Re: USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread

[Myesyats]

A cultural/mindset change will take generations and isn’t even guaranteed to succeed tbh. Especially with such resistance from conservative media etc.

Passing a few bills on gun control or assault rifle ban seems way easier and within reach.

[The Demon of Carthage]

Passing a few bills on gun control or assault rifle ban seems way easier and within reach.

Not sure if it's easier, mate.

There have been many bills submitted to close certain loopholes like the Charleston loophole, but the problem is that they can't pass the Senate.

[El Gunner]

A cultural/mindset change will take generations and isn’t even guaranteed to succeed tbh. Especially with such resistance from conservative media etc.

Passing a few bills on gun control or assault rifle ban seems way easier and within reach.

the cultural change will come after practical change, usually that's how it happens

but yea like Demon said, Senate is the problem... Steve Kerr, coach of the Golden State Warriors, basically also brought up that point as being the main issue at the moment concerning the topic of gun laws in his emotional speech/rant yesterday in his pre-game interview

[McLewis]

@mclewis it's this talk of never compromising that will ensure this keeps happening. An attempt of meeting some of the more reasonable ones half-ways through is the best we can hope for at this stage. Whatever deal they can come up with before the elections will be better than after dems lose. And should a miracle happen and the dems win then they can pass a bill with what they really want.

It's all so tiring. I keep hearing that we need to compromise with a side that aren't interested in it. Where are these moderate Republicans knocking down Chris Murphy's door to get something done? Where's Romney, Murkowski, and Collins? He begged all of them, on the Senate floor, to help end this crisis. Crickets. I don't really understand why anyone would continue to extend a hand to a side that continually scoffs at it and then does everything in their power to make us regret ever extending it in the first place.

I mean, did you see what Schumer said today?

SCHUMER signals NO gun bill imminent

Americans can make a choice, Schumer says. “Americans can cast their vote in November” based on how people stand on guns.

SCHUMER says Republicans can work with Democrats now to craft a bill. He’s skeptical. “Unlikely, burnt in the past”

— Jake Sherman (@JakeSherman) May 25, 2022

That's not compromise. That's a capitulation masquerading as a hail mary.

It's sickening.

[BarrileteCosmico]

Yeah they're not interested. Wasn't expecting anything else. Just saying that you can't shut that door from the get go and you have to be willing to try to engage.

[FennecFox7]

When it comes to partisan issues, republicans are extremely non-compromising. I don’t know why they pretend to be the opposite.

[McLewis]

Yeah they're not interested. Wasn't expecting anything else. Just saying that you can't shut that door from the get go and you have to be willing to try to engage.

If they're not interested, why engage with them?

[McLewis]

Joe Garcia, the husband of Irma Garcia, one of two teachers shot and killed in Uvalde, TX on Tuesday, has reportedly suffered a fatal heart attack. Joe and Irma were high school sweethearts and married 24 years. They leave behind four children. pic.twitter.com/Rlk0M2B8nR

— Ernie Zuniga (@Ernie_Zuniga) May 26, 2022

His heart literally broke. Takototsubo cardiomyopathy (Broken Heart Syndrome) is a real thing.

This is despairingly tragic.

[BarrileteCosmico]

Man that's so sad...

@mclewis I think the thing to realize is that the senate only has 48 dems (if we don't count the 2 DINOs, which i don't), so the choice is make the attempt with a 10% success rate or grandstand with a 0% success rate. That's just the cold math of trying to govern with a minority in congress. It would likely he futile, but it's the only choice available.

You would think that given that 9/10 Americans believe in background checks that's at least something that could get enough support. You would think.

[Myesyats]

No windows and only one entrance/exit with armed guards is the conservative solution to this problem Make sure everyone tramples over each other with one way to escape, nice!

And the worst thing about it is these people won't go to hell because we're already in hell, this is hell

[BarcaLearning]

The whole setup of the US whats the word elections n the Senate/House, etc. is outdated n no fair n should be change/updated? Seems to be the case for so long but obviously the ppl controling things at the top arent gonna ever do that cos they wanna keep their power?

[McLewis]

Man that's so sad...

@mclewis I think the thing to realize is that the senate only has 48 dems (if we don't count the 2 DINOs, which i don't), so the choice is make the attempt with a 10% success rate or grandstand with a 0% success rate. That's just the cold math of trying to govern with a minority in congress. It would likely he futile, but it's the only choice available.

You would think that given that 9/10 Americans believe in background checks that's at least something that could get enough support. You would think.

I understand what you're saying. Somewhere deep down, I probably even agree. 10% is better than 0%. That's what logic tells me, as a critical thinker. Emotionally, as a parent, I find that unacceptable though. I find it unfathomable that we think this way when children are dying.

The reality that I keep coming back to is the time to act was after Sandy Hook. Nothing happening after that massacre doomed those kids in Uvalde ultimately. Some of them weren't even born when Sandy Hook occurred. Their lives were on borrowed time from birth due to the failure to act.

You want to know what pisses me off the most about Republicans and Conservatives though? The defeatism. The lack of critical thinking. They either have no solutions at all because they don't believe this problem can be solved or the solutions they do have are so ridiculously delusional and lazily constructed that it makes the fervent belief they have in them almost sympathetic. Almost.

[Warrior]

Could the easiest solution be the creation a third party

The current setup of american democracy seems a blatant attempt to maintain status quo on ancient laws. If Trump made it... anybody with a bit of rep and money can do it

[CBarca]

Republicans are an extreme radical right wing, antidemocratic, near authoritarian party with a thinly veiled hatred for the republic, and the more we sugarcoat that, the more we enable them.

With that being said, this shooting won't change shit, and I'm just going to repeat the same things as always. It's the institutions. Incremental progress on "gun legislation" and "the gun lobby" is, like, nice...but until we abolish the Senate and go to something unicameral or parliamentary with proportional representation, we will continue to be held hostage by a political party (terrorist group?) who has rigged the antimajoritarian aspects of our democracy for their own gain.

Obviously I hate Dems too, but they're so far away from being the problem in American politics that it's absolutely fucking laughable when anyone makes a comparison*

*To be sure, Dems are part of the problem. What I mean to say is they aren't part of The Problem. And The Problem is the blatant disregard for democracy in any way shape or form

[CBarca]

Anyway, on a personal level...although the chances of this happening to me are *obviously* very very slim to the point where it makes no real factor in my decision making...it's another reason why I'm finishing out my last week teaching either this week or next year at this time. Fuck this

[CBarca]

Could the easiest solution be the creation a third party

The current setup of american democracy seems a blatant attempt to maintain status quo on ancient laws. If Trump made it... anybody with a bit of rep and money can do it

A third party is not possible in American politics. Even if this wasn't a studied phenomenon in politics, it's pretty obvious on the face -- why would Dems or Republican voters hurt their own party by voting for anyone else? Especially when the electoral consequences are so dire?

Dems have lost abortion rights and the supreme Court is coming for much more all due to a few thousand votes in a couple states. Republicans lost the opportunity to install a dictator over a few thousand votes in a couple states

[Warrior]

Sorry to insist... but you didn't give any details on why it's impossible

Reading your post above you seem like someone who would vote for a third party, because the other 2 are shit. If there are so many swing states it means a lot of people are not definite republicans or definite democrats, they just vote for the least worst candidate.

In Canada when we don't have a majority government, the third party is very important as it holds the balance of power. How many people have voted republican in 2016-2020 by default because they hate Clinton/Biden but they support abortion rights ? And vice versa for those who hate Trump ? I bet a lot of them don't abide strictly by the philosophy of the party they voted for.

Republican 40%
Democrat 40%
Third party 20%... assuming this third party is on the side of reason it could be a big problem for the republicans

Idk exactly how it works down south but i read you guys about how nothing can change, so i assume the binary system is the main culprit. Makes no sense to divide 300 millions americans in 2 political clans.

[Warrior]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_party_(United_States)#Barriers_to_third_party_success

Ah now i see the problem

Grosso modo it needs a billionaire to kickstart the whole thing and make it credible nation wide. Difficult but not impossible to achieve.

[BarrileteCosmico]

@warrior a lot of states are passing ranked choice voting laws. This is important as it kills the "wasted vote" argument keeping 3rd parties back. Baby steps in that direction.

[McLewis]

Another one.

A guy had back surgery, complained of the pain afterwards, follow up with doctor, was still in pain and dissatisfied with doctor, purchased an assault rifle from a local gun vendor as well as a handgun, went to the hospital and shot it up, killing his doctor, another doctor, a receptionist and another patient before killing himself.

He bought those guns within hours of committing that massacre.

Tulsa Police Chief Wendell Franklin said at the Thursday press conference that the gunman killed Dr. Preston Phillips, and wounded several others. The gunman blamed Phillips for ongoing pain he felt following a May 19 back surgery performed by him.https://t.co/ozN7e7NTCr

— Insider News (@InsiderNews) June 2, 2022

How was he able to buy a gun and use it in a massacre within hours?:

Senate Bill 1081 prevents Oklahoma cities and towns from enacting policies that would allow a court or other entity to restrict gun access to people deemed to be an imminent danger.

That bill was signed into law by Oklahoma's governor last year. That effectively means there was no way to stop this shooter from buying a gun, regardless of his mental state. This bill directly lead to the deaths of these 4 people.

Oklahoma is also a free carry state. No permit needed, no training, no safe, and/or no background check needed to buy and own a gun.

[VivaStPauli]

Well, clearly everyone at the doctor's office should've been armed to prevent this.

Man, it's heartbreaking how broken the US is.
It's also annoying because it lets Europeans be smug about it, when we should be fixing our own broken-ass countries, and we don't, because they're marginally less broken.

[McLewis]

I've been debating a conservative on reddit who literally doesn't see anything wrong with this guy being able to get a gun as quickly as he did. To him, this guy's 2A rights superceded his intentions with the weapon. And that's an absolutely fatalist point of view.

For conservatives, everyone's a law abiding gun owner.....until they flip the fuck out and shoot up a place. Then they become a criminal and should be prosecuted to furthest extent of the law. It's literally that black and white to them. That line is very clear to them. They won't lift a finger to stop anyone from doing anything as long as they don't cross that line. All is permissible, as long as that line isn't crossed. And by the time someone actually does cross it (often those won't even know they have, because they're mentally ill or don't care), it's too late to stop them.

All that's left for conservatives to do is :lament the loss of life, defend not stopping the person from crossing the line, hunker down and dig in until the storm of outrage passes. Rinse and repeat. It's worked well for them for 30+ years.

[McLewis]

BREAKING: Two people have been killed in a shooting at a mall in Greenwood, Indiana, and multiple other people were taken to hospitals with injuries, Indianapolis Metropolitan Police said. https://t.co/zbg9LEqIS8

— The Associated Press (@AP) July 18, 2022

There's been a lot of mass shooting since the last post in this thread, but I want to highlight this one because it's going to get a lot of play in right wing media. Why?

The shooter was killed by a bystander who was armed.....aka the mythical "good guy with a gun". This guy is going to be an instant, overnight hero of the right-wing. They will lionize him to the heavens.

The problem? It's still a myth. Data shows that this scenario just doesn't happen at anywhere near the levels the NRA (who created the slogan) says it does. In fact, a bystander is 4 times more likely to intervene and stop a mass shooter unarmed or with a weapon other than a gun.

But that won't stop the right wing here. They're going to harp on this singular act of "heroism" and use it ad nauseum, conveniently forgetting what happened in Uvalde and all the other times no one stepped up as well as the times someone did and were killed by the police for it.

[BarrileteCosmico]

I'm only aware of 2 "good guy with a gun" stories and in 1 of them he was killed by the police...

[McLewis]

Precisely. It's a really dangerous fallacy, especially for Black gun owners who may want to do the right thing. Cops will not care who the actual shooter is in those situations.

[Lex]

Those two examples saved dozens of lives. And the mall guy is being smeared left, right and centre

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