Official: Ernesto Valverde sacked

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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:43 pm

Okay, I agree that he flopped royally in the CL, but let's not forget that he did also manage to win the league twice in a row.

And while I do think that La Liga, especially in the last couple years, was far from being competitive and Barça had it way too easy, it's still a major trophy.

From their board's perspective, it's really hard to fire a coach who wins you at least one major trophy every year; even if he shits the bed in the CL.

If he loses the league to Zidane this year and somehow fucks the CL up again, he's as good as gone, that's for certain.

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Post by futbol on Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:55 am

@danyjr wrote:When on average you spend €200 million a year you better be either winning or playing attractive football. Every player he has signed has been dog shite while he doesn't play La Masia graduates who have been every bit as good as the multi million signings if not better. Every semi-decent player Barcelona still have are from the times before Valverde joined.

Don't even get me started on the tactics, he actually makes Ole look decent.


Do you even follow Barca? Valverde hasn't made a single signing and he's giving chances to a 16 year old regularly.

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Post by Casciavit on Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:05 am

He should've been sacked after the Roma debacle.

Although I do feel for him his job is quite tough. There aren't that many good coaches out there right now either. So I do understand why they haven't sacked him, but the club clearly needs a new impetus and direction.

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Post by futbol on Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:42 am

I want to see a serious club that sacks its domestic double winning coach because he ended up drawing a CL tie 4-4. Laughing

Meanwhile "elite tacticians" like Pep, Allegri or Tuchel can get knocked out by Monaco, Ajax or Ole's Manchester United C team and no one bats an eyelid.

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Post by Doc on Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:03 am

Let's put things in perspective:

Barcelona under Valverde is still leading in La Liga (be it on goal difference), topped his CL group with Inter and Dortmund in it unbeaten and would more than likely win Copa Del Rey again. Also, 2 time defending La Liga winners while beating Madrid 3 outta 4 El Clasico's including a Manita at the Camp Nou last season (if Pep did this, he'll be a fucking God right now in Barcelona). The players actually like him and the board has really no known issues with him. Most of Barcelona fan base (on the net anyway) wishes he gets fired so the club could hire non achievers like Setien, Koeman, Arteta or Pochettino or even bad fits like Allegri.

Meanwhile in Manchester, Ole is legit not cutting the mustard at Utd (no matter what Thimmy thinks) and yet, Ole has legit support in the fan ranks, like, a good portion too. Don't mind Ole would not win a damn thing this season, folks still see something in him that screams "yeah, he'll guide this club to glory again".

I think the only reason Valverde ain't quit is because he ignores the dumb ass media who still thinks this is 2009-2011 Barcelona and the dumb ass fans and listens to the two things that actually matter: his players and his bosses and neither has an issue with him.

Also, Pep ran away when things got a bit tough for him during a time when they had everyone bar Puyol in their legit prime. What makes anyone think he'll come to this version of Barcelona?!
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Post by Casciavit on Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:40 am

You know, I'll never understand why futbol has his head so far up Valverde's ass. There's nothing interesting about Valverde ffs. He's a boring midtable coach. At least with Pep and Klopp fanboys you can make the argument their teams are fun to watch, WTF does Valverde have going for him?

Then again I do actually know why. It's just Futbol trying to be contrarian as per usual. This guy will never agree with the popular fan opinion. That's his gimmick.

Yes he should've been sacked then because losing a 3-0 lead to Roma is shameful. Fucking Roma. One of the meme teams in Serie A.

There's nothing overly impressive with winning La Liga with Messi. A scrub like Tata Martino was one match away from doing it with a fat Messi too. Valverde's also had the luck of competing against the worst Madrid team since 2013. Tito won it while coaching tactics on whatsapp. When you spend 100M on a different star every window, and still have the spine of one of the best teams ever, then damn right you should be winning La Liga. That's the bare minimum.

Either way, I don't think Valverde's a bad coach. He's quite good. He has a pretty good record against big teams too. But fact is when pressure is highest his team is choking.

There's a stink surrounding him. That negative energy revolves around his reign alone. He lost two 3-0 leads, not one, BUT TWO. And he isn't losing leads being the weaker team, he's losing leads being the BETTER team. That's inexcusable.

You can make the argument that it's a mentality issue with the players and sure I can agree with that. But how tf do you expect that mentality to change with the same coach who by all accounts doesn't push the players and is relatively lax with them. Hence why they want him to stay in the first place.

There's nothing to gain with Valverde anymore. It's a shame you're too blind to see it pal.
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Post by Casciavit on Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:59 am

I get the logic behind keeping Valverde though, don't get me wrong.

An unathletic, old team filled with champions will want a calm and risk-averse coach. He'll keep things steady and drama free. Good dressing room influence + tactical mind seems like a good combination.

He'll help guide Barca to a few league titles but fact is he won't guide them to any CL. You know what you'll get with him.

That's what I like about Madrid fans. They don't accept that sort of mediocrity. You think Valverde lasts after the Liverpool loss if it was Madrid? Fuck no.

I understand there's a lack of managerial alternatives but sometimes you have to take risks. The upside of the coach who can clean up shop and lit a new bigger flame > the coach who is keeping the old flame barely alive.

With all of Barca's resources it's a shame that certain fans and the board don't have any intention of aiming higher. This process of lowering their standards is just the start. When Messi retires don't expect Barca to win another CL for a long, long time. Quote me on this.
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Post by futbol on Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:21 am

Cas is another good example how people live in the past. Read his argument: "Tata almost won the league". "Tito won the league coaching via WhatsApp".

My dude, Tata hat Neymar, Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Sanchez and Alves in his team, bar Xavi all in their primes. What are you even comparing? And still didn't win a tiny trophy and failed to beat Atletico on 6 occasions.

Tito had Messi in 91 goals in the calendar year scoring form with Iniesta in the form of his life, breaking his assist record, of course that team smashed all the La Liga minnows on autopilot.

So what does 2020 Barca have in common with those teams? NADA. In fact the narrative was completely different before Valverde was appointed. We lost the league and lost 0-4 and 0-3 to PSG and Juventus in the CL despite having MSN. Then the 2nd or 3rd best player in the world (however you want to see it) left Barca while Madrid had won 3 CLs in a row and a league double. The narrative was certainly not: "Meh, Barca can walk the league easily with any coach." The narrative was: "We are in deep shit." Fast forward 2 years later with another GOAT player in Iniesta retiring and other key players being even older and the narrative is suddenly: "On course for 3 league titles in a row? Meh, Valverde is awful." Rolling Eyes

I'm not contrarian for the sake of it, I apply simple logic, whereas others still keep talking about what Tata almost won 7 years ago.

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Post by futbol on Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:38 am

There is another simple fact that people can't get their head around apparently.

Barca has always been an awful CL away team. The best Barca of all time lost away to Arsenal and got spanked by Inter. Followed by funny losses like 0-2 to Milan led by Niang, followed by 0-4 to PSG and 0-3 to Juventus.

The only difference to Valverde is that those games were all first leg away so Barca could salvage some of those results at home. Which, even if we failed to progress, made it look "close".

If last season Liverpool at Anfield was the first leg and we lost 0-4 and then made it 3-0 at home, the narrative would be completely different ("almost made it, Démbéle fucked it up infront of the empty net") despite exactly the same result. But first leg Camp Nou and 2nd leg Anfield => Barca choked, Valverde out.

I'm sorry if I appear contrarian but the general football audience and Barca "fans" in particular are not the brightest bulbs whereas I am, so that might explain it.

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Post by danyjr on Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:02 pm

Tata is a shit coach and so was Vilanova. Average at best and nowhere near coaching an elite club. You're comparing turd with subturds and saying "look how polished this turd is".

While the opinion that this squad is the most inferior squad Barça have had in recent years is valid, a club that has spent so much has no excuse to be made a mockery of by any team. I don't care if Valturde didn't make the signings himself, do you think a big name coach would accept some numpty sporting director to make decisions for him? But Valturde does, and that makes Fartomeu and his company happy with the yes man that Valturde is.

I can't speak for Barcelona fans, but as a neutral your team isn't even enjoyable to watch any more. Winning and playing ugly is one thing, being outplayed while playing ugly is another. And it has a lot to do with the coach. He is the one who sets the mentality of the players, he is the one who sets the captain to work in his absence on the pitch. Which top coach have we seen throw away leads like that at CL grand stage consistently? When the heads drop at Barça there ain't nobody to boost the players. Valverde just sulks on the side while Messi just stays quiet and tries to beat 11 players on his own. Compare that to the animated figure of Klopp on the side while Henderson shouts at his team mates. If I wanted to model Barça on FIFA I would put mentality, work rate and aggression at 0. As a tactician he is not a bad coach, but as a coach who would work with players' minds, he is as bad as Tata and Vilanova.

And please no more of this "I am the only Barcelona fan with a valid opinion because I have been watching this team before my balls sagged" rhetoric Laughing
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Post by Doc on Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:29 pm

That's comparing personalities though Dany. Klopp is animated, that's him. He would have been animated as a manager at Home Depot. Valverde, since I remember him at Athletic, was more laid back and for what it is worth, the players he coaches has no issues with this approach especially His Majesty Lionel Messi.

I can see why the International fan base would be all mopey about the football, it ain't pretty and sometimes, not even effective but they'll come a time when it'll be shit AND they won't be winning La Liga's or reaching far in cup competitions. They'll be no Valverde, Suarez, Rakitic to blame for these things either.
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Post by BarcaLearning on Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:49 pm

This game again showed that we been stagnant and just doing more of the same, game in game out, no surprises there. Not at all surprise we lost. Makes me sad more actually is watching Zidane doing so much progress with Real this season. I think ppl still underrate Zidane. Real appear to be playing not that good this season, but so was much of their run in the 3 CLs time, but he makes them effective and able to grind out results and beat the opposition, no matter what.

I think the majority of us agreed Valverde had to go in the summer, for what reason he didnt and I myself made my mind up early from watching that nothings changed this season that we just gonna be more of the same or decline more this season, so all this is just panning out. Hes just a dead man walking as a pundit put it nicely, as is much of the team u feel overall.

Hes not terrible as many said, but we Barca need better. This season is written off bar a lot of luck and more miracles from Messi & Suarez than we might win something. All Im looking forward to is who the new manager is in the summer and how we will continue to rebuild the team.
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Post by danyjr on Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:15 pm

@Doc wrote:That's comparing personalities though Dany. Klopp is animated, that's him. He would have been animated as a manager at Home Depot. Valverde, since I remember him at Athletic, was more laid back and for what it is worth, the players he coaches has no issues with this approach especially His Majesty Lionel Messi.
I wasn't specifically talking about the animated nature of Klopp. It's just sometimes you need a kick in the backside when you're playing like shit, mental preparation before a big match so your players aren't complacent, and some encouragement when the players are down. When Liverpool scored that 4th goal it felt like neither of the Barcelona players gave a fuck, or they were just shocked by how better Liverpool were. They weren't prepared to deal with it, despite having gone through the exact same scenario a season prior. A good coach or a captain would get the team to get their shit together (well before that in fact). I am not a huge fan of Sergio Ramos and his behaviour when losing is by no means exemplary but as a captain you need someone to get your blood boiling again when you're struggling in a match, and Sergio is naturally very good at that. Barça don't have anyone on their bench or on the pitch with that kind of character.

You might think I'm putting too much emphasis on the mental side of the game by in my opinion all the best coaches have that in them. Valverde does not.
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Post by rincon on Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:35 pm

@futbol wrote:I want to see a serious club that sacks its domestic double winning coach because he ended up drawing a CL tie 4-4. Laughing

Meanwhile "elite tacticians" like Pep, Allegri or Tuchel can get knocked out by Monaco, Ajax or Ole's Manchester United C team and no one bats an eyelid.

Pep is a bald fraud, the Ajax loss was Allegri's last CL match with Juve, and absolutely no one (except Sports) respects PSG. Wouldn't call that "not bating an eyelid".

Losing 3-0 consecutively like that is massive choking after having destroyed the opponents in the first game. Proper choking, cant believe he survived both losses at the club.
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Post by Myesyats on Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:39 pm

Barcelona have offered Xavi the possibility of coaching the first team next season. [cat radio]

It's all coming together Proud
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Post by Myesyats on Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:10 pm

Barcelona want Al-Sadd boss Xavi to replace Valverde as the head coach immediately. [marca]

everyone reporting this now hmm
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Post by Kaladin on Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:09 am

Xavi has been a terrible coach for Al-Sadd.
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Post by Perucho21 on Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:14 am

Xavi? What about the greatest River Plate coach in history and Messi's future best friend Marcelo Gallardo?
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Post by Myesyats on Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:42 pm

Muhammad Ghulam Al Balushi (sporting director Al-Sadd): "Yes, there are negotiations between Barcelona and Xavi going on right now. We wish him success wherever he goes."

Barcelona are preparing to fire Valverde on Monday if Xavi agrees to become the new coach. [cuatro]
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Post by Arquitecto on Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:55 pm

Knowing Xavi he is applying his obvious principles to players nowhere near skilled or talented enough to play them. That may be his only excuse.

I rate Valverde as highly as Futbol and agree with most of his enlightening points but he is not the right man at the moment for Barça and once you lose the general respect or reverence of the locker-room, there is no coming back.

But for many slating them as they are they obviously did not see how he functioned in Athletic.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:05 pm

Xavi rofl

this is going to be good
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Post by rincon on Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:22 pm

0 confidence in Xavi becoming a top coach.
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Post by Myesyats on Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:28 pm

That's good because barca is interested in a steady-the-ship, kinda average coach and not a top coach.
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Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:43 pm

If Xavi takes over now it's obviously because they are hoping he can help them win trophies or Valverde would have stayed till the Summer when his contract was expiring anyways.

Valverde still has the support of the big names in the dressingroom so you can't blame it on that either. It's obvious they are making a kneejerk reaction. It might work, Xavi will focus on Barca keeping possession which will protect them on counters. It might not be enough for CL but it'll definitely be enough for all the domestic competitions
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:46 pm

@rincon wrote:0 confidence in Xavi becoming a top coach.


same here lmao

no chance
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Post by Myesyats on Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:43 pm

Anything is better than being stuck in a dead end with Turdverde for another season. If you don't take risks, you don't drink champagne.
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