Re: USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread

[Hapless_Hans]

whatever BRO

try not to shoot anyone will you

[VivaStPauli]

We’ve had the second amendment since the country was founded.

Bro, it's an amendment, and it's not even the first one. If times change you can theoretically change the law.

It’s an inalienable right to own a gun.

For now.
Pretty sure you don't really need a militia. I doubt the king of England is still lusting for revenge.

In European countries; guns are replaced with knives and the thugs own guns since a black market is created with prohibition.

Okay, this is actually a couple of points rolled into one, let's take the foot off the gas and look at it.
European countries are vastly diverse, yet none of them have murder rates (with any weapons) like the US has.
So first of all, societies here seem to breed less murder. I would posit that a part of that is that not anyone here has, on their person at most times, a device that has a button, which if you press it, will kill a living thing.

Then, if someone decides to do some knife-murderin', as we Europeans do, that is a lot tougher than just shooting people. Even if it happens, you get a lower body count. Just recently in Germany a guy went amok with a knife. Stabbed like 3 people, before bystanders beat him down with a bar stool. Killed nobody. Would've probably gotten at least one, with a gun.

Also you're vastly overestimating how easy it supposedly is to just get guns on the black market. Of course you can get a gun on the black market, but a) it takes time, since this is not fucking Mos Eisley, so you first have to find someone selling a gun, then meet with them, which is potentially dangerous, and then you overpay for a black market gun, that you have to hide at all times because if you ever get into any kind of police control, you're charged for possessing an illegal weapon.

In summary: you're wrong, a LOT less people are stabbed here than are shot on the other side of the pond.

Crazy how people can think the police (thugs hired by the state) owning guns is perfectly fine, but nope, citizens doing that should be a crime.

While some police might be thugs (ACAB, yo!), they're generally regulated by the state. If you think the state monopoly on force and violence is wrong, you need to be on the barricades starting an anarchist or libertarian revolution NOW.
It's also a dumb argument, because the solution to that is a police force with better education and strong oversight, not no police force.

It’s funny how people think places like Fort Worth and Collin county and other deep red areas are like the Wild West. They’re not. Everyone here owns tons of guns, yet I have never felt safer living in a Red area. If you don’t live here don’t comment. You really have no idea what you’re talking about. And now Californians are moving here to turn this into another blue state with the same failed policies lol

Didn't you just fucking comment on Europe without living there, bro?

And Canada is also far better then a lot of European countries as well but the cold and recent authoritarian policies turn me off heavily. I lived 1 hr away from Montreal for years. I know what Canada’s like. It’s still not better then the US.

It's certainly better for not getting shot. But since you've not lived everywhere in Canada, by your rules, you probably shouldn't comment, as per your rules.

Every society has a degree of violence, but how much violence and disorder depends on the society itself, NOT the laws put in place. If you raise your kids to respect others, not get on welfare and work hard and be honest, chances are the society does better. If you don’t, you end up with situations like the Algerians living in the banoue in France

Society is to no small degree the sum of it's laws. And also WTF are you talking about, this is such a werid red-flag throwaway comment. Raise your kids to not get on welfare? I'm not sure what you mean. If you were not insane, you'd probably mean raise them to be hard-working, provide them with an education so they can gain some nice employment opportunities.
But you think people on welfare are moochers, right? Preferring that over a living wage? Correct me if I'm wrong, bro.

Also since I don't think you've lived in France you probably shouldn't comment.

[futbol_bill]

Well written Viva. Like I said earlier it is a f’up country.

… but then again we see all this kind of denial, rhetoric, conspiracy theories in this ‘greatest country’ (lol) every day.

[Warrior]

Getting a gun is easy btw

You get a VPN and then order Polymer80. You have almost all the parts of a glock to assemble. No serial number etc

It's hard to control access but you could control dissuasion. What i wish is to see gangsters who carry a weapon go to jail for 10 years. Police knows who is a criminal they just don't have proof to lock them away.

[futbol_bill]

Have you noticed that this rhetoric seems to always make it out that the Sate is the enemy, but once Trump is back in power it will be the left and Blacks!

I still can't get over them thinking it's ok for a 16 year old to go "hunting" with an AK47!

Two of these recent court cases were these white supremist thinking they could be vigilantes protecting the whites against these dirty blacks and these recent posts by the Texan saying the state or police are the enemy?????

[Harmonica]

So US justice now says, it’s not ok for cops to kill a black man, not ok to have a mid day lynching (and film it), but it is ok for a 16 year old to carry a ak47 assault rifle into a riot hunting to kill a Niggar! What a country!

Where?

[McLewis]

I think when it comes to guns, it comes down to Americans not liking to be told what they can and can't own. Property rights are a major sticking point in this country and it doesn't matter what it is. Guns are even more of an acute sticking point because of their role as a protective tool for many. It's a conflicting fascination with authority. Our country was founded by defying authority. That defiance was very much on the minds of the Founders when they wrote the Bill of Rights. They were hellbent on ensuring the Federal Government didn't take the place of the English Monarchy. At the time, that was very much a real possibility and the only thing preventing it was Washington's ethics. That was understandable historically speaking.

Now though? It's less so. Very much less so. Outside of perhaps the Patriot Act, the fear of a tyrannical government has been largely overblown....unless you're a Southerner and you believe the Civil War was an act of tyrannical aggression, of course. Conservatives point to the Clinton's ban on assault weapons back in the 90s as a salvo in the Fed attempt to disarm citizens, however that's hyperbolic to the enth degree given the large majority of handguns remained legal. It was really just people on the right being all pissed off at not being able to cop that AK-47, Tec-9 or Uzi that they had their eye on. Beyond this, no serious attempt has occurred from the Feds to take away weapons for citizens in this country. And I seriously doubt it ever will. Even without weapons like the above, we are the most well-armed citizenry on the planet. Many moderates take comfort in this passive deterrence. I'm completely ambivalent.

As was mentioned above, the 2nd amendment is just that.....an amendment. It is a living law that exists within of a living document, The US Constitution. In order for a living document to well...live, they must change. And the Constitution has undergone many since its creation. The reason? To adjust it for use as society advances and evolves beyond the era it was created in. The 2nd amendment is among the very few that has not changed at all since James Madison created it. Any attempts to update it and bring it into modern times have been met with staunch, vigorous opposition from conservatives.

The Founders could not have possibly planned for events like mass shootings. There was no such concept back then. Updating the 2nd amendment to account for such radical changes in society is necessary. Yet conservatives vehemently refuse to do so out of some hyperbolic fear that the Feds will take advantage. Such a change requires the act of Congress, who are the people, who are the Federal Government.

We fear authority from our distant, centralized government, yet not only accept, but support it when its local.

Guns are the best visible representation of this.

[FennecFox7]

The state IS the enemy. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves with two cases (where the verdict was correct on both ends).

The police are hired thugs enforcing laws by the corrupt state, putting minorities, especially blacks in jail and in crime loops they can’t escape by getting them on drug offenses for example (why are drugs illegal again?), targeting minorities and profiling them. Then they put impossibly high bails all while charging exorbitant court fees which poor Americans have no way of paying. Look at the US incarceration rate. Look at that and tell me with a straight face that the State isn’t the problem.

Again, gun violence is a symptom of a societal problem.

I have lived in Paris. So just a correction there.

PS: thanks for ignoring the fact I got straight up abused, while my warning level has been at 25% for years for some pretty light stuff in comparison. Real nice

[VivaStPauli]

The state IS the enemy. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves with two cases (where the verdict was correct on both ends).

The police are hired thugs enforcing laws by the corrupt state, putting minorities, especially blacks in jail and in crime loops they can’t escape by getting them on drug offenses for example (why are drugs illegal again?), targeting minorities and profiling them. Then they put impossibly high bails all while charging exorbitant court fees which poor Americans have no way of paying. Look at the US incarceration rate. Look at that and tell me with a straight face that the State isn’t the problem.

Again, gun violence is a symptom of a societal problem.

I have lived in Paris. So just a correction there.

PS: thanks for ignoring the fact I got straight up abused, while my warning level has been at 25% for years for some pretty light stuff in comparison. Real nice

TBH I have no problem with that post of yours. At least it's consistently libertarian, I can live with that.
Sorry for not knowing you've lived in Paris, keep commenting on France, then.

I mean I still don't agree with you, it's insane hyperbole, but I can respect it.

[FennecFox7]

Respect to you as well viva. You’ve always respected me and respected my viewpoints and I appreciate that greatly. Just know I did read your post, and we’ll agree to disagree

[McLewis]

The state IS the enemy. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves with two cases (where the verdict was correct on both ends).

The police are hired thugs enforcing laws by the corrupt state, putting minorities, especially blacks in jail and in crime loops they can’t escape by getting them on drug offenses for example (why are drugs illegal again?), targeting minorities and profiling them. Then they put impossibly high bails all while charging exorbitant court fees which poor Americans have no way of paying. Look at the US incarceration rate. Look at that and tell me with a straight face that the State isn’t the problem.

Again, gun violence is a symptom of a societal problem.

I have lived in Paris. So just a correction there.

PS: thanks for ignoring the fact I got straight up abused, while my warning level has been at 25% for years for some pretty light stuff in comparison. Real nice

The state should be viewed with skepticism, but I disagree that it should be viewed with open hostility. It's a matter of ideology. Wanting a decentralized government is not inherently wrong. Neither is wanting a strong, centralized government. These have been opposing stances since the foundation of this country.

As for the police. I don't disagree with that characterization in more general, simplistic terms, but it's more complicated than that. In small, rural communities, the police are part of the community. They live there and know many of the citizens. Relationships (as well as friendships) are formed from that. Flip this and it's rare these days to see LEOs living in the same areas in cities they're responsible for policing. Look at Minneapolis, where George Floyd was killed. A lot of those cops don't live in the city. They live in the much safer suburbs. Same in Chicago, Detroit, Philly, Baltimore, Atlanta, etc. Crime would be far lower in these cities if the cops lived in the same neighborhoods they policed. They would have a far closer bond to those communities and would be far less likely to kill if they knew the kid they were aiming that gun at. When those relationships and familiarity bonds are not formed, there's going to be an inherent level of mistrust that then turns into hostility towards LEOs and vice-versa. The variable is the ability to form relationships (which become partnerships) with the community. It's easier to do that in smaller, rural conservative areas, much harder to do it in larger urban, more liberal areas.

As for the "abuse" you claim you received, you should be reaching out via DM if you have a problem with how this thread is being moderated. DOMA is still not allowed.

[McLewis]

3 dead, 6 injured in Oxford High School shooting; suspect is 15-year-old student https://t.co/eXoLbLQoUJ

— Detroit Free Press (@freep) November 30, 2021

So Oxford is about 30 minutes away from Detroit. I used to live in this area when I first moved to Metro Detroit. It's pretty rural and heavily conservative. Trump carried this part of Oakland County by double-digits in both '16 and '20.

I mention those demographics because so many of these shootings happen in rural settings, away from cities, where the populations tend to be a lot more conservative. Given that more liberal areas of the state (like Detroit) do not see mass shooting violence like this in their schools, it's a curious thing.

[FennecFox7]

I’m extremely disappointed with conservative and right wing discussion areas censoring the Oxford stuff. Look on r/conservative and you won’t find a single article. They’re just as bad as the liberals they cry about. Partisan politics is cancer.

My heart goes out to the kids killed. Is the motive societal? Are we not raising the next generation right?

[Warrior]

Seems to happen everywhere not only in rural areas. And way too often

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

But if you want to debate conservative background = more likely to commit mass shooting ? We can discuss this

I'll start by saying i disagree about terrorism and crime in general. Liberals are not by default better persons nor do they have a better judgement of what's moral and wrong. But the school shootings specifically it seems to often be a bullied loner, incel, far right, middle class, usually white and sometimes asian. How so ? A cult following for mass shooters leads those who fit the mold to commit the same atrocities ?

In middle class neighborhood you don't have much opportunities to satisfy a need for violence at little doses like some small time hustler would. Even less so for somebody who has no friends and stays home. What if you still feel like some desperate shit, but your comfortable life gives you nothing tangible to complain about ? You search for a culprit and internet gives you a wide array of choices. It can lead to absurd crimes such as mass shootings. Absurd in motive and in choice of victims.

[McLewis]

A student from inside Oxford High School captured this footage of the possible shooter trying to get into the classroom by impersonating a sheriff

The students did not open the door and escaped through a windowhttps://t.co/DCKb6l555w pic.twitter.com/gQWOuJPAAL

— philip lewis (@Phil_Lewis_) November 30, 2021

This is the price we pay for continuing to refuse to bring the 2nd amendment into the 21st century. This is what an insistence of keeping it in the 18th century gets us.

[Thimmy]

All of the individual, mass-killing shooters around the world that I've heard of in modern times, seem to have had some issues related to anti-social frustration. I get the impression that that's more of a common denominator in these shooters than anything else.

Anders Behring Breivik, the self-proclaimed Nazi who shot up a political youth camp here and is responsible for the worst terror act in the history of this country, was bullied during his childhood and spent his adult years playing video games and becoming brainwashed over the internet while isolating himself in an apartment belonging to his parents.

[FennecFox7]

https://odysee.com/@KeithKnightDontTreadOnAnyone:b/NG:7e

Hope the cops who shot his girlfriend rot in jail. Hired mafia from the state

[McLewis]

Video released of LAPD killing a 14-year old girl in a department store dressing room.

They were trying to shoot a man who was assaulting a woman in the store. The bullet  traveled through the wall of the dressing room (which was directly behind the suspect) and struck Valentina Orellana-Peralta, killing her instantly in front of her mother. She was trying on dresses for her upcoming quinceañera. The intended target, Daniel Elena Lopez, was also killed.



Actual shots are fired around 29:25. The scream, I think, is the mother, who was in the dressing room with her daughter when she was struck. Just a really horrific  event all around.

Apparently SWAT were already on the scene and tried to tell the officer to slow down and hold his position, but he rushed to the front of the group and just opened fire on the suspect with an assault rifle, which is overkill (to me) for apprehending a guy beating a woman in a store with what was later revealed to be a bike lock. No gun was found on the suspect.

The officer is on paid administrative leave and will undergo a psych eval.

[Myesyats]

Well, this is just ridiculous. At no point did it look like the suspect had a gun and it's not like he charged at/assaulted the officer and was struck down. This is murder in my view

[McLewis]

It's possible, but still a steep hill to climb to murder. A cop killing someone in order to save someone else is almost never classified as murder, regardless of whether the suspect is armed or not. Legally, it should be, but qualified immunity will protect the cop from this. A scenario like this is exactly why it was created in the first place.

Now the killing of the girl.....completely different story. That's voluntary manslaughter at best, involuntary manslaughter at least. One could make a case for reckless homicide, but that requires some suspension of belief.

Either way, this cop's career is over imo. It's likely several careers may be over hopefully. Cold comfort to the family of Valentina though.

Demographics do play a part here. The area where this occurred is heavily Hispanic, working class and poor, which makes it more prone to gang activity and other crime. Therefore, the LAPD tend to take far more risks apprehending suspects here than they would in more affluent areas of the city, where their actions will come under far more scrutiny.

[BarrileteCosmico]

I just don't understand, you have a team of 5 guys involved, why do you need firearm use at all? The guy was unarmed. They should be trained to fix issues in the least disruptive way possible.

[Harmonica]

Qualified immunity competes the worst thing Murica has invented against humanity.

[Found]

I came across this recently. It’s such a bad incident, especially if you have the sound on.

https://twitter.com/project_vybz/status/1357463408438874114

With all the weird legal definitions of so-called murder floating around from state to state it’s no wonder people seem to be confused about the concept. If anyone needs a lesson in what murder is that’s the video to watch.

It’s surprising that such an egregious case of gun violence, and such a stark example of the day-to-day risks and liabilities of having guns all around, somehow snuck under the radar. I guess we only really care about big glamorous news stories about psychotic school kids, cops, and suspected racists, and maybe a gang banger or two.

[Myesyats]

This case was discussed on GL if I'm not mistaken. I remember seeing the video here although cant find it now, maybe it was in some other thread

It was a "dispute" over unshoveled snow, which makes it even more egregious

[McLewis]

Two LAPD officers were fired for ignoring a call regarding a robbery in progress because they were playing Pokemon Go and had spotted a Snorlax. https://t.co/3rPFEkrJoT pic.twitter.com/zu5SNJ9Dyg

— Jake White (@unioncounsel) January 10, 2022

And these 2 morons appealed their termination. They lost.

The really wild thing here to me is they would likely get Qualified Immunity if they were to kill someone in pursuit of this pokemon.

[VivaStPauli]

Yeah I was thinking that Snorlax probably saved some poor guy's life...

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