Re: Is Lionel Messi Over Glorified?

by Onyx Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:59 pm

Doesn't really matter what his heading is like. Barca don't play hoof ball or use crosses all the time.

In terms of consistency and all the others his the best in the World at them.

Ronaldo wouldn't be able to do what Messi does because he doesn't have much creativity.

However he still is the 2nd best player in the World.

by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:59 pm

dnmac4 wrote:This thread is so stupid. It's basically two or three Madrid fans trying to come up with any kind of reason to discredit Messi.

Madrid fans should be the last group of fans to question Messi's skills. You have seen him be great more then any other group of fans and go head to head with the next best player in the world, his main competition and absolutley roast him.

Please let me see where anyone says Messi is the best footballer ever, because what I am reading ALMOST EVERYONE is saying he's the best in the world. Thats not debatable, try if you want but you just make yourself look ignorant.

It's pretty safe to say if he keeps this pace up for 6-8 more years he could be the best player ever. You people act like these other great players played for bad teams and just carried them on there back, it's not true the Arsenal's, Milan's, Juve's, Ajax, Real Madrid's of the past were great great teams.

Other players have come into Barca's system and not been successful. Ibra, Hleb, Villa(to an extent), Bojan, lots of defenders, Henry, Dos santos, I could go on and on. You are acting like if you just put on a Barca shirt you can be as good as Messi, that is not the case. Some of these players are good for Barca but Messi's level is just way above anyone else who plays for them.

As for Argentina, there are scores of world class players on that team and they ALL play under there club level for this national team. Kun Aguero, Tevez, Higuian, Di Maria, Mascherano, Pastore, Cambiasso, Zanetti etc etc. There is obviously something wrong with the structure of the team, it's not just a big coincidence that ALL of these players are world class for there club teams and can't re-create it for Argentina, Messi is the only one who gets crushed for it.

Messi has 2 -3 more World Cups in him, so anyone acting like he will never win one is just hating. He could never win one but I would think in the next 10-12 years Argentina will get it figured out and I wouldn't bet against Messi. Haters just say it now because it's the last straw they can point to in there quest to discredit Messi.

add this guy the list too messi.

has first sentence says my thread is stupid based on that im hating, and the last sentence as well, and in the middle nothing new or worthy of discussion, just la la la try to defend messi from nothing because i never even attacked him.

you talk about the world cup, and about the cls is that all youre gonna judge him by?

by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:04 pm

jibers wrote:
The Madrid One wrote:as an individual messi is imo the best player in the world when hes with the right people, his decision making, and the fact that hes always there to make a difference make him a perfect asset to any team that can back him up.

but dont say that a whole team won because of him, its the other way around, but people build a complex on messi and decide hes something more than just a great world class player..

TMO thsi is where I disagree. Barcelona would not be where they are without Messi. They are intergral. Barcas recent success for me is down to

A. Guardiola
B. Messi.
C. Xavi

Look how many times Messi has saved them. Even in that season when they came third and won nothing he was carrying Barcelona dn when he got injured they did nothing. The truth is, Messi is the only player in the last four years that has been compared to the all time greats, and I think it's down to lack of outstanding footballers and competition. Messi has Ronaldo to deal with, and he is several levels above him. Xavi is his team mate and he overshadows him. Zidane, R9, Figo, Baggio, Laudrup, Davids, Scholes, Henry, Figo, Giggs, Bergkamp, Ronaldinho. I mean, each of those payers are Fifa Baon d'or candidates. The fact that a nobody like Ozil can be called one of the ebst playes in the world after a few decen seaosns sums up my point. The reason for all this is lack of competititon. there is just no one in his league. The gap in abilities is between Messi and his peers is more than the gap between Barcelona and other European teams. That is where Messi is fortunate (if you can call it that.) There are no outstanding players playing atm. That is one of the reasons that I thnk that people glorify him so much. Zidane, Figo, R9 and Ronaldinho had themsleves and noone stood out for a while.

Do you get my point?

i think you took my post and took it a bit to extremes. I said barcelona would still win cl and everything without messi, they would, imagine your self with another world class player there instead of him.. but would he win all of that without them?

every player in the barcelona team is important, but it is obvious that messi relies more on xavi,iniesta,busquets on his whole team to give his best, its a TEAM EFFORT every piece counts.

messi is important to the team, but he depends on them, i want you to understand that, im not discrediting him but making rather common sense judgements here.

hes number 1 cause of team, which equals success, which equals untapping of potential.

he is the start of the show, but not the most important piece, hence xavi and iniesta ball on d or 0, messi 3.

he obviously makes barcelona better because individually he is the best player in the world because of his characteristics, he makes barcelona better but is not as vital as xavi and iniesta, but doesnt mean hes not important.

Jibers dont bash me for asking you to do this but put

cr7 vs messi

make a list of skill atributes and mental attributes.

how far ahead is messi for him to be glorified so much, is it because of his success his team evokes on it self and on him?

by Albiceleste Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:07 pm

It's really obvious you're just trying to discredit Messi here, football is a team game, of course every player relies on each other, Barcelona would not be the team they are today without Messi, I can say that with much conviction seeing as how many times Messi has lead the team to victory in difficult spots, no one else in the world can do what Messi has done and can do

by Dnmac4 Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:08 pm

The Madrid One wrote:
dnmac4 wrote:This thread is so stupid. It's basically two or three Madrid fans trying to come up with any kind of reason to discredit Messi.

Madrid fans should be the last group of fans to question Messi's skills. You have seen him be great more then any other group of fans and go head to head with the next best player in the world, his main competition and absolutley roast him.

Please let me see where anyone says Messi is the best footballer ever, because what I am reading ALMOST EVERYONE is saying he's the best in the world. Thats not debatable, try if you want but you just make yourself look ignorant.

It's pretty safe to say if he keeps this pace up for 6-8 more years he could be the best player ever. You people act like these other great players played for bad teams and just carried them on there back, it's not true the Arsenal's, Milan's, Juve's, Ajax, Real Madrid's of the past were great great teams.

Other players have come into Barca's system and not been successful. Ibra, Hleb, Villa(to an extent), Bojan, lots of defenders, Henry, Dos santos, I could go on and on. You are acting like if you just put on a Barca shirt you can be as good as Messi, that is not the case. Some of these players are good for Barca but Messi's level is just way above anyone else who plays for them.

As for Argentina, there are scores of world class players on that team and they ALL play under there club level for this national team. Kun Aguero, Tevez, Higuian, Di Maria, Mascherano, Pastore, Cambiasso, Zanetti etc etc. There is obviously something wrong with the structure of the team, it's not just a big coincidence that ALL of these players are world class for there club teams and can't re-create it for Argentina, Messi is the only one who gets crushed for it.

Messi has 2 -3 more World Cups in him, so anyone acting like he will never win one is just hating. He could never win one but I would think in the next 10-12 years Argentina will get it figured out and I wouldn't bet against Messi. Haters just say it now because it's the last straw they can point to in there quest to discredit Messi.
add this guy the list too messi.

has first sentence says my thread is stupid based on that im hating, and the last sentence as well, and in the middle nothing new or worthy of discussion, just la la la try to defend messi from nothing because i never even attacked him.

you talk about the world cup, and about the cls is that all youre gonna judge him by?

Dude, you have 7 pages of people disagreeing with you. Please tell us in one or two sentences what your point is? If it's Messi isn't the best player, who is? If it's he is overhyped, well everyone who is the best at what they do are, it's how the media works especially in Spain or England. If your saying he's not the best of all time, well duh, he's 24 years old I hope he's not or that would be sad. WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE? Because from where I sit you just keep throwing the same tired arguments out over and over again for 7 pages.

by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:09 pm

what have i said to discredit him? is it because i dont have him in my views as high as a god as you do? what do i do wrong for you to feel bad and uncomfortable in that way?

is it because i show him to be more human like any other player? messi is an integral part in barcelona's success because he helps the team be better because it helps him be better and thus vice versa, its a nice cyle.

HOW DO I DISCREDIT HIM?

by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:11 pm

dnmac4 wrote:
The Madrid One wrote:
dnmac4 wrote:This thread is so stupid. It's basically two or three Madrid fans trying to come up with any kind of reason to discredit Messi.

Madrid fans should be the last group of fans to question Messi's skills. You have seen him be great more then any other group of fans and go head to head with the next best player in the world, his main competition and absolutley roast him.

Please let me see where anyone says Messi is the best footballer ever, because what I am reading ALMOST EVERYONE is saying he's the best in the world. Thats not debatable, try if you want but you just make yourself look ignorant.

It's pretty safe to say if he keeps this pace up for 6-8 more years he could be the best player ever. You people act like these other great players played for bad teams and just carried them on there back, it's not true the Arsenal's, Milan's, Juve's, Ajax, Real Madrid's of the past were great great teams.

Other players have come into Barca's system and not been successful. Ibra, Hleb, Villa(to an extent), Bojan, lots of defenders, Henry, Dos santos, I could go on and on. You are acting like if you just put on a Barca shirt you can be as good as Messi, that is not the case. Some of these players are good for Barca but Messi's level is just way above anyone else who plays for them.

As for Argentina, there are scores of world class players on that team and they ALL play under there club level for this national team. Kun Aguero, Tevez, Higuian, Di Maria, Mascherano, Pastore, Cambiasso, Zanetti etc etc. There is obviously something wrong with the structure of the team, it's not just a big coincidence that ALL of these players are world class for there club teams and can't re-create it for Argentina, Messi is the only one who gets crushed for it.

Messi has 2 -3 more World Cups in him, so anyone acting like he will never win one is just hating. He could never win one but I would think in the next 10-12 years Argentina will get it figured out and I wouldn't bet against Messi. Haters just say it now because it's the last straw they can point to in there quest to discredit Messi.
add this guy the list too messi.

has first sentence says my thread is stupid based on that im hating, and the last sentence as well, and in the middle nothing new or worthy of discussion, just la la la try to defend messi from nothing because i never even attacked him.

you talk about the world cup, and about the cls is that all youre gonna judge him by?

Dude, you have 7 pages of people disagreeing with you. Please tell us in one or two sentences what your point is? If it's Messi isn't the best player, who is? If it's he is overhyped, well everyone who is the best at what they do are, it's how the media works especially in Spain or England. If your saying he's not the best of all time, well duh, he's 24 years old I hope he's not or that would be sad. WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE? Because from where I sit you just keep throwing the same tired arguments out over and over again for 7 pages.

i dont know if people cant read or its because they dont understand, if you can see the people that have replied have for the majority been barcelona fans twisting my logic and not understanding it.

hes the best player in the world and i have explained why, but also explained how he may be gloated in some ways.

media, propaganda, success will obviously make anyone looks like a hero, thats what sports does it glorifies people and makes them into famous gods..

i explained WHY hes as good as he is in barcelona, and why barcelona is as good as it is because of him, but by saying this i hope people understand what i mean when i say some make messi look as more than he is.

how do i discredit him?

you are judging him by succes mate, thats why you talk about world cups

by Albiceleste Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:13 pm

You discredit him by trying to pin his success and praise on his team mates and not him

by billionmillion Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:14 pm

LOL what a childish argument. No TMO, even Madrid and M.United fans said you are wrong. Only man fully agreed with you was Xabi:) lol. so stop being childish or i will post a naked woman

by Dnmac4 Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:15 pm

Who are you to say Barca would win the Champions league with out Messi?? You can't prove that, in fact they lost one with him. And who is making him out to be god like? We are saying he's the best in the world and could be the best ever if he keeps this pace up and wins a world cup and everyone agrees with that, football pundits, players, fans of other teams, betting parlor's as he's the odds on favorite for Balon d'or. Were just saying what everyone else is.

by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:15 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:You discredit him by trying to pin his success and praise on his team mates and not him

i am tired of repeating my self because you make me explain it to you time after time. it ends now.

you wont understand as much as i explain it to you, you want me to single him out more and more, you want me to see him as high as you do, and because im not as imaginative as you are in that aspect i turn out to be discrediting him... *Sigh*

by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:18 pm

dnmac4 wrote:Who are you to say Barca would win the Champions league with out Messi?? You can't prove that, in fact they lost one with him. And who is making him out to be god like? We are saying he's the best in the world and could be the best ever if he keeps this pace up and wins a world cup and everyone agrees with that, football pundits, players, fans of other teams, betting parlor's as he's the odds on favorite for Balon d'or. Were just saying what everyone else is.

they would, its a team effort but messi by himself didnt win 3 cls.

youre saying hes the best because of the titles barcelona wins?

henry
ronaldo

explain to me how he is superior to them even if he wins everytitle in existence as a footballer. why would he be the greatest of all time just because of the titles barcelona wins? because he had a great part in it? fair enough, but have i ever been opposed to that thinking plane? no thats why i said in the op how highly i rate him depends on the ffect he has on te game by the time he leaves. but upto this point messi has been nothing else but a part of a lucritive project, has he TAKEN THEM TO IT ALL? no, dont OVER GLORIFY HIM

if you dont answer this im ignoring you, because ive said quite enough for you guys to understand.

by billionmillion Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:24 pm

How can Messi win 3 CL by himself? he has a lot of stamina but he can not run instead of 11 players. he should try it maybe then he will prove himself to TMO.

and a m.u fan asked you a question, what xaviesta has to do with messi dribbling 3-4 players and score winning goal vs madrid?

by Dnmac4 Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:27 pm

Dude it must be a chore to be a friend or family member of yours. Wow, I've never seen someone above the age of 10 act like this. WOW. The funniest thing is no one even know's what your point is, there just stunned your keeping this up. Kudos to you, it takes a lot of effort to be this hateful.

HE's better then Henry and Ronaldo because neither of them have acomplished the individual achievements, goals and assists in a season, leading the champions league in scoring winning 2 Balon d'ors in a row and his collective achievements with his team. BTW, Henry has had a whole career what did he do at 24? As for Ronaldo, do you not watch when they play head to head?

Also, PLEASE PLEASE put me on your ignore list as I am now dumber from speaking with you.

by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:28 pm

billionmillion wrote:How can Messi win 3 CL by himself? he has a lot of stamina but he can not run instead of 11 players. he should try it maybe then he will prove himself to TMO.

and a m.u fan asked you a question, what xaviesta has to do with messi dribbling 3-4 players and score winning goal vs madrid?

you still think i said anyone can be messi, youre misinterpreting buddy, messi is a extremely talented individual but and we all know he can dribble, so what? what does that bring new to the discussion?

i never said messi wasnt the best in the world, rather i explained why he is and why people should keep his perception as nothing but that because of several reasons.

why do you care what a "17" year old has to say abot messi anyways lol according to you i know nothing, so why are you still hurtful about what i say.

incase you havnt noticed, im only repeating my self here because you barcelona fans make me, you want to find logic because you distort it yourselves.

i said all i had to say on my op, guys like zizzle and hispano understood it in one second.

guys like you who misinterpret make up 7 pages of repeating.

by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:31 pm

dnmac4 wrote:Dude it must be a chore to be a friend or family member of yours. Wow, I've never seen someone above the age of 10 act like this. WOW. The funniest thing is no one even know's what your point is, there just stunned your keeping this up. Kudos to you, it takes a lot of effort to be this hateful.

HE's better then Henry and Ronaldo because neither of them have acomplished the individual achievements, goals and assists in a season, leading the champions league in scoring winning 2 Balon d'ors in a row and his collective achievements with his team. BTW, Henry has had a whole career what did he do at 24? As for Ronaldo, do you not watch when they play head to head?

Also, PLEASE PLEASE put me on your ignore list as I am now dumber from speaking with you.

you have contributed nothing, as i said before no pettyful insults will do anything, you didnt understand but others did, you barcelona fans extended this conversation, i came here when it was 4 pages long,4 pages later and youre calling me now an idiot, lol just go, if my opinion over the internet hurts you so much then go away buddy, dont hurt yourself.

hes better than henry and ronaldo because of the trophies barcelona won. nice.

messi gives to barcelona, barcelona gives to messi, good shake of hands, its equal.and thats discreditment. get out.

im done here. i wont post until i read a constructive post or i feel like it.

i expect the fanboys to try to end this thread now with some kind of pettyful ending insult.

waste my time trying to get these barca fans to understand what they dont want to understand.. lol you lose if you want anything to win guys.

by jibers Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:35 pm

tbf TMO i don't really know what your point to ths thread.

by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:38 pm

jibers wrote:tbf TMO i don't really know what your point to ths thread.

look at the poll, is he over glorified..

he is. messi fans proved it.

all ive said here just serves as back up to the conclusions.

by billionmillion Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:39 pm

i talk about a goal by himself (only himself, no help). because its the only way to prove it to you. i need to find goals that messi scored after dribbling whole team (without help) to prove you something.lol. again the question ignored and you started to cry. ok next one is this

billionmillion wrote:
"Which great didnt have great team-mates? R9, Pele, Zidane, Cryuff which one was alone? problem is that messi has these names only in club team, but other greats had great names in national team too. well you are going to say messi also has great names in national team, but which one of them is in garrincha, rivaldo, ronaldinho, henry, viera, r.carlos, l.enriques, figo etc. level? these are team-mates that won or could win ballon dors, but in argentina squad theres only 1 man who can win ballon dor. And its Messi (pretty alone)"

this post waits response from you. there are all the answers to your 8 page questions

by Albiceleste Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:42 pm

The Madrid One wrote:
jibers wrote:tbf TMO i don't really know what your point to ths thread.
look at the poll, is he over glorified..

he is. messi fans proved it.

all ive said here just serves as back up to the conclusions.

You should know by now that the polls don't prove anything, Anelka beat Messi in a poll ffs Laughing

by billionmillion Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:44 pm

by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:46 pm

youre still here? Razz

by billionmillion Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:52 pm

Damn you are not 18 and i post adult pictures...do you know how to delete it?)

on topic No response? come on TMO ok, its normal to hate to somebody and love someone. i understand you, but next time try to hide your hate, because you are not a child anymore. grown man at 17 i was working and paying for my car