The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3

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Post by Babun Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:34 am

The spread of the delta variant is concerning:
https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-50-of-delta-variant-cases-vaccinated-severe-2021-6

That one also mutated to delta plus Variant:
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/25/health/delta-plus-variant-explainer-intl-hnk-scn/index.html

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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:15 am

@VivaStPauli you had your second ModeRNA shot yet?

I had it yesterday at noon, and the doctor told me to brace for some reaction, and he wasn't wrong

pretty trippy, not really terrible, but weird

temperature rises a bit, slightly wobbly feeling after 6 hours, but EXACTLY 12 hours after the shot, to the minute, all of a sudden you break into shivers for half an hour and get some proper fever, which basically lasted all through the night.
Down now to just high temperature, and I'm ok but really knackered and headache, and the arm hurts more

I heard from 3 people who had the exact same experience, 12 hours after the shot to the minute
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Post by VivaStPauli Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:31 pm

Getting my 2nd shot one week from today, so next friday.
Heard similar stories, so just to make sure I'll be working this saturday and take monday off as well, letting me just chill for three days just in case.

Strong reaction is generally regarded as a good sign though.
Hope it's only a short flu-like thing for you, all the best!
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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:41 pm

It's not even flu-like, that's the interesting thing. You get shakes and fever, but the fever is not as unpleasant as when it's a cold or a flu - at least that's how I felt it. It just felt like a little oven inside  going off all of a sudden to burn all night, also a bit like on half a pill
'Gliederschmerzen' though, but they were not too bad for me
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Post by VivaStPauli Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:20 pm

I'm 36 - I rock Gliederschmerzen all day every day anyway. I'm looking forward to it, and will keep you posted on how I do.
But glad you're through, now stay safe for the next two weeks and then you can concentrate on other shit in your life, really glad for you, mate!
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Post by BarcaLearning Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:34 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:@BarcaLearning
The BioNTech vaccine is developed by BioNTech in Mainz, Germany, but the company is owned by American pharma company Pfizer who paid for much of the research & development, and it is AFAIK produced in Pfizer-owned factories in multiple countries, so it's made in Germany, and the US, at the very least.

Distribution is difficult and demand outstrips supply, so for example I got Moderna, even though I live about 60km away from Mainz, where the BioNTech vaccine was developed.

...

As for where the virus came from, I think coronaviruses mutate all the time, so I think it probably developed in bats, and some other animal ate a bat, and then a human ate the other animal, or got bitten by it, or lived in close proximity to it.
I do not think it came from a lab, and from what I read many serious virologists also don't think that.
I am very suspicious that we probably got warned too late because the Chinese authorities tried to cover it up, but I don't think they made it. They just tried to save face, and it backfired.
But I don't actually know, and I won't pretend anything is certain until there's scientific consensus.


Thanks Viva, although its just quite shocking to learn that your basically a local there and yet u cant even get a BioNTech vaccine? I guess its just true the rich countries get it first basically.

I have no idea if Im right at all, but I go by the fact that mRNA ones are 'safer' becos they contain no virus, whereas all the other ones are basically using dead or parts of a virus for delivery, hence Im in hope of waiting out for an mRNA one eventually since there are only the other ones where Im at still...

The big problem with covid is the fact that variants come about when it continues to spread around and mutate, and it looks like its doing that in poorer countries without as good access to good vaccines. This Delta variants appears to be from the huge India outbreak, so whos to say its not gonna happen again in the many countries similar conditions to India. It will take forever to get back to normal as long as the govs dont relax their lockdowns and border controls, and govs fear these variants the most. Although not many of them are even really pushing enough for vaccines to be delivered to these vulnerable countries...

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Post by VivaStPauli Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:11 pm

Oh, I could have gotten the BioNTech vaccine if I had insisted.
It's regarded to be equivalent to the Moderna vaccine, so you basically get one of the ones at random when you book a vaccine dates for your two shots.
Where I got my vaccine just happened to stock Moderna at the time, if I had wanted BioNTech, I could've gone somewhere else if I had been willing to wait two, three more days. I just took the earliest date I could, which was also convenient because ATM I get vaxxed on fridays, which are easy for me to get off work, and it also allows me to take the weekend after me 2nd dose off to recuperate.
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Post by BarcaLearning Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:35 pm

Cool, good luck and stay well for you and everyone here too getting them~
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Post by Babun Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:56 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:Oh, I could have gotten the BioNTech vaccine if I had insisted.
It's regarded to be equivalent to the Moderna vaccine, so you basically get one of the ones at random when you book a vaccine dates for your two shots.
Where I got my vaccine just happened to stock Moderna at the time, if I had wanted BioNTech, I could've gone somewhere else if I had been willing to wait two, three more days. I just took the earliest date I could, which was also convenient because ATM I get vaxxed on fridays, which are easy for me to get off work, and it also allows me to take the weekend after me 2nd dose off to recuperate.

The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3 - Page 32 5eti4u

Good news:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/28/health/coronavirus-vaccines-immunity.html
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:18 pm

Yeah pretty much

Only difference here is that you whatever yo wait 3 weeks for the 2nd Pfizer and 4 weeks for the 2nd moderna.
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Post by Babun Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:56 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Yeah pretty much

Only difference here is that you whatever yo wait 3 weeks for the 2nd Pfizer and 4 weeks for the 2nd moderna.

Not in Germany, 4 weeks for both.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:50 am

Very interesting article.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/25/opinion/coronavirus-lab.html

This kind of genetic manipulation had already raised concerns, especially after laboratories in the Netherlands and the United States announced in 2011 that they had created strains of flu viruses using genetic material from the H5N1 influenza A virus, which is very deadly but generally can’t yet spread among people. These new strains could spread by air among ferrets, which have humanlike lungs. The uproar had been immediate.

In defense of the 2015 coronavirus experiment by Dr. Shi and her colleagues, Peter Daszak, whose organization, EcoHealth Alliance, has worked closely with her and has been granted tens of millions of dollars in the last decade from the U.S. government, said the findings would allow scientists to focus on the greatest risk because it would “move this virus from a candidate emerging pathogen to a clear and present danger.”

Others were more worried. “If the virus escaped, nobody could predict the trajectory,” said Simon Wain-Hobson, a virologist at the Pasteur Institute in Paris.

Recent history provided plenty of reason for such concern.

Nearly every SARS case since the original epidemic has been due to lab leaks — six incidents in three countries, including twice in a single month from a lab in Beijing. In one instance, the mother of a lab worker died.

In 2007, foot-and-mouth disease, which can devastate livestock and caused a massive crisis in Britain in 2001, escaped from a drainage pipe leak at an English lab with the highest biosafety rating, BSL-4.

Even the last known person who died of smallpox was someone infected because of a lab incident in Britain in 1978.

In its first published survey of the reporting systems in American labs working with dangerous pathogens, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in 2012 reported 11 laboratory-acquired infections across six years, often in BSL-3 labs — the category of safety reserved for pathogens like tuberculosis. In each instance, the exposure was not realized or reported until lab workers became infected.

In January 2014, the C.D.C. contaminated a benign flu virus sample with deadly A(H5N1) but didn’t discover the danger until months later. And in June 2014, it mistakenly sent improperly deactivated anthrax bacteria to labs, potentially exposing at least 62 C.D.C. employees who worked with the samples without protective gear. One month later, vials of live smallpox virus were found in a storage room at the National Institutes of Health.

In October 2014, after that string of high-profile incidents, the United States paused its funding of new gain-of-function research, with few exceptions. The moratorium was lifted in 2017.

Far more serious questions about scientific safety would soon arise.

Seems like in the 20th century we had nuclear power as the world threat, and in the 21st century it will be out of control viruses. Why even research something so dangerous that a leak could kill millions?
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Post by El Gunner Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:08 am

because mad scientists and governmental upper-hands in case of bioweapon warfare or population control
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Post by Warrior Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:52 am

Science research provides knowledge on a eventual pandemic. When covid struck the world some people knew what it was about and one year later a treatment is ready.

As for why governments fund research on virus, maybe out of pure scientific curiosity but also we live in a world where biological warfare is possible, militarism is the ideology everyone is following, so it's a necessary evil. It's an observation definitely not an opinion Thumbs up

Best they can do is have is very severe security measures in labs, so the virus never escapes, of course i don't have any precise instructions to submit.
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:12 pm

@Babun wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Yeah pretty much

Only difference here is that you whatever yo wait 3 weeks for the 2nd Pfizer and 4 weeks for the 2nd moderna.

Not in Germany, 4 weeks for both.


Mine are spaced 6 weeks apart.
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Post by RealGunner Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:25 pm

8 weeks for me but that's mainly because they want everyone to get their 1st dose first.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:41 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Very interesting article.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/25/opinion/coronavirus-lab.html

This kind of genetic manipulation had already raised concerns, especially after laboratories in the Netherlands and the United States announced in 2011 that they had created strains of flu viruses using genetic material from the H5N1 influenza A virus, which is very deadly but generally can’t yet spread among people. These new strains could spread by air among ferrets, which have humanlike lungs. The uproar had been immediate.

In defense of the 2015 coronavirus experiment by Dr. Shi and her colleagues, Peter Daszak, whose organization, EcoHealth Alliance, has worked closely with her and has been granted tens of millions of dollars in the last decade from the U.S. government, said the findings would allow scientists to focus on the greatest risk because it would “move this virus from a candidate emerging pathogen to a clear and present danger.”

Others were more worried. “If the virus escaped, nobody could predict the trajectory,” said Simon Wain-Hobson, a virologist at the Pasteur Institute in Paris.

Recent history provided plenty of reason for such concern.

Nearly every SARS case since the original epidemic has been due to lab leaks — six incidents in three countries, including twice in a single month from a lab in Beijing. In one instance, the mother of a lab worker died.

In 2007, foot-and-mouth disease, which can devastate livestock and caused a massive crisis in Britain in 2001, escaped from a drainage pipe leak at an English lab with the highest biosafety rating, BSL-4.

Even the last known person who died of smallpox was someone infected because of a lab incident in Britain in 1978.

In its first published survey of the reporting systems in American labs working with dangerous pathogens, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in 2012 reported 11 laboratory-acquired infections across six years, often in BSL-3 labs — the category of safety reserved for pathogens like tuberculosis. In each instance, the exposure was not realized or reported until lab workers became infected.

In January 2014, the C.D.C. contaminated a benign flu virus sample with deadly A(H5N1) but didn’t discover the danger until months later. And in June 2014, it mistakenly sent improperly deactivated anthrax bacteria to labs, potentially exposing at least 62 C.D.C. employees who worked with the samples without protective gear. One month later, vials of live smallpox virus were found in a storage room at the National Institutes of Health.

In October 2014, after that string of high-profile incidents, the United States paused its funding of new gain-of-function research, with few exceptions. The moratorium was lifted in 2017.

Far more serious questions about scientific safety would soon arise.

Seems like in the 20th century we had nuclear power as the world threat, and in the 21st century it will be out of control viruses. Why even research something so dangerous that a leak could kill millions?

Whatever it is, lab-leak or zoonotic spillover, people deserve to know the truth about the origin of Covid-19. We are exhausted, angry and in mourning for our family members and friends who died to this virus. I stopped watching the news a long time ago because I got so depressed reading about people dying like flies every single day.

I buried my uncle and several family members just a few days ago, and I'm scared for the life of my loved ones, especially my parents who live alone and away from me.

I will not forgive. I will not forget, and I hope whoever is responsible to be tried and punished in my lifetime.
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:42 pm

@RealGunner wrote:8 weeks for me but that's mainly because they want everyone to get their 1st dose first.


Same for me, if they had had enough, they would've given me the 2nd jab after 4 weeks.
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Post by VivaStPauli Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:58 pm

So  @Hapless_Hans - my 2nd shot was almost exactly 12 hours ago now, and TBH for a minute there I felt like I had been struck by the hammer of Thor.

Am extremely tired, got joint pain, feeling very woozy, got shivers, mild headache. Not running a high temperature as of yet, and will just go to bed without taking anything, just have been incredibly thirsty and had like 3 liters of water and 1 liter of alcohol free wheat beer to get dem electrolytes.
Also ate two regular meals plus a bunch of pretzels.
Hungry and thirsty AF, body must be working it's ass off.

All in all not pleasant, but also not feeling like it might kill me. Will update in the morning. Or tonight if I can't sleep or something interesting happens.
After I got used to being this knackered and the slight wooziness, it's not so bad, looking forward to the shivers and the fever you had in the night though, hoping to skip that.

See you guys on the other side!
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Post by Babun Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:36 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:So  @Hapless_Hans - my 2nd shot was almost exactly 12 hours ago now, and TBH for a minute there I felt like I had been struck by the hammer of Thor.

Am extremely tired, got joint pain, feeling very woozy, got shivers, mild headache. Not running a high temperature as of yet, and will just go to bed without taking anything, just have been incredibly thirsty and had like 3 liters of water and 1 liter of alcohol free wheat beer to get dem electrolytes.
Also ate two regular meals plus a bunch of pretzels.
Hungry and thirsty AF, body must be working it's ass off.

All in all not pleasant, but also not feeling like it might kill me. Will update in the morning. Or tonight if I can't sleep or something interesting happens.
After I got used to being this knackered and the slight wooziness, it's not so bad, looking forward to the shivers and the fever you had in the night though, hoping to skip that.

See you guys on the other side!

You just need to sleep over. I think there won't be anything left by tomorrow. Just don't overexcert yourself in the next few days because you'll be weak without feeling weak which is dangerous.
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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Jul 04, 2021 3:19 pm

Alright so about 2 hours after that post, I absolutely died.
Worst head-splitting, absolutely tormentous headache I've had in a few years. Whoah, not a chill ride.
Absolute torture for like 36 hours.
I'm much better today, and at this rate, will probably be mostly fine tomorrow.

But this was a lot worse than I thought.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:11 pm

Glad you're doing better viva Thumbs up all downhill from now
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Post by Babun Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:48 am

@VivaStPauli wrote:Alright so about 2 hours after that post, I absolutely died.
Worst head-splitting, absolutely tormentous headache I've had in a few years. Whoah, not a chill ride.
Absolute torture for like 36 hours.
I'm much better today, and at this rate, will probably be mostly fine tomorrow.

But this was a lot worse than I thought.

Gute Besserung!
The jab has got the same spike protein the real virus uses to attach itself to cells. By the way, "die Generalprobe" went on consider yourself lucky to be jabbed before the delta wave.
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Post by rincon Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:12 am

Just got my 2nd moderna dose, hope its all smooth, the first dose was fine.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:53 am

@rincon wrote:Just got my 2nd moderna dose, hope its all smooth, the first dose was fine.


Brace yourself for impact in ~10 hours.
See that you've got everything you need, get comfy in the evening and make no plans for tomorrow.
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Post by rincon Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:29 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@rincon wrote:Just got my 2nd moderna dose, hope its all smooth, the first dose was fine.

Brace yourself for impact in ~10 hours.
See that you've got everything you need, get comfy in the evening and make no plans for tomorrow.

Thanks Thumbs up

Yeah I told work I might not come in, planning to just relax and watch italy destroy Spain tomorrow if I feel ill.
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