Lucas asked about Ronaldo

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Steamrolled the whole competition? 98 he steamrolled the whole competition.....

In 2002 he was totally different player he hardly destroyed anyone he used his intelligence and movement and predatory instincts.......

Rivaldo was just as key in that tournament as Ronaldo was.

And i dont think anyone argued that Messi's best was better than R9's best just that hes accomplished much more at club level and more consistent

And no one can argue that, everyone knows if Ronaldo tried he could have been better than Pele and no one would have argued it.

What was amazing about Ronaldo that as good as he was i will always look back on his career and think you could have been so much more.

8 goals in one tournament and both goals in the final isn't destroying?

Lucas had ill intentions...now everyone if fighting about Messi vs R9 because of his answer

kiranr wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:

47 goals in 49 games for Barca as a 20 year old. Playing with a team that was so far off the WC+Euros winning team that is catering to Messis needs that it's not even funny.

This Barcelona team is not catering to Messi. Messi is catering to it.

People keep saying without Messi, this team would be nothing. And then, they turn around and say Messi is hugely benefited by his team. You can't have it both ways.

As far as i am concerned, Messi's pitch impact is greater than Ronaldo's.

If Ronaldos lack of titles can't be excused by the fact that he played for none-great club teams (Inter was meh and Ronaldo was out injured for 3 years, Real Madrid was falling apart at the time he joined, or the summer after) then Messis lack of national team success can't be excused either. You can't have it both way.

Ganso wrote:Lucas had ill intentions...now everyone if fighting about Messi vs R9 because of his answer

LOL there is no fight. Messi is better, and is doing spectacular things week in week out.

aford92 wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Steamrolled the whole competition? 98 he steamrolled the whole competition.....

In 2002 he was totally different player he hardly destroyed anyone he used his intelligence and movement and predatory instincts.......

Rivaldo was just as key in that tournament as Ronaldo was.

And i dont think anyone argued that Messi's best was better than R9's best just that hes accomplished much more at club level and more consistent

And no one can argue that, everyone knows if Ronaldo tried he could have been better than Pele and no one would have argued it.

What was amazing about Ronaldo that as good as he was i will always look back on his career and think you could have been so much more.

8 goals in one tournament and both goals in the final isn't destroying?

You have to look at each goal to decide whether its " destroying" or not most of his goals in 2002 were typical finisher goals and not really goals he created himself.......

I dont want to be misquoted here he was fantastic in 2002 but to me in 98 he was better in general play he basically dragged Brazil to the final in 98 by himself in 2002 he was what they call in Italy a "paintbrush striker"

He was the one at the end of the moves that that great front 3 produced but he didnt destroy teams by himself like he did in 98.....

Rivaldo to me was just as important to Brazil's success in 02 as R9 was.

This was the real Ronaldo for Brazil.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

aford92 wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Steamrolled the whole competition? 98 he steamrolled the whole competition.....

In 2002 he was totally different player he hardly destroyed anyone he used his intelligence and movement and predatory instincts.......

Rivaldo was just as key in that tournament as Ronaldo was.

And i dont think anyone argued that Messi's best was better than R9's best just that hes accomplished much more at club level and more consistent

And no one can argue that, everyone knows if Ronaldo tried he could have been better than Pele and no one would have argued it.

What was amazing about Ronaldo that as good as he was i will always look back on his career and think you could have been so much more.

8 goals in one tournament and both goals in the final isn't destroying?

You have to look at each goal to decide whether its " destroying" or not most of his goals in 2002 were typical finisher goals and not really goals he created himself.......

I dont want to be misquoted here he was fantastic in 2002 but to me in 98 he was better in general play he basically dragged Brazil to the final in 98 by himself in 2002 he was what they call in Italy a "paintbrush striker"

He was the one at the end of the moves that that great front 3 produced but he didnt destroy teams by himself like he did in 98.....

Rivaldo to me was just as important to Brazil's success in 02 as R9 was.

Just watched his WC goals again.



And I sort of see what you're saying. Rivaldo was important but not as important R9. Just like Xavi and Iniesta are important, just not as much as Messi. The only knock on R9 is that he never won a CL, he would've if Queiroz wasn't a complete *bleep*, but nevertheless he didn't. But Messi has never won a WC, hell he's never performed at a WC. And IMO, 2 World Cups > 3 CLs.

I think R9 is better because the WC is the biggest stage in football and he is the best performed in WC history, he didn't do as well as Messi for his clubs but that's because Messi plays for one of, if not the best teams ever, even Heskey would get goals in that Barca team. Whereas the best team R9 ever played for was Madrid with Figo and Zizou. His team at Inter wasn't that great and he had an idiotic manager, his Barca team was pretty bad and he carried them.

Having 2 potentially career ending injuries (basically the same injury that Ledley King had and look what it's done to him. R9 did that twice.) coming back being the best performer ever at the biggest stage in football and having a great club scoring record despite playing for average teams (excluding the Galacticos), being the best player in the world at 20 and making Sir Bobby (R.I.P. ) question whether what he is seeing is real beats winning the CL and scoring a load of goals whilst playing for the best team ever.

jibers wrote:

aford92 wrote:

kiranr wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:You can make exactly the same argument to why R9 don't have a CL as to why Messi don't have and probably never will have a WC gold medal. While Ronaldo have 2 gold and 1 silver.

He never played in a great club team. Put prime 1996-2002 Ronaldo uninjured in the Barcelona of today...

He would actually not perform as well as Messi. Nevertheless, if Ronaldo was put in this Barcelona team he would be better than he ever was, but still not as good as Messi.

Uninjured R9 in todays Barca team would be better than Messi IMO. Better finisher, more pace, stronger, better in the air.

Based on what? In the air? because Barcelona play a lot of long balls. Messi is a better finisher. Messi is a better dribbler and messi plays more decisive passes than R9 ever did.

What ever Messi can do, prime Ronaldo could do. Add to that the fact that he just like Ronaldinho knew how to use tricks effectively thus making him even more magical to watch. And he could shoot with both his feet equally well. Dribble as well with both feet. He was taller, stronger and faster.

@ Aford

I agree with your post, i wasnt discussing who was better anyway i have no interest in that its a case of "been there done that".....

My argument was that he didnt believe he steamrolled the opposition he did in 98 but not in 2002 steamroll implies it was Ronaldo against the world when Rivaldo and Ronaldinho were very important too and helped Ronaldo immensely.

Anyway he's the greatest striker i have seen on a week by week basis but i always have the feeling as do alot of people that if he tried and stayed away from injuries he would have been so much better.

The Phenomenal one suits him.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:@ Aford

I agree with your post, i wasnt discussing who was better anyway i have no interest in that its a case of "been there done that".....

My argument was that he didnt believe he steamrolled the opposition he did in 98 but not in 2002 steamroll implies it was Ronaldo against the world when Rivaldo and Ronaldinho were very important too and helped Ronaldo immensely.

Anyway he's the greatest striker i have seen on a week by week basis but i always have the feeling as do alot of people that if he tried and stayed away from injuries he would have been so much better.

The Phenomenal one suits him.

Yeah, it's scary to think how good he would've been if he didn't get those injuries. Just like it's scary to think how good Messi will become considering he's only 24. I think both are truly amazing I just prefer R9 and probably always will.

paperbackwriter wrote:

jibers wrote:

aford92 wrote:

kiranr wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:You can make exactly the same argument to why R9 don't have a CL as to why Messi don't have and probably never will have a WC gold medal. While Ronaldo have 2 gold and 1 silver.

He never played in a great club team. Put prime 1996-2002 Ronaldo uninjured in the Barcelona of today...

He would actually not perform as well as Messi. Nevertheless, if Ronaldo was put in this Barcelona team he would be better than he ever was, but still not as good as Messi.

Uninjured R9 in todays Barca team would be better than Messi IMO. Better finisher, more pace, stronger, better in the air.

Based on what? In the air? because Barcelona play a lot of long balls. Messi is a better finisher. Messi is a better dribbler and messi plays more decisive passes than R9 ever did.

What ever Messi can do, prime Ronaldo could do. Add to that the fact that he just like Ronaldinho knew how to use tricks effectively thus making him even more magical to watch. And he could shoot with both his feet equally well. Dribble as well with both feet. He was taller, stronger and faster.

These trick you talk about might look nice but Messi has a far better dribbling sucess rate than both Ronaldo and Dinho. Messi is a better dribbler and gets through far more people than both of them. Ronaldo han't done anything that has set him apart from anyone in history has he? Messi has. Top goal scorer in Barcelonas history at 24, is oon his way to scoring 60+ goals. The Messi vs R9 srguement ended when people started comparing Messi to Maradona and CRuyff, a league R9, sadly, is not part of.

jibers wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:

jibers wrote:

aford92 wrote:

kiranr wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:You can make exactly the same argument to why R9 don't have a CL as to why Messi don't have and probably never will have a WC gold medal. While Ronaldo have 2 gold and 1 silver.

He never played in a great club team. Put prime 1996-2002 Ronaldo uninjured in the Barcelona of today...

He would actually not perform as well as Messi. Nevertheless, if Ronaldo was put in this Barcelona team he would be better than he ever was, but still not as good as Messi.

Uninjured R9 in todays Barca team would be better than Messi IMO. Better finisher, more pace, stronger, better in the air.

Based on what? In the air? because Barcelona play a lot of long balls. Messi is a better finisher. Messi is a better dribbler and messi plays more decisive passes than R9 ever did.

What ever Messi can do, prime Ronaldo could do. Add to that the fact that he just like Ronaldinho knew how to use tricks effectively thus making him even more magical to watch. And he could shoot with both his feet equally well. Dribble as well with both feet. He was taller, stronger and faster.

These trick you talk about might look nice but Messi has a far better dribbling sucess rate than both Ronaldo and Dinho. Messi is a better dribbler and gets through far more people than both of them. Ronaldo han't done anything that has set him apart from anyone in history has he? Messi has. Top goal scorer in Barcelonas history at 24, is oon his way to scoring 60+ goals. The Messi vs R9 srguement ended when people started comparing Messi to Maradona and CRuyff, a league R9, sadly, is not part of.

R9 is the top scorer of all time in the WC. Messi have scored 1 WC goal. Messi have 2 Copa America goals, Ronaldo have 13, third best of all time. Messi have 0 world cups, no silver, no bronze. Ronaldo have 2 WCs and 1 Silver. Messi have 0 Copa Americas, Ronaldo have 2...

jibers wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:

jibers wrote:

aford92 wrote:

kiranr wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:You can make exactly the same argument to why R9 don't have a CL as to why Messi don't have and probably never will have a WC gold medal. While Ronaldo have 2 gold and 1 silver.

He never played in a great club team. Put prime 1996-2002 Ronaldo uninjured in the Barcelona of today...

He would actually not perform as well as Messi. Nevertheless, if Ronaldo was put in this Barcelona team he would be better than he ever was, but still not as good as Messi.

Uninjured R9 in todays Barca team would be better than Messi IMO. Better finisher, more pace, stronger, better in the air.

Based on what? In the air? because Barcelona play a lot of long balls. Messi is a better finisher. Messi is a better dribbler and messi plays more decisive passes than R9 ever did.

What ever Messi can do, prime Ronaldo could do. Add to that the fact that he just like Ronaldinho knew how to use tricks effectively thus making him even more magical to watch. And he could shoot with both his feet equally well. Dribble as well with both feet. He was taller, stronger and faster.

These trick you talk about might look nice but Messi has a far better dribbling sucess rate than both Ronaldo and Dinho. Messi is a better dribbler and gets through far more people than both of them. Ronaldo han't done anything that has set him apart from anyone in history has he? Messi has. Top goal scorer in Barcelonas history at 24, is oon his way to scoring 60+ goals. The Messi vs R9 srguement ended when people started comparing Messi to Maradona and CRuyff, a league R9, sadly, is not part of.

Oh god.
Top scorer in World Cup history is nothing to set him apart? Maradona, Cruyff, Pele, Messi, Van Basten, all these players have played in World Cups and R9 did better than them all despite having a knee that didn't work. The World Cup is the biggest stage in football, he is the best player in World Cup history if that doesn't grant him access to that mythical league of top players then nobody deserves to be in it.

Messi broke R9's Barca record whilst playing for the best Barca team ever, I'm not trying to downplay his accomplishments because they are amazing but any professional striker, yes, even Heskey could score in that team, the service is insanse. If Messi had played in the same Barca team where there other best players were a very young Figo, Pep and Stoichkov as R9 at the age of 20 would he have gotten 47 goals in 49 games? I doubt it. Whilst Messi's is amazing you cannot deny that the fact that he plays for such a good team helps him hugely.

Why are you comparing the amount of goals they scored when Messi played AM in the WC? Apples to oranges. His responsibility was to create play, and he excelled at this, that even Del Bosque chose him as his best player of the tournament...

Also I don't get the "Barca service is insane, anyone could score". Do you even watch Barca? You speak as if all he scores are tap ins my uncle Javier could score, when he actually manages to do something mouth-dropping every 2 games. I've always said the difference between Messi and other goalscorers is not how much he scores but how he scores them.

Even playing am he should have performed better IMO.2 goals in Wcs while being one of the best players in history is way too little of an achievement

aford92 wrote:

jibers wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:

jibers wrote:

aford92 wrote:

kiranr wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:You can make exactly the same argument to why R9 don't have a CL as to why Messi don't have and probably never will have a WC gold medal. While Ronaldo have 2 gold and 1 silver.

He never played in a great club team. Put prime 1996-2002 Ronaldo uninjured in the Barcelona of today...

He would actually not perform as well as Messi. Nevertheless, if Ronaldo was put in this Barcelona team he would be better than he ever was, but still not as good as Messi.

Uninjured R9 in todays Barca team would be better than Messi IMO. Better finisher, more pace, stronger, better in the air.

Based on what? In the air? because Barcelona play a lot of long balls. Messi is a better finisher. Messi is a better dribbler and messi plays more decisive passes than R9 ever did.

What ever Messi can do, prime Ronaldo could do. Add to that the fact that he just like Ronaldinho knew how to use tricks effectively thus making him even more magical to watch. And he could shoot with both his feet equally well. Dribble as well with both feet. He was taller, stronger and faster.

These trick you talk about might look nice but Messi has a far better dribbling sucess rate than both Ronaldo and Dinho. Messi is a better dribbler and gets through far more people than both of them. Ronaldo han't done anything that has set him apart from anyone in history has he? Messi has. Top goal scorer in Barcelonas history at 24, is oon his way to scoring 60+ goals. The Messi vs R9 srguement ended when people started comparing Messi to Maradona and CRuyff, a league R9, sadly, is not part of.

Oh god.
Top scorer in World Cup history is nothing to set him apart? Maradona, Cruyff, Pele, Messi, Van Basten, all these players have played in World Cups and R9 did better than them all despite having a knee that didn't work. The World Cup is the biggest stage in football, he is the best player in World Cup history if that doesn't grant him access to that mythical league of top players then nobody deserves to be in it.

Messi broke R9's Barca record whilst playing for the best Barca team ever, I'm not trying to downplay his accomplishments because they are amazing but any professional striker, yes, even Heskey could score in that team, the service is insanse. If Messi had played in the same Barca team where there other best players were a very young Figo, Pep and Stoichkov as R9 at the age of 20 would he have gotten 47 goals in 49 games? I doubt it. Whilst Messi's is amazing you cannot deny that the fact that he plays for such a good team helps him hugely.

Well he is joint with Klose atm. So that is one thing.

Let me list MEssi, on par to break both Cl and European cup goals scored in a season. Barcas all time top scorer. 3 Balon dors in a row, most goals for Barcelona in a single season. About to break most goals in a single league season in europe. Literally.... doing well of 8 games is no where better than consistently being the far and wide best for almost 4 years in a row.

aford92 wrote:

jibers wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:

jibers wrote:

aford92 wrote:

kiranr wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:You can make exactly the same argument to why R9 don't have a CL as to why Messi don't have and probably never will have a WC gold medal. While Ronaldo have 2 gold and 1 silver.

He never played in a great club team. Put prime 1996-2002 Ronaldo uninjured in the Barcelona of today...

He would actually not perform as well as Messi. Nevertheless, if Ronaldo was put in this Barcelona team he would be better than he ever was, but still not as good as Messi.

Uninjured R9 in todays Barca team would be better than Messi IMO. Better finisher, more pace, stronger, better in the air.

Based on what? In the air? because Barcelona play a lot of long balls. Messi is a better finisher. Messi is a better dribbler and messi plays more decisive passes than R9 ever did.

What ever Messi can do, prime Ronaldo could do. Add to that the fact that he just like Ronaldinho knew how to use tricks effectively thus making him even more magical to watch. And he could shoot with both his feet equally well. Dribble as well with both feet. He was taller, stronger and faster.

These trick you talk about might look nice but Messi has a far better dribbling sucess rate than both Ronaldo and Dinho. Messi is a better dribbler and gets through far more people than both of them. Ronaldo han't done anything that has set him apart from anyone in history has he? Messi has. Top goal scorer in Barcelonas history at 24, is oon his way to scoring 60+ goals. The Messi vs R9 srguement ended when people started comparing Messi to Maradona and CRuyff, a league R9, sadly, is not part of.

Oh god.
Top scorer in World Cup history is nothing to set him apart? Maradona, Cruyff, Pele, Messi, Van Basten, all these players have played in World Cups and R9 did better than them all despite having a knee that didn't work. The World Cup is the biggest stage in football, he is the best player in World Cup history if that doesn't grant him access to that mythical league of top players then nobody deserves to be in it.

Messi broke R9's Barca record whilst playing for the best Barca team ever, I'm not trying to downplay his accomplishments because they are amazing but any professional striker, yes, even Heskey could score in that team, the service is insanse. If Messi had played in the same Barca team where there other best players were a very young Figo, Pep and Stoichkov as R9 at the age of 20 would he have gotten 47 goals in 49 games? I doubt it. Whilst Messi's is amazing you cannot deny that the fact that he plays for such a good team helps him hugely.

And R9 won the WC with a crap team? Please... the arguement works both ways. Heskey? Now I know you don't know wnaything about Barcelona. The same Barcelona where Ibra supposedkly flopped and Villa goyt his lowest goal tallyu in how many season? Lol seriously go and do your research.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Why are you comparing the amount of goals they scored when Messi played AM in the WC? Apples to oranges. His responsibility was to create play, and he excelled at this, that even Del Bosque chose him as his best player of the tournament...

Also I don't get the "Barca service is insane, anyone could score". Do you even watch Barca? You speak as if all he scores are tap ins my uncle Javier could score, when he actually manages to do something mouth-dropping every 2 games. I've always said the difference between Messi and other goalscorers is not how much he scores but how he scores them.

As I said I'm not trying to downplay his accomplishments but you cannot deny that Barca create so many chances that it's not surprising he scores so much. Not all of his goals are mazy dribbles where he beats the entire defence. Pedro, frankly, is just an above average player and look how many goals he has scored for Barca over the last few seasons, and look how many goals Tello is scoring.

Also how did he play well as a creator at the WC? He got 1 assists in 2010 and 1 goal and 1 assist in 2006. So in 2 World Cups he has 1 goal and 2 assists if a creators job is to create goals he didn't do very well. R9 on the other hand got 15 goals and 4 assists in 3 World Cups.

jibers wrote:

aford92 wrote:

jibers wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:

jibers wrote:

aford92 wrote:

kiranr wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:You can make exactly the same argument to why R9 don't have a CL as to why Messi don't have and probably never will have a WC gold medal. While Ronaldo have 2 gold and 1 silver.

He never played in a great club team. Put prime 1996-2002 Ronaldo uninjured in the Barcelona of today...

He would actually not perform as well as Messi. Nevertheless, if Ronaldo was put in this Barcelona team he would be better than he ever was, but still not as good as Messi.

Uninjured R9 in todays Barca team would be better than Messi IMO. Better finisher, more pace, stronger, better in the air.

Based on what? In the air? because Barcelona play a lot of long balls. Messi is a better finisher. Messi is a better dribbler and messi plays more decisive passes than R9 ever did.

What ever Messi can do, prime Ronaldo could do. Add to that the fact that he just like Ronaldinho knew how to use tricks effectively thus making him even more magical to watch. And he could shoot with both his feet equally well. Dribble as well with both feet. He was taller, stronger and faster.

These trick you talk about might look nice but Messi has a far better dribbling sucess rate than both Ronaldo and Dinho. Messi is a better dribbler and gets through far more people than both of them. Ronaldo han't done anything that has set him apart from anyone in history has he? Messi has. Top goal scorer in Barcelonas history at 24, is oon his way to scoring 60+ goals. The Messi vs R9 srguement ended when people started comparing Messi to Maradona and CRuyff, a league R9, sadly, is not part of.

Oh god.
Top scorer in World Cup history is nothing to set him apart? Maradona, Cruyff, Pele, Messi, Van Basten, all these players have played in World Cups and R9 did better than them all despite having a knee that didn't work. The World Cup is the biggest stage in football, he is the best player in World Cup history if that doesn't grant him access to that mythical league of top players then nobody deserves to be in it.

Messi broke R9's Barca record whilst playing for the best Barca team ever, I'm not trying to downplay his accomplishments because they are amazing but any professional striker, yes, even Heskey could score in that team, the service is insanse. If Messi had played in the same Barca team where there other best players were a very young Figo, Pep and Stoichkov as R9 at the age of 20 would he have gotten 47 goals in 49 games? I doubt it. Whilst Messi's is amazing you cannot deny that the fact that he plays for such a good team helps him hugely.

And R9 won the WC with a crap team? Please... the arguement works both ways. Heskey? Now I know you don't know wnaything about Barcelona. The same Barcelona where Ibra supposedkly flopped and Villa goyt his lowest goal tallyu in how many season? Lol seriously go and do your research.

When did I say that R9's Brazilian teams were bad? There still not as good as the Barca team that Messi plays with. I watch Barca every week, Heskey could score. Ibra didn't flop, how is 22 goals and 13 assists in 46 games in your first season flopping? Villa scored 23 goals, his lowest tally in 3 years from the WING, he had never played on the wing before in his life and still scored 23! Find me other players who plays on the wing (besides C.Ronaldo) that scored 23 goals in their first season at a new club. Especially when they have never played on the wing before.

aford92 wrote:

jibers wrote:

aford92 wrote:

jibers wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:

jibers wrote:

aford92 wrote:

kiranr wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:You can make exactly the same argument to why R9 don't have a CL as to why Messi don't have and probably never will have a WC gold medal. While Ronaldo have 2 gold and 1 silver.

He never played in a great club team. Put prime 1996-2002 Ronaldo uninjured in the Barcelona of today...

He would actually not perform as well as Messi. Nevertheless, if Ronaldo was put in this Barcelona team he would be better than he ever was, but still not as good as Messi.

Uninjured R9 in todays Barca team would be better than Messi IMO. Better finisher, more pace, stronger, better in the air.

Based on what? In the air? because Barcelona play a lot of long balls. Messi is a better finisher. Messi is a better dribbler and messi plays more decisive passes than R9 ever did.

What ever Messi can do, prime Ronaldo could do. Add to that the fact that he just like Ronaldinho knew how to use tricks effectively thus making him even more magical to watch. And he could shoot with both his feet equally well. Dribble as well with both feet. He was taller, stronger and faster.

These trick you talk about might look nice but Messi has a far better dribbling sucess rate than both Ronaldo and Dinho. Messi is a better dribbler and gets through far more people than both of them. Ronaldo han't done anything that has set him apart from anyone in history has he? Messi has. Top goal scorer in Barcelonas history at 24, is oon his way to scoring 60+ goals. The Messi vs R9 srguement ended when people started comparing Messi to Maradona and CRuyff, a league R9, sadly, is not part of.

Oh god.
Top scorer in World Cup history is nothing to set him apart? Maradona, Cruyff, Pele, Messi, Van Basten, all these players have played in World Cups and R9 did better than them all despite having a knee that didn't work. The World Cup is the biggest stage in football, he is the best player in World Cup history if that doesn't grant him access to that mythical league of top players then nobody deserves to be in it.

Messi broke R9's Barca record whilst playing for the best Barca team ever, I'm not trying to downplay his accomplishments because they are amazing but any professional striker, yes, even Heskey could score in that team, the service is insanse. If Messi had played in the same Barca team where there other best players were a very young Figo, Pep and Stoichkov as R9 at the age of 20 would he have gotten 47 goals in 49 games? I doubt it. Whilst Messi's is amazing you cannot deny that the fact that he plays for such a good team helps him hugely.

And R9 won the WC with a crap team? Please... the arguement works both ways. Heskey? Now I know you don't know wnaything about Barcelona. The same Barcelona where Ibra supposedkly flopped and Villa goyt his lowest goal tallyu in how many season? Lol seriously go and do your research.

When did I say that R9's Brazilian teams were bad? There still not as good as the Barca team that Messi plays with. I watch Barca every week, Heskey could score. Ibra didn't flop, how is 22 goals and 13 assists in 46 games in your first season flopping? Villa scored 23 goals, his lowest tally in 3 years from the WING, he had never played on the wing before in his life and still scored 23! Find me other players who plays on the wing (besides C.Ronaldo) that scored 23 goals in their first season at a new club. Especially when they have never played on the wing before.

Ibra is widely considered a flop considering he was the cf and scored like 2 goals in like 13 games before he finally left. Villa missed so many sitters. And Barcelona dont use winghers, they use inside forwards. So now you are comparuing club teams to NT? Seriously dude, most people agree that Messi is as good as Maradona. And Maradona was a level above R9. Messi over 4 years > than 8 good games R9 had in the WC.

It's not about Barcas service only... It is about the fact that Barcelona have 70% possession every game. Messi is never starved of possession, just chilling up front becoming an spectator while the opposition attack. The rythm of the game is always dominated by his team. His free role works because of it. He can take his time findding his game every game.

anyone who didnt actually WATCH R9 and is backing up his argument with wikipedia stats should seriously STFU.

paperbackwriter wrote:It's not about Barcas service only... It is about the fact that Barcelona have 70% possession every game. Messi is never starved of possession, just chilling up front becoming an spectator while the opposition attack. The rythm of the game is always dominated by his team. His free role works because of it. He can take his time findding his game every game.

LOL no other player in World football can do what Messi si doing atm. Not Even Dinho could dop what Messi is doing. This is going round in circles. Most football experts are already sayin MEssi is the best ever, a word never used for R9. When SAF says MEssi is in the league with Di Stefano, Cruyff, Pele and MAradona, you sort of stand up and take notice. R9 was a great player, but there are too many what ifs and not enough done. 1 WC, he did not play a single game in 94 and flopped in the 98 final ( dont care for the reasons, my point is at his peak, he flopped).

zizzle wrote:anyone who didnt actually WATCH R9 and is backing up his argument with wikipedia stats should seriously STFU.

This. ^^^^

jibers wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:It's not about Barcas service only... It is about the fact that Barcelona have 70% possession every game. Messi is never starved of possession, just chilling up front becoming an spectator while the opposition attack. The rythm of the game is always dominated by his team. His free role works because of it. He can take his time findding his game every game.

LOL no other player in World football can do what Messi si doing atm. Not Even Dinho could dop what Messi is doing. This is going round in circles. Most football experts are already sayin MEssi is the best ever, a word never used for R9. When SAF says MEssi is in the league with Di Stefano, Cruyff, Pele and MAradona, you sort of stand up and take notice. R9 was a great player, but there are too many what ifs and not enough done. 1 WC, he did not play a single game in 94 and flopped in the 98 final ( dont care for the reasons, my point is at his peak, he flopped).

Changing the argument? Im yet to see Messi do anything mindblowing for a full game while playing for à team with less Than 65 % possession.

jibers wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:It's not about Barcas service only... It is about the fact that Barcelona have 70% possession every game. Messi is never starved of possession, just chilling up front becoming an spectator while the opposition attack. The rythm of the game is always dominated by his team. His free role works because of it. He can take his time findding his game every game.

LOL no other player in World football can do what Messi si doing atm. Not Even Dinho could dop what Messi is doing. This is going round in circles. Most football experts are already sayin MEssi is the best ever, a word never used for R9. When SAF says MEssi is in the league with Di Stefano, Cruyff, Pele and MAradona, you sort of stand up and take notice. R9 was a great player, but there are too many what ifs and not enough done. 1 WC, he did not play a single game in 94 and flopped in the 98 final ( dont care for the reasons, my point is at his peak, he flopped).

And by the same logic no player in world football could do what R9 did at World Cups. And again, same logic, when Zidane, Benzema, Bobby Robson and Mourinho say R9 is the best player they have ever seen you take notice. Also, he literally dragged Brazil to the 98 final, fainted, went to hospital and was very ill just before it but was made to play by his sponsors, that's why he flopped.