USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread

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Post by Freeza on Fri May 29, 2020 2:54 pm

When has a peaceful protest ever resulted in change?

Violence and anger is the only thing that accomplishes anything. These riots have put way more eyes on the issues than the peaceful protests.

When there was a peaceful protest (Kaepernick) about police violence the racists just twisted the issue and nothing ultimately happened.

Using violence to achieve change against the elite is exactly what the 2nd amendment was intended for.

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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Fri May 29, 2020 3:03 pm

I hear you, but that's not what I was getting at. What I was trying to say here is maybe we should consider the possibility that some of those looters don't really belong to the movement and were put there simply to give the public eye a reason to be less sympathetic with the protesters.

I have no proof, but I wouldn't be surprised if some them were paid to do just that (loot, burn, break) while the cameras are rolling.

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Post by CBarca on Fri May 29, 2020 3:36 pm

Hi McLewis, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the riots in particular.

@Freeza, I'm not sure that's a great example. Kaepernick was the talk of the country for a while and is still referenced in every discussion of police brutality from then until now. Just because he didn't change the NFL/change the US over night doesn't mean it wasn't influential or successful. It was certainly successful.

With that being said, I agree with your general idea.

I can't say I think the rioting is OK, but as I said before, the rage is palpable, and I understand why riots would break out. They have before in the US, and they will happen again. The rioting has brought more attention to this than their otherwise would be. Does that mean it's right? That's a debate that can be had, and I don't think it's a simple debate, but it's people are being dense if they don't understand why.

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Post by Pedram on Fri May 29, 2020 3:43 pm



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Post by M99 on Fri May 29, 2020 4:00 pm

What a shitshow

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Post by Myesyats on Fri May 29, 2020 6:49 pm

This one really resonated with me


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Post by rincon on Fri May 29, 2020 6:51 pm

@Myesyats wrote:This one really resonated with me


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Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri May 29, 2020 7:07 pm

Yeah without any doubt Kapernicks's protest was highly effective and influential

he paid a high price too

lost his job

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Post by Young Kaz on Fri May 29, 2020 9:16 pm

The police were charged with Manslaughter and Murder.

All the people saying violence doesnt work are proven wrong yet again.

The tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants. :coffee:
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Post by VivaStPauli on Fri May 29, 2020 10:22 pm

@McLewis wrote:Lots of thoughts on what's going on in Minneapolis. I'll keep them as concise as I can:

- If you support the protests, but not the riots, that's fine just so long as you understand why the riots are happening. It's not just because some folks saw an opportunity to loot and destroy shit. Riots happen when the concerns of a community are not heard and acted upon. You don't have to support it, but at least understand it.

- There is no such thing as a "good police officer" to me. Good police officers would not have allowed George Floyd to die the way he did. Instead they just watched or actively participated. Bad cops get away with this because they know no one will hold them accountable unless it's caught on camera. Until this changes, they're all bad cops to me. There is no middle ground here.

- Normally, I'd feel better about the FBI being involved here, but I don't. So many cops have gotten away with murdering black people, even with video evidence. Botham Jean was murdered in his own home by a police officer who mistook it for hers.....and she got a slap on the wrist and a hug from the judge (As well as a hug from Jean's brother). Eric Garner was choked out and killed by police and the Department of Justice declined to try his murderer. I could go on and on of black people being killed by cops and those cops getting away with it. You think the rioting is bad now? Watch what will happen if these 4 are not convicted and given lengthy sentences.

- Why haven't US police been better trained to prevent shit like this from happening? Simple. Police unions are extremely powerful and influential. Politicians from mayors to governors to senators even presidents often don't get where they are without the support of these unions. As such, the unions protect the police departments from true accountability, allowing them to police their populaces however way they feel they should be able to, resulting in what we've seen over and over again. This will never end until the power these unions have over politicians is broken.


Not much to add to it, but just want to clearly say this at least once, coming from a white guy, from Europe, half the world away:
I agree with everything you've just written. Everything.
And even while this doesn't directly affect or threaten me, I follow enough of the news to know what is going on, even if I can't really relate.

I at least can tell you this: from where I'm standing, you're fucking right. On all of it.

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Post by Freeza on Fri May 29, 2020 10:26 pm



This is fucking ridiculous... They're really faking a fucking autopsy...

This is going to be a full out war when these cops go free

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri May 29, 2020 11:38 pm


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Post by Robespierre on Fri May 29, 2020 11:57 pm

At least the black minorities  have made great achievements in USA  for a few years now and so this case got the right emphasis.
I don't believe about the matter of the   'generalized racism ' , I mean that killer policeman is racist certainly but the main problem is the disproportionate use of police force regardless of racism issues*, which it's  further aggravating factor yes, but not the main cause here imho.
* And it's not just an American problem, Aldovrandi lives in our hearts
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Post by sportsczy on Sat May 30, 2020 12:37 am

@Freeza wrote:

This is fucking ridiculous... They're really faking a fucking autopsy...

This is going to be a full out war when these cops go free

Yeah I saw this coming... and there's a lot of legal precedents too.  Read this:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/criminal-charges-in-george-floyds-death-set-up-legal-battle-11590791419

To support a third-degree murder charge, prosecutors don’t have to show the killing was intentional. But they need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the officer caused the death by acting with a “depraved mind without regard for human life,” according to Minnesota law. The video alone may not be enough evidence to secure a conviction, said Richard Frase, a criminal-law professor at Minnesota Law School in Minneapolis.

He said prosecutors will have to argue that Mr. Chauvin, who has been fired from his job, knew that pressing his knee against Mr. Floyd’s neck could have deadly consequences but didn’t care.

... and that's the issue.  The police is actually allowed to use force, even deadly force.  Murder is going to be a hard conviction.  They need to prove medically and scientifically that the pressure on the back of his neck directly led to the death. Otherwise, it's involuntary manslaughter (caused by criminal negligence).  3.5 to 15 years of prison.

Regardless, he's going to jail. I just hope the prosecution picks the right charges that will get a conviction.


Last edited by sportsczy on Sat May 30, 2020 12:45 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by sportsczy on Sat May 30, 2020 12:38 am

I can understand rioting to some extent in such an emotionally charged environment. Happens everywhere... but the looting?  Not even a little bit.

The destruction and/or theft of another person's personal property is just stupid. I had the same problem with many of the strikes in France. For example, farmers would pour eggs and milk on the freeways when there are so many people needing food in the world when they were protesting some French government policy.

You discount your message this way... even if the message/cause is completely legit.

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Post by McLewis on Sat May 30, 2020 3:31 am

@sportsczy wrote:And I DO NOT agree with McLewis with his no "middle ground" stance... that's absolutely ridiculous nonsense. Most police are absolutely good people. Just as most African Americans are good people.

Just as you don't want people to feel like every Black person is a thug... you shouldn't stereotype police. It's small-minded.


Good people do not stand by and let bad people do bad shit. Period.

Until good cops are not afraid to hold bad cops accountable, they cannot be considered good cops. It's really as simple as that. They are bound by an oath to serve and protect, even if that means protecting us from one of their own. Letting bad cops get away with bad shit is not in keeping with that oath. For this reason, your analogy of comparing black CIVILIANS, makes absolutely no sense.


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Post by McLewis on Sat May 30, 2020 3:42 am

On a different note: The phone transcript from Breonna Taylor's murder has been release:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/breonna-taylor-kenneth-walker-911-call-police-shooting/

It proves that Kenneth Walker, her boyfriend, did not know the cops who killed her were cops. He's since been released from jail.
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Post by El Gunner on Sat May 30, 2020 4:40 am

@sportsczy wrote:I can understand rioting to some extent in such an emotionally charged environment. Happens everywhere... but the looting?  Not even a little bit.

The destruction and/or theft of another person's personal property is just stupid. I had the same problem with many of the strikes in France. For example, farmers would pour eggs and milk on the freeways when there are so many people needing food in the world when they were protesting some French government policy.

You discount your message this way... even if the message/cause is completely legit.
How does looting discount the message?? In my opinion it drives it more home. Since when has looting not been a part of rioting?

You price material possession over a human life? Think you might be part of the problem.

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Post by sportsczy on Sat May 30, 2020 4:46 am

@McLewis wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:And I DO NOT agree with McLewis with his no "middle ground" stance... that's absolutely ridiculous nonsense. Most police are absolutely good people. Just as most African Americans are good people.

Just as you don't want people to feel like every Black person is a thug... you shouldn't stereotype police. It's small-minded.


Good people do not stand by and let bad people do bad shit. Period.

Until good cops are not afraid to hold bad cops accountable, they cannot be considered good cops. It's really as simple as that. They are bound by an oath to serve and protect, even if that means protecting us from one of their own. Letting bad cops get away with bad shit is not in keeping with that oath. For this reason, your analogy of comparing black CIVILIANS, makes absolutely no sense.



It absolutely does. You can't act bigoted and stereotypical in one direction... and then demand and expect differently in the other one.

Being a policeman is a tough job and one where you have to have each other's back. It's similar to the military. You follow the chain of command no matter what because that's the only way you stay safe. You follow orders. 99% of the time, they do a great job as this chart irrefutably shows:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191237/reported-property-crime-rate-in-the-us-since-1990/

Do they fuck up 1% of the time? Sure. You have bad apples. They should get punished. But I will not stand idly by when people attack the overall work of the police who do a heck of a job to keep us safe.

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Post by sportsczy on Sat May 30, 2020 4:49 am

@El Gunner wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:I can understand rioting to some extent in such an emotionally charged environment.  Happens everywhere... but the looting?  Not even a little bit.  

The destruction and/or theft of another person's personal property is just stupid.  I had the same problem with many of the strikes in France.  For example, farmers would pour eggs and milk on the freeways when there are so many people needing food in the world when they were protesting some French government policy.  

You discount your message this way...  even if the message/cause is completely legit.  
How does looting discount the message?? In my opinion it drives it more home. Since when has looting not been a part of rioting?

You price material possession over a human life? Think you might be part of the problem.

It shows that you're a bunch of thugs with absolutely no respect for the victims... you're just trying to get your jollies and enrich yourself.

You don't fight crime with criminality.

The frustration is totally justified and you have to figure out the best way to get your point across.

As Al Sharpton said today (and I don't agree with him on most anything, but I do agree with this statement):

"You don't do it by appearing criminal yourself," Sharpton said. "We are not the ones that inflict the pain. We are the ones that have been pained, and our reaction must show that and highlight that. Otherwise, people will exploit that and change the focus into demonizing those that conduct themselves in a violent way rather than those saying, as the Floyd family is saying, we want justice."

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Post by FennecFox7 on Sat May 30, 2020 5:02 am

@sportsczy wrote:I can understand rioting to some extent in such an emotionally charged environment. Happens everywhere... but the looting?  Not even a little bit.

The destruction and/or theft of another person's personal property is just stupid. I had the same problem with many of the strikes in France. For example, farmers would pour eggs and milk on the freeways when there are so many people needing food in the world when they were protesting some French government policy.

You discount your message this way... even if the message/cause is completely legit.


Yup. Protests? 100% support. Attacking small businesses because of this and stealing shit? absolute No from me. You need to go to school, get superior social status, and no one will mess with you. Look at the Jews in America.. there’s a reason no one fucks with them
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Post by LeVersacci on Sat May 30, 2020 6:55 am

There’s no such thing as good cops in America. Especially the white ones.


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Post by El Gunner on Sat May 30, 2020 9:34 am

@FennecFox7 wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:I can understand rioting to some extent in such an emotionally charged environment. Happens everywhere... but the looting?  Not even a little bit.

The destruction and/or theft of another person's personal property is just stupid. I had the same problem with many of the strikes in France. For example, farmers would pour eggs and milk on the freeways when there are so many people needing food in the world when they were protesting some French government policy.

You discount your message this way... even if the message/cause is completely legit.


Yup. Protests? 100% support. Attacking small businesses because of this and stealing shit? absolute No from me. You need to go to school, get superior social status, and no one will mess with you. Look at the Jews in America.. there’s a reason no one fucks with them
Are you listening to yourself?? Not everyone is the position to go get that supposed "superior social status" you're talking about Laughing

You and Sports might as well call those black folk "THUGS" while you're at it

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Post by Freeza on Sat May 30, 2020 9:35 am

Poor people have been looted for years. They're only taking back what's rightly theirs

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Post by Myesyats on Sat May 30, 2020 10:09 am

@El Gunner wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:I can understand rioting to some extent in such an emotionally charged environment. Happens everywhere... but the looting?  Not even a little bit.

The destruction and/or theft of another person's personal property is just stupid. I had the same problem with many of the strikes in France. For example, farmers would pour eggs and milk on the freeways when there are so many people needing food in the world when they were protesting some French government policy.

You discount your message this way... even if the message/cause is completely legit.
How does looting discount the message?? In my opinion it drives it more home. Since when has looting not been a part of rioting?

You price material possession over a human life? Think you might be part of the problem.

I want change in the world but i also want that 60" 4K Ultra HD TV..... don't I now hmm

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