USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread

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Post by Found Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:44 pm

@elitedam wrote:
@El Gunner wrote:i'm interested @Found, in detail what actually happened in Arbery case? he wasn't just jogging?


https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/prosecution-begin-closing-argument-georgia-trial-over-killing-ahmaud-arbery-2021-11-22/

"No evidence ever emerged that Arbery, who was saving money to return to technical college, took anything on his frequent runs through Satilla Shores. The property owner said through a lawyer he believed Arbery was stopping for a drink from a water faucet on the site."

@elgunner
The neighbourhood was being burgled, including the site Arberry “visited”. But here’s the kicker, that site, because of 1000s of dollars of property stolen, had surveillance cameras installed. And you know what those cameras showed? Arberry, repeatedly visiting the site, AT NIGHT, and they knew it was him from previous encounters there, at night.
@elitedan
So look, my dude, there’s a concept called ‘plausible deniability’ but what you’re relying on is implausible deniability. That’s one of the most clear cut cases of ‘reasonable suspicion’ I’ve ever heard of. It’s not about proving Arberry had stolen goods, it’s about whether they had reasonable suspicion of him, or if they’re just racist as you imply.

But by all means, do your ‘it because he’s black’ thing, I don’t think a reasonable person buys that when the other explanation is ‘it’s because he’s on camera visiting a burglary site at night repeatedly’. So when they’re convicted because they or someone else misinterpreted the citizens arrest law of Georgia, feel good about that if you want. But if the only reason you care about this case is because of some imaginary racial drama in your head, that’s pretty stupid, just saying.

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Post by El Gunner Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:06 pm

with America's, and in truth the world's history of racism, you can't really blame people if they see some form of racial intent in most of these instances

but thanks for the detail @Found Thumbs up still a pretty crazy thought though to take the law into your own hands, and go kill the guy in the way they did. But i guess as we've established that's 'Murica for you.
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Post by elitedam Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:03 pm

@Found wrote:
@elitedan
So look, my dude, there’s a concept called ‘plausible deniability’ but what you’re relying on is implausible deniability. That’s one of the most clear cut cases of ‘reasonable suspicion’ I’ve ever heard of. It’s not about proving Arberry had stolen goods, it’s about whether they had reasonable suspicion of him, or if they’re just racist as you imply.

But by all means, do your ‘it because he’s black’ thing, I don’t think a reasonable person buys that when the other explanation is ‘it’s because he’s on camera visiting a burglary site at night repeatedly’. So when they’re convicted because they or someone else misinterpreted the citizens arrest law of Georgia, feel good about that if you want. But if the only reason you care about this case is because of some imaginary racial drama in your head, that’s pretty stupid, just saying.


There is no evidence that he burglarized the house. The videos only show him in the property. The owner has stated that many people stopped and explored his house that was under construction. According to the security cameras, the only people who stole from the property were white.

It's mindboggling that you're minimizing what happened with this "misinterpretation of Georgia laws" BS. These three pieces of shit made ridiculous assumptions that led them to chasing a black man who was jogging down their street and killing him.

And according to William Bryan, Travis McMichael said "fucking *bleep*" after killing Arbery. But sure, it's just imaginary racial drama.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:44 pm

@Found wrote:
@elitedam wrote:
@El Gunner wrote:i'm interested @Found, in detail what actually happened in Arbery case? he wasn't just jogging?


https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/prosecution-begin-closing-argument-georgia-trial-over-killing-ahmaud-arbery-2021-11-22/

"No evidence ever emerged that Arbery, who was saving money to return to technical college, took anything on his frequent runs through Satilla Shores. The property owner said through a lawyer he believed Arbery was stopping for a drink from a water faucet on the site."

@elgunner
The neighbourhood was being burgled, including the site Arberry “visited”. But here’s the kicker, that site, because of 1000s of dollars of property stolen, had surveillance cameras installed. And you know what those cameras showed? Arberry, repeatedly visiting the site, AT NIGHT, and they knew it was him from previous encounters there, at night.
@elitedan
So look, my dude, there’s a concept called ‘plausible deniability’ but what you’re relying on is implausible deniability. That’s one of the most clear cut cases of ‘reasonable suspicion’ I’ve ever heard of. It’s not about proving Arberry had stolen goods, it’s about whether they had reasonable suspicion of him, or if they’re just racist as you imply.

But by all means, do your ‘it because he’s black’ thing, I don’t think a reasonable person buys that when the other explanation is ‘it’s because he’s on camera visiting a burglary site at night repeatedly’. So when they’re convicted because they or someone else misinterpreted the citizens arrest law of Georgia, feel good about that if you want. But if the only reason you care about this case is because of some imaginary racial drama in your head, that’s pretty stupid, just saying.


burglaries at night?

what the fuck are you even talking about

a person got lynched in broad daylight you fucking racist piece of shit

THAT is what's going on in these neighbourhoods
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Post by Found Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:37 pm

@elitedam wrote:
There is no evidence that he burglarized the house. The videos only show him in the property. The owner has stated that many people stopped and explored his house that was under construction

I’m not here to argue whether he burgled or not. It’s irrelevant, this is not about destroying his character or saying he deserved this or that. He was trespassing on property at night, that had been burgled, fact. That gives you a reasonable suspicion of him, whether you should act on that suspicion or not.
You’re pushing the edge of what I perceive as sanity to say a person could only be suspicious of him because of racism.
So are you gaslighting me? That’s not very nice  Crying or Very sad

@elitedam wrote:
According to the security cameras, the only people who stole from the property were white.

And according to William Bryan, Travis McMichael said "fucking *bleep*" after killing Arbery. But sure, it's just imaginary racial drama.

I don’t know if either of your claims are facts. I didn’t catch that in the prosecution’s arguments. Either I missed it or the evidence of those claims was too weak to get to trial.
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Post by Myesyats Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:16 pm

JUST IN: A jury delivered guilty verdicts Wednesday on murder charges against three White men who chased and shot Ahmaud Arbery as the 25-year-old Black man jogged last year through their Glynn County, Georgia, neighborhood.

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Post by FennecFox7 Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:20 am

Lol @ the conservatives justifying a gun down. That was a plain and simple homicide and justice is served
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Post by futbol_bill Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:44 pm

So US justice now says, it’s not ok for cops to kill a black man, not ok to have a mid day lynching (and film it), but it is ok for a 16 year old to carry a ak47 assault rifle into a riot hunting to kill a Niggar! What a country!

And the republicans, at least a large percentage of them are screaming foul on the first two and giving the kid a hero’s welcome to see the ex president!!

Just mind boggling. And they claim it is the greatest country in the world!
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Post by Found Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:17 am

@futbol_bill wrote:So US justice now says, it’s not ok for cops to kill a black man, not ok to have a mid day lynching (and film it), but it is ok for a 16 year old to carry a ak47 assault rifle into a riot hunting to kill a Niggar! What a country!

And the republicans, at least a large percentage of them are screaming foul on the first two and giving the kid a hero’s welcome to see the ex president!!

Just mind boggling. And they claim it is the greatest country in the world!


It’s pretty bad, but it doesn’t seem quite as bad if you find a way to get out of your psychotic racial delusions, which I don’t expect to happen.

I notice the horrific vehicular attack in Wisconsin hasn’t got any attention here, although it’s not technically gun violence. A black guy with social media posts expressing violence to white people brutally killed 6 white people and injured many more.
But notice the important thing: the coverage of this event does not contain any psychotic race baiting narratives.
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Post by McLewis Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:23 am

A reminder, fellas.

If you want to discuss these topics within the lens of race, use the Racism Thread.
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Post by futbol_bill Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:27 pm

Forgive me McLewis, but this thread is also mainly about Racism. I’m just pointing out how f’up your country is!

It begins with the gun laws and is very much enhanced with the legal judgements! First you have obviously biased judges like one of the kid with an Ak47 and then you have the juries. Almost always in these cases, it is a predominantly white jury, yet if the jury is supposed to be neutral, it should be representative of population in general. Last I checked more than half the population was non white!
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Post by Thimmy Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:10 pm

lol. Welcome to GL, Found Proud
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Post by Mamad Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:02 pm

I think as the claimed greatest country on earth, the goal should be to create a society safe enough that you don't have to worry much about protecting yourself. instead usa is going down a way that says if you wanna be safe you have to carry a gun.
whats next students carrying guns into classroom so if one of them decided to shoot they can protect themselves??
in a safe and peaceful society you don't need to own and carry guns to feel safe.
the endgame for such thinking is not gonna be good. usa is doomed.
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Post by FennecFox7 Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:20 pm

@Mamad wrote:I think as the claimed greatest country on earth, the goal should be to create a society safe enough that you don't have to worry much about protecting yourself. instead usa is going down a way that says if you wanna be safe you have to carry a gun.
whats next students carrying guns into classroom so if one of them decided to shoot they can protect themselves??
in a safe and peaceful society you don't need to own and carry guns to feel safe.
the endgame for such thinking is not gonna be good. usa is doomed.


What an awful take.

We’ve had the second amendment since the country was founded. It’s an inalienable right to own a gun. In European countries; guns are replaced with knives and the thugs own guns since a black market is created with prohibition.

Crazy how people can think the police (thugs hired by the state) owning guns is perfectly fine, but nope, citizens doing that should be a crime.

It’s funny how people think places like Fort Worth and Collin county and other deep red areas are like the Wild West. They’re not. Everyone here owns tons of guns, yet I have never felt safer living in a Red area. If you don’t live here don’t comment. You really have no idea what you’re talking about. And now Californians are moving here to turn this into another blue state with the same failed policies lol

And Canada is also far better then a lot of European countries as well but the cold and recent authoritarian policies turn me off heavily. I lived 1 hr away from Montreal for years. I know what Canada’s like. It’s still not better then the US.

Every society has a degree of violence, but how much violence and disorder depends on the society itself, NOT the laws put in place. If you raise your kids to respect others, not get on welfare and work hard and be honest, chances are the society does better. If you don’t, you end up with situations like the Algerians living in the banoue in France
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Post by Myesyats Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:55 am

Sounds not safe at all if as an American you need guns to protect yourself from other Americans. That's the opposite of safe, imo. The statement that in europe guns are replaced with knives is not true really, and even if sometimes knife crime happens,  it's much harder to kill with a knife because you have to be in close proximity and really commit instead of just pulling a trigger from a distance. Also much easier to subdue a knife attacker than somebody with an AR15. Much safer in my view.
And you can't really organize a mass killing with a knife the way you can shoot up a school with assault rifles.


I also struggle with the fact of standing by very outdated policy and constitutional provisions dating back hundreds of years which ought to be altered to fit in more with the times. It's like standing by medieval policy in europe just for the sake of it.
Other than hunting  weaponry, I see no reasons for ordinary citizens to own what are essentially weapons of war. Specially with the mental health standards, poor background check regulations etc.

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Post by El Gunner Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:14 am

yea, dumb comparison
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Post by Mamad Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:04 pm

It’s an inalienable right to own a gun.

Why?
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Post by FennecFox7 Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:02 pm

Read our constitution. 2nd amendment, right to bear arms. Also, the government doesn’t have the right to tell me either way. I know plenty of people who own guns, they’re not out here killing randoms. I also have the right to defend my property in case someone wants to break in and rob me, or rob someone else’s family at gunpoint. I’m sure you’d like to have a gun to protect yourself and your family if some psychopath wanted to murder you or rob you.

Agree to disagree, guns don’t kill people, people kill people. Look at how gun control has benefitted Chicago. Exactly, hasn’t done anything.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:03 pm

@FennecFox7 wrote:Read our constitution. 2nd amendment, right to bear arms. Also, the government doesn’t have the right to tell me either way. I know plenty of people who own guns, they’re not out here killing randoms. I also have the right to defend my property in case someone wants to break in and rob me, or rob someone else’s family at gunpoint. I’m sure you’d like to have a gun to protect yourself and your family if some psychopath wanted to murder you or rob you.

Agree to disagree, guns don’t kill people, people kill people. Look at how gun control has benefitted Chicago. Exactly, hasn’t done anything.


It's a well establish fact that households with guns are actually less safe than households without guns.
I hate to break this to you, but odds are you're more likely to shoot your spoouse than you are to save them from getting shot.

And anyone who says that "guns don't kill people" really is just a fucking moron

kind of strange that you would be one but here we are
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Post by FennecFox7 Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:09 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@FennecFox7 wrote:Read our constitution. 2nd amendment, right to bear arms. Also, the government doesn’t have the right to tell me either way. I know plenty of people who own guns, they’re not out here killing randoms. I also have the right to defend my property in case someone wants to break in and rob me, or rob someone else’s family at gunpoint. I’m sure you’d like to have a gun to protect yourself and your family if some psychopath wanted to murder you or rob you.

Agree to disagree, guns don’t kill people, people kill people. Look at how gun control has benefitted Chicago. Exactly, hasn’t done anything.


It's a well establish fact that households with guns are actually less safe than households without guns.
I hate to break this to you, but odds are you're more likely to shoot your spoouse than you are to save them from getting shot.

And anyone who says that "guns don't kill people" really is just a fucking moron

kind of strange that you would be one but here we are


Here we are with the insults. Real brave to talk like that on the internet. Hats off, you’re truly one of a kind.

Show me these “well established facts”.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:55 pm

It's you who is insulting everyone's intelligence, including your own
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:05 pm

Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home
A L Kellermann  1 , G Somes, F P Rivara, R K Lee, J G Banton
Affiliations

   PMID: 9715182 DOI: 10.1097/00005373-199808000-00010

Abstract

Objective: Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.

Methods: We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.

Results: During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.

Conclusions: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/
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Post by FennecFox7 Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:52 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:It's you who is insulting everyone's intelligence, including your own


Nope. You called me a moron. Watch your mouth and grow up. You’re old enough to act like an adult.

I’ll check that study out later as well as how it was conducted and potential biases, etc
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:03 pm

@FennecFox7 wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:It's you who is insulting everyone's intelligence, including your own


Nope. You called me a moron. Watch your mouth and grow up. You’re old enough to act like an adult.

I’ll check that study out later as well as how it was conducted and potential biases, etc



Right Laughing

A little hint: it's not rocket science. If there's guns, people get shot.

Dumb fucking Americans Laughing
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Post by FennecFox7 Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:06 pm

Have fun on my ignore list. Peace
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:07 pm

whatever BRO

try not to shoot anyone will you
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