USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread

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Post by Harmonica Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:12 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
Freeza wrote:I hate how our media is reporting it. As if it's a George Floyd memorial-protest and not a protest against racism all around. Pretty par for the course for Danish media to act like racism isn't a thing here though.
That's good though, I mean how can you conclude racism from the video shown? It's a white man a top of a black man, but that doesn't mean it's racism. It's just easy escalation of the real problem, the police tyranny.


It's a real puzzle. All these millions of black people concluding it's racism, including scholars and historians.
How would they arrive at this conclusion? Maybe all the way from Finland, you're better able to see the forest and not the trees.
Well I can only make the conclusions I can see. And I'm fairly certain watching about 500 of the US audit videos, I've better grasp of the situation with the police and justice system, than the average US citizen. I mean the audit videos wouldn't even work without average citizen and cop being as ignorant as they actually are.


Last edited by Harmonica on Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by El Gunner Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:12 pm

I don't know what's so unclear to Harmonica lol that he tries so hard to keep racism separated from this
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Post by Harmonica Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:21 pm

El Gunner wrote:I don't know what's so unclear to Harmonica lol that he tries so hard to keep racism separated from this
Because it's not the deepest issue here, it's about police brutality. Make that go away, and police brutality against everyone will go away. I've seen enough audit videos to show they try the same tyranny against every race there is. US police force is a normal capitalistic corporation that has always tried to make most money, and with that they've somehow developed the sense that they can do what ever they want.
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Post by Young Kaz Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:42 pm

Harmonica wrote:
El Gunner wrote:I don't know what's so unclear to Harmonica lol that he tries so hard to keep racism separated from this
Because it's not the deepest issue here, it's about police brutality. Make that go away, and police brutality against everyone will go away. I've seen enough audit videos to show they try the same tyranny against every race there is. US police force is a normal capitalistic corporation that has always tried to make most money, and with that they've somehow developed the sense that they can do what ever they want.


It is racism. You are literally sitting here in a thread using videos posted by a mentally ill former soldier(potato) goading people into reacting so that they can make money off your views, and using it as representative of a nation many times bigger than your own.

Police brutality is built on racism. Most American places didnt even have a police force until slavery was ended.

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Post by Harmonica Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:49 pm

Young Kaz wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
El Gunner wrote:I don't know what's so unclear to Harmonica lol that he tries so hard to keep racism separated from this
Because it's not the deepest issue here, it's about police brutality. Make that go away, and police brutality against everyone will go away. I've seen enough audit videos to show they try the same tyranny against every race there is. US police force is a normal capitalistic corporation that has always tried to make most money, and with that they've somehow developed the sense that they can do what ever they want.


It is racism. You are literally sitting here in a thread using videos posted by a mentally ill former soldier(potato) goading people into reacting so that they can make money off your views, and using it as representative of a nation many times bigger than your own.

Police brutality is built on racism. Most American places didnt even have a police force until slavery was ended.
Police brutality can be about racism, but just because it allows the racist individuals to do unlawful actions. You do know that Furry Potato is a half black transgender right? And she isn't doing anything illegal herself. That's the issue here, she's trying to audit the public to understand the law. The problem is that most of the public, and police force is so ignorant they think they can do anything they want. Which has resulted I don't know how many ongoing civil law suits now. I mean they're disregarding them now based when more viable law suit comes along. Good way of making money, if you ask me.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:15 pm

Waiting on @McLewis to come here and lecture you on the Norwegian vs Finnish wood house construction dispute
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Post by Young Kaz Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:21 pm

Harmonica wrote:
Young Kaz wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
Because it's not the deepest issue here, it's about police brutality. Make that go away, and police brutality against everyone will go away. I've seen enough audit videos to show they try the same tyranny against every race there is. US police force is a normal capitalistic corporation that has always tried to make most money, and with that they've somehow developed the sense that they can do what ever they want.


It is racism. You are literally sitting here in a thread using videos posted by a mentally ill former soldier(potato) goading people into reacting so that they can make money off your views, and using it as representative of a nation many times bigger than your own.

Police brutality is built on racism. Most American places didnt even have a police force until slavery was ended.
Police brutality can be about racism, but just because it allows the racist individuals to do unlawful actions. You do know that Furry Potato is a half black transgender right? And she isn't doing anything illegal herself. That's the issue here, she's trying to audit the public to understand the law. The problem is that most of the public, and police force is so ignorant they think they can do anything they want. Which has resulted I don't know how many ongoing civil law suits now. I mean they're disregarding them now based when more viable law suit comes along. Good way of making money, if you ask me.


Potato is black the same way Meghan markle is. IE not at all in California she completely passes as latin and is assumed, and treated, as such.

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Post by Harmonica Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:26 pm


Here's an example what she does. When somebody attacks her. If police does the correct thing and tries to arrest the assailant, she gives an option. Either apologize on camera and pay for the possible damages, or it's going to be a ppa and law suit route. Like in this video, the assailant actually apologized and payed for the phone. The main reason of these videos is to educate the public, and the police force, not to goad them to potentially something worse. In this video every one wins, especially the public.
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Post by Freeza Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:14 pm

This is some wild news:

https://theappeal.org/minneapolis-city-council-members-announce-intent-to-disband-the-police-department-invest-in-proven-community-led-public-safety/

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:15 am

that's certainly a message to the rest of the departments out there, interesting to see if it's a bluff or if they carry out
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:30 am

https://www.axios.com/mitt-romney-black-lives-matter-6ba2262b-59d2-43b6-863e-41fd163a2aa9.html

Sometimes I think the US would be a better place if Romney won in 2016. The Republicans party would've moved towards the center, Romney campaigned in favor of minimum wage increases, I think even sensible gun control, Obama didn't do anything in his last 4 years anyways, and most importantly we wouldn't have Trump.
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Post by Babun Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:33 am

Freeza wrote:This is some wild news:

https://theappeal.org/minneapolis-city-council-members-announce-intent-to-disband-the-police-department-invest-in-proven-community-led-public-safety/


A step into the right direction if true. The structure needs reforms, publically discussed reforms so people can't claim "not in my name" afterwards. That's what's democracy is all about.
Hapless_Hans wrote:
Young Kaz wrote:Trump, along with his father, were sued by RICHARD FUCKING NIXON in order to stop their outright refusal to rent to minorities in New York City of all places in the 1970s. This is a guy who still demands to see the transcripts of a guy who was the editor in chief of the law Review at Harvard based solely on skin color. This is a guy who said, of a group of African American and Latino men in his city being freed after being wrongly convicted of a crime, that: "They probably did something bad anyway so keep them in jail" after calling on the city to bring back the death penalty for them.

What more does he have to do to show a pure contempt of brown people? Get arrested in a KKK parade the way his dad did?

There are only 3 things consistent about Trump in his life:

1. His narcissism.
2. His incestuous thoughts towards his eldest daughter.
3. His Bigotry.

Hes a RACIST. He was raised by RACISTS. He was a RACIST slumlord. He was a RACIST billionaire. He pandered to RACISTS to get elected. He stokes the fears of RACISTS to maintain power. Hes a racist racist racist. Anybody who can look at his 7+ decades on this earth and not see a racist is just a big of bigot as he is.


his father was in the KKK, too

So were most of the grandpas from the nazi generation, does it make every German today a nazi by heritage? If not, then their fathers and mothers did something right. 60y ago, most of the white Americans were outright racists.
I'd judge Trump by his actions and not bogus arguments. He clearly failed to bring the nation together with zero empathy and foresight during a national crisis (coronavirus epidemic). Furthermore, he made the situation worse by adding fuel to the fire (threatening protestors with military action). Constructive criticism is easy, one just has to try it. It works on both, republicans and dems.


Last edited by Babun on Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:59 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:45 am

Freeza wrote:This is some wild news:

https://theappeal.org/minneapolis-city-council-members-announce-intent-to-disband-the-police-department-invest-in-proven-community-led-public-safety/



Amazing. Fantastic.
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Post by CBarca Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:37 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Freeza wrote:This is some wild news:

https://theappeal.org/minneapolis-city-council-members-announce-intent-to-disband-the-police-department-invest-in-proven-community-led-public-safety/



Amazing. Fantastic.


Depends on how it's done. I just hope they don't rush into this thing.

It will be an experiment, but talk to me when they actually start to move the funding around. Saying it is one thing, doing it is another.
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Post by Art Morte Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:54 pm

A well-functioning society needs effective law enforcement, so should be intriguing to see what this community-based law enforcement will be in practice. A neighbourhood watch isn't going to cut it.
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Post by futbol_bill Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:12 pm

Read through what they are proposing. It has been done before, at least twice in US in problem cities.

They aren't eliminating the police rather to replace it with a police force more interested in protecting citizens, done with better recruitment, training as well as social assistance.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:14 pm

It is fantastic that there is decisive action to hold a department accountable that has persistently and willfully acted as part of the problem and not the solution.
It's fantastic because it is a decisive reaction on the fact that it is NOT a problem of 'bad apples', but of systemic abuse of power and misconduct, and persistent institutional resistance to be held accountable.

It must be made clear to cops that by protecting and covering for abusive colleagues they don't protect their department and their cop community, but jeopardize its existence as a whole.
That is how you change behaviour.
Because the cops are paid by the people, they have the job of protecting and serving the people, and if they don't there has to be consequences.
THAT is why this is a fantastic approach. They've had their chances. There's a long list of bad incidences, and refusal to react appropriately. They refused to take them.
I applaud the city for acting and trying a different approach. Hope they follow through. This is basically like breaking up an organized crime structure, very hard to do.

I mean, just take a quick look at this guy: chief of the Minneapolis Police Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Kroll_(police_officer)

basically a violent, unrepentant Nazi biker thug. THIS is a dangerous person, and the sooner he stops being employed by the public and granted with policing powers, the better
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Post by Myesyats Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:30 pm

futbol_bill wrote:Read through what they are proposing. It has been done  before, at least twice in US in problem cities.

They aren't eliminating the police rather to replace it with a police force more interested in protecting citizens, done with better recruitment, training as well as social assistance.

Nothing more reasonable, it's just common sense. I'd also say that way stricter gun control or outright gun ban would help because the only thing guns do is encourage more violence.
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Post by CBarca Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:50 pm

That approach is useless bordering on actually harmful (both I terms of people's safety as well as the broader "Accountability for Police" movement) if they don't act carefully and follow evidence based solutions that apply to the city and culture.

If Minneapolis takes drastic measures and then sees increases in crime and the obviously accompanying calls for a stronger police presence, it will be a national story and something for police across the US to point to and say "look, you NEED us", and you need us in our current form.

Obviously, it could work out the other direction. I hope it does. But that's all the more reason to be extremely cautious. I expect the kind of change they want will take years, and it should take years. You don't overhaul the police in a month.

As a side note, a private worry I'm having is that while this moment is a wonderful one to reflect on police brutality and capitalize on potential reform of police departments in the US, I think there is, paradoxically, almost too much focus on the police, and I'm worried about two things:

1. People will see to it that police are reformed and that's where it ends. Folks, the police are just one part of systemic racism. If we stop with police, then...

2. People may view reformation efforts of the police as fruitless or worthless if the material lives of black Americans do not improve. And trust me, the problems that black Americans face is far deeper than the police.

Of course, it doesn't help that when you address these things, or make the argument that class has a major part to play in the lives of Black America, people shout you down as someone who is downplaying racism. It's possible to understand that class is often used to downplay racism while also admitting that it works synergistically with racism.
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Post by M99 Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:22 pm

Worth watching. Very informative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8
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Post by Freeza Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:42 pm

M99 wrote:Worth watching. Very informative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8


It's an incredible documentary and should be required viewing for anyone who says there isn't systemic racism in policing and the prison system in the US.
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Post by Freeza Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:03 pm

 USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread - Page 21 EZ_4gHOXsAAEzpw?format=jpg&name=large

Nancy Pelosi out here using police violence as another PR opportunity while wearing what I assume is an African scarf of some sort
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:11 pm

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Post by CBarca Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:30 pm

Regardless of how you feel about the city council's decision, can someone please give me an explanation of why they decided to come out with all of this before they had a concrete transition plan already in place? I should be more specific: an explanation that doesn't revolve around the idea of appeasing people who want change NOW?

I understand that people are hurting and the city is too, and you want to fix the problem.

However, I don't understand why you would announce all of this without a plan. How quickly are they going to act? How exactly are MPD officers supposed to feel about going out on the streets right now knowing that the city is currently actively looking to fire you?

I have to imagine that the only sensible thing to do right now is to completely disband the MPD right now and let county/state police come in in the meantime? Public support for MPD is probably pretty low right now which is its own issue, and now the entire police department has been notified of their termination. I just can't see that being any sort of even half functioning relationship at the moment.
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Post by CBarca Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:36 pm

I was a bit more cavalier earlier when it seemed in official statements that they were doing more of a defund/build back up in an unrecognizable way type of strategy. Recent rhetoric is pretty clear: use of the words "police free", "ending the MPD", and a shift to "community led safety".

Anyway, it's a helluva proclamation. I hope it's thought through and I hope it works.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:42 pm

CBarca wrote:Regardless of how you feel about the city council's decision, can someone please give me an explanation of why they decided to come out with all of this before they had a concrete transition plan already in place? I should be more specific: an explanation that doesn't revolve around the idea of appeasing people who want change NOW?

I understand that people are hurting and the city is too, and you want to fix the problem.

However, I don't understand why you would announce all of this without a plan. How quickly are they going to act? How exactly are MPD officers supposed to feel about going out on the streets right now knowing that the city is currently actively looking to fire you?

I have to imagine that the only sensible thing to do right now is to completely disband the MPD right now and let county/state police come in in the meantime? Public support for MPD is probably pretty low right now which is its own issue, and now the entire police department has been notified of their termination. I just can't see that being any sort of even half functioning relationship at the moment.
Because they're just throwing out ideas for the past 10 days and this one finally stuck. Clearly this doesn't have the hallmark of a well thought out plan but the Minneapolis police has also fought every inch of reform so it's hard to feel for them at all.
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