Re: NFL Thread

[juventus101]

I feel terrible for Brady. His go-to-guy was running on one leg, and his best receiver dropped a 20+ yard pass that couldve won the game. He had to rely on Hernandez, whose good, but Welker had a good game but dropped thatball when it mattered and Gronk was invisible. 100% Gronk and the Patriots wouldve won that game. Branch also didnt do enough, and Ocho shouldve gotten more time on the field. Still though, Brady outclassed Eli.

As a 49ers fan my whole life, I say congrats to the Giants and their fans, but damn, they got alot of luck. Icing the cowboys kicker actually working, aaron rodgers having his worst game in years, the niners second string kick returner *bleep* up twice to basically give the giants the game, and then welker missing a catch that hed normally make 99 times out of 100. Not to mention the best tight end in the league being hurt against them. Giants are a great team, but I have to say that they got alot of luck along the way.

[RED]

Welweck dropping the ball in the 4th quarter is what caused the Patriots to lose the SB imo. They were on top at that point...smh...such a crucial and decisive mistake.

It was a quality game too.

[Sir Psycho]

Gronk & Matty Light I think.

[dmize]

Feel so utterly depressed for Robert Kraft. Anyone see him after the final siren.....you would think his team would step up for him after all he has been through

His team should of had this in the bag and they just shot themselves in the foot.

It's sad that he lost his wife, but Robert Kraft is scumbag, period.

Excuse me? Explain.

I'm sure most Pats fans remember but I'll explain

Bob Kraft when he took over as owner of the Pats, wanted a new stadium in Foxboro/Boston. They weren't giving him what he asked for, so naturally he looked elsewhere nearby. Hartford, Connecticut stepped up with the help of our governor and offered a completely publicly financed 375 million dollar waterfront stadium on the CT river(part of a 1 Billion dollar re-development). He agreed to the deal, had the press conference, and planning and development was started. Turns out he was just using us to get what he wanted in Boston. They made a new offer, he uses an opt out clause 2 days after he signed the deal, and residents like myself have to pay for it in taxes.

He could lose for the next 10 years and it wouldn't be enough for me.

[Guest]

I feel terrible for Brady. His go-to-guy was running on one leg, and his best receiver dropped a 20+ yard pass that couldve won the game. He had to rely on Hernandez, whose good, but Welker had a good game but dropped thatball when it mattered and Gronk was invisible. 100% Gronk and the Patriots wouldve won that game. Branch also didnt do enough, and Ocho shouldve gotten more time on the field. Still though, Brady outclassed Eli.

As a 49ers fan my whole life, I say congrats to the Giants and their fans, but damn, they got alot of luck. Icing the cowboys kicker actually working, aaron rodgers having his worst game in years, the niners second string kick returner *bleep* up twice to basically give the giants the game, and then welker missing a catch that hed normally make 99 times out of 100. Not to mention the best tight end in the league being hurt against them. Giants are a great team, but I have to say that they got alot of luck along the way.

That's how sports work, sometimes luck is on your side and other times it's not. I give a lot of props to the Giants, you seem to be discounting them and not really giving them much credit. Eli Manning had some big throws and Manningham came through when it mattered most. Most championship teams are going to get most of the "lucky" breaks, that shouldn't take anything away from them.

That second fumble in the 49ers game was caused by the Giants. You can blame the Packers receivers for dropping some passes, but you won't give the Giants any credit for possibly causing Rodgers to have that bad game. We can always go back and talk about the what ifs and all that, at the end of the day the Giants showed up when it mattered most and did what they had to do in order to win.

You're only as strong as your weakest link. Let the Giants enjoy their victory and give the knit-picking a break.

Post disclaimer: I'm not a Giants fan, just dislike when people feel the need to rain on a teams parade a day after they won it all.

[dmize]

As a 49ers fan my whole life, I say congrats to the Giants and their fans, but damn, they got alot of luck. Icing the cowboys kicker actually working, aaron rodgers having his worst game in years, the niners second string kick returner *bleep* up twice to basically give the giants the game, and then welker missing a catch that hed normally make 99 times out of 100. Not to mention the best tight end in the league being hurt against them. Giants are a great team, but I have to say that they got alot of luck along the way.

There was also the Cowboys drop on 3&5(I forget the reciever) that would effectively eliminated them from the playoffs this year. But I guess things like that happen with a lot of title teams. You kind of make your own luck sometimes. Giants in 2008, Asante Samuel dropped a pick on the Eli drive that would have ended it as well.

[juventus101]

Youre right that the winning team is usually alsobthe luckier team, but Gianys were excessively lucky. Im not tryingto take anything awayfrom the giants. They are truly spectacular. But that packers team was sleeping, they simply didnt showup for thatgame. They played great games against the 49ers, Cowboys, and Patriots, but the deciding factor in all thosegames was bad luck for the oppositoon. Williams first hit thr ball with his knee, which let the Giants get back into the game in thefirst place. Then he ran it in overtime when he shouldve fair caught it. Then Welker dropped a pass he wouldve caught 99 out of 100 times that wouldve won the game, not to mention Gronkowski playing on one leg. Then icing the kicker actually worked againstthe cowboys, tho credit has to go to JPP for that one. Still though, the luck they got against the 49ers and Patriots was insane. Granted, the Giants nevergave up and really are an excellent team, im just saying that while you cant discount the Giants hard work, you alsocant discount the luck they got. Great win though, but still feel terrible for Brady.

[MJ]

Feel so utterly depressed for Robert Kraft. Anyone see him after the final siren.....you would think his team would step up for him after all he has been through

His team should of had this in the bag and they just shot themselves in the foot.

It's sad that he lost his wife, but Robert Kraft is scumbag, period.

Excuse me? Explain.

I'm sure most Pats fans remember but I'll explain

Bob Kraft when he took over as owner of the Pats, wanted a new stadium in Foxboro/Boston. They weren't giving him what he asked for, so naturally he looked elsewhere nearby. Hartford, Connecticut stepped up with the help of our governor and offered a completely publicly financed 375 million dollar waterfront stadium on the CT river(part of a 1 Billion dollar re-development). He agreed to the deal, had the press conference, and planning and development was started. Turns out he was just using us to get what he wanted in Boston. They made a new offer, he uses an opt out clause 2 days after he signed the deal, and residents like myself have to pay for it in taxes.

He could lose for the next 10 years and it wouldn't be enough for me.

Ahhh, see I knew about his indecision, not the repercussions. Conneticut has to pay for what exactly in taxes?

Well, I'm just grateful he kept the Patriots in New England. Sounds douchey of him.

[Guest]

I'm not discounting their luck, I'm just not going to knit-pick them and make it seem like they didn't earn that championship. If anything it's not the Giants fault other teams couldn't close out those games and that certain players couldn't come through when it counted the most. And you still fail to acknowledge that game winning drive, that brilliant throw from Manning and catch by Manningham. All those incidents you're pointing out are isolated plays in those games, you still have to take into account what went on during all the other plays. It's not so much that the Giants got lucky, but other teams not being able to close out games and left the Giants an opportunity to win those games. If Grondkowski was so hurt perhaps he should have opted to sit out the game, these are things the Giants had nothing to do with. It's all about how you decide to look at it and it's clear to me you aren't a big fan of the Giants and you'll say anything to discredit them. I don't really care who won and at the end of the day when the Giants were presented with the opportunities, they made things happen, call it whatever you'd like.

[MJ]

Manning's clutch was brilliant, it was in '07 and it was the other night, I take nothing away from him. I do however, refuse to support the notion that the better team won, which I am comfortably within reasonable parameters of being unbiased.

[Guest]

I think the better team didn't win in '07, but it's a joke if you think the Patriots were the better team this year; there defense was atrocious and they got some lucky breaks as well. 31st in the league when it came to yards allowed and I believe 15th in he league when it came to points allowed. They didn't beat a team with a winning record up until the AFC championship game, Brady and Belichick compensated for that, but I fail to see how you think Patriots were the better team.

[MJ]

...The fact that we played better could be a contributing factor to my opinion...

We forced 3 sacks and 2 fumbles granted our run defense was sub-par. We allowed 15 points for the majority of the game, only to let them score the last 6. Our defense played fine. Not good, fine. Our offense played their asses off until the interception, Brady going 16 for 16 with 2 touchdowns.

They scored after a 1 in a million Welker drop and at the beginning with a bizarre 2 point play that led to a further 7. The fact that the Pats were resilient enough to come back from that and damn near win the game proves they were better.

I don't care about any one statistic from the season because their irrelevant come Super Bowl Sunday, we were better that game.

[Guest]

And what about the fact that Eli Manning drove his team down the field? Patriots put themselves in that situation and you claiming there resilience "damn near" proves they were the better team is hilarious. The bias in this place is incredible Brady kind of under threw Welker, granted he still should have caught it, but the fact is he didn't. You do realize playing well for a majority of any game doesn't mean anything, you have to play well for the entire four quarters.

How do statistics not matter? The Patriots had a poor defense and it was clear the 49ers defense gave the Giants more trouble. I knew going in that Manning would have an easier time moving the ball against you (Patriots) and ya had trouble stopping the run. Defense wins championship and the Giants have a better defense (in my opinion.) It's clear to me statistics do matter to some extent, but it'd be foolish to completely ignore them, as well as it'd be foolish to completely rely on them.

The only advantages I saw the Patriots having were Bellichick and Brady; but it's now clear to Manning has proven to be better when it matters most (clutch time.)

[dmize]

Feel so utterly depressed for Robert Kraft. Anyone see him after the final siren.....you would think his team would step up for him after all he has been through

His team should of had this in the bag and they just shot themselves in the foot.

It's sad that he lost his wife, but Robert Kraft is scumbag, period.

Excuse me? Explain.

I'm sure most Pats fans remember but I'll explain

Bob Kraft when he took over as owner of the Pats, wanted a new stadium in Foxboro/Boston. They weren't giving him what he asked for, so naturally he looked elsewhere nearby. Hartford, Connecticut stepped up with the help of our governor and offered a completely publicly financed 375 million dollar waterfront stadium on the CT river(part of a 1 Billion dollar re-development). He agreed to the deal, had the press conference, and planning and development was started. Turns out he was just using us to get what he wanted in Boston. They made a new offer, he uses an opt out clause 2 days after he signed the deal, and residents like myself have to pay for it in taxes.

He could lose for the next 10 years and it wouldn't be enough for me.

Ahhh, see I knew about his indecision, not the repercussions. Conneticut has to pay for what exactly in taxes?

Well, I'm just grateful he kept the Patriots in New England. Sounds douchey of him.

They started the planning and development, and if I'm not mistaken they even started construction. Which was coming out of residents taxes since it was completely publicly financed.

Long term it was probably better to keep the Pats in Foxboro, but I thought it was a douche business move to pit Boston against Connecticut in order to get what he wanted.

[MJ]

Statistically, Brady is the most clutch 4th quarter QB, he was let down by his team. If Welker had caught the ball then he'd have sealed it and this conversation wouldn't be taking place. The execution of the pass couldn't have been better. The luck could have. Yes I obviously realize that, we played better until it was unraveled in that one play. We should have sealed it in our first possession in the 4th quarter but kept giving the ball back and stopping them. In our first drive to take us within their 20, field goal range with 3 minutes to go, Welker drops a pass begging to be caught. How did the Giants' superior performance decide that? Hint, it didn't. Piss poor luck did.

You do realize you're talking to a Patriots fan after a Super Bowl loss. What do you honestly expect ffs? I'm looking at things as objectively as possible but I watched the entire game through and through and I sincerely believe that the Patriots played better and deserved to win.

The Patriots really didn't show they were one of the league's worst defenses, that's why I said stats don't matter on game day, only performance does. 2 sacks in the first half and epic pressure on Manning forced the Giants to go to the ground which they excelled at.


And why are you trying to manipulate what I said? I said Manning was clutch as usual, he shouldn't have been given the chance to be, and if it wasn't for a massive stroke of luck, then he wouldn't have. Not that mass opinion should define your own but everything I've been reading about the Super Bowl assents that the Giants were given a huge boost by fortune.

[Guest]

Statistically, Brady is the most clutch 4th quarter QB, he was let down by his team. If Welker had caught the ball then he'd have sealed it and this conversation wouldn't be taking place. The execution of the pass couldn't have been better. The luck could have. Yes I obviously realize that, we played better until it was unraveled in that one play. We should have sealed it in our first possession in the 4th quarter but kept giving the ball back and stopping them. In our first drive to take us within their 20, field goal range with 3 minutes to go, Welker drops a pass begging to be caught. How did the Giants' superior performance decide that? Hint, it didn't. Piss poor luck did.

You're telling me that execution couldn't have been better? It wasn't a bad throw by any means, but it forced Welker to adjust his position; if the the execution was perfect Welker wouldn't have been forced to adjust and he would have caught it in stride.

I don't really care if you're a Patriots fan or not, shouldn't have anything to do with how you analyze the game. You might have played better, but your team shot themselves in the foot and you have nobody to blame but them. Now you're telling me that your team dropping passes has something to do with luck? That's a joke, your team didn't close out the game and you're telling me that comes down to luck. All I keep hearing from you is should have, would have, could have. Maybe you should come back to this thread when you've gotten over the loss.

All of a sudden you're bringing statistics into this debate. Funny how in your last post you chose to discount statistics.

This is the definition of prefect execution, notice how Manning leads Manningham.

[MJ]

I brought up statistics because you'd seemed to adhere to them before. Appreciate all the colors btw. My inferior mind would have been lost without them.

I really don't see what you're trying to force down my throat. The ball. Was. Right. In. His. Hands.

Thank you for admitting we played better. That's what I think and I've re-watched the highlights repeatedly, so my opinion is firm. I couldn't care less about the foot-shooting. It was crap luck. The fact that you think the Patriots were outplayed is hysterical.

Come back to this thread when you're less condescending and patronizing. You could afford to treat people with respect, can't have a mature discussion without it.

[dmize]

Brady's definitely not the best 4th quarter QB. In fact his QBRating goes down in the 4th, and it goes down when he trails in a game. Something like 97, 97, 98 and 91 in the 4th quarter.

IMO the Pats team of last year was better than this one(strictly because their D was a little better). And any time a team beats you not once, but twice in one year, it's really hard to say you're the better team when the Pats had chances to prove that but couldn't.

[MJ]

Nah, I saw something in game saying he was. Since it was 5 am here at the time, I forget which yeah, reduces the legitimacy of my claim but just putting it out there. Done talking about it anyway. I'd like a rematch with a more talented wide receiver corp and defense thank you very much.

[dmize]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5228/situational?year=career

It's laid out right there..

and in the 2min drill his QBR drops even more(1st or 2nd half).

Verse someone like Rodgers: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7200/situational;_ylt=AuxO3y9NszW22uJjyxmeH7P.uLYF?year=career

His QBR goes down in the 4th as well, but it's still 97, higher than Brady's 91.8.

EDIT: Eli: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6760/situational;_ylt=AuxO3y9NszW22uJjyxmeH7P.uLYF?year=career

Not as high as Brady or Rodgers, but he's the only one of the 3 who has his QBR GO UP as the game goes on, where it peaks in the 4th quarter.

[Guest]

I said your team might have played better and laugh out loud at you watching highlights to see who played better. Giants dominated the first half and had the ball 19 minutes (your defense couldn't stop them.) You seem to be knit-picking a select few plays (granted they could have changed the game) mind you the key word is COULD HAVE. But knowing you, you'll just blame it on bad luck.

Athletes shouldn't blame mistakes on good luck or bad luck, it's up to them to make those plays. The difference between good teams and great teams is the ability to make those plays when the game is on the line.

You claimed the execution of the pass couldn't have been better, I say if he lead Welker that play could have been a touchdown. I didn't tell you to say the execution of that pass couldn't have been better, it clearly could have and you seem to be in denial. I already admitted that Welker should have made that catch, but you can't place all the blame on him as he was forced to readjust to the pass.

I respect people who can have a decent argument and don't blame there teams loss on bad luck.

Nah, I saw something in game saying he was. Since it was 5 am here at the time, I forget which yeah, reduces the legitimacy of my claim but just putting it out there. Done talking about it anyway. I'd like a rematch with a more talented wide receiver corp and defense thank you very much.

You had that game in '07 and your team still failed to come through, I guess that one was also probably due to bad luck (maybe you would've won if Plaxico had shot himself in the leg earlier.)

And you really should stay by your team through the good times and the bad, that team is the reason you were in the super bowl to begin with

[dmize]

Yeah I heard that on 1st Take. They go the Patriots need more playmakers someone who can stretch the field. I was like "You mean like in '08 when they had Randy Moss?"

[MJ]

I said your team might have played better and laugh out loud at you watching highlights to see who played better. Giants dominated the first half and had the ball 19 minutes (your defense couldn't stop them.) You seem to be knit-picking a select few plays (granted they could have changed the game) mind you the key word is COULD HAVE. But knowing you, you'll just blame it on bad luck.

Athletes shouldn't blame mistakes on good luck or bad luck, it's up to them to make those plays. The difference between good teams and great teams is the ability to make those plays when the game is on the line.

Damn son, you really milked my blame of luck for what it was worth and beyond. I stand by my word. The ball was in Wes Welker's hands. A ball he would never drop. The Super Bowl ball. And he dropped it. It was in his hands, you blaming Brady makes me laugh because Welker had dropped 5 that entire year and this one wasn't one he had to turn back to try and grab. He made a fine jump and had it in his hands. Something so infinitesimally improbable of happening happened and you want to blame it on the Patriots' inability to 'close out games'. Please.

I respect people who can have a decent argument and don't blame there teams loss on bad luck.


You had that game in '07 and your team still failed to come through, I guess that one was also probably due to bad luck (maybe you would've won if Plaxico had shot himself in the leg earlier.)

And you really should stay by your team through the good times and the bad, that team is the reason you were in the super bowl to begin with

Yeah, forgot. No such thing as luck. The better team always wins. Congrats Tetra, you've proven me wrong with your douchey berating of everything I say, regardless of whether I could be agreeing with you or not lmao.

That one was a crappy performance we were shut down because the Giants actually had a defense back then, but your hilarious encapsulation of my obviously solely fanboy mentality makes me like you even more. And really, seeing as you don't know me, don't question my support of the Pats. I was highlighting things I saw necessary to winning another Super Bowl.

They didn't beat a team with a winning record up until the AFC
championship game

So should I support them because they made it to the Super Bowl or discredit them because it was so easily done?


I find it extremely douchey of you to knit pick everything I said and force me into an argument, I was very open to Manning having been more clutch and everything but stating that I'd be sticking to the premise that the Pats were a better team. You refused that and had to stamp your opinion so your take on the game would be known and not only that, challenge everything I said. Seems like you look for ways to get people to like and respect you less and less. Very uncool.

[dmize]

lol, wtf?

it was nice seeing the Pats lose, but now the realization that I'm still a Jet fan has set back in

Edit: This was also nice http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/maria-menounos-wears-giants-bikini-times-square-patriots-153333264.html

[Guest]

My man, I'm just doing the same thing you are, putting my opinion out there.

I never said I blamed Brady, I just claimed the pass wasn't perfect and I believe I said that Welker is supposed to make that catch.

I seriously think you need to clear your head and come back when you're no so angry about your team dropping the ball (literally.)

Am I not allowed to have my own opinion and get upset at people who are trying to take away most (if not all) the credit away from the Giants. How did I force you into anything? It was your choice to respond to my post and it was my choice to counter it.

To be honest, the old me cared way too much what others thought about me; these days I just put my thoughts and feelings out there. It seems you can't handle that and if you decide not to like me, that's on you. There are posters that I get along with and we don't always agree on everything; you do know it's healthy to debate and it's ok to disagree.

Another poster and I actually disagreed on that particular Welker drop (not going to name any names) and we had a very nice debate about it. I came out of that a more knowledgeable football fan because I'm open to learning new things. Ended up watching the play over and over again and I still say the throw wasn't perfect, that's just MY opinion (get over it.) It's not me intention to make people not respect be, but I'm also not going to walk on eggshells when I believe in something.

Don't really know where I said there was no such thing as luck, I just don't agree that dropped passes come down to luck. Once again, that's just my opinion, not trying to pass off my thoughts as fact. For the record, I do believe in luck (good and bad.)

[juventus101]

Brady was superior to Eli in this game by far. A 1 in a million drop from Wes Welker is the main reason the Giants won. A stupid mistake by a 2nd string kick returner (3rd string receiver) got the Giants past the 49ers. And icing the kicker actually working got them past the cowboys. Eli and the Giants were incredible, truly a great team. But without these lucky breaks, they wouldnt have even been in the Super Bowl, much less win it. Though I do thinj you cant take it away fromthem because everyone gets lucky or unlucky at times so they did deserve it, but these lucky breaks also cant be discounted. And Brady completely outplayed Eli in the final.

Btw, I dont have a problem with the Giants. I dont like them, but I also dont hate them, theyre just "whatever" for me. But I do hate how overrated Eli Manning is, especially by some Giants fans I know.

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