Re: USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread

[Young Kaz]

With that thinking, you should be removing the statues of Gandhi, as he had a "disdain" for African people. Leonardo da Vinci thought of women as second class citizens, all of his statues and artwork should be removed too. And while we are at it, religions were the primary cause of many deaths in Europe during the dark ages, should we burn the churches to the ground too? It was a different time ffs, these people did not have the same understanding of the world as we do now. Imagine in a 100 years our grandchildren might think of us as savages for eating other animals and wearing their skins.

Why are we trying to delete history? Isn't the point of history to learn from the past's mistakes? Leave those statues with a description of who these people are, leave all the good and the bad. These statues are not to be celebrated but to show the history.

Gandhi statues in Africa have been removed.

[danyjr]

And what has that accomplished? That Gandhi is a bad man? Or was he a good man? Or was he, like every person in the world had good and bad traits? I don't promote idolising human beings, but having a statue of them is not idolising them.

And more importantly, why not judge someone based on what was the norm in their time? If we were born in the 15th century Europe chances are we would have been racist and sexists too. Does that make us inherently bigots? Or is it because just about everyone thought like that back then, as wrong as it sounds to us now.

[Young Kaz]

And what has that accomplished? That Gandhi is a bad man? Or was he a good man? Or was he, like every person in the world had good and bad traits? I don't promote idolising human beings, but having a statue of them is not idolising them.

And more importantly, why not judge someone based on what was the norm in their time? If we were born in the 15th century Europe chances are we would have been racist and sexists too. Does that make us inherently bigots? Or is it because just about everyone thought like that back then, as wrong as it sounds to us now.

It accomplished a lot. I know where you live its probably normal to hate people with dark skin, but Africans should not be expected to have statues of such people in their lands.

[Myesyats]

And what has that accomplished? That Gandhi is a bad man? Or was he a good man? Or was he, like every person in the world had good and bad traits? I don't promote idolising human beings, but having a statue of them is not idolising them.

And more importantly, why not judge someone based on what was the norm in their time? If we were born in the 15th century Europe chances are we would have been racist and sexists too. Does that make us inherently bigots? Or is it because just about everyone thought like that back then, as wrong as it sounds to us now.

I know where you live its probably normal to hate people with dark skin.

I love the psuedo-righteous tone with which you write. It's quite remarkable.

[danyjr]

I regret posting on this thread already.

I come from a leftist family (you'd call my parents far left in the 80s) but I find the politics are so polarised these days that I don't fit in anywhere.

[Young Kaz]

And what has that accomplished? That Gandhi is a bad man? Or was he a good man? Or was he, like every person in the world had good and bad traits? I don't promote idolising human beings, but having a statue of them is not idolising them.

And more importantly, why not judge someone based on what was the norm in their time? If we were born in the 15th century Europe chances are we would have been racist and sexists too. Does that make us inherently bigots? Or is it because just about everyone thought like that back then, as wrong as it sounds to us now.

I know where you live its probably normal to hate people with dark skin.

I love the psuedo-righteous tone with which you write. It's quite remarkable.

We live in the same country. Its a tone of knowing.

We sat by, for decades, if not centuries, and just accepted that it was normal to worship men who hated dark skin. Those days are over.

[Babun]

I regret posting on this thread already.

I come from a leftist family (you'd call my parents far left in the 80s) but I find the politics are so polarised these days that I don't fit in anywhere.

Welcome to the angstly (not brave) new world! There is no grey area inbetween, if your opinion doesn't fit the narrative even a little bit you're far left or far right. Normal people don't count anymore,only the voices of the loud minorities dictate what's supposed t be right or wrong
I disagree with you or sports though. They blurt their loud slogans to shut us down. You shouldn't leave. Expose the "opinions" for what they are.
Also, don't pay much attention to YoungKaz, he's got an identity problem. For him, the movement is a sanctuary to deflect from his reality. Of course, he'll never mention the open racism in Japan, China or Korea NOW. The statues of the past do more harm by just standing under the rain out there

And what has that accomplished? That Gandhi is a bad man? Or was he a good man? Or was he, like every person in the world had good and bad traits? I don't promote idolising human beings, but having a statue of them is not idolising them.

And more importantly, why not judge someone based on what was the norm in their time? If we were born in the 15th century Europe chances are we would have been racist and sexists too. Does that make us inherently bigots? Or is it because just about everyone thought like that back then, as wrong as it sounds to us now.

By that logic, we should burn everything associated with a civilization because most if not all of them were built on the back of the ordinary people or slaves. They don't understand how absurd their revisionist ideas are.

[Myesyats]

I regret posting on this thread already.

I come from a leftist family (you'd call my parents far left in the 80s) but I find the politics are so polarised these days that I don't fit in anywhere.

We've seen these shifts all throughout history and I'm pretty sure this will backfire eventually. I share your view since I appear so far removed, it turns out.

[Young Kaz]

I regret posting on this thread already.

I come from a leftist family (you'd call my parents far left in the 80s) but I find the politics are so polarised these days that I don't fit in anywhere.

Welcome to the angstly (not brave) new world! There is no grey area inbetween, if your opinion doesn't fit the narrative even a little bit you're far left or far right. Normal people don't count anymore,only the voices of the loud minority dictate what's supposed t be right or wrong
I disagree with you or sports though. They blurt their loud slogans to shut us down. You shouldn't leave. Expose the "opinions" for what they are.
Also, don't pay much attention to YoungKaz, he's got an identity problem. For him, the movement is a sanctuary to deflect from his reality.

Better this world than the world you live in. You know where racism "Isnt a problem Germany" and when pointing out an actual football club in your country refused service to Japanese people out of fear of Corona(despite the fact that Germany has ALWAYS had more cases and deaths from COVID19) was seen as just another opportunity to try to deflect and point towards racism in Japan?

Your brand of Normal is over I'd wager.

[Babun]

I regret posting on this thread already.

I come from a leftist family (you'd call my parents far left in the 80s) but I find the politics are so polarised these days that I don't fit in anywhere.

Welcome to the angstly (not brave) new world! There is no grey area inbetween, if your opinion doesn't fit the narrative even a little bit you're far left or far right. Normal people don't count anymore,only the voices of the loud minority dictate what's supposed t be right or wrong
I disagree with you or sports though. They blurt their loud slogans to shut us down. You shouldn't leave. Expose the "opinions" for what they are.
Also, don't pay much attention to YoungKaz, he's got an identity problem. For him, the movement is a sanctuary to deflect from his reality.

Better this world than the world you live in. You know where racism "Isnt a problem Germany" and when pointing out an actual football club in your country refused service to Japanese people out of fear of Corona(despite the fact that Germany has ALWAYS had more cases and deaths from COVID19) was seen as just another opportunity to try to deflect and point towards racism in Japan?

Your brand of Normal is over I'd wager.

Cry me a river, cutie. Try deflecting from the real problem again: in JAPAN, CHINA and KOREA racism is practiced OPENLY. Do something about it. At least, we discuss or condemn racist acts over here. THEY DON'T CARE.
Now, deal with it, Japan is the most openly racist country in the world, especially against Chinese people. Chinese threw people of African origins out of their homes in China during the Wuhan Virus epidemic. Why not mention that? Not enough balls? Do you know nay people from Africa? Have you ever wondered or asked how they live? I say because some of my best friends are from India, Ethiopia and Cameroon.

[Young Kaz]

Welcome to the angstly (not brave) new world! There is no grey area inbetween, if your opinion doesn't fit the narrative even a little bit you're far left or far right. Normal people don't count anymore,only the voices of the loud minority dictate what's supposed t be right or wrong
I disagree with you or sports though. They blurt their loud slogans to shut us down. You shouldn't leave. Expose the "opinions" for what they are.
Also, don't pay much attention to YoungKaz, he's got an identity problem. For him, the movement is a sanctuary to deflect from his reality.

Better this world than the world you live in. You know where racism "Isnt a problem Germany" and when pointing out an actual football club in your country refused service to Japanese people out of fear of Corona(despite the fact that Germany has ALWAYS had more cases and deaths from COVID19) was seen as just another opportunity to try to deflect and point towards racism in Japan?

Your brand of Normal is over I'd wager.

Cry me a river, cutie. Try deflecting from the real problem again: in JAPAN, CHINA and KOREA racism is practiced OPENLY. Do something about it. At least, we discuss or condemn racist acts over here. THEY DON'T CARE.
Now, deal with it, Japan is the most openly racist country in the world, especially against Chinese people. Chinese threw people of African origins out of their homes in China during the Wuhan Virus epidemic. Why not mention that? Not enough balls?

And in Europe they paid terrorists MILLIONS to keep people like Carthage out. How many terrorists have Asia paid to keep Africans out?

Mentioning Asia racism every time somebody calls Europe out for what it is doesnt change the facts of the world. You, yourself, had "Corona-chan is coming for you" imposed on a Japanese womans face as your signature for over a month during one of the worst humanitarian crisis the world has ever seen, when Japanese people were facing COVID19 based discrimination in your own country, so if we want to have an honest discussion on race then we can because its obviously something Germany needs to have.

[BarrileteCosmico]

The statue thing is happening here in Belgium and with good fucking reason. There are statues of Leopold II all over the country, most erected well after his death.

Have you signed this petition yet?

https://www.change.org/p/het-gemeentebestuur-van-ekeren-zet-een-standbeeld-van-toby-alderweireld-op-de-plaats-van-leopold-ii-in-ekeren?

[Nishankly]

Wait, did Gandhi kill thousands or own slaves? If he did then please do take his statues down.

[BarrileteCosmico]

In Boston they beheaded a Columbus statue. The mayor announced it will sit in storage and not be replaced.

While as I said before I have no problem getting rid of these statues, I dont think storage is the solution, they should be put somewhere that contextualizes the history and explains the changing perception around him. "Deleting" history is bad, but that doesn't mean that these men should be celebrated, there is a middle ground that can be walked here.

[rincon]

The statue thing is happening here in Belgium and with good fucking reason. There are statues of Leopold II all over the country, most erected well after his death.

Have you signed this petition yet?

https://www.change.org/p/het-gemeentebestuur-van-ekeren-zet-een-standbeeld-van-toby-alderweireld-op-de-plaats-van-leopold-ii-in-ekeren?

LMAO i didnt know of this. Now this is a petition I can get behind

[BarrileteCosmico]

And what has that accomplished? That Gandhi is a bad man? Or was he a good man? Or was he, like every person in the world had good and bad traits? I don't promote idolising human beings, but having a statue of them is not idolising them.

And more importantly, why not judge someone based on what was the norm in their time? If we were born in the 15th century Europe chances are we would have been racist and sexists too. Does that make us inherently bigots? Or is it because just about everyone thought like that back then, as wrong as it sounds to us now.

It accomplished a lot. I know where you live its probably normal to hate people with dark skin, but Africans should not be expected to have statues of such people in their lands.

I regret posting on this thread already.

I come from a leftist family (you'd call my parents far left in the 80s) but I find the politics are so polarised these days that I don't fit in anywhere.

this section is a lot more tolerable of you put Betty in your ignore list, he has a habit of making wild accusations with no basis in reality

[Nishankly]

Wait, did Gandhi kill thousands or own slaves? If he did then please do take his statues down.

Funniest part about Danjyr's argument is that Gandhi has his own debates in India alone

Regardless comparing him to King Leopold and these slave owners and killers makes me question to what lengths he's trying to go satisfy his arguments or thoughts. Its the same to me as equating Churchill to Hitler.

[Young Kaz]

And what has that accomplished? That Gandhi is a bad man? Or was he a good man? Or was he, like every person in the world had good and bad traits? I don't promote idolising human beings, but having a statue of them is not idolising them.

And more importantly, why not judge someone based on what was the norm in their time? If we were born in the 15th century Europe chances are we would have been racist and sexists too. Does that make us inherently bigots? Or is it because just about everyone thought like that back then, as wrong as it sounds to us now.

It accomplished a lot. I know where you live its probably normal to hate people with dark skin, but Africans should not be expected to have statues of such people in their lands.

I regret posting on this thread already.

I come from a leftist family (you'd call my parents far left in the 80s) but I find the politics are so polarised these days that I don't fit in anywhere.

this section is a lot more tolerable of you put Betty in your ignore list, he has a habit of making wild accusations with no basis in reality

More basis in reality than a bunch of people patting themselves on the backs about how multiculturalism doesnt work while basking in the benefits of it.

But allah knows best.

[Babun]

I regret posting on this thread already.

I come from a leftist family (you'd call my parents far left in the 80s) but I find the politics are so polarised these days that I don't fit in anywhere.

Welcome to the angstly (not brave) new world! There is no grey area inbetween, if your opinion doesn't fit the narrative even a little bit you're far left or far right. Normal people don't count anymore,only the voices of the loud minority dictate what's supposed t be right or wrong
I disagree with you or sports though. They blurt their loud slogans to shut us down. You shouldn't leave. Expose the "opinions" for what they are.
Also, don't pay much attention to YoungKaz, he's got an identity problem. For him, the movement is a sanctuary to deflect from his reality.

Better this world than the world you live in. You know where racism "Isnt a problem Germany" and when pointing out an actual football club in your country refused service to Japanese people out of fear of Corona(despite the fact that Germany has ALWAYS had more cases and deaths from COVID19) was seen as just another opportunity to try to deflect and point towards racism in Japan?

Your brand of Normal is over I'd wager.

Let's differentiate, something you haven't done for long. There is general racism as intolerance towards other races other than the own one and specific racism like Afroamericans in the USA or whites in South Africa which are historically driven.

General racism:
My Ethiopean friend has gotten his PHD in microbiology and is working over here in Hamburg. My Indian friend finished his master in production management and ist working at Airbus. I'd say racism is prevalent here but as far as I can see an African or Indian can find work and live here without much prejudices.
Meet USA, everything is possible except Afroamericans and Latinos face real racism everywere.
Meet Japan, you won't find work as a Gajin and never as a dark skinned person in agood position. Most people will never look at you as equal unless you are Japanese yourself. Even if you are half Japanese, you'll be discriminated against like no tomorrow. Tolerance for other cultures is almost zero, prejudices 100%. Economically, Japan is a 1st world country, culturally still in middle ages. By the way, China is much more advanced in that aspect. They heavily cooperate with other countries locally and culturally. Still, they're openly racist against dark skinned people. In South Korea, dark skin is considered subhuman, they buy and try every kind of cosmetics to look brighter. The foreigner situation is better than in Japan but by not that much. Most of the politeness is superficial.
Meet Africa, it isn't country but a subcontinent just like India. South Africans kill or discriminate openly other Africans from poorer African Countries who migrate there. One of the most atrocious acts found place some months ago in Africa.

So choose your battles wisely, either stay with the topic of local racism in the USA or tackle the general racism in the world. There, you'd find the problem is much more prevalent in East Asia and some rundown European countries than in the US.

[Arquitecto]

Kaz what is your deal, man. Must you turn every thread into the context you are accused of?

As for bringing down the statuses, it is giving the idea to people they are accomplishing something but merely destroying physical property that really has no relevance anymore.

[Nishankly]

General racism:
My Ethiopean friend has gotten his PHD in microbiology and is working over here in Hamburg. My Indian friend finished his master in production management and ist working at Airbus. I'd say racism is prevalent here but as far as I can see an African or Indian can find work and live here without much prejudices.

This is highly untrue atleast for the Indian perspective, just because you see 1 Indian dude in a company doesn't mean all Indians can find work easily. Majority of Indians in Europe either own shops based on 2nd gen unskilled labor/family Immigration in the 1990s or 2% of them find jobs with an actual Corporate Employer if they ever get a chance for an interview.

I have major reasons to go all out here as an Indian who has worked in Europe looking for entry level jobs in Corporate HQs and is still looking for a job as I graduate in France, but your post is nothing more than a butter layer on a shit sandwich.

[Young Kaz]

Welcome to the angstly (not brave) new world! There is no grey area inbetween, if your opinion doesn't fit the narrative even a little bit you're far left or far right. Normal people don't count anymore,only the voices of the loud minority dictate what's supposed t be right or wrong
I disagree with you or sports though. They blurt their loud slogans to shut us down. You shouldn't leave. Expose the "opinions" for what they are.
Also, don't pay much attention to YoungKaz, he's got an identity problem. For him, the movement is a sanctuary to deflect from his reality.

Better this world than the world you live in. You know where racism "Isnt a problem Germany" and when pointing out an actual football club in your country refused service to Japanese people out of fear of Corona(despite the fact that Germany has ALWAYS had more cases and deaths from COVID19) was seen as just another opportunity to try to deflect and point towards racism in Japan?

Your brand of Normal is over I'd wager.

Let's differentiate, something you haven't done for long. There is general racism as intolerance towards other races other than the own one and specific racism like Afroamericans in the USA or whites in South Africa which are historically driven.

General racism:
My Ethiopean friend has gotten his PHD in microbiology and is working over here in Hamburg. My Indian friend finished his master in production management and ist working at Airbus. I'd say racism is prevalent here but as far as I can see an African or Indian can find work and live here without much prejudices.
Meet USA, everything is possible except Afroamericans and Latinos face real racism everywere.
Meet Japan, you won't find work as a Gajin and never as a dark skinned person in agood position. Most people will never look at you as equal unless you are Japanese yourself. Even if you are half Japanese, you'll be discriminated against like no tomorrow. Tolerance for other cultures is almost zero, prejudices 100%. Economically, Japan is a 1st world country, culturally still in middle ages. By the way, China is much more advanced in that aspect. They heavily cooperate with other countries locally and culturally. Still, they're openly racist against dark skinned people. In South Korea, dark skin is considered subhuman, they buy and try every kind of cosmetics to look brighter. The foreigner situation is better than in Japan but by not that much. Most of the politeness is superficial.
Meet Africa, it isn't country but a subcontinent just like India. South Africans kill or discriminate openly other Africans from poorer African Countries who migrate there. One of the most atrocious acts found place some months ago in Africa.

So choose your battles wisely, either stay with the topic of local racism in the USA or tackle the general racism in the world. There, you'd find the problem is much more prevalent in East Asia and some rundown European countries than in the US.

This is a lie. There are "Gaijins" both light skin and dark skin working in many companies all around Japan. In fact the team I am a lead on consists of a Nigerian and a Lebanese and they both live in Tokyo.

In fact, you will be treated much better in Tokyo than a person from Tokyo is treated in your country. There wasnt any German shops attacked because of Corona in Japan unlike Japanese shops being attacked for Corona in Germany.

Also again, like a kid doing something wrong and saying others kids do it also, this does not change the fact. You bringing up Asia when your country is called out for being racist does not change the fact that your country is racist.

One need only look at the social media of Naomi Osaka when she lost at the US open to the social media accounts of dark skinned Germans when they lose and its night and day. She gets nothing but love from Japanese people. They get called every kind of affe and other derogatory terms when they lose. You cant say anything about how Japan treats people right now man.

[Babun]

General racism:
My Ethiopean friend has gotten his PHD in microbiology and is working over here in Hamburg. My Indian friend finished his master in production management and ist working at Airbus. I'd say racism is prevalent here but as far as I can see an African or Indian can find work and live here without much prejudices.

This is highly untrue atleast for the Indian perspective, just because you see 1 Indian dude in a company doesn't mean all Indians can find work easily. Majority of Indians in Europe either own shops based on 2nd gen unskilled labor/family Immigration in the 1990s or 2% of them find jobs with an actual Corporate Employer if they ever get a chance for an interview.

I have major reasons to go all out here as an Indian who has worked in Europe looking for entry level jobs in Corporate HQs and is still looking for a job as I graduate in France, but your post is nothing more than a butter layer on a shit sandwich.

Racism is more prevalent in France. There are 3rd generation arabs or "beurettes" as they say with perfect degrees who don'teven get a look at their CVs. I know more than one Indian from TUHH (technical university Hamburg Harburg). They didn't have a problem finding a job over here if they managed to speak German to an acceptable degree. So again, local racism is very different. And there are places with more racism than in USA in Europe like I said in the previous post.

[Thimmy]

The indians I’ve met here have almost exclusively been doctors, surgeons, or in real estate. That’s only my personal experience, though. Indians seem to be a minority in the minority, so I won’t claim to have met many of them. I had two indian classmates in college - one’s a surgeon, the other one’s a doctor today. The one who’s a doctor comes from a family of doctors, and her older brother was my personal doctor/public practitioner at one point in time.

My cousin’s best friend is indian. She’s a doctor, and so are her two siblings. I don’t know the official statistics for Indians and labor here, but they seem to be doing pretty well for themselves. Indians and unskilled labor is something I associate with American movies and TV shows, where they’re often depicted as shop owners or cab drivers.

That said, many of the cab drivers in the city where I currently reside, are from Pakistan. One of my closest friends is Pakistani, and I get the impression that the difference between Indians and Pakistani people here, is simply that Indians generally have higher ambitions.

[Nishankly]

I guess this would be an extreme tangent of a discussion here for a topic that's seen many, lets leave it at this.

[Sri]

General racism:
My Ethiopean friend has gotten his PHD in microbiology and is working over here in Hamburg. My Indian friend finished his master in production management and ist working at Airbus. I'd say racism is prevalent here but as far as I can see an African or Indian can find work and live here without much prejudices.

This is highly untrue atleast for the Indian perspective, just because you see 1 Indian dude in a company doesn't mean all Indians can find work easily. Majority of Indians in Europe either own shops based on 2nd gen unskilled labor/family Immigration in the 1990s or 2% of them find jobs with an actual Corporate Employer if they ever get a chance for an interview.

I have major reasons to go all out here as an Indian who has worked in Europe looking for entry level jobs in Corporate HQs and is still looking for a job as I graduate in France, but your post is nothing more than a butter layer on a shit sandwich.

Racism is more prevalent in France. There are 3rd generation arabs or "beurettes" as they say with perfect degrees who don'teven get a look at their CVs. I know more than one Indian from TUHH (technical university Hamburg Harburg). They didn't have a problem finding a job over here if they managed to speak German to an acceptable degree. So again, local racism is very different. And there are places with more racism than in USA in Europe like I said in the previous post.

I am Indian origin, now naturalized German, having studied/lived/worked here for over a decade. NOBODY I know in my university/career network has been subjected to racism/discrimination in this time, or been shut off *because* they are brown. The closest brush has been instances of people assuming/asking (rather politely) if I am in IT because Indians are good at it (stereotype).

I know people who have claimed to be discriminated, but mostly because it was an easy call out. Anecdotally, a friend swore she had been subjected to racism by a series of landlord evicting her for "Indian cooking with too much oils and spices". I visited her once and decided I wouldn't eat a morsel from that kitchen anyway.

Having traveled extensively across Europe: I think it is much better in Germany than in France, or some other more "conservative" regions (not countries per se).

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