Carlo Ancelotti sack watch

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Post by Doc Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:03 pm

Not surprising that he is getting positive results, he's a great manager.

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Post by Vibe Fri May 10, 2024 4:01 pm

I've been thinking and Davide Ancelotti, Carlo's son seem like a very important screw in the Real Madrid winning machine.

Is he the reason behind Carlo's rise to the top again?
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Post by The Madrid One Fri May 10, 2024 5:52 pm

Need to read more details on it but it is said that Davide is the main hub behind the tactics now, or that he at least has a big role in that facet of things, and that he along with the equally as young scouting analyst Carlo now uses are pretty progressive and up to date with their methodologies.

This season is definitely shaping up as Carlo's masterpiece. His 4222 that he constructed in late 2014 that only lasted a few games where Bale was injured (and before Modric himself got sidelined for most of the season) and which included the Isco-Kroos-Modric-James quartet had always been my favorite Madrid side of all time, and at the time I thought it was beautifully emblematic and quintessential of Ancelotti's philosophy. Uniting star studded dressing rooms and their talents, and giving power, flexibility, and inventive versatility to the midfielders and the midfield structure to create a system that had plenty of equilibrium. He used to use that word a lot. Equilibrio.

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It was precisely because of that that I've always remembered that side fondly, even more so than Mourinho's 11/12 invention or the 16/17 Zidane side, which are the two other most noteworthy sides I've seen since I started watching in 2010. That side was very compact and there was a lot of interchanging movement between Marcelo, Carvajal, Modric, Isco, James, Ronaldo, and Benzema. That was an all time incredible accumulation of talent that had the technique, intelligence, and still youthful enough physicality that could facilitate a wealth of possibilities, and the result was, like I said, a side that was very compact, pressed very well, and that stayed quite together and thus facilitated passing lanes and triangles that were constantly present to produce numerical overloads in attack, when pressing forward, and when tracking back and protecting opposition overloads in defense.

That Isco-Kroos-Modric-James midfield was the key to it all and what Carlo was doing particularly with Kroos and James at the time showed a somewhat subtly vibrant inventiveness that was previously seen with what Carlo did with Pirlo and his own 4321/4312 midfield quartets in Milan with Pirlo, Gattuso, Ambrosini, Seedorf, Costa, and Kaka.  

The legacy and vision of that 4222 that will nostalgically live with me for eternity was that of a sort of mellow, relationist, and pragmatically open vision of "totaalvoetbal."

This year Carlo has shown all that again.

If in Milan Carlo became famous with the positional transformation of Pirlo, back in 2014 it was very palpable that he was doing similar things with Di Maria, James, and Kroos (Kroos' inevitable transformation into a deep lying CM was already seen a bit with Guardiola), and now it has been with Bellingham and Vinicius, and Valverde too, although the latter was an invention started by Zidane.

With his masterclass man management, and tactical flexibility and versatility, Carlo has guided what he himself calls his greatest squad ever (from a human disposition aspect) and molded the squad into whatever they've had to be.

My favorite Madrid performance of this season has probably been the 4-0 thrashing of Girona at home in the league, there's also the thrashing we gave to Villarreal at home, the beating against FC Barcelona in the Spanish Super Cup final, and I also liked what I saw against Bayern at home and majority of the aspects seen against Manchester City.

Games where Madrid has played a 433, 4222, 4231, 4222, and 4231 respectively. With different players playing in the midfield and those players being the sword and shield to it all, and Vinicius the fulminating dagger.

It was a 4222 against Bayern at home, and I think it may be a 4231 against Borussia Dortmund.

If Tchouameni is injured, the uber complete midfield of Valverde-Camavinga-Kroos-Bellingham would be the perfect metaphor to encapsulate and honor the legacy of the raised eyebrow.
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Post by Vibe Mon May 20, 2024 7:51 am

I am so impressed by this man it is beyond belief.

I was certain Real Madrid is in deep shit this year, would finish like 3rd in La Liga. That was before all the injuries. Done miracles. One more miracle to go.

But what is the most impressive feat, must be this.

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Man was in Star Trek ffs. GOAT


Last edited by Vibe on Mon May 20, 2024 7:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Vibe Mon May 20, 2024 7:53 am

Carlo Ancelotti sack watch - Page 10 OP-ANCELOTTI

Even did the Vulcan salute while talking about it :bow:
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Post by farfan Mon May 20, 2024 2:19 pm

Seems like you converted to Ancelottism hmm

I "remind" arguing with you 10 years ago after Madrid's 2014 CL win about the extent of Mourinho's influence on that team Laughing
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Post by Vibe Mon May 20, 2024 3:56 pm

I am Carlo through and through Molenation

However Mourinho's influence is felt to this day. His stint changed the mentality of that club that we see to this day and there isn't a single trophy there since, that doesn't have Mou's fingerprints on it.
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Post by futbol_bill Mon May 20, 2024 5:11 pm

Vibe wrote:I am Carlo through and through Molenation

However Mourinho's influence is felt to this day. His stint changed the mentality of that club that we see to this day and there isn't a single trophy there since, that doesn't have Mou's fingerprints on it.


Bullshit!
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Post by Vibe Mon May 20, 2024 5:53 pm

I have no doubt every Madridista will hate this but what did Real Madrid win 10 years before Mourinho? And what did they win 10 years after him?

I think not admitting a change in mentality in the club as a whole happened during his time is not realistic.
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Post by futbol_bill Mon May 20, 2024 6:44 pm

You need to look at the squad before Mourinho vs afterwards. The timing you are talking about coincides more with the second rule of Florentino Perez! It did take a year for the greatly improved squad to gel, but I firmly believe giving Mourinho credit for the change is bullshit and certainly he has no impact on the success afterwards.

Generally speaking, Mourinho is a horrible person and extremely overrated.
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Post by The Madrid One Mon May 20, 2024 7:31 pm

From a narrative perspective, I think it's quite interesting how wholly singular the image of Florentino Perez has become in relation to Real Madrid's since the turn of the century. He was newly elected in 2000 and thus HE was the one who stood with Sepp Blatter and Alfredo Di Stefano to accept FIFA's official designation and coronation of Real Madrid as the best football club of the 20th century. It couldn't have been anyone else.

Santiago Bernabéu had been the architect and conductor of the orchestra of legends that began Real Madrid's all consuming myth, and it was befitting that his pound for pound spiritual successor was the one to hoist and continue the tradition.  

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Perez's arc, from the almost mythologically grandiose and extravagant "failure" of the Galactico era, through to his stepping down as president, eventual return, and astonishing redemption has a very Steve Jobs at Apple ethos to it, I think.

Mourinho's role in all of that is open to interpretation, arguably a penalty shootout away from being ultimately magnificent, but that is the nature of narratives, and in the narrative of 21st Century Real Madrid I'd say he was more important than his detractors would like to imagine, and less so than his supporters would have you believe. That he is now felt as somewhat of a, at best, "necessary" footnote, particularly relative to what's happened after his departure, speaks well of what the club, of what Perez has achieved since. For the "club" (its institution) to stand tall in the narrative of success over players and managers is the ideal scenario.
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Post by Arquitecto Tue May 21, 2024 9:50 am

Bill's hyperbolic opinion on Mourinho is clouding his judgement on this as I hated his Madrid even if I thought it was the best one I ever saw but there is no doubt the influence is obvious even if he leaves teams a mess when his job is done.
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Post by Clutch Tue May 21, 2024 1:17 pm

Yea claiming mou as a horrible person is just gonna not make me take your judgment on him serious

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Post by futbol_bill Tue May 21, 2024 1:22 pm

Arquitecto wrote:Bill's hyperbolic opinion on Mourinho is clouding his judgement on this as I hated his Madrid even if I thought it was the best one I ever saw but there is no doubt the influence is obvious even if he leaves teams a mess when his job is done.


My hate has nothing to do with what I'm saying, other than the one sentence of my opinion of Mourinho. Just for the record I don't care for any big mouth telling the organization that they and they alone can fix the situation. I felt the same way with Shuster.

What Vibe is saying, that I strongly disagree with is

"However Mourinho's influence is felt to this day. His stint changed the mentality of that club that we see to this day and there isn't a single trophy there since, that doesn't have Mou's fingerprints on it."

I say the difference is due to Perez coming in and totally revamping the squad. It took a year or more for the squad to gel, but that changed squad plus the changes since has resulted in the success we have had. Mourinho did have substancial improvement, but I don't believe it was totally his doing, it was the squad he was given. As has been discussed elsewhere here, the coach is usually given too much credit and some times too much blame. It always is a combination of the squad and the coach. But first and foremost you have to have a squad capable of winning.

And for him to say he had influence on the team afterwards is simply bullshit. Especially when you considered most of that time, we had the two best man managers there are, who influence the team chemistry far more than Mourinho could ever hope to be.
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Post by farfan Tue May 21, 2024 4:58 pm

I agree with Bill. Mourinho was an improvement over his immediate predecessors but to claim that he had some lasting influence that can be felt to this day is a reach to say the least. Not to mention this completely ignores the bigger picture and the changes that happened at the organizational level (scouting, consistent transfer policy, overhaul the club's infrastructure etc..)

These were the building blocks of long-term success and not some coach who played three defensive midfielders to counter Barça and gave rousing speeches at a halt time to motivate his players Laughing
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