Re: The Coronavirus Thread - Part 2

[Myesyats]

I'm mostly worried about my savings. I hope this virus doesnt shake up the economy too much, wanted to buy gold coins/bars because they always hold value in times of crisis but missed out.

[Jay29]

'Boris Johnson was following medical advice' proved to be a load of bullshit.

This is quite a disturbing read.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/10-days-that-changed-britains-coronavirus-approach

Man, just screw our country. Bickering and in-fighting with lives on the line, while other, more successful countries managed to agree on a single strategy and carry it out.

South Korea and Taiwan, back in Jan: Assumed the virus would spread, carried out mass testing to isolate the infected
UK in Jan: Are Liverpool the greatest PL team ever? and BREXIT

South Korea and Taiwan now: Virus under control, barely any community spread, low number of deaths
UK now: Massive community spread, deaths trending the same way as Italy, still not testing unless serious

We were complacent as fuck. Now we're scrambling to get things under some semblance of control. It all could have been avoided. Makes me mad just thinking about it.

[VivaStPauli]

'Boris Johnson was following medical advice' proved to be a load of bullshit.

This is quite a disturbing read.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/10-days-that-changed-britains-coronavirus-approach

i said this before. the government know nothing about this kind of stuff and can only go on the things doctors and scientists tell them. then asking them to choose what scientists to follow is just crazy

I'm sorry to get political at these times, but Unique, this is SO textbook conservative logic.

#1 Government doesn't do shit!
#2 Elect person who says "Government doesn't do shit!"
#3 Have incompetent prime minister/president (Cameron, Trump, Johnson)
#4 Observe that Government doesn't do shit.
#5 Repeat step#1

You guys could've all just not voted for people flaunting their own incompetence. But no, you all thought Johnson and Trump's lack of qualifications were  signs of them being "outsiders" who aren't "tainted" by whatever is the problem with the political class.
Meanwhile boring old establishment candidates elsewhere are weathering the crisis by listening to the technocrats, and it's not working well exactly, but better.

Edit: I'm aware that a virus pandemic is outside everyone's control, and it's nobody's fault, not even Trump's, I'm just saying morons of that ilk aren't going to make us any more well prepared. Motherfucker disbanded the center for epidemiology FFS

[Pedram]

@Vibe did you get the result of your test?

[CBarca]

^^we live in a simulation, and science and institutions dont give the only answers and more people need to wake up (or actually are waking up to it in recent years, and this event will only make it more apparent) -- it's so obvious

Super obvious!

[Babun]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/22/coronavirus-what-happens-to-peoples-lungs-when-they-get-covid-19

might be of interest

[Jay29]

"Ministers had been on notice that drastic action might be needed since the virus first emerged in China's Wuhan province in December. In January, Whitty told the cabinet: 'It either stays in China or it will get everywhere'. For two months the government had time to prepare, but Johnson's instincts were to resist a life-changing crackdown. 'There was a lot of talk about how this was just a bit of flu,' one senior Tory recalled.

"At a private engagement at the end of February, Cummings outlined the government's strategy. Those present say it was 'herd immunity, protect the economy and if that means some pensioners die, too bad'."

Yikes.

First they underestimated the virus.

Then they decided against preparing because Johnson didn't want "life-changing crackdown", even though it wouldn't have been necessary at that point. See: South Korea.

Then when it became a problem, the PM's aid, who isn't a medical expert btw, decided herd immunity was the way to go and Boris listened!

All that public guff about "following the science" and "evidence" was them basically dithering until the modelling scared them into action.

Ironic, that the age group most likely to vote Tory were about to be left to die by them.

[RealGunner]

Jesus

They are as much to blame for the deaths as the virus itself

[RealGunner]

Italy has reported 651 new deaths from coronavirus, taking the total number of dead to 5,476, the government says.

[Thimmy]

I think it's extremely unlikely that the world's most populated country, not to mention the country where this virus originated, has somehow managed to almost eradicate the virus already. The numbers they are reporting are highly suspicious

I know relatively little about the country, but I know they go out of their way to control the media and make sure that nothing negative is said about China without consequences. You cannot access foreign websites in the country without a VPN because the authorities insist on supervising public discussions for this particular reason. It's not only the most populated country on the planet, but naturally, it's also a country where the divide between rich and poor is quite extreme, and I don't see any explanation as to how they'd be better fit to fight viruses, any more than other countries. I'd assume it's quite the contrary. I guess we'll never know the truth.

[Hapless_Hans]

I think it's extremely unlikely that the world's most populated country, not to mention the country where this virus originated, has somehow managed to almost eradicate the virus already. The numbers they are reporting are highly suspicious

I know relatively little about the country, but I know they go out of their way to control the media and make sure that nothing negative is said about China without consequences. You cannot access foreign websites in the country without a VPN because the authorities insist on supervising public discussions for this particular reason. It's not only the most populated country on the planet, but naturally, it's also a country where the divide between rich and poor is quite extreme, and I don't see any explanation as to how they'd be better fit to fight viruses, any more than other countries. I'd assume it's quite the contrary. I guess we'll never know the truth.

I absolutely share that suspicion, and no question the numbers are cooked some degree (EVERYONE healed, really? No single new infection, really? ), but I read an interview with the China correspondent of a German news outlet today who basically said that while no question the numbers are important propagandist tool (the news of no new infection prepares the people for being ready for lifting of measures) as is the blame-shifting towards exterior forces, he also said that by and large China HAS contained the outbreak, and that it would not be able to hide it if they hadn't. He also said they're especially wary of an outbreak in Beijing so they're really paying close attention.
No idea what's true obviously, but it gave me pause that a German mainstream journalist (and German journalism orthodoxy towards China is usually one of denunciation and suspicion) would say that he does not deem this success story to be fake on the whole

[Art Morte]

Merkel will be in quarantine, she had a doctor appointment on Friday and the doctor has now tested positive...

US senator Rand Paul is positive. As is Maroune Fellaini and Placido Domingo.

Saw some pictures on twitter of nurses in New York City dressing in bin bags due to a lack of protective gear.

[Pedram]

Senator Rand Paul has tested positive for COVID-19. He is feeling fine and is in quarantine. He is asymptomatic and was tested out of an abundance of caution due to his extensive travel and events. He was not aware of any direct contact with any infected person.

— Senator Rand Paul (@RandPaul) March 22, 2020

The virus has a twisted sense of humor.

[Unique]

"Ministers had been on notice that drastic action might be needed since the virus first emerged in China's Wuhan province in December. In January, Whitty told the cabinet: 'It either stays in China or it will get everywhere'. For two months the government had time to prepare, but Johnson's instincts were to resist a life-changing crackdown. 'There was a lot of talk about how this was just a bit of flu,' one senior Tory recalled.

"At a private engagement at the end of February, Cummings outlined the government's strategy. Those present say it was 'herd immunity, protect the economy and if that means some pensioners die, too bad'."

Yikes.

First they underestimated the virus.

Then they decided against preparing because Johnson didn't want "life-changing crackdown", even though it wouldn't have been necessary at that point. See: South Korea.

Then when it became a problem, the PM's aid, who isn't a medical expert btw, decided herd immunity was the way to go and Boris listened!

All that public guff about "following the science" and "evidence" was them basically dithering until the modelling scared them into action.

Ironic, that the age group most likely to vote Tory were about to be left to die by them.

are you thinking Corbyn would have stopped the virus before it started. Corbyn couldn't even control the anti Semites in his own party so I'm not sure he could have controled this virus. I think some people are using this virus as a stick to beat Johnson with because they voted for Corbyn. Everyone in the world has tried everything they can think of to stop the virus and none of it has worked. So all governments and all scientists have no clue how to stop it.

[Hapless_Hans]

I actually somewhat wanted England to go the 'herd immunity' pathway only so that in the end we can see and judge which was the better approach, for the future.

Heard Netherlands want to do something similar, let's hope they stick with it and don't start with one approach and then switch to the other when things are getting bad, like those morons in the UK government

[Unique]

I actually somewhat wanted England to go the 'herd immunity' pathway only so that in the end we can see and judge which was the better approach, for the future.

Heard Netherlands want to do something similar, let's hope they stick with it and don't start with one approach and then switch to the other when things are getting bad, like those morons in the UK government

am I right in thinking the France Spain Italy and Germany have more deaths and more infected than the UK.

[Hapless_Hans]

I actually somewhat wanted England to go the 'herd immunity' pathway only so that in the end we can see and judge which was the better approach, for the future.

Heard Netherlands want to do something similar, let's hope they stick with it and don't start with one approach and then switch to the other when things are getting bad, like those morons in the UK government

am I right in thinking the France Spain Italy and Germany have more deaths and more infected than the UK.

not quite, and also it's not a competition

[Unique]

I actually somewhat wanted England to go the 'herd immunity' pathway only so that in the end we can see and judge which was the better approach, for the future.

Heard Netherlands want to do something similar, let's hope they stick with it and don't start with one approach and then switch to the other when things are getting bad, like those morons in the UK government

am I right in thinking the France Spain Italy and Germany have more deaths and more infected than the UK.

not quite, and also it's not a competition

I know it's not but it's just funny looking at the stats when you say the UK government are a bunch of idiots when you have a government that are every bit as dumb running your country. Just another excuse to bash the Brits

[Jay29]

are you thinking Corbyn would have stopped the virus before it started. Corbyn couldn't even control the anti Semites in his own party so I'm not sure he could have controled this virus. I think some people are using this virus as a stick to beat Johnson with because they voted for Corbyn. Everyone in the world has tried everything they can think of to stop the virus and none of it has worked. So all governments and all scientists have no clue how to stop it.

I haven't mentioned Corbyn at all. Whether he would have done a better job or not is both impossible to tell and besides the point. Yes, I voted Labour at the previous election, but please don't assume this is a Corbyn > Johnson thing, because it's not.

What you're saying simply isn't true. South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore have gotten their situations under control and currently the majority of their new cases are imported from other countries. We'll see soon the effects of European countries who opted to be proactive as well.

What did they do? Test early, isolate early, trace as many contacts possible, urge the population to distance themselves where possible. What did we do? Nothing. Our government sat there thinking it was a flu and hoping it wouldn't leave China. Then they put money over human lives, until it became apparent how much human life would be lost. It's a failure of the whole institution, not just Johnson.

[RealGunner]

Really getting out of hand in the UK. Disgusting.

disgusting scenes in ASDA Havant today when it should have been a time for the elderly and nhs staff, please retweet to name and shame pic.twitter.com/C3NYC7Zj93

— Chris Lewis (@ChrisTheLewis) March 22, 2020

[Hapless_Hans]

am I right in thinking the France Spain Italy and Germany have more deaths and more infected than the UK.

not quite, and also it's not a competition

I know it's not but it's just funny looking at the stats when you say the UK government are a bunch of idiots when you have a government that are every bit as dumb running your country.  Just another excuse to bash the Brits

Four things
1
I hate our government and its members so it gives me no extra pleasure to point out that
2
the virus has 94 deaths in Germany, with a rate of death/infected rate of 0.4%, while the UK has 2.5 times as many deaths, 234, with a death rate of 4.6% ( means your testing is much worse)
3
it really is not a contest and I 100% do wish your government's approach will be, or would be, super successful, be it by dashing competence or sheer dumb luck, with as little affected as possible, as I don't need UK to have sick people so I can prove point,
and
4
I have watched people of your government in action and speaking and therefore I do know for a fact that they are morons, except for Boris, who's more of a sadist than a moron

[Unique]

By the time the scumbag Chinese government admited they had a virus it was already here. Also far more people fly in and out of Britain than they do south Korea so it will spread faster here than there anyway. Plus all the things the likes of South Korea have done to fight the virus we are now doing. Italy Spain France and Germany are doing yet how has that worked out for them. Yes Johnson could have banned people from going to China and banned people from China coming to the UK. But you can't do that these days because that's racist. You blame it all on the British government for how they handled it yet other countries handled it different and were hit far worst. No one knows how to beat it and no one knows what they are doing and that's the problem.

[Unique]

not quite, and also it's not a competition

I know it's not but it's just funny looking at the stats when you say the UK government are a bunch of idiots when you have a government that are every bit as dumb running your country.  Just another excuse to bash the Brits

Four things
1
I hate our government and its members so it gives me no extra pleasure to point out that
2
the virus has 94 deaths in Germany, with a rate of death/infected rate of 0.4%, while the UK has 2.5 times as many deaths, 234, with a death rate of 4.6% ( means your testing is much worse)
3
it really is not a contest and I 100% do wish your government's approach will be, or would be, super successful, be it by dashing competence or sheer dumb luck, with as little affected as possible, as I don't need UK to have sick people so I can prove point,
and
4
I have watched people of your government in action and speaking and therefore I do know for a fact that they are morons, except for Boris, who's more of a sadist than a moron

forget about death numbers that just comes down to the age and health of the person if they die or not we are talking about stopping the spread and when each country are doing. Britain has close to 6000 infected and Germany has close to 19,000 infected. So it's safe to say the British have no clue how to stop it and the Germans are just as dumb.

[Hapless_Hans]

So it's safe to say the British have no clue how to stop it and the Germans are just as dumb.

Let's agree on that and wish the best of luck and health to one another

btw, Germany has now 25000 confirmed infected

[RealGunner]

Okay this is big

[Jay29]

By the time the scumbag Chinese government admited they had a virus it was already here. Also far more people fly in and out of Britain than they do south Korea so it will spread faster here than there anyway. Plus all the things the likes of South Korea have done to fight the virus we are now doing. Italy Spain France and Germany are doing yet how has that worked out for them. Yes Johnson could have banned people from going to China and banned people from China coming to the UK. But you can't do that these days because that's racist. You blame it all on the British government for how they handled it yet other countries handled it different and were hit far worst. No one knows how to beat it and no one knows what they are doing and that's the problem.

Mate, I'm sorry, but there're so many things wrong with this mentality.

If more people fly to the UK than Korea, than is that not even more reason to take proactive action? If you knew there was any chance of this virus coming in, would you sit there and do nothing? Take temperatures, have tests, isolate people coming back from China as a precaution and test them, etc.

We, Italy, France, Germany, etc. aren't doing what Korea have, that's the point. Korea are still testing, still contact tracing, etc. whereas we're not even testing people unless they're seriously ill. Huge difference. Korea didn't even have to lockdown.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2020/03/13/south-korea-sees-coronavirus-slowdown-without-a-lockdown-but-with-nearly-250000-tests/#180e3001576b

The reason we're locking down is because we lost control. We missed our window to gain control and now we're playing defence.

Banning travel to and from a nation that was the epicentre of the virus is not racist and anyone calling it that would have need their head examine. This is not a valid reason to not do it.

I blame our government simply because it's our government. I know nothing of France, Spain, Germany et al. I think their citizens should be asking serious questions as well but that's just me. But I'm deeply frustrated because we could see this coming and did nothing.

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