The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3

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Post by El Gunner Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:51 pm

you can already see it...
20 years from now the mainstream general consensus will be that it was from an animal, while the "conspiracy community" will say it is/was a bio-weapon

just like.... wait for it... HIV/AIDS

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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:04 pm

@El Gunner wrote:you can already see it...
20 years from now the mainstream general consensus will be that it was from an animal, while the "conspiracy community" will say it is/was a bio-weapon

just like.... wait for it... HIV/AIDS


I mean... Maybe.
What do you want to tell us with that?
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Post by El Gunner Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:23 pm

just what i said
nothing else
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Post by Myesyats Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:38 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:Covid-19 lab leak evidence ‘overwhelming’, experts say

Scientists say the chance that Covid-19 emerged naturally in animals at the Wuhan wet market is “one in a million”

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/covid19-lab-leak-evidence-overwhelming-experts-say/news-story/d8fa0dd0b3469efa3bfb5788b0459e3a


perhaps WW3 already started, a biological war


Really? Just read an interview with Germany's leading covid expoert Drosten and he says he assumes the jump to humans originated from Chinese fur farms where raccoon dogs, who eat bats in the wild, are caught and killed in close contact with humans, with their death cries creating aerosols

He said that the virus' chaotic genetic structure and properties regarding reproductory mechanisms don't make much sense to have been engineered and certainly don't look engineered

"Scientists" in the "Wall Street Journal" (which I guess is code for CIA disinformation agents) have also told us Saddam had nukes

I would think its not so easy to catch and eat a bat. Those racoon dogs must be so OP  

happy to be educated though. Always learnin  The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3 - Page 31 Victory-hand_270cThe Coronavirus Thread - Part 3 - Page 31 Victory-hand_270c

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:59 am

@The Franchise delta vaccune found to be covered by AZ vaccine. No point for the lock down at all after all
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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:34 pm

Hi guys, new to the section, after so many years on GL lol... I guess I was never interested in politics until last few years and especially now after Covid, USA vs China, etc., just so many issues thats gotta to a point where its affecting everybody worldwide it feels?

Gonna read back up the posts, but firstly just wanna ask what u guys think about just info on the net nowadays? I just find it impossible to find anything that u can say is concrete fact or real truth anymore? Lol. Every media outlet/channel/country whatever says things with their own agenda or perspective and just the sheer volume means its a lot of noise. Youtube just for example has gotten loaded with so much crap and spam armies and fake news channels its just sad lol. Where do u goto nowadays for real good unbiased info?
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Post by RealGunner Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:04 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:@The Franchise delta vaccune found to be covered by AZ vaccine. No point for the lock down at all after all


Wasn't this confirmed a while ago? Pfizer, Moderna, AZ all work against it. Not sure about the Chinese vaccinations though
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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:29 pm

Whats the rules here like? Razz Can I be direct in talking politics? Just Fyi, Im pretty western influenced view on things and do not like most things local lol, especially the gov, and Im not paid agent of the gov or anything like that lol... Actually its getting to a point where I really feel its too much. Im guessing a lot of ppl would be anti China nowadays for obvious reasons?

Can I just start also asking how everyone thinks of the origin of the virus? Obviously Wuhan wet market or the lab and all, but some odd reports where traces of it was found in some place weeks or even months b4 the outbreak in Wuhan?
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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:41 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:
@Thimmy wrote:
@VivaStPauli wrote:I got my first shot in mid May, didn't take a selfie, had no side effects, so can confirm.

I got my first one in april, second one in may. I've been hearing about side effects of Moderna and Pfizer occurring in individuals around 3 months after the second shot. I haven't noticed anything else than the odd, dizziness and feeling of my vision zooming in and out, just after I got the second vaccine. Then again, that was only a little over a month ago.

I got Moderna, 2nd shot is scheduled for 2nd of July, will keep you guys posted, but Germany has been slinging Moderna and Pfizer (we call it BioNTech here) left and right and so far the only reported complications have been from AstraZeneca, the known blood clot issues.

Question to you guys in Germany, BioNTech is German lab that developed it right? Then manufactured by US Pfizer or in German? Do u know if German manufactures a lot of it or they make it somewhere else? Cos from what I understand the whole world is lining up for it and its getting shipped to countless countries, would be good to know.


Last edited by BarcaLearning on Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:36 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by The Franchise Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:42 pm

@RealGunner wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:RG and anyone living in the UK.

Thoughts of Boris delaying "freedom day" another 4 weeks?

Can anyone justify this absolute nonsense? You actually think this has anything to do with saving lives?


Honestly nowhere around me has felt like we are still in a lockdown or anything so it doesn't bother me. Barely anyone wears marks in stores anymore. People have huge parties and whatnot. It doesn't bother me on a personal level but i am not sure why he moved it 4 weeks ahead since data has been consistent over the weeks.

The only thing i want him to do is open travel as i really need to go abroad and i can't.

Sure, for me and you thats fine but for anyone who owns a business in the nightlife or even hospitality is truly fucked.

This is another problem I have, we can see in front of our eyes this has nothing to do with public health. The contradictions never end and yet, silence.

How anybody follows the "rules" at this point is beyond me.

Obviously we have many people who have family abroad, they cant go see parents and so on, but UEFA officials and G7 wankers can come in with no issues.
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Post by The Franchise Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:43 pm

@Jay29 wrote:The rationale for the delay of "freedom day" was to wait for more data and allow for more 2nd doses, since it seems one is not enough for the Delta variant.

My issue is, there's been a lot of bleating about pure case numbers. Lots of advisors and scientists putting the fear in everyone because the case numbers are going up again, while not paying much heed to the emerging data trend of fewer hospitalisations and deaths. The vaccines appear to be doing their job by reducing severe cases and it's mostly the under 30s picking up the virus now. I found it striking how "saving lives" has become secondary to "easing pressure on the NHS in the face of their enormous backlog", which isn't as compelling, is it?

I do think it's a very cautious move. We know the NHS can cope and the age groups being infected have the smallest chance of severe disease and death. I think we're at a point now where legal restrictions are unnecessary and greater emphasis should now be placed on personal responsibility. If I'm being really cynical, a lot of this cautious rhetoric has been designed to spook people into getting their vaccines. This focus on pure numbers is just unhealthy when a) cases were always going to increase with heightened testing and fewer restrictions and b) the most vulnerable should, by now, be doubled-dosed and theoretically protected from severe illness. That seems like a decent position to be in now.

Easing pressure on a backlog caused by a measure which wasnt at all needed and the solution will again be, keep the measure longer/put in back in in autumn.

I wouldnt say your are being cynical, the behavioral phycologists in SAGE are doing their job putting out nonsense messages to gaslight the population. As they have been doing from my pov since day 1.

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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:48 pm

@RealGunner wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:I got Pfizer today

Not  took a selfie as most of ppl but yet I feel vaccine is working. What a time to be alive


i can connect myself to 5G after my first dose. Mine is working too


Lol whats with these, superstitions or jokes?

Man, on idea why I only came to this section now, like over year into the pandemic...
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Post by The Franchise Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:50 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:@The Franchise delta vaccune found to be covered by AZ vaccine. No point for the lock down at all after all

Indeed. But that was always going to be the case.

The delaying of reopening was never needed, even if you believe in restrictions being effective.

It was justified, yet again, based on modelling which was out by a factor of 10-20. As all the modelling has been since the start.

I just hope there arent many people out there who think this is purely miscalculation and poor judgement.
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Post by The Franchise Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:03 pm

@CBarca wrote:Nobody forcing you though. The fact it hasn't been forced is ultimately a good thing, if unfortunate. I'm here in the US though. Can other British posters confirm that you're being forced to take the vaccine?

My comparison stands, even if it's exaggerated. But we have to be careful about our discussion here. The comparison was never about anyone being forced to do anything. It was in response to why people would be annoyed with anti-vaxxers By not taking the vaccine you put others who *can't* or who *won't* take the vaccine in potential danger by acting as a vector. Maybe a better comparison is someone who is sick with the flu refusing to wash their hands or stay away from other people.

I would never say someone should be forced to take the flu vaccine. I would never say someone should be forced to wash their hands. I would never say someone should be forced to social distance from others because of the flu (although it should be noted that as per public health/public safety laws we do require people to do certain things, like employees to wash their hands, and no one bats an eye). But for the common good of the community, boy, if you have the flu you ought to stay home, cover your mouth, wash your hands etc. because you don't want to give other people the flu. The flu is an awful time. Same thing for COVID.

But it's your choice. Have said that from the beginning.

The other thing is that we're talking at different levels here. On an individual level, sure -- you as an individual won't make a difference in terms of endangering others or acting as a vector for mutant variants to spread. But at a community level, enough actors that think that way is a danger to public health. Me? I prefer to not be a danger to public health than to be a danger to public health. But that's an individual choice, just like washing your hands.


We wont go back and forth forever, but when you cant do x, y and z because you havent been vaccinated. You are in essence being forced.

The future is very predictable, at least here in the UK. Travel remains closed (which itself makes absolutely zero sense to me) and will only be reopened to those double jabbed. Two tier society, where you need to do what your being "asked" or you wont have the same freedoms everyone else has. What justification is there for this? Surely not a virus which will only impact a small minority of people, all of whom have already been vaccinated and therefore as protected as they ever will be.

There are people here who absolutely would not take the vaccine if they didnt believe their freedom would be attached to it. They want to return to what was, because the last year and a half has been too difficult for them. That alone flies in the face of the principle of what informed consent is.

If it was indeed about safety, having the virus would mean not needing the vaccine and those people would be "allowed" to not take the vaccine. Surely if your doing things in the correct way we would skip anyone who has already recovered and save the vaccine for those who actually need it?

I have no objections of alot of what your saying. If you are sick, please stay at home. You have no reason to be out infected others. That is perfectly logical to me. But these are not mandated things, these are things the vast majority of people will do anyway. The fact that medical procedures (which have legit safety concerns) are being tied to peoples existences, is just flat out wrong and makes some of these conspiracy theorists look really smart all of a sudden.
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Post by The Franchise Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:20 pm

@BarcaLearning wrote:Whats the rules here like? Razz Can I be direct in talking politics? Just Fyi, Im pretty western influenced view on things and do not like most things local lol, especially the gov, and Im not paid agent of the gov or anything like that lol... Actually its getting to a point where I really feel its too much. Im guessing a lot of ppl would be anti China nowadays for obvious reasons?

Can I just start also asking how everyone thinks of the origin of the virus? Obviously Wuhan wet market or the lab and all, but some odd reports where traces of it was found in some place weeks or even months b4 the outbreak in Wuhan?

I think people anti-Chinese is very wrong.

It is not the fault of the Chinese people regardless of how it came about.

The Chinese gov, I think its perfectly fine to have alot of suspicion about their motivations. Especially as the lab is acting in a very non-transparent way. Just not the way an innocent party acts.

I think its pretty safe to say, this is a lab leak one way or the other. I think speculating about how or why is too far.

My problem is not really that it probably came from the lab, my problem is that all these platforms shut down conversation immediately by removing anyone who simply questioned the wet market narrative. That to me got my radar up. If you think someone is spreading misinformation, you counter it by proving it wrong and having the discussion. Instead all we saw, channels and pages banned, taken down and removed and anyone who brought up "lab leak" was a fan of Trump or some tin foil hat wearing lunatic.

Surely the best way to avoid this situation moving forward is to conclusively figure out the origins of this? It seems alot to me like the people in charge have no genuine interest in that.


























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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:21 pm

@Myesyats wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:Covid-19 lab leak evidence ‘overwhelming’, experts say

Scientists say the chance that Covid-19 emerged naturally in animals at the Wuhan wet market is “one in a million”

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/covid19-lab-leak-evidence-overwhelming-experts-say/news-story/d8fa0dd0b3469efa3bfb5788b0459e3a


perhaps WW3 already started, a biological war


Really? Just read an interview with Germany's leading covid expoert Drosten and he says he assumes the jump to humans originated from Chinese fur farms where raccoon dogs, who eat bats in the wild, are caught and killed in close contact with humans, with their death cries creating aerosols

He said that the virus' chaotic genetic structure and properties regarding reproductory mechanisms don't make much sense to have been engineered and certainly don't look engineered

"Scientists" in the "Wall Street Journal" (which I guess is code for CIA disinformation agents) have also told us Saddam had nukes

I would think its not so easy to catch and eat a bat. Those racoon dogs must be so OP  

happy to be educated though. Always learnin  The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3 - Page 31 Victory-hand_270cThe Coronavirus Thread - Part 3 - Page 31 Victory-hand_270c


wasn't meant to sound smug if that's what it did

it just happened that I had read this extensive interview shortly before and he explicitly debunks the theory, or rather explicitly says why he believes it's implausible, that the virus is lab-made. (and I consider this guy a very credible person, surely the most credible on this issue)

The part about the raccoon dogs is just what he considers a possibly plausible way of infection/jump to humans. He doesn't say he's 100% certain but it's what he believes to be most likely. I.e., it could have happened that way.
These pelt farms are like mass factories in China, these dogs are also cought from the wild (where they indeed do eat bats) and then there's massive factories where they are slaughtered by men in close contact for the pelt.


The part about the genetic structure and features, which I can't really replicate here, is what convinced me the most, he says that if HE were to work on a virus like that, like say take a SARS virus and increase its replicative or transmissive features experimentally, you would work on certain areas with certain properties and they would look, well, worked on, more clear-cut.
So IF someone worked on this virus, they did so incredibly randomly, chaotically, and without clear structure of editing/processing/modifying which doesn't seem like it would happen or would make sense as a scientific experimental process.

So while the lab theory is intriguing, what with the Coronvirus lab being there, reports of people being sick there, etc, in the end it might as @El Gunner says simply be a story more appealing to those of us who like the idea of hidden truth more than they like plain borings truths.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:36 pm

We all have different views on this whole ordeal but the only thing I wanted to say is that from my circle the only ones who didn't take the vaccine are people who I always considered to be imbeciles (way before the pandemic). Make of that what you will.....suddenly the MAGA types are somehow smart? Highly doubtful.

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Post by Myesyats Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:47 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:


Really? Just read an interview with Germany's leading covid expoert Drosten and he says he assumes the jump to humans originated from Chinese fur farms where raccoon dogs, who eat bats in the wild, are caught and killed in close contact with humans, with their death cries creating aerosols

He said that the virus' chaotic genetic structure and properties regarding reproductory mechanisms don't make much sense to have been engineered and certainly don't look engineered

"Scientists" in the "Wall Street Journal" (which I guess is code for CIA disinformation agents) have also told us Saddam had nukes

I would think its not so easy to catch and eat a bat. Those racoon dogs must be so OP  

happy to be educated though. Always learnin  The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3 - Page 31 Victory-hand_270cThe Coronavirus Thread - Part 3 - Page 31 Victory-hand_270c


wasn't meant to sound smug if that's what it did

it just happened that I had read this extensive interview shortly before and he explicitly debunks the theory, or rather explicitly says why he believes it's implausible, that the virus is lab-made. (and I consider this guy a very credible person, surely the most credible on this issue)

The part about the raccoon dogs is just what he considers a possibly plausible way of infection/jump to humans. He doesn't say he's 100% certain but it's what he believes to be most likely. I.e., it could have happened that way.
These pelt farms are like mass factories in China, these dogs are also cought from the wild (where they indeed do eat bats) and then there's massive factories where they are slaughtered by men in close contact for the pelt.


The part about the genetic structure and features, which I can't really replicate here, is what convinced me the most, he says that if HE were to work on a virus like that, like say take a SARS virus and increase its replicative or transmissive features experimentally, you would work on certain areas with certain properties and they would look, well, worked on, more clear-cut.
So IF someone worked on this virus, they did so incredibly randomly, chaotically, and without clear structure of editing/processing/modifying which doesn't seem like it would happen or would make sense as a scientific experimental process.

So while the lab theory is intriguing, what with the Coronvirus lab being there, reports of people being sick there, etc, in the end it might as @El Gunner says simply be a story more appealing to those of us who like the idea of hidden truth more than they like plain borings truths.

Didnt think you were smug or anything man, i think you always are quite respectful in your responses frankly. And this theory made by your native virologist seems very plausible indeed. THey ought to ban these freaking oriential wild farms or something. These people are outta control

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Post by rincon Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:51 pm

@BarcaLearning wrote:
@RealGunner wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:I got Pfizer today

Not  took a selfie as most of ppl but yet I feel vaccine is working. What a time to be alive


i can connect myself to 5G after my first dose. Mine is working too


Lol whats with these, superstitions or jokes?

Man, on idea why I only came to this section now, like over year into the pandemic...

Jokes
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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:42 pm

@Myesyats wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:

I would think its not so easy to catch and eat a bat. Those racoon dogs must be so OP  

happy to be educated though. Always learnin  The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3 - Page 31 Victory-hand_270cThe Coronavirus Thread - Part 3 - Page 31 Victory-hand_270c


wasn't meant to sound smug if that's what it did

it just happened that I had read this extensive interview shortly before and he explicitly debunks the theory, or rather explicitly says why he believes it's implausible, that the virus is lab-made. (and I consider this guy a very credible person, surely the most credible on this issue)

The part about the raccoon dogs is just what he considers a possibly plausible way of infection/jump to humans. He doesn't say he's 100% certain but it's what he believes to be most likely. I.e., it could have happened that way.
These pelt farms are like mass factories in China, these dogs are also cought from the wild (where they indeed do eat bats) and then there's massive factories where they are slaughtered by men in close contact for the pelt.


The part about the genetic structure and features, which I can't really replicate here, is what convinced me the most, he says that if HE were to work on a virus like that, like say take a SARS virus and increase its replicative or transmissive features experimentally, you would work on certain areas with certain properties and they would look, well, worked on, more clear-cut.
So IF someone worked on this virus, they did so incredibly randomly, chaotically, and without clear structure of editing/processing/modifying which doesn't seem like it would happen or would make sense as a scientific experimental process.

So while the lab theory is intriguing, what with the Coronvirus lab being there, reports of people being sick there, etc, in the end it might as @El Gunner says simply be a story more appealing to those of us who like the idea of hidden truth more than they like plain borings truths.

Didnt think you were smug or anything man, i think you always are quite respectful in your responses frankly. And this theory made by your native virologist seems very plausible indeed. THey ought to ban these freaking oriential wild farms or something. These people are outta control


wiki says that an estimated 1.5 million raccoon dogs are farmed at any time in China for their fur
not just China though...
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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:33 pm

@The Franchise wrote:
@BarcaLearning wrote:Whats the rules here like? Razz Can I be direct in talking politics? Just Fyi, Im pretty western influenced view on things and do not like most things local lol, especially the gov, and Im not paid agent of the gov or anything like that lol... Actually its getting to a point where I really feel its too much. Im guessing a lot of ppl would be anti China nowadays for obvious reasons?

Can I just start also asking how everyone thinks of the origin of the virus? Obviously Wuhan wet market or the lab and all, but some odd reports where traces of it was found in some place weeks or even months b4 the outbreak in Wuhan?

I think people anti-Chinese is very wrong.

It is not the fault of the Chinese people regardless of how it came about.

The Chinese gov, I think its perfectly fine to have alot of suspicion about their motivations. Especially as the lab is acting in a very non-transparent way. Just not the way an innocent party acts.

I think its pretty safe to say, this is a lab leak one way or the other. I think speculating about how or why is too far.

My problem is not really that it probably came from the lab, my problem is that all these platforms shut down conversation immediately by removing anyone who simply questioned the wet market narrative. That to me got my radar up. If you think someone is spreading misinformation, you counter it by proving it wrong and having the discussion. Instead all we saw, channels and pages banned, taken down and removed and anyone who brought up "lab leak" was a fan of Trump or some tin foil hat wearing lunatic.

Surely the best way to avoid this situation moving forward is to conclusively figure out the origins of this? It seems alot to me like the people in charge have no genuine interest in that.




























Yea, I actually think ppl should be more angry with China than they are actually in lot of ways lol, I mean since all the things that can be seen shows the outbreak at least initially came from Wuhan, be it the wet market with all those exotic animals that ppl eat ffs (although same with quite many of the poorer SEA countries for example, or the lab, then the way the gov always tries to silents everything, the fact that nothing is transparent adds to it, and then the WHO took a year to come to investigate was just funny. Anyway, it seems we will just never know. The only things I have doubts are those odds reports of evidence of the virus elsewhere in the world months prior to the Wuhan outbreak, if any of those are proved one day, that would be huge, but I doubt its able to be done anymore.

I read up the first Sars in 2003 or so though seems they concluded it came from China as well, so yea I say I completely with ppl who would be angry. The gov sadly just never deals with anything negative about them that openly and resorts to the old techniques of silently 'rumours' and issue their old official monologues lol... one thing thats improved though definitely is the huge improvement in hygiene and awareness in general for the population.
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Post by El Gunner Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:49 pm

Hans wrote:So while the lab theory is intriguing, what with the Coronvirus lab being there, reports of people being sick there, etc, in the end it might as @El Gunner says simply be a story more appealing to those of us who like the idea of hidden truth more than they like plain borings truths.
just to be clear, i didn't try to insinuate that "plain boring truths" are truer than "hidden truths"
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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:45 pm

@El Gunner wrote:
Hans wrote:So while the lab theory is intriguing, what with the Coronvirus lab being there, reports of people being sick there, etc, in the end it might as @El Gunner says simply be a story more appealing to those of us who like the idea of hidden truth more than they like plain borings truths.
just to be clear, i didn't try to insinuate that "plain boring truths" are truer than "hidden truths"


I know you didn't
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Post by El Gunner Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:05 pm

my German buddy, you know me best Thumbs up
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Post by VivaStPauli Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:51 pm

@BarcaLearning
The BioNTech vaccine is developed by BioNTech in Mainz, Germany, but the company is owned by American pharma company Pfizer who paid for much of the research & development, and it is AFAIK produced in Pfizer-owned factories in multiple countries, so it's made in Germany, and the US, at the very least.

Distribution is difficult and demand outstrips supply, so for example I got Moderna, even though I live about 60km away from Mainz, where the BioNTech vaccine was developed.

...

As for where the virus came from, I think coronaviruses mutate all the time, so I think it probably developed in bats, and some other animal ate a bat, and then a human ate the other animal, or got bitten by it, or lived in close proximity to it.
I do not think it came from a lab, and from what I read many serious virologists also don't think that.
I am very suspicious that we probably got warned too late because the Chinese authorities tried to cover it up, but I don't think they made it. They just tried to save face, and it backfired.
But I don't actually know, and I won't pretend anything is certain until there's scientific consensus.
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Post by Babun Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:34 am

The spread of the delta variant is concerning:
https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-50-of-delta-variant-cases-vaccinated-severe-2021-6

That one also mutated to delta plus Variant:
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/25/health/delta-plus-variant-explainer-intl-hnk-scn/index.html
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