Are Italy the best of all time again?

wigglesworth wrote:But Criscito was da bomb. Also Maggio.

And he is off to Russia? Damn thats so sad:/

So you can't read? Great. I give up.

Toffer Harley wrote:very interesting. and u brought us jersey shore. great, thanks

Oh, so that is your counter? No arguments. To bad really, I was having fun being right once again.

Are you kidding me? First of all, Jersey shore are FAKE Italians. NONE OF THEM CAN SPEAK THE LANGUAGE.

"Were going to the motherland and my objective is to learn Italian" Who would of figured.

Florence, were against them from coming to the City, nobody in Italy finds them real. They are American, Not an Italian. Oh and by the way, none of them hold Italian Passports, so their not Italian

VivaStPauli wrote:So you can't read? Great. I give up.

Of course, you give up...

sciacca wrote:Of course, you give up...

I might actually try again, since you didn't (try to) read my post properly:

Here's my previous post in bullet points:

1) History isn't important, only current squad strengths matter.
1) a) Italy sucked in 2010
1) b) Italy does not suck now.

2) If history mattered as much as you pretend it does, current performances would be different.
2) a) If history mattered as much as you think long term, Spain would suck
2) b) If history mattered as much as you think short term, Italy would suck

3) Current squad strength is where you need to look at.
3) a) The current Italy squad with new players and a new manager is strong. They won't fail at the Euros in 2012 or the WC in 2014 like they did at the WC in 2010.
3) b) The current Spain squad is incredibly strong, which is why they're reigning champions. Even though they're historically shit. But because 2010 is in the past, they can be beaten, which Italy just did.
3) c) Germanys current squad is strong as well, because Germany has star players these days like they didn't have since at least the 90s, probably the 70s.

4) Conclusion: History does not matter.

5) Little side-lesson in statistics: Sentences like "historically teams that just won do worse" don't make any sense. Football statistics, especially in international football, have usually too low case numbers to be able to be computed into any kind of meaningful statistical data. There's only one WC every 4 years. Maybe in 4000 years or something you can successfully see a pattern, right now you're just confusing correlation with causality, though.

Clear now?

(Neutrals: feel free to worship me now. :farao: )

Viva = God.

VivaStPauli wrote:

sciacca wrote:Of course, you give up...

I might actually try again, since you didn't (try to) read my post properly:

Here's my previous post in bullet points:

1) History isn't important, only current squad strengths matter.
1) a) Italy sucked in 2010
1) b) Italy does not suck now.

2) If history mattered as much as you pretend it does, current performances would be different.
2) a) If history mattered as much as you think long term, Spain would suck
2) b) If history mattered as much as you think short term, Italy would suck

3) Current squad strength is where you need to look at.
3) a) The current Italy squad with new players and a new manager is strong. They won't fail at the Euros in 2012 or the WC in 2014 like they did at the WC in 2010.
3) b) The current Spain squad is incredibly strong, which is why they're reigning champions. Even though they're historically shit. But because 2010 is in the past, they can be beaten, which Italy just did.
3) c) Germanys current squad is strong as well, because Germany has star players these days like they didn't have since at least the 90s, probably the 70s.

4) Conclusion: History does not matter.

5) Little side-lesson in statistics: Sentences like "historically teams that just won do worse" don't make any sense. Football statistics, especially in international football, have usually too low case numbers to be able to be computed into any kind of meaningful statistical data. There's only one WC every 4 years. Maybe in 4000 years or something you can successfully see a pattern, right now you're just confusing correlation with causality, though.

Clear now?

(Neutrals: feel free to worship me now. :farao: )

Everything already explained.

I might even dumb it down now:

Sciacca, I was saying:
Italy good now.
Italy not going to be bad in 2012.
Italy bad in 2010.
2010 over.

This good news for you.


Germany good now.
Germany bad in 1998 to 2008.
Germany better now. (It 2011 now)

This bad news for you.

this is priceless if your engineers had the same dedication u have flooding this international forum with endless very, very boring posts about how great italy is, which seemingly only excite the other italians, then i'm sure u would build faster cars than an austrian energy drink company too .

I think it's a burn, but I don't think formula 1 is a sport, so I don't know.

Austrian energy drinks companies FTW!

VivaStPauli wrote:I might even dumb it down now:

Sciacca, I was saying:
Italy good now.
Italy not going to be bad in 2012.
Italy bad in 2010.
2010 over.

This good news for you.


Germany good now.
Germany bad in 1998 to 2008.
Germany better now.

This bad news for you.

Agreed about Italy.

Germany better now is not justified and not proven yet.
2010 = Semi's once again. Better than Italy, of course, presently.

From 1998 to 2008? Really...

2002: Germany WC Final
2006: Germany WC Semi Final
2008: Germany Euro Final

Yes, of course that is bad... Though, it does seem more like choking if you ask me.

Good Lord !

Toffer Harley wrote:this is priceless if your engineers had the same dedication u have flooding this international forum with endless very, very boring posts about how great italy is, which seemingly only excite the other italians, then i'm sure u would build faster cars than an austrian energy drink company too .

Oh that's right great point, our cars are better as well

So you don't actually want to argue any points, you just want to shit on all other teams and tout your own horn?

Sorry for trying to communicate for a second there.

sciacca wrote:

Toffer Harley wrote:this is priceless if your engineers had the same dedication u have flooding this international forum with endless very, very boring posts about how great italy is, which seemingly only excite the other italians, then i'm sure u would build faster cars than an austrian energy drink company too .

Oh that's right great point, our cars are better as well

You forget to mention that your beer is better.

VivaStPauli wrote:So you don't actually want to argue any points, you just want to shit on all other teams and tout your own horn?

Sorry for trying to communicate for a second there.

Once again, already explained.

VivaStPauli wrote:

sciacca wrote:

Toffer Harley wrote:this is priceless if your engineers had the same dedication u have flooding this international forum with endless very, very boring posts about how great italy is, which seemingly only excite the other italians, then i'm sure u would build faster cars than an austrian energy drink company too .

Oh that's right great point, our cars are better as well

You forget to mention that your beer is better.

Nope, our wine is better

oi u are supposed to cruise in a merc - in style. call up AMG for the hectic extras.

sciacca wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:I might even dumb it down now:

Sciacca, I was saying:
Italy good now.
Italy not going to be bad in 2012.
Italy bad in 2010.
2010 over.

This good news for you.


Germany good now.
Germany bad in 1998 to 2008.
Germany better now.

This bad news for you.

Agreed about Italy.

Germany better now is not justified and not proven yet.
2010 = Semi's once again. Better than Italy, of course, presently.

From 1998 to 2008? Really...

2002: Germany WC Final
2006: Germany WC Semi Final
2008: Germany Euro Final

Yes, of course that is bad... Though, it does seem more like choking if you ask me.

A bunch of kids choking? Wait for 2014 when they are more mature.

Italy won in 2006 with a very experienced squad. Most teams do. Germany actually went beyond expectations in 2010. As usual.

Toffer Harley wrote:oi u are supposed to cruise in a merc - in style. call up AMG for the hectic extras.

Sorry, Ferrari already beats all your Volkswagon's, Mercedies and Audi's. Nuff said

Sushi Master wrote:
A bunch of kids choking? Wait for 2014 when they are more mature.

Italy won in 2006 with a very experienced squad. Most teams do. Germany actually went beyond expectations in 2010. As usual.

I'll wait and see, and I will not be surprised if they do, however you predicted the future is already biased enough. But then again, if you face Italy, don't be surprised to lose again, as you never beaten is in World Cup fixtures.

And did they win no? Why because their known for choking simple.

sciacca wrote:Agreed about Italy.

Awesome.

Germany better now is not justified and not proven yet.

Yes it is, it's called using your eyes, and you can totally do it, I believe in you, mate.

2010 = Semi's once again. Better than Italy, of course, presently.

From 1998 to 2008? Really...

2002: Germany WC Final
2006: Germany WC Semi Final
2008: Germany Euro Final

Those are results, not performances, let me explain it to you:
In 2002, Germany went through a lucky streak when their opposition was drawn, while Italy actually played good and got screwed by the ref.
Your "data" shows Germany being better than Italy in 2002, which wasn't the case at all. 2002 Italy would've shat all over 2002 Germany who only had Kahn, Klsoe and Ballack and were pretty bad besides that.
2006 Germany was basically a couple of kids managed by a Swabian nimrod, carried by the euphoria of the fans. Okay, Frings, Ballack, Schneider were pretty boss, but still, it's not like they had any star players besides Ballack.
2008 Germany was owned by injuries so hard they took a shitty fullback (Fritz) with them as a winger, actually subbed in a dude named David Odonkor with a straight face and started Thomas "lol what a gimp" Hitzlsperger in a couple of matches.

If you can't see an improvement of the current team containing about 9 world class players to that half-a-team we sent in 2008, you probably cannot be helped.

I for one watched the 2010 WC, and while Germany hilariously choked once they met Spain, they looked damn good, results or no results. Theres some things numbers don't reflect. And I just refuse to believe that a couple of 18 to 26 year old kids are going to care about history.

Yes, of course that is bad... Though, it does seem more like choking if you ask me.

2010 was probably choking, 2002 to 2008 was just being outmatched. 2006 Italy was just much better than Germany. Brazil in 2002 could've pounded Germany had they really tried. 2008 Germany only had to go through Chokugal and Turkey to reach the final.


The hilarious real point to this debate is, though:
History doesn't matter.
2006 Italy was just great.
They didn't win because of the confidence from the 50s.
They didn't win because it gets magically easier if you already got 3 stars on your chest.

They just won because 2006 Italy was a f*cking great squad. And the current rebuilding Italy might send a f*cking great squad to the 2012 Euros. But not because of history, because they're doing it now.
That's why if they meet Germany they might lose. Or they might beat Spain. Hell, Brazil might even beat France one of these days.

You remember how the World Cup didn't have a new winner in so and so many years? And then Spain just went there and won it, for the first time?

Those statistics you history buffs love to cite don't mean shit. You're confusing random numbers with some kind of predetermination.
You're confusing correlation with causality.

Again.

sciacca wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:So you don't actually want to argue any points, you just want to shit on all other teams and tout your own horn?

Sorry for trying to communicate for a second there.

Once again, already explained.

You didn't explain anything, you've obviously just chosen to not read my post.
Twice.

France is crap, Norway > France.

sciacca wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:
A bunch of kids choking? Wait for 2014 when they are more mature.

Italy won in 2006 with a very experienced squad. Most teams do. Germany actually went beyond expectations in 2010. As usual.

I'll wait and see, and I will not be surprised if they do, however you predicted the future is already biased enough. But then again, if you face Italy, don't be surprised to lose again, as you never beaten is in World Cup fixtures.

And did they win no? Why because their known for choking simple.

Biased? Saying experience gives you a better chance?

Biased? Coming from you? Oh, the huge manatee.