The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3

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Post by RealGunner Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:31 pm

@The Franchise wrote:
@MindYourThinking wrote:Spoke with some friends last week that have opted not to get the shot/jab and it seems their friends will not hang with them. One feels so much pressure that they are considering to lie about it because of the ridicule and harassment being received.

I'm not here to debate opinions or anything like that. This is all about bully tactics and intimidation. I was never one for the club scene, eating out, sports events, et cetera. That being said, there is no evidence or longterm studies on the effectiveness of these shots, so I find it irresponsible (if we're going by the narrative this virus is so deadly) to pack stadiums, clubs which has been happening here for quite sometime now.

It's become obvious the new agenda is to blame the unvaccinated which is a complete joke. Honestly, if you can't see it then it's clear to me you lack the ability to think critically and discern truth from falsehood.



That sucks. Luckily, for whatever reason, I have not experienced that here.

I think within my circle, the divide is different. Either you are not getting the jab for whatever reason or they have already got it and arent talking about it openly.

My sense is that the guys in my group who have got it, have done so not for health reasons, but because they think they should so they can go on holiday or not be excluded from society in the way people like me probably will be.


America is just extra when it comes to things like that. I don't think UK has the 'shunning' culture if you get vaccinated or not. Probably helps we are more of a 'prude' nation so there isn't any need for talking about it.

I said it before, the only reason i got vaccinated is due to travel. I wouldn't have taken it otherwise (purely because of what i said a while ago). But it doesn't look like travel is going to get back to normal until 2022. So it sucks either way

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:57 pm

I feel like the us is a lot more al and individualistic than Europe on this. There is no debate about vaccine passports for crowded events, like there is there. It would likely be ruled unconstitutional of they tried (right to assembly).
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Post by El Gunner Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:03 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:It's fun how people like El Gunner refuse to listen to the doctors, right? And then everyone is like 'nobody could have predicted this', except all the health care workers have been desperately appealing to all of us to stay home, wear a mask when not at home, and get vaxxed.

But I guess it's easier to clap for them.

oh yea, top notch reasoning pal, way to go! Me who works from home and wears his mask whenever he goes into public spaces and barely speaks to people, it is I, I'm responsible for all the sick people lying in the ICU and for all the overworked healthcare workers Thumbs up
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Post by McLewis Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:32 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:I feel like the us is a lot more al and individualistic than Europe on this. There is no debate about vaccine passports for crowded events, like there is there. It would likely be ruled unconstitutional of they tried (right to assembly).


That and even if something like that passed, it's practically impossible to enforce. People just won't do it unless they feel like it. Everything imaginable beyond force has been tried to get people to get vaccinated in the most vulnerable places yet nearly half the country remains unvaccinated.
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Post by Myesyats Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:28 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:
@MindYourThinking wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:It's embarrassing for the human race that during a deadly pandemic people have to be encouraged to take a vaccine that clearly and undoubtedly saves lives. It should be a no-brainer for any sentient human being with elementary knowledge


Please provide this proof with actual statistics and where you have sourced this information.

These shots were manufactured in a rushed environment with no longterm research to back up your claims. In fact, the companies manufacturing the shots have zero liability because of the circumstance. So it seems silly to me such a claim would be made with no evidence.

There are multiple manufacturers and not all of them are considered "vaccines"...so your post is already showing a level of ignorance due to the generalization.

At least research from as many sources as you can and look for the common themes. "Sources" with a vested interest and/or agenda have a conflict of interest. I could make the claim of being shocked that so many are unable to utilize and apply the scientific method, however this is not the case. At the very least, it would be nice if we could actually carry on conversations without all the attack on character because people are opting not to be experimented on.

https://taplink.cc/insta_ashleyeverly


What the Christ are you on about, Dom?
Nearly everyone in intensive care in England, in the US, in Europe is not vaccinated, either there's a shadowy cabal roaming the night and injecting those illuminated to the evil of vaccinations with poison, or maybe, just maybe, it gives you a 90%+ chance of dodging a very serious illness.


Right... I won't even bother responding. The data is clear on the vaccines and thus it is rather ignorant to argue otherwise. The numbers don't lie and theres nothing else to say

to say there is "no evidence on the effectiveness of these shots" is beyond ignorant

If you dont want to take the vaccine dont take it, but actions have consequences and thats part of being an adult.
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Post by Robespierre Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:33 am

High fever Mad Mad: Mad:
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:31 am

@Robespierre wrote:High fever Mad Mad: Mad:

Don't worry, it only lasts for a few hours.

You did well by getting it.
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Post by Arquitecto Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:16 pm

Wew.

Back in my early GL days where my general views that lacked any nuance let alone how they are to now I would vouch to be against the vaccine since I was a borderline anti-vaxxer but until I learned to pay respect to sample sizes and run the fucking numbers.


The vax indeed should not be forced upon anyone as everyone should be allowed a choice but what it does do is simply reduce the severities of the virus symptoms. It does not prevent it no but I feel the input of what it does do, outweighs its possible risk.

Getting it this week but:

I need my GL comrade's finest advice on which vaccine they would recommend.

Come through, gentlemen.
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Post by FennecFox7 Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:18 pm

NAC + Glutathione + Alpha Lipolic acid is an effective counter towards COVID and Glutathione in particular was used in Dallas hospitals (I know of a couple doctors who used it) and it reversed some severe cases

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Post by Robespierre Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:55 pm

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:High fever Mad Mad: Mad:

Don't worry, it only lasts for a few hours.

You did well by getting it.


Yeah mate, it was strong and sudden !, It begun at 2 AM,  I was ok before ( I got vaccinated around 12 AM) .. It was strong tbf but lasted few hours

Just I hope it doesn't revive this night
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Post by Thimmy Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:11 pm

It's great that we rank highly (temporarily #1) in Covid resilience, but I find it a bit strange that we're so highly ranked when only 48% of people are vaccinated. For such a small population with plenty of resources and no shortage of vaccines, that seems quite underwhelming to me.

Bloomberg wrote:The Covid Resilience Ranking is a monthly snapshot of where the virus is being handled the most effectively with the least social and economic disruption. Tapping 12 data indicators that span Covid containment, quality of healthcare, vaccination coverage, overall mortality and—as of last month—progress toward restarting travel and easing border curbs, the Ranking’s top performers are increasingly those economies where vaccination is driving containment and underpinning reopening.

Taking that into account, it begs the question - what's the point in being well prepared, when the efficiency is evidently not very good?

The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3 - Page 36 Skjerm24

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-resilience-ranking/?cmpid=BBD072821_CORONAVIRUS&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_term=210728&utm_campaign=coronavirus
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Post by Myesyats Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:26 am

@Arquitecto wrote:I need my GL comrade's finest advice on which vaccine they would recommend.

Come through, gentlemen.

The best vaccine of them all:

The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3 - Page 36 Tumblr_op38twTxOk1w2x309o1_400
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Post by Babun Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:04 pm

@Arquitecto wrote:
The vax indeed should not be forced upon anyone as everyone should be allowed a choice but what it does do is simply reduce the severities of the virus symptoms. It does not prevent it no but I feel the input of what it does do, outweighs its possible risk.

Wuhan virus, specially the delta variant, infects upper respiratory organs first (nose and throat mostly). There, the antibodies in your blood serum cannot neutralize them because the virus isn't in the blood (the phase you can infect other people even if fully vaccinated). At some point, those viruses try to enter the lungs etc. This is where the vaccine's effect neutralises them. After some time, upper organs are free from the Wuhan virus then.
So, to summarize, you're immune once the virus enter the blood and is recognized as such by the immune system. Like with every vaccine, there're people who don't develop enough antibodies. They might get ill, mostly elderly population who've got a weak general immune system to begin with.
The vaccines work as intended.
@Arquitecto wrote:

I need my GL comrade's finest advice on which vaccine they would recommend.

Come through, gentlemen.
Biontech/Pfizer or Moderna, where are you located? Spain and Italy got huge Moderna charges. If you're in one of those countries you'd likely get Moderna.

On Topic:
It seems like the 4th wave is flattening by itself. Most of the elderly are fully vaccinated, the amount of naturally immune ones among young people where the main part of the infections take place is also high. I'm optimistic we're achieving herd immunity in Europe. As a continent, Europe has got the highest amount of fully vaccinated people. I'd be still careful with my full assessment though because in most European countries schools are closed and people enjoy their holidays. The situation might change once the public institutions are going to reopen.
@El Gunner wrote:
@VivaStPauli wrote:It's fun how people like El Gunner refuse to listen to the doctors, right? And then everyone is like 'nobody could have predicted this', except all the health care workers have been desperately appealing to all of us to stay home, wear a mask when not at home, and get vaxxed.

But I guess it's easier to clap for them.

oh yea, top notch reasoning pal, way to go! Me who works from home and wears his mask whenever he goes into public spaces and barely speaks to people, it is I, I'm responsible for all the sick people lying in the ICU and for all the overworked healthcare workers Thumbs up

While you're certainly not responsible for all the people in the ICU wearing the mask alone doesn't prevent you from getting the Wuhan virus. You barely minimise the probability of an infection however given enough number of encounters over time the expectation of an infection becomes increasingly high to a degree wearing a mask won't matter in the end.
Expectation is calculated in your case as probability to get sick p times the number of encounter with other people:
E = n*p
For example, the probability to get a 6 is p=1/6. If you throw the dice more than n=6 times you ought to get a six at some point. Negative tests don't protect from an infection either, they just state you aren't sick at the moment. The only way to be safe is through vaccination or infection.
The 3rd option is to pray to Jesus, Allah [insert God/Gods of your choice] and hope all the info circulating about the Wuhan virus in the MSM isn't true.
@Thimmy wrote:It's great that we rank highly (temporarily #1) in Covid resilience, but I find it a bit strange that we're so highly ranked when only 48% of people are vaccinated. For such a small population with plenty of resources and no shortage of vaccines, that seems quite underwhelming to me.

Bloomberg wrote:The Covid Resilience Ranking is a monthly snapshot of where the virus is being handled the most effectively with the least social and economic disruption. Tapping 12 data indicators that span Covid containment, quality of healthcare, vaccination coverage, overall mortality and—as of last month—progress toward restarting travel and easing border curbs, the Ranking’s top performers are increasingly those economies where vaccination is driving containment and underpinning reopening.

Taking that into account, it begs the question - what's the point in being well prepared, when the efficiency is evidently not very good?

The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3 - Page 36 Skjerm24

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-resilience-ranking/?cmpid=BBD072821_CORONAVIRUS&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_term=210728&utm_campaign=coronavirus

Point is, also directed at Viva, as long the whole world doesn't sufficiently vaccinate Wuhan virus circulation with new variants cannot be stopped. We're doing damage mitigation. With some luck, even 50% fully vaccinated might be enough because the unknown number of asymptomatic infections among young people is rather high, so high that the immunity might be 70-80% even though the official vaccine data shows 50-60%.
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Post by El Gunner Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:33 pm

@FennecFox7 wrote:NAC + Glutathione + Alpha Lipolic acid is an effective counter towards COVID and Glutathione in particular was used in Dallas hospitals (I know of a couple doctors who used it) and it reversed some severe cases


Walter "FFox" White always coming through with the chemical compounds...
completely off topic and just out of curiosity, but do you know which specific component(s) found in antibiotics cause vivid dreams?
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Post by Myesyats Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:08 am

As the delta variant makes a deadly sweep through unvaccinated communities, renewing calls for masks and vaccine mandates, health experts say that rare “breakthrough infections” among vaccinated people are not a sign that vaccines are failing. Instead, they are a warning of how vaccine holdouts can endanger even their inoculated neighbors.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/breakthrough-covid-infections-show-the-unvaccinated-are-now-putting-the-vaccinated-at-risk?fbclid=IwAR0X8f3VWOT9ThuroTVvV7caZOweIl-j4txJUc1OBby_pUVmwo97Oyrf0dY

Thanks anti vaxers for being the breeding ground for new variants.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:19 pm

health experts say that rare “breakthrough infections” among vaccinated people are not a sign that vaccines are failing. Instead, they are a warning of how vaccine holdouts can endanger even their inoculated neighbors.

Hmm doubt. They're definitely failing at preventing the disease. And they're not rare. Here in MA with a Vax rate of 63%, 43% of new cases are coming from vaccinated people. That means the vaccine only really cuts your risk of infection by half. Good, not great.

For alpha a vaccinated person could reasonably assume even if they were asymptomatic they would not carry enough viral load to infect others. For delta, that's not the case, and vaccinated people can carry and infect others.

This is not what we were "promised" and I think a lot of people will now be very resistant to going back to socially distancing and mask wearing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/

A person working in partnership with the CDC on investigations of the delta variant, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak, said the data came from a July 4 outbreak in Provincetown, Mass. Genetic analysis of the outbreak showed that people who were vaccinated were transmitting the virus to other vaccinated people. The person said the data was “deeply disconcerting” and a “canary in the coal mine” for scientists who had seen the data.

“I think the central issue is that vaccinated people are probably involved to a substantial extent in the transmission of delta,” Jeffrey Shaman, a Columbia University epidemiologist, wrote in an email after reviewing the CDC slides. “In some sense, vaccination is now about personal protection — protecting oneself against severe disease. Herd immunity is not relevant as we are seeing plenty of evidence of repeat and breakthrough infections.”

Walter A. Orenstein, associate director of the Emory Vaccine Center, said he was struck by data showing that vaccinated people who became infected with delta shed just as much virus as those who were not vaccinated. The slide references an outbreak in Barnstable County, Mass., where vaccinated and unvaccinated people shed nearly identical amounts of virus.
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Post by Arquitecto Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:10 pm

My friends I have read all your opinions from FF to Babun and I want to thank you first of all and secondly its coming down mostly to Pfizer for me.

Would Moderna be a good alternative if that that what would be?
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Post by RealGunner Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:52 pm

@Arquitecto wrote:My friends I have read all your opinions from FF to Babun and I want to thank you first of all and secondly its coming down mostly to Pfizer for me.

Would Moderna be a good alternative if that that what would be?


Both are pretty much the same. Either is fine. Best two in the market
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Post by El Gunner Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:02 pm

found this in the covid section on the youtube home page

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UHCFPDhrEI
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Post by Myesyats Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:39 pm

"these are facts"
"are they though?"

case closed and dismissed :bow: :facepalm:
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Post by Casciavit Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:40 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
health experts say that rare “breakthrough infections” among vaccinated people are not a sign that vaccines are failing. Instead, they are a warning of how vaccine holdouts can endanger even their inoculated neighbors.

Hmm doubt. They're definitely failing at preventing the disease. And they're not rare. Here in MA with a Vax rate of 63%, 43% of new cases are coming from vaccinated people. That means the vaccine only really cuts your risk of infection by half. Good, not great.

For alpha a vaccinated person could reasonably assume even if they were asymptomatic they would not carry enough viral load to infect others. For delta, that's not the case, and vaccinated people can carry and infect others.

This is not what we were "promised" and I think a lot of people will now be very resistant to going back to socially distancing and mask wearing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/

A person working in partnership with the CDC on investigations of the delta variant, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak, said the data came from a July 4 outbreak in Provincetown, Mass. Genetic analysis of the outbreak showed that people who were vaccinated were transmitting the virus to other vaccinated people. The person said the data was “deeply disconcerting” and a “canary in the coal mine” for scientists who had seen the data.

“I think the central issue is that vaccinated people are probably involved to a substantial extent in the transmission of delta,” Jeffrey Shaman, a Columbia University epidemiologist, wrote in an email after reviewing the CDC slides. “In some sense, vaccination is now about personal protection — protecting oneself against severe disease. Herd immunity is not relevant as we are seeing plenty of evidence of repeat and breakthrough infections.”

Walter A. Orenstein, associate director of the Emory Vaccine Center, said he was struck by data showing that vaccinated people who became infected with delta shed just as much virus as those who were not vaccinated. The slide references an outbreak in Barnstable County, Mass., where vaccinated and unvaccinated people shed nearly identical amounts of virus.

Honestly at this point I can't say I'm surprised. It's natural because they are learning this stuff in real time and have to update their views depending on the latest data shown.

However since that's undeniably the case, I don't blame those who are waiting to get vaxed. There's been so much misinformation spread and the narrative constantly changes. I was planning on waiting it out myself for a year or so, but where I live they've mostly lifted restrictions and they announced that in a few weeks those who test positive are not required to quarantine anymore since 80% of people got their first dose.

With the rise of Delta and other variants, I felt it was a shitshow waiting to happen, so I've got my jabs. Two doses of Pfizer. I never got COVID and the fact that they released that news meant things would go back to normal. That means I'd be having to go into the office, travel when required and so forth. Combine that with no mandatory quarantine that means I'd be almost certain to get Covid if I wasn't vaccinated. So the option of waiting on further vaccine effectiveness developments was out of the picture.
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Post by Babun Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:05 am

@Arquitecto wrote:My friends I have read all your opinions from FF to Babun and I want to thank you first of all and secondly its coming down mostly to Pfizer for me.

Would Moderna be a good alternative if that that what would be?

Both of them are equal. Get the one you can get first. Time is the priority here. The shitshow will restart come mid august with probably no lockdowns anymore. You ought to be fully vaccinated during that time.
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
health experts say that rare “breakthrough infections” among vaccinated people are not a sign that vaccines are failing. Instead, they are a warning of how vaccine holdouts can endanger even their inoculated neighbors.

Hmm doubt. They're definitely failing at preventing the disease. And they're not rare. Here in MA with a Vax rate of 63%, 43% of new cases are coming from vaccinated people. That means the vaccine only really cuts your risk of infection by half. Good, not great.

For alpha a vaccinated person could reasonably assume even if they were asymptomatic they would not carry enough viral load to infect others. For delta, that's not the case, and vaccinated people can carry and infect others.

This is not what we were "promised" and I think a lot of people will now be very resistant to going back to socially distancing and mask wearing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/

A person working in partnership with the CDC on investigations of the delta variant, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak, said the data came from a July 4 outbreak in Provincetown, Mass. Genetic analysis of the outbreak showed that people who were vaccinated were transmitting the virus to other vaccinated people. The person said the data was “deeply disconcerting” and a “canary in the coal mine” for scientists who had seen the data.

“I think the central issue is that vaccinated people are probably involved to a substantial extent in the transmission of delta,” Jeffrey Shaman, a Columbia University epidemiologist, wrote in an email after reviewing the CDC slides. “In some sense, vaccination is now about personal protection — protecting oneself against severe disease. Herd immunity is not relevant as we are seeing plenty of evidence of repeat and breakthrough infections.”

Walter A. Orenstein, associate director of the Emory Vaccine Center, said he was struck by data showing that vaccinated people who became infected with delta shed just as much virus as those who were not vaccinated. The slide references an outbreak in Barnstable County, Mass., where vaccinated and unvaccinated people shed nearly identical amounts of virus.

63% of whom are fully vaccinated, adults or children? Anyways, 43% of those 63% seem to get sick anyways. The percentage would be p = 0.63*0.43*100%= 27.09%. That's no half, more like a quarter against the delta variant so there's almost 75% protection Very Happy
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Post by Warrior Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:49 am

Do you need to NOT eat/drink/smoke before the vaccine ?

I ask google first and they believe i am a muslim. Well now i know it's safe for ramadan Very Happy but i mean like 6 hours before the vaccine not in the days after
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Post by Babun Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:49 am

@Warrior wrote:Do you need to NOT eat/drink/smoke before the vaccine ?

Nope, eat as usual, don't do sports or heavy physical activities in the next days after the vaccination (vaccine = mild infection = sick). Also prepare for a possible reaction, we're all built differently (I had nothing, Viva had a stronger reaction etc.). I'd take the day after free.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:40 pm

@Babun wrote:63% of whom are fully vaccinated, adults or children? Anyways, 43% of those 63% seem to get sick anyways. The percentage would be p = 0.63*0.43*100%= 27.09%. That's no half, more like a quarter against the delta variant so there's almost 75% protection Very Happy

63% of total population
and 43% of total cases are from vaccinated people, not 43% of vaccinated people.

But I may have jumped the gun on those numbers. The Barnstable County it references has a gay summer hotspot, and it seems quite a few of these infections may not have come from being 2m away from someone at the supermarket but rather from being packed shoulder to shoulder in bars and making out with several people a night.
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The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3 - Page 36 Empty Re: The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3

Post by Babun Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:51 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@Babun wrote:63% of whom are fully vaccinated, adults or children? Anyways, 43% of those 63% seem to get sick anyways. The percentage would be p=0.63*0.43*100%= 27.09%. That's no half, more like a quarter against the delta variant so there's almost 75% protection Very Happy

63% of total population
and 43% of total cases are from vaccinated people, not 43% of vaccinated people.
Ok, so the chance to be fully vaccinated is 63%, the percentage of all of the vaccinated who got sick is 43%. The calculation doesn't change then, the probability of protection p =(1- 0,63*0.43)*100%=72.1%
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:But I may have jumped the gun on those numbers. The Barnstable County it references has a gay summer hotspot, and it seems quite a few of these infections may not have come from being 2m away from someone at the supermarket but rather from being packed shoulder to shoulder in bars and making out with several people a night.
I don't see a problem. At some point, all of the countries have to open up. I'm not going to hide so unvaccinated people can be safe. Nature is gonna run its course in the end. Their protection is their duty and if some might get sick despite vaccination so be it.
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