The Coronavirus Thread - Part 2

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Post by Thimmy Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:51 am

https://twitter.com/JustALaugh_/status/1243116781067214849?s=20


rofl

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Post by Zagadka Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:33 am

Hypothetical questions...and please think about it, I ask these questions in peace and just something to wonder:

1) At what point of lockdown, you'll see people revolting and disobeying in mass to the point that army units will have to deployed all over? You can't cage people inside for unknown period. I'm thinking sometime in mid-May, we'll see roaring social unrest. that's even if people can pay their rent for May. I was just doing calculations and the economic devastation will be insane. I can't think of non-corporate business that can survive more than 2 months without income unless they own the land.

2) Let's say they claim the vaccine is found. But you can only receive your UBI/Unemployment benefit, if you allow a microchip to be installed to your body while taking the vaccination, so they can scan your history , if you've taken vaccine, social security number etc...Would anyone here be okay with it? scan before flights, etc....Literally straight out of sci-fi dystopian movies.

I don't know boys... I hope I am wrong and the post-quarantine life (comes first of all) and isn't drastically different than the pre-quarantine life.

Here is hoping!
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Post by El Gunner Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:43 am

just stay calm and follow your intuition.

apparently some people were given a pat down by the police who were smoking in public here yesterday Laughing wtf, total totalitarianism is lying in the wake
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Post by Jay29 Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:57 am

I don't see mass social unrest happening, for the simple reason that by mid-May most lockdown measures will likely be lifted. At some point, governments will allow businesses to restart trading and people to return to work because they won't be able to absorb the shock for much longer. The suggestion we need to distance for three or four months might be best for slowing the transmission of the virus, but it's not practical given the social and economic consequences. Rightly or wrongly, these lockdowns won't last.

If we use China as a guide (madness, I know), they locked down for 9 weeks and now they're returning to "normal", if only gradually. If we assume the situation there was much worse than reported, then that 9 week figure might be a worst-case scenario. In which case, other countries may not even need to be locked down for that long.

Now, of course we're all waiting for the inevitable second wave which might require future lockdowns. However, if the world gets it shit together on testing (especially the UK), these blanket style lockdowns will be unnecessary. They'd be able to surgically apply strict measures when necessary. At which point, the grounds of massive social unreal won't be there. At worst, you'd probably see protests and isolated incidents of unrest.

Nor do I see countries suddenly become surveillance states. Paranoia and suspicion will be natural responses and every country should keep their guard up, but once we have better control of the virus and better means to fight it, there'll be no need for mass surveillance.

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Post by Pedram Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:37 am

China really do owe the world an apology after this is over, they have caused untold amount of misery to people with their weird eating habits, they need to reconsider that shit, at some point they have to learn from their mistakes or they're bound to repeat it in the future.
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Post by Unique Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:01 pm

One thing this virus has done is it's made people forget how dangerous this new 5g is. That's from China too right.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:19 pm

Unique wrote:One thing this virus has done is it's made people forget how dangerous this new 5g is. That's from China too right.

Yup. "Chips" are so old-school. 5G is supposedly a health hazard but also, possibly, a privacy hazard.

Governments have not even funded 4G research in terms of effects to its exposure, have a guess why. 5G is even worse, and alongside 4G it will multiply those effects.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:23 pm

Wuhan-based virologist Shi Zhengli has identified dozens of deadly SARS-like viruses in bat caves, and she warns there are more out there

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/


Guys, expect a sequel on this one. How do we prepare?
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Post by Unique Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:24 pm

Myesyats wrote:
Unique wrote:One thing this virus has done is it's made people forget how dangerous this new 5g is. That's from China too right.

Yup. "Chips" are so old-school. 5G is supposedly a health hazard but also, possibly, a privacy hazard.

Governments have not even funded 4G research in terms of effects to its exposure, have a guess why. 5G is even worse, and alongside 4G it will multiply those effects.
I've seen videos of trees dying that are next to a 5g tower. Can you imagine what that would do to old people with underlying health problems.
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Post by Unique Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:27 pm

Myesyats wrote:Wuhan-based virologist Shi Zhengli has identified dozens of deadly SARS-like viruses in bat caves, and she warns there are more out there

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/


Guys, expect a sequel on this one. How do we prepare?
we clamp down hard on china until they eradicate these threats.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:31 pm

Myesyats wrote:Wuhan-based virologist Shi Zhengli has identified dozens of deadly SARS-like viruses in bat caves, and she warns there are more out there

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/


Guys, expect a sequel on this one. How do we prepare?


Read this too. This part stood out to me

Shi—a virologist who is often called China’s “bat woman” by her colleagues because of her virus-hunting expeditions in bat caves over the past 16 years—walked out of the conference she was attending in Shanghai and hopped on the next train back to Wuhan. “I wondered if [the municipal health authority] got it wrong,” she says. “I had never expected this kind of thing to happen in Wuhan, in central China.” Her studies had shown that the southern, subtropical areas of Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan have the greatest risk of coronaviruses jumping to humans from animals—particularly bats, a known reservoir for many viruses. If coronaviruses were the culprit, she remembers thinking, “could they have come from our lab?”

China's Chernobyl. Now we just need a Valery Legasov to tell us what really happened.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:32 pm

Unique wrote:
Myesyats wrote:Wuhan-based virologist Shi Zhengli has identified dozens of deadly SARS-like viruses in bat caves, and she warns there are more out there

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/


Guys, expect a sequel on this one. How do we prepare?
we clamp down hard on china until they eradicate these threats.


So you're arguing for the mass killing of bats?
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Post by rincon Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:08 pm

Myesyats wrote:

Governments have not even funded 4G research in terms of effects to its exposure, have a guess why. 5G is even worse, and alongside 4G it will multiply those effects.

Really nothing about this is right. There has been plenty of research on the effect of electromagnetic radiation on living organisms.

This is as much a conspiracy theory and being anti vaccines, in the end it's about being anti science.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:12 pm

Myesyats wrote:Wuhan-based virologist Shi Zhengli has identified dozens of deadly SARS-like viruses in bat caves, and she warns there are more out there

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/


Guys, expect a sequel on this one. How do we prepare?

The problem is that world leaders care more about money that anything else. In an ideal world, China gets severely sanctioned for their lies and forced to heavily regulate their wet markets and its poor hygiene to prevent similar viruses from making their way to humans again.

And if they refuse to comply, then cut all ties with them.

But of course, we don't live in an ideal world, and China will continue to fuck the world up, both environmentally and virologically.

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Post by Unique Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:15 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Unique wrote:
Myesyats wrote:Wuhan-based virologist Shi Zhengli has identified dozens of deadly SARS-like viruses in bat caves, and she warns there are more out there

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/


Guys, expect a sequel on this one. How do we prepare?
we clamp down hard on china until they eradicate these threats.


So you're arguing for the mass killing of bats?
no. I'm arguing for the Chinese government to stop the wet market's and the eating of animals that spread these viruses. You know how I feel about animals and people mate.
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Post by Unique Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:17 pm

The Demon of Carthage wrote:
Myesyats wrote:Wuhan-based virologist Shi Zhengli has identified dozens of deadly SARS-like viruses in bat caves, and she warns there are more out there

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/


Guys, expect a sequel on this one. How do we prepare?

The problem is that world leaders care more about money that anything else. In an ideal world, China gets severely sanctioned for their lies and forced to heavily regulate their wet markets and its poor hygiene to prevent similar viruses from making their way to humans again.

And if they refuse to comply, then cut all ties with them.

But of course, we don't live in an ideal world, and China will continue to fuck the world up, both environmentally and virologically.

spot on mate Thumbs up
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Post by Myesyats Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:17 pm

@rincon Everyone should be anti-science when RADIATION comes into play. And vaccines are nothing like radiation.

More than 240 scientists who conducted research regarding electromagnetic fields unanimously agree there should be stricter exposure limits. 5G goes the opposite way and every single one of them is concerned.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:25 pm

The Demon of Carthage wrote:
Myesyats wrote:Wuhan-based virologist Shi Zhengli has identified dozens of deadly SARS-like viruses in bat caves, and she warns there are more out there

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/


Guys, expect a sequel on this one. How do we prepare?

The problem is that world leaders care more about money that anything else. In an ideal world, China gets severely sanctioned for their lies and forced to heavily regulate their wet markets and its poor hygiene to prevent similar viruses from making their way to humans again.

And if they refuse to comply, then cut all ties with them.

But of course, we don't live in an ideal world, and China will continue to fuck the world up, both environmentally and virologically.


Sounds silly, but I reckon Trump is the only one who is willing to make that bold move right now against China. Essentially greed will be the end of humanity, sadly.

I'm also curious where will the EU stand after we're done with this virus. Because things arent looking great.
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Post by rincon Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:29 pm

Myesyats wrote:@rincon Everyone should be anti-science when RADIATION comes into play. And vaccines are nothing like radiation.

More than 240 scientists who conducted research regarding electromagnetic fields unanimously agree there should be stricter exposure limits.

RADIATION comes from the sun. The electromagnetic spectrum cover 25 order of magnitude of frequency. We should really just build thick walls with no windows and live in underground caves because visible light is RADIATION and is orders of magnitude more energetic than the waves used for telecommunication. Of course that wouldnt make sense, because we know better

Being anti-science is not being anti radiation (like light) or anti-technology, is being anti the scientific method. You are choosing to ignore the studies that we have on electromagnetism to suit your agenda. Scientific studies tell us which frequencies are, and aren't, safe to use. That's why we know about radiation in the first place, and how we know the difference in ionizing (the bad one you associate with the word RADIATION) and non-ionizing (the one we use to communicate) radiation.

To say there aren't studies on 4G because "have a guess why" is absurd. Of course there are plenty of studies on it, and on electromagnetism as a whole. The results from these experiments are analyzed to determine what is and isn't safe to use. Simply choosing to discard findings is the problem.

Every single body in the universe that has energy emits radiation, from yourself to you table, or the bed you sleep on. Luckily people study these things so we know the different effects of radiation at different frequencies (energy).
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Post by Young Kaz Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:12 pm

Pedram wrote:China really do owe the world an apology after this is over, they have caused untold amount of misery to people with their weird eating habits, they need to reconsider that shit, at some point they have to learn from their mistakes or they're bound to repeat it in the future.


Has Iran ever apologized for exporting terrorism that has caused misery to an untold amount of people around the world?

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Post by Nishankly Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:24 pm

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Post by Zagadka Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:52 pm

Young Kaz wrote:
Pedram wrote:China really do owe the world an apology after this is over, they have caused untold amount of misery to people with their weird eating habits, they need to reconsider that shit, at some point they have to learn from their mistakes or they're bound to repeat it in the future.


Has Iran ever apologized for exporting terrorism that has caused misery to an untold amount of people around the world?


None of the Iranians here (as far as I know) defend the indefensible actions of the tyrannical, murdering scum that's the Iranian regime though.

We are their biggest victims.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:53 pm

rincon wrote:
Myesyats wrote:@rincon Everyone should be anti-science when RADIATION comes into play. And vaccines are nothing like radiation.

More than 240 scientists who conducted research regarding electromagnetic fields unanimously agree there should be stricter exposure limits.

RADIATION comes from the sun. The electromagnetic spectrum cover 25 order of magnitude of frequency. We should really just build thick walls with no windows and live in underground caves because visible light is RADIATION and is orders of magnitude more energetic than the waves used for telecommunication. Of course that wouldnt make sense, because we know better

Being anti-science is not being anti radiation (like light) or anti-technology, is being anti the scientific method. You are choosing to ignore the studies that we have on electromagnetism to suit your agenda. Scientific studies tell us which frequencies are, and aren't, safe to use. That's why we know about radiation in the first place, and how we know the difference in ionizing (the bad one you associate with the word RADIATION) and non-ionizing (the one we use to communicate) radiation.

To say there aren't studies on 4G because "have a guess why" is absurd. Of course there are plenty of studies on it, and on electromagnetism as a whole. The results from these experiments are analyzed to determine what is and isn't safe to use. Simply choosing to discard findings is the problem.

Every single body in the universe that has energy emits radiation, from yourself to you table, or the bed you sleep on. Luckily people study these things so we know the different effects of radiation at different frequencies (energy).
Non-ionizing doesnt mean non-harmful... Low dosages and no long-term exposure are key, also DIRECT vs NON-DIRECT. Sun (UV radiation) is low dosage unless you stand around in the sun basically 24/7. If radiation is aimed directly at you, it will have effects even in low dosages given there is long-term exposure (which is guaraanted with telecommunication). So a lot depends whether it is focused on you or not.
"MmWave  cause radiation energy to focus in one or certain directions, leading  to increased heating if the main beam points to  the human  body. Thus,all possible pointing directions of the antenna arrays should be considered to ensure  safety, and perhaps a peak value should be used. Moreover, transmission with different  amplitude  and  phase  combinations  in  the adaptive array may result in the creation of constructive/destructive electrical field interference patterns inside the body"

At higher frequencies, surface layers of the skin are also increasingly affected.

It won't kill us all but any concerns are certainly warranted and being anti-science is a stupid accusation in this affair. We are definitely entering a new territory here.

Questioning new technology precisely means you're pro- and not anti-science.

Read up
https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1503/1503.05944.pdf
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Post by Young Kaz Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:53 pm

Zagadka wrote:
Young Kaz wrote:
Pedram wrote:China really do owe the world an apology after this is over, they have caused untold amount of misery to people with their weird eating habits, they need to reconsider that shit, at some point they have to learn from their mistakes or they're bound to repeat it in the future.


Has Iran ever apologized for exporting terrorism that has caused misery to an untold amount of people around the world?


None of the Iranians here (as far as I know) defend the indefensible actions of the tyrannical, murdering scum that's the Iranian regime though.

We are their biggest victims.


A Chinese person having to eat bats is the biggest victim of the CCP, yet we slander them as "Eating weird"


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Post by Zagadka Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:01 pm

Nishankly wrote:


This is not a D vs. R thing to be honest...good thing we have access to facts.

When this shit was unfolding in January, US media and all Dems were too busy with that impeachment sham over Ukraine.

Let's not re-write history, Almost all US media both TV and print laughed and didn't take it seriously in Jan and early Feb...Coronavirus coverage was seen as "distraction" from impeachment and nothing but a flu. Potential travel ban from China "racist" etc... :facepalm:

Tucker breaks it down here with actual videos and newspaper article titles etc.

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Post by rincon Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:24 pm

Myesyats wrote:
rincon wrote:
Myesyats wrote:@rincon Everyone should be anti-science when RADIATION comes into play. And vaccines are nothing like radiation.

More than 240 scientists who conducted research regarding electromagnetic fields unanimously agree there should be stricter exposure limits.

RADIATION comes from the sun. The electromagnetic spectrum cover 25 order of magnitude of frequency. We should really just build thick walls with no windows and live in underground caves because visible light is RADIATION and is orders of magnitude more energetic than the waves used for telecommunication. Of course that wouldnt make sense, because we know better

Being anti-science is not being anti radiation (like light) or anti-technology, is being anti the scientific method. You are choosing to ignore the studies that we have on electromagnetism to suit your agenda. Scientific studies tell us which frequencies are, and aren't, safe to use. That's why we know about radiation in the first place, and how we know the difference in ionizing (the bad one you associate with the word RADIATION) and non-ionizing (the one we use to communicate) radiation.

To say there aren't studies on 4G because "have a guess why" is absurd. Of course there are plenty of studies on it, and on electromagnetism as a whole. The results from these experiments are analyzed to determine what is and isn't safe to use. Simply choosing to discard findings is the problem.

Every single body in the universe that has energy emits radiation, from yourself to you table, or the bed you sleep on. Luckily people study these things so we know the different effects of radiation at different frequencies (energy).
Non-ionizing doesnt mean non-harmful... Low dosages and no long-term exposure are key, also DIRECT vs NON-DIRECT. Sun (UV radiation) is low dosage unless you stand around in the sun basically 24/7. If radiation is aimed directly at you, it will have effects even in low dosages given there is long-term exposure (which is guaraanted with telecommunication). So a lot depends whether it is focused on you or not.
"MmWave  cause radiation energy to focus in one or certain directions, leading  to increased heating if the main beam points to  the human  body. Thus,all possible pointing directions of the antenna arrays should be considered to ensure  safety, and perhaps a peak value should be used. Moreover, transmission with different  amplitude  and  phase  combinations  in  the adaptive array may result in the creation of constructive/destructive electrical field interference patterns inside the body"

At higher frequencies, surface layers of the skin are also increasingly affected.

It won't kill us all but any concerns are certainly warranted and being anti-science is a stupid accusation in this affair. We are definitely entering a new territory here.

Questioning new technology precisely means you're pro- and not anti-science.

Read up
https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1503/1503.05944.pdf

You are posting a paper you didn't read. 4G are not milimeter waves. The paper you posted studies the penetration depth and temperature effects for waves an order of magnitude higher frequency, and suggest that temperature measurements be used instead of power density for safety standards. Peer reviewed papers like this one are exactly what we should be reading to study the consequences of EM waves.

Non-ionizing radiation means radiation that doesn't have the energy to break chemical bonds, that's why ionizing radiation is the most harmful type. "DIRECT vs NON-DIRECT" means absolutely nothing, that's not a thing. Radiation dosage in this context is measured at the receptor, not at the source. UV radiation is harmful at all dosage, because it is ionizing, it has the energy to break the bonds in our skin cells (and more). That's why it burns our skin. Luckily we are adapted to it and have mechanisms to mitigate the damage. Dosage in this case is a matter of the degree of risk, not whether or not it's harmful.

That's not to say that non-ionizing radiation can't be harmful. high energy waves can have an effect on biological processes, such as stress-sensitive processes that can be affected by EM fields. Gene expression can be stress-sensitive, so under enough stress it can malfunction and lead to cancer. Precisely because of this there are plenty of studies on EM radiation at frequencies used for telecommunication.

So to put on a tinfoil hat and say that there haven't been studies on waves using 4G frequencies is plain wrong, there are decades of studies about it. You are not questioning technology, you cherry picking what you choose to think that exists, or not. It is not up for debate that there is extensive research on this. As new technologies are introduced like 5G, there is a surge of studies so that we will then be able to tell if it's harmful or not.

"Read up" Laughing I work at a nuclear research center.
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