals while at 50%  Laughing 

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Post by Hawky Tue May 27, 2014 8:58 pm

jibers, my sentence started with "judging by your logic". Don't feed the troll.
This thread is useless anyway, some people here are just pouring out their frustrations.
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Post by harhar11 Tue May 27, 2014 10:41 pm

Apart from scoring the equalizier against Atletico Madrid in the league, and his goals against Juve in the CL, most of his goals in the big games came when his teams were leading by quite alot.

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Post by sanchez04 Wed May 28, 2014 10:55 pm

I think Ronaldo's goals didnt affect the result of big games this season. Without his 17 goals in CL Madrid still would win CL. He scored when his team was leading with 2-3 goals

Messi affected the result of games way more. Just last season he scored first 2 goals vs parked bus Milan when there was no hope. And he participated in build up. Then the PSG game he changed the game. He destroyed Madrid with his through ball to neymar and changed the game. This is what i call performance

Scoring when it doesnt matter is not a performance. This is what actually ronaldo does. Comparing Ronaldo to Messi is just wrong. One is finisher another one is creator and finisher. Its like comparing Inzaghi to Baggio

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Post by titosantill Fri May 30, 2014 9:38 am

the concept of "big game" can be very subjective. for some people, it could mean scoring against a big team..problem with this is, a team may have a rich history but in a crisis situation at the moment, thus its difficult to consider this a "big game"...some could classify it as scoring against a team deeper into cup competition, but as said above, crisis and injuries could hamper such, thus it may or may not be a big game....both ron and messi have had there share of big game moments. But if one wants to seriously do some research on this, you would have to take into account Big Moments, rather than the subjective notion of "big games"....these moments could include, goals scored when the team was down, mainly the equalizing goal; goals scored to give the team the lead, and thus win the game (so if a player scores to give the team a 1 nil lead, but the team ends up losing 1-5, or 2-3, then it doesn't count); goals scored in over time/extra time to bring the team level; goals scored in extra/over time to win the game; goals scored in a final; goals scored in a final when the team is drawing or losing, provided the team doesn't end up losing that game. In collating the above stats, obviously games against what we consider small teams would also be taken into account, scoring the winner late on against a small team to earn your side three points isn't an easy task especially when the smaller team won't mind defending with their lives to hang on for a draw, sometimes this can be more difficult than going against a bigger team that may be naive enough to play open and risk being hit on the counter......but to eliminate bias, one can also tabulate results of winning goals or crucial away goals scored in the latter stages of the champions league...so if the player scores in the second in a 3-2 loss and that goal earned qualification via the away goals rule that will count. it is debatable whether if the crucial goal came in the first leg whether that should count since said player doesn't know the future and how impactfull that goal may have been.....goals are obviously not the only thing, the research can also use assists using the same criteria.....obviously if you make a pass for a player to shoot some crazy 33 yard shot i'm not sure that counts as an assist....but there you have it, use that as a criteria for your research and i think it will be the best solution to the question of the big game or big moment player, eliminating all bias....Hala Madrid, La Decima.
.....oh btw if someone actually carries out that research and it doesn't favor your favorite player between the two, please be a good sport and still post the results. it will make for a good read. And most importantly it has to be within the same timeline, so if you chose to start from a certain year, explain why you did so (i seriously doubt that anyone will do this assignment lol)
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Post by sanchez04 Fri May 30, 2014 11:48 am

I can list Messi BIG moments

CL 1/4 final 0-1 down vs Arsenal scores 4 winning goala
CL semifinal 0-0 vs R.madrid scores 2 winninf goals
CL 1/4 final 0-2 down vs Milan scores first 2 goals
CL Final 1-1 vs M.United scores 1 goal and makes it 2-1
CL Final 1-0 vs M.United scores 1 makes it 2-0
CL 1/4 final 0-0 vs PSG scores winning goal
CL semifinal 0-0 vs Chelsea assists for winning goal

Actually there was no Barca win in CL without Messi show

In other tournaments he always scored winning goals and assists vs Madrid.
23 goals+12 assists vs R.Madrid
21 goals+9 assists vs A.Madrid

its long list. He scored in all finals supercopa, copa del rey, club world cup, european super cup
endless list

Actually if you calculate everything Messi is probably best big game player in history. CR will not come close

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Post by Valkyrja Fri May 30, 2014 2:04 pm

sanchez04 wrote:I can list Messi BIG moments

CL 1/4 final 0-1 down vs Arsenal scores 4 winning goala
CL semifinal 0-0 vs R.madrid scores 2 winninf goals
CL 1/4 final 0-2 down vs Milan scores first 2 goals
CL Final 1-1 vs M.United scores 1 goal and makes it 2-1
CL Final 1-0 vs M.United scores 1 makes it 2-0
CL 1/4 final 0-0 vs PSG scores winning goal
CL semifinal 0-0 vs Chelsea assists for winning goal

Actually there was no Barca win in CL without Messi show

In other tournaments he always scored winning goals and assists vs Madrid.
23 goals+12 assists vs R.Madrid
21 goals+9 assists vs A.Madrid

its long list. He scored in all finals supercopa, copa del rey, club world cup, european super cup
endless list

Actually if you calculate everything Messi is probably best big game player in history. CR will not come close


that's the same as saying Ronaldo assisted Marcelo's goal man  Laughing 

btw, didn't Messi score only penalties against Milan ?

Not taking anything away from him, because he is better than Ronaldo, but not by that much.
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Post by Winter is Coming Fri May 30, 2014 2:59 pm

He scored 3 goals against Milan in group stages this season 1 PK 2 open play goals and last season he scored 2 in the 4-0 from open play.
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Post by sanchez04 Fri May 30, 2014 7:36 pm

Valkirja, no he didnt score any penalty in the games that i listed. He scored 2 open play goal vs Milan when Barca were 0-2 down and hopeless

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Post by Donuts Fri May 30, 2014 7:40 pm

they are both big game players whats the argument..
but you couldn't of posted this at a worst moment such as when Ronaldo didn't do anything and his highlight of the game is more or less his celebration and lack of one.
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Post by FennecFox7 Sat May 31, 2014 6:46 am

Hawky wrote:jibers, my sentence started with "judging by your logic". Don't feed the troll.
This thread is useless anyway, some people here are just pouring out their frustrations.


Don't feed the troll??

Posts like this make me want to vomit and put it all over you

I'm sick and tired of people who stray from the norm of GL being called "idiots, know nothing about football, and trolls". This forum has become a joke at times. you gotta feel bad for people like gil and valk
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Post by FennecFox7 Sat May 31, 2014 6:47 am

Donuts wrote:they are both big game players whats the argument..
but you couldn't of posted this at a worst moment such as when Ronaldo didn't do anything and his highlight of the game is more or less his celebration and lack of one.


Yes, ronaldo played with a torn hamstring and could barely run. It's his fault he didn't "play well" even though he teed up bale at least twice and should have had 2 assists. When messi had this same injury last season we gave him the benefit of the doubt even all he did is run into martinez and dante Laughing
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Post by harhar11 Sat May 31, 2014 12:27 pm

Giggity5313 wrote:
Donuts wrote:they are both big game players whats the argument..
but you couldn't of posted this at a worst moment such as when Ronaldo didn't do anything and his highlight of the game is more or less his celebration and lack of one.


Yes, ronaldo played with a torn hamstring and could barely run. It's his fault he didn't "play well" even though he teed up bale at least twice and should have had 2 assists. When messi had this same injury last season we gave him the benefit of the doubt even all he did is run into martinez and dante Laughing


Really? An injured Messi last seasin, was forced to come off the bench to almost single-handedly qualify Barça for the semi-final.

And don't act as if C.Ronaldo didn't have a bad game in the final..

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Post by FennecFox7 Sat May 31, 2014 5:35 pm

harhar11 wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:
Donuts wrote:they are both big game players whats the argument..
but you couldn't of posted this at a worst moment such as when Ronaldo didn't do anything and his highlight of the game is more or less his celebration and lack of one.


Yes, ronaldo played with a torn hamstring and could barely run. It's his fault he didn't "play well" even though he teed up bale at least twice and should have had 2 assists. When messi had this same injury last season we gave him the benefit of the doubt even all he did is run into martinez and dante Laughing


Really? An injured Messi last seasin, was forced to come off the bench to almost single-handedly qualify Barça for the semi-final.

And don't act as if C.Ronaldo didn't have a bad game in the final..


I am gonna act like he didn't a bad game CONSIDERING the circumstances. He tore his hamstring and played through it. benz was also playing through pain. both him and benz facilitated the play and kept possession instead... why do you think bale got thousands of chances???

and if your comparing how two players play though injury go pick up a kinesiology book instead of spouting bs

and please before you go on your 8 page post rants maybe you should try reading Laughing
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Post by sanchez04 Sat May 31, 2014 6:37 pm

He is right, fit Ronaldo destroyed A.Madrid twice and Barcelona in la liga this season. It was one man show. If he was fit he would do the same again

Why you dont list cr's big moments like i did so we can compare?

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Post by Donuts Sat May 31, 2014 7:16 pm

Giggity5313 wrote:
Donuts wrote:they are both big game players whats the argument..
but you couldn't of posted this at a worst moment such as when Ronaldo didn't do anything and his highlight of the game is more or less his celebration and lack of one.


Yes, ronaldo played with a torn hamstring and could barely run. It's his fault he didn't "play well" even though he teed up bale at least twice and should have had 2 assists. When messi had this same injury last season we gave him the benefit of the doubt even all he did is run into martinez and dante Laughing

what are you arguing about i just said they are both good big game players??
do you want a medal for him playing through an injury?
fact is he didn't play good in the final, the reason for that or excuses are irrelevant because no one is even talking about that.
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