Is Lionel Messi Over Glorified?

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Is Messi Overated?

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Post by billionmillion Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:21 pm

Lord Hispano wrote:
Hala Madrid 91 wrote:As a Madrid fan it pains me to know that indeed the best player on the planet is not playing in the house that Di Stefano built, he is the best currently simply because his consistent dominance, as good as Ronaldo is he is unable to translate individual play to the team, if Messi is playing terribly then Barca is nothing.

Meh, Spain won WC. Barca don't need Messi IMO. Xavi's the real cerbral component of Barca. (Iniesta could be the heart. Laughing)
Difference was Spain won all their games 1-0. Argentina with Messi were winning games 4-1, 3-1. and messi was not playing alongside with his club mates. Now imagine if messi was in spain squad (probably spain would win every game 4-0)

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Post by Yeezus Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:56 pm

billionmillion wrote:
Lord Hispano wrote:
Hala Madrid 91 wrote:As a Madrid fan it pains me to know that indeed the best player on the planet is not playing in the house that Di Stefano built, he is the best currently simply because his consistent dominance, as good as Ronaldo is he is unable to translate individual play to the team, if Messi is playing terribly then Barca is nothing.

Meh, Spain won WC. Barca don't need Messi IMO. Xavi's the real cerbral component of Barca. (Iniesta could be the heart. Laughing)
Difference was Spain won all their games 1-0. Argentina with Messi were winning games 4-1, 3-1. and messi was not playing alongside with his club mates. Now imagine if messi was in spain squad (probably spain would win every game 4-0)

you forgot dani alves.

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Post by The_ItalianFool Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:00 pm

After seeing him live I can safely say he is not overrated.

The only way I would consider him overrated is if someone truly believes he is the best player ever to exist. No..... not yet at least. He needs to prove it in the World Cup to get that spot.
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Post by The Verminator Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:12 pm

jiopsi wrote:
The Madrid One wrote:Ask your self is lionel messi really the greatest, most complete player ever?

he simply isnt.
Says the 17 years old.

Ray Hudson (on Messi) - "The most complete footballista I've ever seen."
Says the 56 years old.

hmm Laughing
My dad whos' 60 years old says if i put higher octane petrol in my car, my car will blow up....sometimes oldies don't know better.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:27 pm

Souness says he has seen the likes of maradonas and also have played against them, but he still rates messi higher then them

And souness doesn't chat shit.
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Post by DuringTheWar Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:37 pm

sourness is a bitter old fool to maradona, he doesnt acknowledge his talent AT ALL and always tries to downplay his achievments. Clearly got a grudge against him for some reason
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Post by The Franchise Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:39 pm

Souness might be the only UK pundit I listen to when he speaks, the only one I felt I generally agree with.

Not because of what he said about Messi, but he often speaks sense and is logical.

I find what he says intresting and its enough to further tell me, those who want to pretend Maradona is a clear cut above Messi are full of it.

Anyways, the only thing I dont like about Souness is he doesnt rate Totti...though to be fair, he does give fair reasons, but he just too harsh lol
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Post by DuringTheWar Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:46 pm

I know sourness is a decent pundit, but hes definately got some kind if personal dislike to maradona.

what do you mean clear cut? in some areas, to me, maradona is "clear cut" better, in some areas messi is arguably "clear cut" better. Overall, i prefer maradona, because of his supreme accuracy with the ball
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Post by jibers Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:50 pm

The Franchise wrote:Souness might be the only UK pundit I listen to when he speaks, the only one I felt I generally agree with.

Not because of what he said about Messi, but he often speaks sense and is logical.

I find what he says intresting and its enough to further tell me, those who want to pretend Maradona is a clear cut above Messi are full of it.

Anyways, the only thing I dont like about Souness is he doesnt rate Totti...though to be fair, he does give fair reasons, but he just too harsh lol

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Post by LeBéninois Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:52 pm

Without messi , FCB would not be the best team in the world , so he is not lucky to be a part of the best team :facepalm:

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Post by The Franchise Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:54 pm

Something funny Jib? Why not just say?
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Post by The Franchise Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:56 pm

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:I know sourness is a decent pundit, but hes definately got some kind if personal dislike to maradona.

what do you mean clear cut? in some areas, to me, maradona is "clear cut" better, in some areas messi is arguably "clear cut" better. Overall, i prefer maradona, because of his supreme accuracy with the ball

He has a dislike for Maradona for what reason?

Again forget Maradona, what reason does Souness have for saying he is better than all the others he has played against?

Clear cut...those who take insult at the very fact they are compared.
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Post by Harmonica Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:58 pm

Gerry Armstrong 57 (on Messi) - "I know what it's like to score against Barcelona, but end up losing 4-1. My first goal in Spanish league was against Barcelona. Unfortunately a certain Diego Maradona was in the side for Barcelona and he just took control and they beat us 4-1. 

Look at this little man, well, I think he's better than Maradona, I think he better than anybody I've ever seen."

Carlos Bianchi 62 - Barcelona's Lionel Messi is better than Diego Maradona and Pele

"A few days ago I did a talk for a business and a Brazilian asked me in the middle of the conference who I considered the best footballer in history, Maradona or Pele. I answered that, with all due respect to those two, right now I see Messi as superior to everyone,"

Graeme Souness 58 - "I think he might be the best player that has ever played the game, given that he's 23... He's best around, and I've played against Maradona many times, some people say that Maradona was better, but I disagree.

Ossie Ardiles 58 - “I think he’s certainly the best player of his generation. And I definitely believe not only that but he’s the best player in the history of football. To be perfectly honest, I thought I would never encounter anybody in the same league because Diego was a genius. One of the reasons I think Messi is better than Maradona and Pelé is evolution. People before say Pelé was running 5,000, 6,000 meters. Now they are running 9,000 meters. Now players eat better, train better, the pitches are better. So this is why I believe Messi is the very best ever.”

Ray Hudson 56 (on Messi) - "The most complete footballista I've ever seen."

Jose Luis Chilavert 46 - "Messi is the best, he is better than Maradona," he affirmed. "At Messi's age, Maradona had not won not even 1 percent of what Messi has won."

A lot of old people have grudges against Maradona it seems. hmm
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Post by DuringTheWar Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:08 pm

The Franchise wrote:
Diego Armando Maradona wrote:I know sourness is a decent pundit, but hes definately got some kind if personal dislike to maradona.

what do you mean clear cut? in some areas, to me, maradona is "clear cut" better, in some areas messi is arguably "clear cut" better. Overall, i prefer maradona, because of his supreme accuracy with the ball

He has a dislike for Maradona for what reason?

Again forget Maradona, what reason does Souness have for saying he is better than all the others he has played against?

Clear cut...those who take insult at the very fact they are compared.

I dont know lol, a lot of people didnt/dont like maradona because of his chaotic style and lack of sportsmanship. You can even see when souness is asked about maradona he starts scowling
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Post by The Franchise Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:10 pm

Meh, sounds like a excuse to me.

I see no reason for him to have any hate for him, he isnt going to care about lack of sportsmanship when he talking about the best players ever....I have seen him talking tons of times before and he is way more logical than that.

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Post by DuringTheWar Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:18 pm

Tbh i dont care whether he is speaking sensibly or because he doesnt like him, but he clearly doesnt like him. He even dismissed maradonas world cup performance by saying the argentina 86 world cup team was a great team, suggesting maradona had it easy.... LOL. Its common knowledge argentina was quite a modest team besides maradona, with a few other good players but nothing great.
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Post by LeBéninois Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:30 pm

rwo power wrote:It's not about Argentina's lack of success. IMO it is about Messi not being able to make an impact in the Argentinian team like he does at Barcelona.

How could messi make an impact with Argentina the way he does with FCB ?? . He has been playing there for 10 years !!
Everyone know how NT is different from Club.
messi is the " playmaker of this argentina, just watch games you will see how he is always opening space for the likes of di maria, higuain ,tevez ..
the day those will work for him will free him and then he will play as a real striker
anyways even the day he will do great with Nt you will have something to say i guess. If i'm a coach i would plan to isolate him of course like german did i WC 2010 and maradonna didn't have the answer
messi's fault ??
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Post by The Franchise Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:05 am

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:Tbh i dont care whether he is speaking sensibly or because he doesnt like him, but he clearly doesnt like him. He even dismissed maradonas world cup performance by saying the argentina 86 world cup team was a great team, suggesting maradona had it easy.... LOL. Its common knowledge argentina was quite a modest team besides maradona, with a few other good players but nothing great.

No he did not. I heard him speak of that Argentina. He said they had a good team, a round about way of saying it was no the one man team people seem to think it was.

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Post by gnrfan Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:22 am

There's too much wrong with your argument to rebut in one post, so I'll tackle a few things.
1. Your claim that messi is not as complete as ronaldo and henry is nonsense. R9 was a world class striker and i'd put his finishing and pace above messi, but messi is so much more. Over the past few seasons his vision, passing and finishing have skyrocketed. He can play as a number ten, on the wing or a forward and be world class. In particular I'd say he has become the best final ball passer in the world and has decided countless games with his assists. I'd even say that if he had better finishers around him we'd be talking laudrup level assist numbers. In all my time watching football the only ones who i'd put above him here are the great dane himself, and totti. And lets not forget, his finishing is not too shabby either(and I'd say his header is better than ronaldo's). Conclusion: R9 is a better goal scorer but messi brings more to the table. As for Henry, I love the guy and I would say he is more complete(not better) than R9, but he is no messi. Arsenal is my english team and I watched him week in-week out, but he has never reached messi's level of brilliance and decisiveness.

2. And the most tired cliche, messi plays on a great team which makes him look better. The fact is all the great players have played with good teams, and elevated them No one guy has played with scrubs and made them world beaters. (yes, even maradona's napoli had several wc players besides giordano, ferrara, careca). Would Barcelona without messi still be good? No shit, but as we saw the football of spain was a blunt, boring version of barca's tikataka. It might win you a knockout tournament(against teams who play together a few times a year) but not leagues. Messi's contribution to barca's final product is ridiculous. In the 2009/10 season he was carrying the team when iniesta was injured and xavi out of form, and just this season he's contributed to something like 60% of their goals directly. This is not even counting the moves where he made key pass that wasn't the final ball. And on top of that, in big games he is most decisive player ive ever seen. I wont bore you to death so ill just give a list of his performances this eason against "good teams."

RM: 3 goals, two assists in super copa playing a part in all goals. Brilliant assist in the league which brought barca back in when they were on the ropes. Also played a key role in cesc's goal. Game winning assist to abidal(*bleep* abidal) in cdr. Another brilliant assist to predro in second leg when barca were getting played off the park.

Valencia: Game tying assist to cesc. 4 goals in return.

Bilbao: Game tying goal at the death.

Malaga: Hattrick.

Levante: Double or hattrick.

Atletico: Hattrick in first round, game winning goal in return( as well as big part in first goal).

Milan: Individual brilliance busted open Milan's bunker after Pato's goal. Laser pass for game winner in 2nd leg(as well as good play for 1st goal).

If it was anyone else I'd say the praise is a bit too much but messi deserves it. I've seen ronaldo for barca and inter, pre injury del piero, henry for arsenal, and ronaldinho as well, but no one brings it in big games as consistently. He is a phenom
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Post by The Madrid One Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:06 am

Beautiful, 11 pages of pure ludacris ahaha i created some wonderful pieces back in the hayday...



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Post by Tigole Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:57 am


I agree with the article to a certain extent, and to me Messi is still the best player in his position.

Messi has been fundamental to Barcelona's success and deserves praise, but not everything is as it seems though. Imo Messi is lucky to have Iniesta and Xavi beside him, and the aforementioned two are lucky to have Messi beside them. Messi with Iniesta and Xavi is certainly godlike, but sooner or later the fairy tail is going to end for Messi. He will have to show everyone that he can cope without his extremely talented midfield.

I guess time will tell...
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Post by Lord Hades Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:46 am

best player i have ever seen in my life

greatest player - not having seen any of the earlier legends play , cant give an objective judgement on that question
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Post by The Verminator Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:38 am

We will see how good Messi is really. Right now nobody can say he's the best. He needs to continue doing what he is currently. Judge a player by their career, not what it can become. Nobody knows really what will happen to Messi, maybe he will slowly decline.

Anyways point is, you can't compare a player who has a long career ahead of him, and an all-time great; atleast not yet...

That's just my opinion...
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Post by black mamba Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:37 pm

you should ask casillas about it Very Happy

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Post by nichabr Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:05 pm

I hate how people only name attacking players as the best ever...maldini is better than pele, messi and maradona even though he never won a WC so is beckenbauer...
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Post by izzy Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:08 pm

nichabr wrote:I hate how people only name attacking players as the best ever...maldini is better than pele, messi and maradona even though he never won a WC so is beckenbauer...

based on what?
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