Is Lionel Messi Over Glorified?

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Is Messi Overated?

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Post by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:49 am

zizzle wrote:we'll know how good he is once he moves to Inter. you know what they say, you're unproved untill you prove yourself in Italy :coffee:
Is Lionel Messi Over Glorified? - Page 2 Jose-Mourinho-lifts-the-C-006 Razz

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Post by S Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:51 am

Where am i misinterpreting your statements ?

You are just repeating what you just said earlier..

he is the best player in the world because hes in the best team in the world that magnifies him, his team gives more to him than him to it, thats why you see the sudden difference in performance in argentina and barcelona.

why wouldnt anyone with good knowledge agree?

See you just say it again here.. Very Happy

And then again you are co-relating his success at Barca by saying Maradona carried Argentina on his shoulders which Messi at the moment is not able to do..

usually when a player wins through adversary is recognized as a golden moment, maradona proved himself by taking argentina to the world cup, messi hasnt proved he can do that. hes important to barcelona but they would still win without him.

See you say it here again.. Very Happy

And saying that Barca would still win without him is just your opinion..I just cant see Barca being the same team without Messi..

you dont agree because youre thinking im calling him crap or youre just not getting it. im saying that barca makes him better than he is,it makes him look better but also he performs better and that i think is clear and fair enough to say, but based on that some people gloat him.. whats to say any other great wouldnt do the same in a comfortable sitatuion.

Now you're putting words in my mouth.. Laughing

And is there any other platform where we can wholeheartedly judge Messi's prowess?
It will obviously would come down to taking a dig at his NT career wouldnt it ?
Only time and fate will tell whether he can do it at another club or succeed at
NT level..But atm he's not..

Anyways i'm done with this discussion..People would agree to disagree..

This precisely why i dint enter your "correct way to play football thread" cuz if someone disagrees with you it just develops into a heated argument and i for one am not interested in that.. Very Happy
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Post by zizzle Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:51 am

The Madrid One wrote:
zizzle wrote:we'll know how good he is once he moves to Inter. you know what they say, you're unproved untill you prove yourself in Italy :coffee:
Is Lionel Messi Over Glorified? - Page 2 Jose-Mourinho-lifts-the-C-006 Razz


and thats why he earned the right to be in my Avatar :coffee:
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Post by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:52 am

Giggslegend wrote:he is not overated imo. Going to win ballon d´or for a third consecutive season for a reason..

He scored 50ish goals and delivered 30ish assists during last season, wich other player in history creates nearly 100 goals during a season while being the UCL top scorer aswell.

He is the king of el classico´s with his 13 goals in 15 games against madrid (don´t think this include the supercopa) and when you watch him play its mesmerising some times.

Yes he is not a great header of the ball but his overall game is still out of this world
he would do none of that without his team as would any player. hes the best player in the planet because of barca thatss the point of the story, but some people dont understand and take it too far, thus making him overated, which i think is the most case in most people who dont know how to judge.

hes the best player in the world for various reasons.

but dont take it farther than it should be by portraying him as a god.

thats why i also brought in cr7 hes like the exact opposite of messi in the public's eyes but look at all his INDIVIDUAL TITLES but lack of team success.

top scorer in la liga and premier league and a very complete player, but the lack of team success to take him to ballon d or once again.

who ever wins titles wins ballon dor. thats obvious right
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Post by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:55 am

Surag.Blueguy wrote:Where am i misinterpreting your statements ?

You are just repeating what you just said earlier..

he is the best player in the world because hes in the best team in the world that magnifies him, his team gives more to him than him to it, thats why you see the sudden difference in performance in argentina and barcelona.

why wouldnt anyone with good knowledge agree?

See you just say it again here.. Very Happy

And then again you are co-relating his success at Barca by saying Maradona carried Argentina on his shoulders which Messi at the moment is not able to do..

usually when a player wins through adversary is recognized as a golden moment, maradona proved himself by taking argentina to the world cup, messi hasnt proved he can do that. hes important to barcelona but they would still win without him.

See you say it here again.. Very Happy

And saying that Barca would still win without him is just your opinion..I just cant see Barca being the same team without Messi..

you dont agree because youre thinking im calling him crap or youre just not getting it. im saying that barca makes him better than he is,it makes him look better but also he performs better and that i think is clear and fair enough to say, but based on that some people gloat him.. whats to say any other great wouldnt do the same in a comfortable sitatuion.

Now you're putting words in my mouth.. Laughing

And is there any other platform where we can wholeheartedly judge Messi's prowess?
It will obviously would come down to taking a dig at his NT career wouldnt it ?
Only time and fate will tell whether he can do it at another club or succeed at
NT level..But atm he's not..

Anyways i'm done with this discussion..People would agree to disagree..

This precisely why i dint enter your "correct way to play football thread" cuz if someone disagrees with you it just develops into a heated argument and i for one am not interested in that.. Very Happy
it doesnt turn into a heated argument, its just that you dont understand what im trying to say here. im not taking digs at him im making comparisons of what help him produce the football he produces. dont leave. as you are just concentrating on the fact that you think im taking digs at him. im not doing that, its just a lack of understanding between us, dont end the conversation, just understand what im saying. no player is perfect his team had a great deal to do with his success.

hes the best player in the world. i have no hidden agenda surag.

i make comparisons between club and country to look at his performance due to the players around him.. whats wrong with that buddy?
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Post by zizzle Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:02 am

i think more people would have agreed with you if you have'nt used the word "overrated". You have a point there but overrated is for guys like Crouch, abate, and rooney, but not Messi. Leo might be given more credit than he deserves, but i wouldnt call him overrated. over glorified would work better Razz
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Post by H.A. Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:03 am

The Madrid One wrote:
H.A. wrote:What bothers me is how the media inflate how good he is. Does he deserve the praise? Yes but the way its done is ridiculous no matter how you look at it. Its the reason why other good players get overlooked and overshadowed. I mean every move he makes is described as magical right? When other players do the same moves it might get noticed briefly but it mostly gets overlooked.

I think that's is why Messi won last year's ballon d'or rather than xavi or sneijder.

You see even his own team mates get overlooked because of how the media love to center the attention on messi. The media will always overlook the flaws to make this perfect image. In the world we live in they just love this perfect character, the one the creates the difference, the hero of the team.

Finally I will end it with what Platini said, players like messi are protected more these days. Messi isn't just protected by the referees but by the media and UEFA too. If they make him perfect it helps there image to put it simply, they also will also always count on him to create news even if their is no news to report.

This is no way of bashing messi but the exact opposite. You know why they won't use Ronaldo as the image of the perfect player [regardless of how good he is]? Its because Ronaldo gives this arrogant image which isn't perfect for the media.

I hope I got my point across Very Happy
perfect points. i agree, he is gloated to far.

hes the best player in the world, but some people take it farther than that in many different ways.

believe me some people in this forum who feel angry for reading the truth will attack ME for thinking that i am attacking and putting down messi.

im trying to make things more realistic...

ronaldo is just as effective with real madrid but didnt win much.. it goes far beyond skill and success at points it goes into other areas like moral and bla bla bla which blind some people.

The problem today is they are making football more than just a game but a money making machine. Ronaldo could have easily been made the image of the perfect player if the media/fifa/uefa wants to. As I said though he doesn't fit the image of the perfect player because of how he was perceived and still is perceived.

Its easier to use the same thing over and over again than invest in a new thing. It isn't just about raw talent anymore. I would just like to point out Messi with argentina as an 'example'. Trust they won't include his sub-par performances but they will just forget about it. Do you remember how they glorified his 2 or 3 game goal drought a few months ago when Villa got through a few months with no goals.

It may not make sense for some, maybe even barca, fans but trust me I'm not bashing messi or the club. He has the talent.

Heck another point that will solidify my points is how messi is making barca look perfect currently. They forgot the trouble barca went through just a few years back. All clubs have their flaws but I can case the exact opposite of barcelona, where the flaws are glorified. Its madrid, they constantly case the galactico era, they use the €300M squad. The recent events of the Super Liga can testify how Barca became the heroes and Madrid the villains when in actuality it shouldn't be perceived as such. The problem is without the hero/villain images [which many do actually believe in] it wouldn't make the clasico interesting which I personally really dislike. If you read this it isn't about what happened or how it happened but how things are perceived.

Anyway I've blabbed on quite enough, I'm sure my point has went across for those who view football from a different perspective Very Happy

I would also like to point out again I'm not bashing messi or barcelona bounce


Last edited by H.A. on Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:07 am

before i go to sleep let me just right this.

im not taking digs at messi but what has he ever done in argentina that would ever make anyone think hes the best player in the planet.

there are other players who score more for their teams make assists and are much more influential to their nt but do they base quality out of that?

the ballon d or is given to the player who gives out the best performane, no player will shine if their team doesnt help them, barcelona got better so did messi, they go hand by hand.

he goes from scoring 16 goals to scoring 38 and winning everything.

hand by hand buddies.

but sometimes people look at aspects of a player and overate them into thinking that they are better than they are. messi could do the same hes doing but not win titles lets say last season ronaldo won cl and la liga with same stats as they had last year.. he would win ballon d or.

thats why henry never won it never did quite enough, thats why xavi and iniesta didnt win it because they make messi look a bit more elevated. (sorry Sad )

Make A poll whats more important to barcelona xavi and iniesta or messi?

is messi more important to them than they are to him, xavi and iniesta are more important but arent as glamorus.

you cant put any 2 same players in that midfield but you could put cr7 in stead of messi and im sure they would still win.


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Post by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:08 am

zizzle wrote:i think more people would have agreed with you if you have'nt used the word "overrated". You have a point there but overrated is for guys like Crouch, abate, and rooney, but not Messi. Leo might be given more credit than he deserves, but i wouldnt call him overrated. over glorified would work better Razz
Over glorified would be better. And you know why? because people misinterpret the the question and think im taking digs at him. i edited the thread title.
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Post by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:12 am

H.A. wrote:
The Madrid One wrote:
H.A. wrote:What bothers me is how the media inflate how good he is. Does he deserve the praise? Yes but the way its done is ridiculous no matter how you look at it. Its the reason why other good players get overlooked and overshadowed. I mean every move he makes is described as magical right? When other players do the same moves it might get noticed briefly but it mostly gets overlooked.

I think that's is why Messi won last year's ballon d'or rather than xavi or sneijder.

You see even his own team mates get overlooked because of how the media love to center the attention on messi. The media will always overlook the flaws to make this perfect image. In the world we live in they just love this perfect character, the one the creates the difference, the hero of the team.

Finally I will end it with what Platini said, players like messi are protected more these days. Messi isn't just protected by the referees but by the media and UEFA too. If they make him perfect it helps there image to put it simply, they also will also always count on him to create news even if their is no news to report.

This is no way of bashing messi but the exact opposite. You know why they won't use Ronaldo as the image of the perfect player [regardless of how good he is]? Its because Ronaldo gives this arrogant image which isn't perfect for the media.

I hope I got my point across Very Happy
perfect points. i agree, he is gloated to far.

hes the best player in the world, but some people take it farther than that in many different ways.

believe me some people in this forum who feel angry for reading the truth will attack ME for thinking that i am attacking and putting down messi.

im trying to make things more realistic...

ronaldo is just as effective with real madrid but didnt win much.. it goes far beyond skill and success at points it goes into other areas like moral and bla bla bla which blind some people.

The problem today is they are making football more than just a game but a money making machine. Ronaldo could have easily been made the image of the perfect player if the media/fifa/uefa wants to. As I said though he doesn't fit the image of the perfect player because of how he was perceived and still is perceived.

Its easier to use the same thing over and over again than invest in a new thing. It isn't just about raw talent anymore. I would just like to point out Messi with argentina as an 'example'. Trust they won't include his sub-par performances but they will just forget about it. Do you remember how they glorified his 2 or 3 game goal drought a few months ago when Villa got through a few months with no goals.

It may not make sense for some, maybe even barca, fans but trust me I'm not bashing messi or the club. He has the talent.

Heck another point that will solidify my points is how messi is making barca look perfect currently. They forgot the trouble barca went through just a few years back. All clubs have their flaws but I can case the exact opposite of barcelona, where the flaws are glorified. Its madrid, they constantly case the galactico era, they use the €300M squad. The recent events of the Super Liga can testify how Barca became the heroes and Madrid the villains when in actuality it shouldn't be perceived as such. The problem is without the hero/villain images [which many do actually believe in] it wouldn't make the clasico interesting which I personally really dislike. If you read this it isn't about what happened or how it happened but how things are perceived.

Anyway I've blabbed on quite enough, I'm sure my point has went across for those who view football from a different perspective Very Happy

I would also like to point out again I'm not bashing messi or barcelona bounce
i agree with you. and dont stop posting your important thoughts i agree with them, they are well balanced.


the most hardest of fanboys wont understand, and there are many without naming names, and i wont point but i posted in the "is there a correct way to play football" and in this thread, the first thing was that dont take offense, just try to make meaning of what im saying.

sayonara.
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Post by S Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:17 am

So you just neg rep me for giving an opinion huh ?

And i dont get the fact you just conclude by saying people dont understand your post cuz an x or a y doesnt agree with you..I have read it again infact..

And pls if you are willing to have a civilized conversation please take that inner madrid fan out of you and speak from a neutral's perspective rather than trying to discredit people's opinion cuz someone doesnt agree with you.. Very Happy
Because thats how it seems to me..

Is he overhyped ?YES..

Is he overrated ?NO

Over-glorified?perhaps..

But still a long way to go in his career mind you.. Very Happy

And to be honest i hate both Madrid and Barca but i just gave an opinion from a neutral point of view..

And i dont think there's nothing wrong in that.. Very Happy
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Post by Nishankly Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:31 am

[quote="Magrcos"]Not suprised Ronaldo's been mentioned/quote]

Its been made a Real fan about a Barca player.
What do you expect me to say?
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Post by Giovanni10 Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:46 am

Wow...

TMO, as a fellow Real Madrid supporter; and someone who believes that you put together a decent argument sometimes:

The OP is absolute rubbish. I cannot believe you stole 5 minutes of my life analysing that. We loved you Ron "Why did you have to let that poo po poop come out of your mouth?"
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Post by rwo power Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:43 am

IMO Messi is practically unbeatable in his comfort zone at Barcelona where he is supported by players that understand him blindly. But as soon as he shows up in the national team and lacks the guys that fit perfectly with his style of play, he obviously loses much of his effectiveness as shown in his lack of goals and impact for the Argentinian team.

So this shows that he is not one who can carry a whole team on his shoulders, he needs a team to shine, unlike some of the older greats like Maradona or Pele.
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Post by kiranr Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:52 am

rwo power wrote:IMO Messi is practically unbeatable in his comfort zone at Barcelona where he is supported by players that understand him blindly. But as soon as he shows up in the national team and lacks the guys that fit perfectly with his style of play, he obviously loses much of his effectiveness as shown in his lack of goals and impact for the Argentinian team.

So this shows that he is not one who can carry a whole team on his shoulders, he needs a team to shine, unlike some of the older greats like Maradona or Pele.

The greats like Maradona and Pele has excellent defenses behind them...

I am not saying Messi is as good as them, but they did not "carry" their team like some people are saying here...
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Post by rwo power Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:18 am

kiranr wrote:The greats like Maradona and Pele has excellent defenses behind them...

I am not saying Messi is as good as them, but they did not "carry" their team like some people are saying here...
I'm more thinking of how easily Messi was closed down at the WC when Germany played Argentina. There he was easily starved of the passes he normally gets from his Barcelona team mates, too. It was not only about Maradona selecting a crap defense.


Last edited by rwo power on Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by kiranr Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:20 am

rwo power wrote:
kiranr wrote:The greats like Maradona and Pele has excellent defenses behind them...

I am not saying Messi is as good as them, but they did not "carry" their team like some people are saying here...
I'm more thinking of how easily Messi was closed down at the WC when Germany played Argentina. There he was easily starved of the passes he normally gets from his Barcelona team mates, too. It was not only about Maradona selecting a crap defense.

When you are the sole creative cog in the machinery, it becomes easy for the opposition to focus on it and stop it.

Germany managed to isolate Messi and keep him out of the game in more ways than one. That does not show Messi's weakness as much as it shows Germany's superior game plan.
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Post by xabi Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:21 am

Imagine if Messi was bougth by Juventus instead of Barca when he was young for example. And had great passion for them and did not want to leave. Italian football is pretty close to national football in pace. He would have been another Giaccerini.

I believe he is very lucky to play for this barcelona side. And Im sure there would not be a different team or time that would fit him better, ever.

He needs to win something outside of this Barcelona side, win something with your national team. Until then he is nothing else but extermly lucky.
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Post by _LMG_10_ Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:24 am

He has no "lack of impact" for the Argentine team. Without him they wouldn't even be a team.
And the lack of goals is because he's not a forward like he is at Barcelona. He creates, he doesn't score.

Messi has been carrying that incomplete team on his shoulders for years now. We all saw how hard he plays for the NT Jersey. He gives 100%, and it's a shame they can't win a trophy considering how they just need to fill in some gaps in the team. They just need a playmaker and a couple defenders.

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Post by rwo power Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:26 am

Well, I always think of 1986, when Maradona just couldn't be stopped by anyone or anything, no matter what was thrown against him. His solo run against England was totally awe inspiring. I have yet to see Messi do something like that on a national match.
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Post by ss_lazio Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:26 am

LOL hes only 17 Wink and also includes henry as an all time great! Case closed!
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Post by _LMG_10_ Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:29 am

This thread is very narrow sighted and blind. People are discrediting Messi because of Argentina's lack of success. Shows how much people know about football and how it's a team game.

Why do people talk about things they don't understand?

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Post by rwo power Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:30 am

It's not about Argentina's lack of success. IMO it is about Messi not being able to make an impact in the Argentinian team like he does at Barcelona.
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Post by S Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:38 am

I am amazed at the behaviour of some Madrid fans..

I as a neutral give an argument in Messi's favour and i become a Messi Fanboy.. Laughing

This is basically discrediting one's opinion just because i dont agree with a Madrid fan..

Not to mention the evident contradictions here..

Surag.Blueguy wrote:n conclusion:You term Messi overrated because he has a team with wonderful players around which makes his job sort of easy..
And according to you he's all but a big flop and overrated at NT level
since Argentina dont really possess a great balanced team and hence failing to live up to his reputation..

Well thats your opinion and i certainly dont agree with it..

Swagg_Johnson wrote:Yeah that's a reason why people might think he is over rated because he has an "easy job".. But the fact of the matter is, he plays in La Liga and Europe like hundreds of other players, yet there isn't anybody else that dribbles past defenders like he can and score a goal on a regular basis while making it look easily, and there isn't anybody else that can can play pin point passes as frequently as him to set up a goal.. Other player can do those things but not as much as him.. Those are INDIVIDUAL traits, what does his team have to do with it?

The Madrid One wrote: hope surag reads my post for him..

i agree here as well, individually he is the best player in the planet, but barca really highlight that to a big extent and so do other factors. messi is overated by people who think more of him than he actually is. i say we wait, hes the best player in the planet for many reasons, but some people go into other things and make other assumptions.

Blindly agreeing to his opinion because its coming from an obvious Madrid fan.. Laughing


People expect a lot from him due to the standards he has set at Barca and this may or may not be leading to his downfall at NT level cuz he is literally under pressure to replicate his Barca form..

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Post by H.A. Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:40 am

Well if you analyze it he has played all his life under one system with the same players so obviously he will have trouble adapting to another style with new teammates he hasn't played with ever.

Realistically he's just a man, not a magician, so you cannot throw him anywhere and expect magic. Again this is the medias fault, add to that the huge expectations of his fans. No one can operate properly that way.
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Post by kiranr Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:51 am

The claim which TMO seeks to examine is weak.

Maybe a handful of people have said Messi is the greatest ever. Do you need an article full of hyperbole to prove that is not the case?
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