Lucas asked about Ronaldo

Baraa992 wrote:he has 2 world cups not one (1994 & 2002) and he has a silver (1998) , and he scored 15 goals in his WC history.

compare this to that midget's WC record.

R9 didnt play a single game in 94, count that if you want. Lets count Messi club trophy cabinet shall we. Cruyff is considered the greatest by some, where is his WC? Where is Di Stefanos?

jibers wrote:

Baraa992 wrote:he has 2 world cups not one (1994 & 2002) and he has a silver (1998) , and he scored 15 goals in his WC history.

compare this to that midget's WC record.

R9 didnt play a single game in 94, count that if you want. Lets count Messi club trophy cabinet shall we. Cruyff is considered the greatest by some, where is his WC? Where is Di Stefanos?

cant compare di stefano to messi , Di stefano is better than messi IMO

call me when messi win barca 5 CLs in a row.

How the hell did I miss this thread?

Interesting points being presented I have to say.

Baraa992 wrote:

jibers wrote:

Baraa992 wrote:he has 2 world cups not one (1994 & 2002) and he has a silver (1998) , and he scored 15 goals in his WC history.

compare this to that midget's WC record.

R9 didnt play a single game in 94, count that if you want. Lets count Messi club trophy cabinet shall we. Cruyff is considered the greatest by some, where is his WC? Where is Di Stefanos?

cant compare di stefano to messi , Di stefano is better than messi IMO

call me when messi win barca 5 CLs in a row.

LOL so no WC and Di Stefano is arguably the greatest? SO If Messi wins two 3 cls in a row now what will you say?

jibers wrote:

aford92 wrote:

kiranr wrote:The main argument is the world cup which essentially boils down to comparing 2010 Argentina and 2002 Brazil.

2010 Argentina, with all the great talent, was terribly mismanaged. No matter the players in the squad, if the management is terrible, you are going to get terrible results.

As i said, when i saw Argentina playing, all i saw was players get the ball and run towards goal. No building up the play, no coordination. Even then Messi was great with majority of the plays going through him.

But when they met the first good side of the tournament, their lack of organization was on display.

Still, i do agree that Messi was not at his best, but he was not playing Ronaldo's position in the WC. Atleast he could not with no functioning midfield.

It's not just about the teams, it's about the individual performances of the 2, Ronaldo consistently stepped up when his team needed him, scored vital goals and even got a few assists. He did this in both 98 and 2002. Look how Brazil fell apart in the final in 98 when he had just been released from hospital and was ill but forced to play. They relied on him so heavily and usually he steps up and delivers, but on the one occasion he couldn't the team crumbled. Then in 2002 his goals led them to the final with some help from Ronny and Rivaldo, more so Rivaldo. But again, in the final it was him who had to step up and score both goals against an almost unbeatable Kahn, had he not stepped up when they needed him again they may well have lost another final.

Okay, so where was R9 in the CL for all his career? So He has 1 WC to his name.... Mess is performing at cdlub level the likes that have never been seen before. He will become cl all time top scorer, Barcas already top gl scorer and will hold multiple balon dor, keep clutching on to 1 WC for R9.

2 World Cups. He rarely played in the CL either due to injuries or because his team wasn't in it (PSV, Barca, Inter were in UEFA Cup which they won with him as top goalscorer and Milan due to fitness issues) He played in it for Real Madrid and was their top scorer in it twice in 4 seasons. So when he played in it he did well. Until Messi wins a WC he cannot be the greatest, that is the biggest prize. Just like you cannot be the best QB if you don't win a Superbowl, the best Boxer if you don't win a world title or the best Basket baller if you don't win a championship.

jibers wrote:

Baraa992 wrote:

jibers wrote:

Baraa992 wrote:he has 2 world cups not one (1994 & 2002) and he has a silver (1998) , and he scored 15 goals in his WC history.

compare this to that midget's WC record.

R9 didnt play a single game in 94, count that if you want. Lets count Messi club trophy cabinet shall we. Cruyff is considered the greatest by some, where is his WC? Where is Di Stefanos?

cant compare di stefano to messi , Di stefano is better than messi IMO

call me when messi win barca 5 CLs in a row.

LOL so no WC and Di Stefano is arguably the greatest? SO If Messi wins two 3 cls in a row now what will you say?

i didnt say he is the best , but he is definitely better than messi IMO

R9 flopped in 7-8 CL seasons, Messi had 1 avarage WC. not avarage i'd say a good WC, he was named top-10 players

My question to CR fanboys: Where was R9 when Barcelona, R.Madrid and Inter needed him in CL? I say CR fanboys because all people here defending R9 are CR fanboys

You see messi having bad game vs Germany in 2010, Inter in 2010. Well how many times R9 flopped in big games? more than 20 times right?

As an individual player Messi can play as a midfielder and striker. R9 was just striker. As a midfielder Messi created 80% of Argentina's goals in WC. If it was R9 he could not do this. Maximum he would do Higuain's job scoring tap-ins that created by messi. Same like tap-ins R9 scored in 2002 created by Rivaldo.

But Messi can do 2 job, he is actually Rivaldo+R9 in one package

jibers wrote:

Baraa992 wrote:he has 2 world cups not one (1994 & 2002) and he has a silver (1998) , and he scored 15 goals in his WC history.

compare this to that midget's WC record.

R9 didnt play a single game in 94, count that if you want. Lets count Messi club trophy cabinet shall we. Cruyff is considered the greatest by some, where is his WC? Where is Di Stefanos?

Jonathan Greening didn't play for United in the CL he still has a winners medal, he is still recorded as winning it. R9 has 2 World Cups. Difference is, Cruyff performed at World Cups Messi doesn't. Di Stefano is considered one of the best only be Madrid fans because he pretty much single handedly wrote name in European football history.

aford92 wrote: Until Messi wins a WC he cannot be the greatest, that is the biggest prize. Just like you cannot be the best QB if you don't win a Superbowl, the best Boxer if you don't win a world title or the best Basket baller if you don't win a championship.

One thing i can agree with you about. Oh, and i have no qualms in saying that R9 was one of the goats and both Messi and R9 could be considered at the same level.

billionmillion wrote:R9 flopped in 7-8 CL seasons, Messi had 1 avarage WC. not avarage i'd say a good WC, he was named top-10 players

My question to CR fanboys: Where was R9 when Barcelona, R.Madrid and Inter needed him in CL? I say CR fanboys because all people here defending R9 are CR fanboys

You see messi having bad game vs Germany in 2010, Inter in 2010. Well how many times R9 flopped in big games? more than 20 times right?

As an individual player Messi can play as a midfielder and striker. R9 was just striker. As a midfielder Messi created 80% of Argentina's goals in WC. If it was R9 he could not do this. Maximum he would do Higuain's job scoring tap-ins that created by messi. Same like tap-ins R9 scored in 2002 created by Rivaldo.

But Messi can do 2 job, he is actually Rivaldo+R9 in one package

Someone has not watched football very long.
This was so shocking. It's full of fallacies.

aford92 wrote:

jibers wrote:

Baraa992 wrote:he has 2 world cups not one (1994 & 2002) and he has a silver (1998) , and he scored 15 goals in his WC history.

compare this to that midget's WC record.

R9 didnt play a single game in 94, count that if you want. Lets count Messi club trophy cabinet shall we. Cruyff is considered the greatest by some, where is his WC? Where is Di Stefanos?

Jonathan Greening didn't play for United in the CL he still has a winners medal, he is still recorded as winning it. R9 has 2 World Cups. Difference is, Cruyff performed at World Cups Messi doesn't. Di Stefano is considered one of the best only be Madrid fans because he pretty much single handedly wrote name in European football history.

Only by Madrid fans? Shows how much footbal you know. In every official list of greatets players Dis stafno is always in the top 1-4 players. Both Pele, Maradona, Cruyff and SAF have said DI Stefano was the greatest. He is considered the greatest because the European Cup was created as an exghibition at first so that they could watch him play. The CL and European cup is Di Stafanos legacy.What an insult. CRuyff performed in 1 WC...1...in which his team lost, yet he is still considered the best by some.

most of barca fans started watching football in 2009,

the problem is that they always act as if they were watching football before my grandma was born.

Baraa992 wrote:most of barca fans started watching football in 2009,

the problem is that they always act as if they were watching football before my grandma was born.

Ok. Not really. Billion doesn't represent all Barca fans. Remember that.

aford92 wrote:

jibers wrote:

Baraa992 wrote:he has 2 world cups not one (1994 & 2002) and he has a silver (1998) , and he scored 15 goals in his WC history.

compare this to that midget's WC record.

R9 didnt play a single game in 94, count that if you want. Lets count Messi club trophy cabinet shall we. Cruyff is considered the greatest by some, where is his WC? Where is Di Stefanos?

Jonathan Greening didn't play for United in the CL he still has a winners medal, he is still recorded as winning it. R9 has 2 World Cups. Difference is, Cruyff performed at World Cups Messi doesn't. Di Stefano is considered one of the best only be Madrid fans because he pretty much single handedly wrote name in European football history.

only by madrid fans ?

lol what a joke!

billionmillion wrote:R9 flopped in 7-8 CL seasons, Messi had 1 avarage WC. not avarage i'd say a good WC, he was named top-10 players

My question to CR fanboys: Where was R9 when Barcelona, R.Madrid and Inter needed him in CL? I say CR fanboys because all people here defending R9 are CR fanboys

You see messi having bad game vs Germany in 2010, Inter in 2010. Well how many times R9 flopped in big games? more than 20 times right?

As an individual player Messi can play as a midfielder and striker. R9 was just striker. As a midfielder Messi created 80% of Argentina's goals in WC. If it was R9 he could not do this. Maximum he would do Higuain's job scoring tap-ins that created by messi. Same like tap-ins R9 scored in 2002 created by Rivaldo.

But Messi can do 2 job, he is actually Rivaldo+R9 in one package

I'm far from a CR7 fanboy, I think Messi is a much better player. Barca weren't in the CL when R9 was there, neither were Inter the first season and when they were the second season R9 got his first career threatening knee injury that kept him out for about a year. In the 4 seasons he played in the CL for Real he was top scorer in it twice for them, beaten the other 2 times by record CL scored Raul.

The only big game R9 flopped in was the 98 final, after getting Brazil there on his own, he was feinted, had a seizure, was taken to hospital, released and told not to play by doctors, but was made to play by sponsors.

R9 only scores tap ins? Go and watch some of his goals on YouTube alot of them are amazing goals often involving insane dribbles and displays of pace and power.

Rivaldo only got 3 assists in the 02 World Cup so how did he give Ronaldo 8 tap ins?

I don't think you watched R9 play because you talk utter nonsense.

izzy wrote:

Baraa992 wrote:most of barca fans started watching football in 2009,

the problem is that they always act as if they were watching football before my grandma was born.

Ok. Not really. Billion doesn't represent all Barca fans. Remember that.

Baraa992 wrote:

aford92 wrote:

jibers wrote:

Baraa992 wrote:he has 2 world cups not one (1994 & 2002) and he has a silver (1998) , and he scored 15 goals in his WC history.

compare this to that midget's WC record.

R9 didnt play a single game in 94, count that if you want. Lets count Messi club trophy cabinet shall we. Cruyff is considered the greatest by some, where is his WC? Where is Di Stefanos?

Jonathan Greening didn't play for United in the CL he still has a winners medal, he is still recorded as winning it. R9 has 2 World Cups. Difference is, Cruyff performed at World Cups Messi doesn't. Di Stefano is considered one of the best only be Madrid fans because he pretty much single handedly wrote name in European football history.

only by madrid fans ?

lol what a joke!

Exactly what I said, look at my comment above. Such a disgraceful comment.

jibers wrote:

aford92 wrote:

jibers wrote:

Baraa992 wrote:he has 2 world cups not one (1994 & 2002) and he has a silver (1998) , and he scored 15 goals in his WC history.

compare this to that midget's WC record.

R9 didnt play a single game in 94, count that if you want. Lets count Messi club trophy cabinet shall we. Cruyff is considered the greatest by some, where is his WC? Where is Di Stefanos?

Jonathan Greening didn't play for United in the CL he still has a winners medal, he is still recorded as winning it. R9 has 2 World Cups. Difference is, Cruyff performed at World Cups Messi doesn't. Di Stefano is considered one of the best only be Madrid fans because he pretty much single handedly wrote name in European football history.

Only by Madrid fans? Shows how much footbal you know. In every official list of greatets players Dis stafno is always in the top 1-4 players. Both Pele, Maradona, Cruyff and SAF have said DI Stefano was the greatest. He is considered the greatest because the European Cup was created as an exghibition at first so that they could watch him play. The CL and European cup is Di Stafanos legacy.What an insult. CRuyff performed in 1 WC...1...in which his team lost, yet he is still considered the best by some.

I said he's only considered the greatest ever by Madrid fans. Other fans consider him to be one of the best, just not the best.

I want to see those statistics of yours that justify that red "most" though.
should be interesting

Baraa992 wrote:

izzy wrote:

Baraa992 wrote:most of barca fans started watching football in 2009,

the problem is that they always act as if they were watching football before my grandma was born.

Ok. Not really. Billion doesn't represent all Barca fans. Remember that.

Sorry didn't see that. (whats up with my eyes today?)

But even then, It's not really most.

Prime Ronaldo vs Prime Messi.

I have my doubts over that one, I'd hazzard a guess that many would take prime Ronaldo,I've only watched videos so I'm not going to comment.

Career wise, Messi has surpassed him.

Ronaldo in my honest opinion isn't really at a level above Henry,Del Piero or Raul career wise.

Le Samourai wrote:People to this day swear to me that Di Stefano was a bona-fide poacher in the vein of Izaghi and Van Nistelrooj........

He was the first total footballer. He was everywhere. Think of a Rooney type player with Peles God given talent. The most complete attacking footballer I have ever seen.

afford92 and baraa92 you both were born in 1992 how can you watch R9 play?

I watched R9 play i was fan of him but he was not same like messi. He had only 1 great season when he was 19, but at 19 messi was better. actually at 19 every player is faster and more agile. this is 18-19 years old messi



Now Messi is not fast as he was at 19 so dont compare 24 years old messi to 19 years old ronaldo. Ronaldo also at 24 would not be same like he was at 19. Even without injuries he would loose his speed. Injury didnt decrease his speed. if did, then we can say messi also injured since 2009 because he also lost his speed

aford92 wrote:

billionmillion wrote:R9 flopped in 7-8 CL seasons, Messi had 1 avarage WC. not avarage i'd say a good WC, he was named top-10 players

My question to CR fanboys: Where was R9 when Barcelona, R.Madrid and Inter needed him in CL? I say CR fanboys because all people here defending R9 are CR fanboys

You see messi having bad game vs Germany in 2010, Inter in 2010. Well how many times R9 flopped in big games? more than 20 times right?

As an individual player Messi can play as a midfielder and striker. R9 was just striker. As a midfielder Messi created 80% of Argentina's goals in WC. If it was R9 he could not do this. Maximum he would do Higuain's job scoring tap-ins that created by messi. Same like tap-ins R9 scored in 2002 created by Rivaldo.

But Messi can do 2 job, he is actually Rivaldo+R9 in one package

I'm far from a CR7 fanboy, I think Messi is a much better player. Barca weren't in the CL when R9 was there, neither were Inter the first season and when they were the second season R9 got his first career threatening knee injury that kept him out for about a year. In the 4 seasons he played in the CL for Real he was top scorer in it twice for them, beaten the other 2 times by record CL scored Raul.

The only big game R9 flopped in was the 98 final, after getting Brazil there on his own, he was feinted, had a seizure, was taken to hospital, released and told not to play by doctors, but was made to play by sponsors.

R9 only scores tap ins? Go and watch some of his goals on YouTube alot of them are amazing goals often involving insane dribbles and displays of pace and power.

Rivaldo only got 3 assists in the 02 World Cup so how did he give Ronaldo 8 tap ins?

I don't think you watched R9 play because you talk utter nonsense.

Rivaldo was only one of great midfielders in brazil. Another ones were Ronaldinho and Kaka. Not to mention R.Carlos and Cafu. If these players were behind messi, he would break WC records

I didnt say he only scores tap-ins. i said he scored tap-ins in 2002. Which goal he created in that tournament? Messi without Rivaldo ronaldinho kaka carlos cafu created 80% of argentina's goals. Messi alone did it, he had not any top midfielder with him. If Messi played for Spain and won WC what would you say its interesting?

You would say he won because of Xavi and Iniesta, but you dont say R9 won Because of rivaldo ronaldinho carlos kaka cafu

Do you guys actually believe in some of the shit you write? Are some people that delusional? I dont even want to contribute to this discussion because I will be debating with people who probably have never seen Ronaldo play in his prime. Sad times. Its either that I am too old for this forum or the forum is far too young for me.

aford92 wrote:

jibers wrote:

aford92 wrote:

jibers wrote:

Baraa992 wrote:he has 2 world cups not one (1994 & 2002) and he has a silver (1998) , and he scored 15 goals in his WC history.

compare this to that midget's WC record.

R9 didnt play a single game in 94, count that if you want. Lets count Messi club trophy cabinet shall we. Cruyff is considered the greatest by some, where is his WC? Where is Di Stefanos?

Jonathan Greening didn't play for United in the CL he still has a winners medal, he is still recorded as winning it. R9 has 2 World Cups. Difference is, Cruyff performed at World Cups Messi doesn't. Di Stefano is considered one of the best only be Madrid fans because he pretty much single handedly wrote name in European football history.

Only by Madrid fans? Shows how much footbal you know. In every official list of greatets players Dis stafno is always in the top 1-4 players. Both Pele, Maradona, Cruyff and SAF have said DI Stefano was the greatest. He is considered the greatest because the European Cup was created as an exghibition at first so that they could watch him play. The CL and European cup is Di Stafanos legacy.What an insult. CRuyff performed in 1 WC...1...in which his team lost, yet he is still considered the best by some.

I said he's only considered the greatest ever by Madrid fans. Other fans consider him to be one of the best, just not the best.

so maradona , pele and CRUYFF are all madrid fans, because they all said that DS is the best ever.

although i dont say that DS is the best ever , Maradona and pele is definitely better IMO