Re: La Liga 2023/24

by halamadrid2 Mon Feb 26, 2024 1:25 pm

We've lost one game in the league all season (2 in all competitions). This is shaping up to be our best season since Mou's second season with over 90 points. All this without a recognised n9. We have been amazing, although alot of games have been tough to watch but with the amount of injuries we've had it's a wonder we have remained consistent throughout our injury ordeal

by futbol_bill Mon Feb 26, 2024 2:08 pm

Hala, after yesterday’s offensive showing, I think it is clear we need Bellingham back to make a deep run in CL.

by halamadrid2 Mon Feb 26, 2024 3:20 pm

Definitely, we are toothless without Bellingham/Joselu. Zero box presence will get you nowhere. We are scraping by but we definitively need those 2 back.

by El Gunner Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:41 pm

what about the almighty top 3 player in the world Vinicius?

by Myesyats Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:36 pm

Equipos con más goles anulados por VAR desde que se usa el videoarbitraje en La Liga:

27 REAL MADRID (+1 hoy)
16 Sevilla
14 Atlético de Madrid
14 Valencia
13 Real Sociedad
12 Celta
11 Barcelona
11 Valladolid
11 Espanyol
11 Villarreal
10 Getafe
— MisterChip (Alexis) (@2010MisterChip) February 25, 2024

by BarcaLearning Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:07 pm

Yea, pretty spoiled but not surprising from Real fans when u got likes of Vini, Rodrygo, Diaz, n still old Modric n Kroos, etc., all so capable of getting the goals even if u got injuries... n Real cant win another CL this yrs ffs dont be greedy... since starting next yr Mbappe will prolly win u at least half a dozen Razz

by Myesyats Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:48 pm

This is all goals that would've stood if it weren't for VAR

You can draw conclusions yourself hmm

by El Gunner Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:11 pm

El Gunner wrote:what about the almighty top 3 player in the world Vinicius?

crickets

by farfan Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:01 pm

Myesyats wrote:This is all goals that would've stood if it weren't for VAR

You can draw conclusions yourself

VAR makes mistakes = Corrupt Madrid controls VAR
VAR makes correct decisions = VAR is stopping corrupt Madrid

15 years of whining and loony conspiracy theories over a league they've won 11 years of the 15. A truly embarrassing club, culture, and fanbase.

by titosantill Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:15 pm

If one didn't know any better you would think they were Valencia who haven't won the league in ages

by Myesyats Thu Feb 29, 2024 10:44 am

There has always been a systemic favoritism toward RM in on-field decisions, much harder with VAR because everyone can see the replays and they release audio from the room.

This stat provides insight how field refs tend to allow more goals for RM even if they are obviously invalid (it was evident pre-VAR too btw). That is not to say that there is corruption, bias does not necessarily mean corruption - it could just as easily be subconscious favoritism. Also, the stat would be less credible if RM scored more goals on average but I dont think they do and actually this season even penniless Barca has scored more thus far with plenty of goals disallowed without VAR intervention. They definitely do not score 2-3x more than their rivals.

The capital club is always (or almost always) the sweetheart, you can see it in other countries too.

Obviously we would also need to see decisions where the goal was incorrectly disallowed and then amended by VAR to make a more conclusive assessment but either way a honest conversation about this will never happen because its more convenient to ignore it. If you think favoritism doesnt exist then grow up. And this is just one limb of a gargantuan living and breathing organism.

by titosantill Thu Feb 29, 2024 12:00 pm

The top 5 leagues the capital clubs aren't the "sweetheart", at least not in Germany Italy England. And even France, before PSGs new found fame they weren't anyone's sweetheart.

As far as Madrid goes, for a club that people say ref this or that, we have massively underachieved from the late 90s onwards. We've only won a handful of Spanish cups, and for years never won more than one trophy in a season. Not to mention, we have had times when we have lost to the lowest of the lows.

That whole corrupt thing doesn't hold water if we really start getting deep into it. I'm not with conspiracies, but there's a higher case for barca than Madrid tbh.

by futbol_bill Thu Feb 29, 2024 1:39 pm

These Barca fans just can’t accept that there is a huge refereeing / VAR use in Spain. Every club including Barca has complaints. i’m sure every single club can put together a package where they have been robbed! The issues are in my opinion are that the problem is not recognized by league management, i.e. Tebas and secondly there needs to be transparency. Make VAR use clearly defined and totally transparent and available publicly and make referees clearly explain their controversial calls, again available publicly rather than simply punish those who dare question their calls.

by Myesyats Thu Feb 29, 2024 1:53 pm

titosantill wrote:The top 5 leagues the capital clubs aren't the "sweetheart", at least not in Germany Italy England. And even France, before PSGs new found fame they weren't anyone's sweetheart.

As far as Madrid goes, for a club that people say ref this or that, we have massively underachieving from the late 90s onwards. We've only won a handful of Spanish cups, and for years never won more than one trophy in a season. Not to mention, we have had times when we have lost to the lowest of the lows.

That whole corrupt thing doesn't hold water if we really start getting deep into it. I'm not with conspiracies, but there's a higher case for barca than Madrid tbh.

It doesnt have to be corruption, people and referees especially subconsciously make decisions even if they are not being paid to do it. Even political tensions between Catalunya and Spain play a role. Bill knows this but won't admit it

by farfan Thu Feb 29, 2024 3:53 pm

Myesyats wrote:There has always been a systemic favoritism toward RM in on-field decisions, much harder with VAR because everyone can see the replays and they release audio from the room.

This stat provides insight how field refs tend to allow more goals for RM even if they are obviously invalid (it was evident pre-VAR too btw). That is not to say that there is corruption, bias does not necessarily mean corruption - it could just as easily be subconscious favoritism. Also, the stat would be less credible if RM scored more goals on average but I dont think they do and actually this season even penniless Barca has scored more thus far with plenty of goals disallowed without VAR intervention. They definitely do not score 2-3x more than their rivals.

The capital club is always (or almost always) the sweetheart, you can see it in other countries too.

Obviously we would also need to see decisions where the goal was incorrectly disallowed and then amended by VAR to make a more conclusive assessment but either way a honest conversation about this will never happen because its more convenient to ignore it. If you think favoritism doesnt exist then grow up. And this is just one limb of a gargantuan living and breathing organism.

It's impossible to have an honest conversation when one group is constantly moving the goalposts. For years the biggest controversy was around VAR and its supposed bias towards Madrid. Laporta was railing against it as recently as January Laughing

. But now all of a sudden we're pivoting to VAR doing its job just fine and is actually exposing referee bias towards Madrid? hmm

And even if we entertain this argument, what exactly are these numbers telling us? Sevilla is one of the lowest scoring teams in the league and creates less than half the chances that Barça creates per game. Are they also benefiting from ref bias? Relative to the potency of their attack, they're actually getting more calls in their favor than Madrid.

It seems like Barça fans are just grasping at any semblance of evidence to keep the "refdrid" narrative going, even if it contradicts claims they were making just months ago (In this case, the claim that VAR is a broken system that only favors Madrid)

All of this leads to the same questions that every rational observer have been asking for the past 15 years: What does Madrid have to show for this alleged favoritism from the refs and league as a whole? Why are Barça fans so hellbent on undermining the integrity of a competition they've dominated for over a decade? Madrid won a measly 4 titles in 15 years and they haven't been able to defend the title a single time in that period Laughing

During that same time they've won 5 CLs and even managed to defend the title twice.

According to Barça media and fans, even that modest and frankly embarrassing "success" should have an asterisk next to it. Apparently, Madrid had no business winning La Liga in 2012 despite everything pointing to them being the best team in Europe. The Madrid team that won 3 consecutive Champions Leagues should've won 0 league titles, because Barça were supposedly robbed in 2017. The 2022 title (this is the year Barça media wouldn't shut up about VARdrid) isn't free from these accusations either because even the broke ass post-Messi Barça felt entitled to wrestling a league title away from a much superior team that went on to win the Champions League Laughing

by Pedram Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:18 pm

farfan wrote:
Myesyats wrote:There has always been a systemic favoritism toward RM in on-field decisions, much harder with VAR because everyone can see the replays and they release audio from the room.

This stat provides insight how field refs tend to allow more goals for RM even if they are obviously invalid (it was evident pre-VAR too btw). That is not to say that there is corruption, bias does not necessarily mean corruption - it could just as easily be subconscious favoritism. Also, the stat would be less credible if RM scored more goals on average but I dont think they do and actually this season even penniless Barca has scored more thus far with plenty of goals disallowed without VAR intervention. They definitely do not score 2-3x more than their rivals.

The capital club is always (or almost always) the sweetheart, you can see it in other countries too.

Obviously we would also need to see decisions where the goal was incorrectly disallowed and then amended by VAR to make a more conclusive assessment but either way a honest conversation about this will never happen because its more convenient to ignore it. If you think favoritism doesnt exist then grow up. And this is just one limb of a gargantuan living and breathing organism.

It's impossible to have an honest conversation when one group is constantly moving the goalposts. For years the biggest controversy was around VAR and its supposed bias towards Madrid. Laporta was railing against it as recently as January . But now all of a sudden we're pivoting to VAR doing its job just fine and is actually exposing referee bias towards Madrid?

And even if we entertain this argument, what exactly are these numbers telling us? Sevilla is one of the lowest scoring teams in the league and creates less than half the chances that Barça creates per game. Are they also benefiting from ref bias? Relative to the potency of their attack, they're actually getting more calls in their favor than Madrid.

It seems like Barça fans are just grasping at any semblance of evidence to keep the "refdrid" narrative going, even if it contradicts claims they were making just months ago (In this case, the claim that VAR is a broken system that only favors Madrid)

All of this leads to the same questions that every rational observer have been asking for the past 15 years: What does Madrid have to show for this alleged favoritism from the refs and league as a whole? Why are Barça fans so hellbent on undermining the integrity of a competition they've dominated for over a decade? Madrid won a measly 4 titles in 15 years and they haven't been able to defend the title a single time in that period During that same time they've won 5 CLs and even managed to defend the title twice.

According to Barça media and fans, even that modest and frankly embarrassing "success" should have an asterisk next to it. Apparently, Madrid had no business winning La Liga in 2012 despite everything pointing to them being the best team in Europe. The Madrid team that won 3 consecutive Champions Leagues should've won 0 league titles, because Barça were supposedly robbed in 2017. The 2022 title (this is the year Barça media wouldn't shut up about VARdrid) isn't free from these accusations either because even the broke ass post-Messi Barça felt entitled to wrestling a league title away from a much superior team that went on to win the Champions League

Cooked the fraud

by BarcaLearning Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:57 pm

Im not even bothered anymore, as shown by the recent game cant even remember which one now, where the ref so blatantly gave so much favours to Real it was so obvious... like goal disallowed for the opponent, n ignores foul or hand ball before Vini I think it was scored, etc... n no one response or mentions it n sweeps it under the carpet Very Happy

So its just a fact Ive grown to accept as part of life that Real will always get favours Very Happy

by Myesyats Thu Feb 29, 2024 6:08 pm

Cooked what? Laughing

The amount of league titles does not prove anything, and just because Madrid didn't win one title or the other doesnt mean they weren't favored. That's a non argument. You can be favored and have calls go in your favor and still finish 2nd, especially over 38 games. Not that hard to grasp, is it? The reason they didn't win more leagues is due to other factors too such as their choice of coach and Messi's OP decisiveness among other things.

Lots of words to say nothing.

by farfan Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:40 pm

The amount of titles wasn't the main retort to your accusations though. You're still not addressing the shameless pivot from 5 years of accusing VAR of swaying the league in favor of Madrid to lauding VAR as an effective tool of exposing some unconscious ref Madrid bias. Does VAR help Madrid or not? You can't have it both ways.

The point about titles was just a pondering question about this odd obsession from this club and its fan base. Usually, it's the most dominant and winningest clubs that are subject to these conspiracies and refereeing scrutiny. When Serie A fans accused referees of favoring Juventus, it was at a time when Juventus was winning the league every year. When EPL fans accused refs of doing the same for United, it was at a time when they were winning the league every other year for over two decades. When fans of other French teams accused Aulas of rigging the league, it was at a time when Lyon was winning it every year. La Liga is the only instance I'm aware of where the dominant and most winning team is the one making these accusations. This isn't proof of anything but it's still an unusual occurrence that is worth reflecting on.

And it doesn't stop there either. Barça aren't just making these accusations in a league they've dominated, they're making these accusations in a league where they've conceded the fewest penalties, received the most penalties, got the fewest red cards, and got more opponents sent off than other team in the league. Barça went from February 2016 to March 2018 without conceding a SINGLE penalty. By the end of the 2018, the past decade's red card balance stood at -5 for Madrid and +43 for Barça Laughing

Would any of this be possible in a league that is biased towards Madrid?

I truly believe this victim mentality is stemming from Catalans' complicated relationship with the central government and has simply spilled over to Football. They feel hard done by the big bad capital club even when there is little evidence to back up said feelings. Fans outside of Spain are just going with the flow and taking on the identify and atittude of the locals.