Manchester United 1 - 1 Bayern Munich

Mourinho/Moyes/Di Matteo syle

RedOranje wrote:

jibers wrote:

ExtremistEnigma wrote:Bayern couldn't win against a midfield that consisted of 72 year old Ryan Giggs.. MY SIDES.

Bayern might be the best team there is at the moment, but they're not miles apart from the second best.

Yea but it wasnt about fm because we ceded possession straight away and defended in numbers. Moyes is fine when he has to be negative. It's his fortay. The problem he can't coach teams to play on the front foot. Barcelona struggled against teams that stood off" don't understand why people surprised. I èxpect the same thing in the return leg.

That's a fair point, honestly.

Also, you slipped up a wee bit.

Yea. Also meant to write it wasn't About central mf. You can always tell the people that don't understand football. Said to all my mates that I don't expect a high scoring game. In the league, united ha to attack and are the proactive side, which Moyes is not. The cl suits him far better because he can be as reactive as he wants, just like we were under SAF in the cl. Bayern will win the game, but I won't be surprised if it's a higher score because we actually have to score now.

jibers wrote:

RedOranje wrote:

jibers wrote:

ExtremistEnigma wrote:Bayern couldn't win against a midfield that consisted of 72 year old Ryan Giggs.. MY SIDES.

Bayern might be the best team there is at the moment, but they're not miles apart from the second best.

Yea but it wasnt about fm because we ceded possession straight away and defended in numbers. Moyes is fine when he has to be negative. It's his fortay. The problem he can't coach teams to play on the front foot. Barcelona struggled against teams that stood off" don't understand why people surprised. I èxpect the same thing in the return leg.

That's a fair point, honestly.

Also, you slipped up a wee bit.

Yea. Also meant to write it wasn't About central mf. You can always tell the people that don't understand football. Said to all my mates that I don't expect a high scoring game. In the league, united ha to attack and are the proactive side, which Moyes is not. The cl suits him far better because he can be as reactive as he wants, just like we were under SAF in the cl. Bayern will win the game, but I won't be surprised if it's a higher score because we actually have to score now.

Again.

I'm beginning to doubt whether you're actually a Liverpool supporter, you know.   

RedOranje wrote:

jibers wrote:

RedOranje wrote:

That's a fair point, honestly.

Also, you slipped up a wee bit.

Yea. Also meant to write it wasn't About central mf. You can always tell the people that don't understand football. Said to all my mates that I don't expect a high scoring game. In the league, united ha to attack and are the proactive side, which Moyes is not. The cl suits him far better because he can be as reactive as he wants, just like we were under SAF in the cl. Bayern will win the game, but I won't be surprised if it's a higher score because we actually have to score now.

Again.

I'm beginning to doubt whether you're actually a Liverpool supporter, you know.   

I'm both

Like my mentor Scous Manc

Jibers as a fellow Red I find it very offensive that you are showing in the slightest support for Manchester United.

Attend church with me on Sunday and repent.

Well said. SAF had the perfect balance of being reactive in Europe and proactive in PL. Moyes has a peculiar reactive philosophy which was good enough for a club like Everton, but he is not able successfully implement and transition that into this United side. Having past-it players at his disposal doesn't help his case either.

Anyway, i think you have to praised what United did today overall. Their gameplan was to sit back, press and capitalize on counter. It all went extremely well, and they could have been up 2 goals after the first half.

Bayern , the big bad ogre Jibers wants us to fear looked tame and hardly knew how to create chance. United are lacking quality surely, but they still managed to counter Bayern a great number of times.

Mr Nick09 wrote:Anyway, i think you have to praised what United did today overall. Their gameplan was to sit back, press and capitalize on counter. It all went extremely well, and they could have been up 2 goals after the first half.

Bayern , the big bad ogre Jibers wants us to fear looked tame and hardly knew how to create chance. United are lacking quality surely, but they still managed to counter Bayern a great number of times.

LOL, how did Madrid do when teams sat back last year? How did Barcelona do in 2012 when every team they played camped? It is what it is. You are more open to counters obviosuly if you are the sole team attacking. Arsenal almost knocked Barcelona at their peak out in 2011 by just camping. It took the ref sending RVP to open up the game. Bayern are still the best tem. Will Madrid cede possession if they play? Will Barcelona? Nope. That's why I think Pathetico and Chelsea will fare better against them.

Arquitescu wrote:Jibers as a fellow Red I find it very offensive that you are showing in the slightest support for Manchester United.

Attend church with me on Sunday and repent.

TBH I never hated Liverpool. I've been a UNited fan even when we hadn't won the league for 20+ years. Always seen the Pool rivalry as pathetic. The only team I really don't want to win is City. I'm a football fan first before I'm a United fan. Said Rodgers was the only British coach that could actually coach properly. Probably because he studied abroad. As long as City don't win the league I really don't give a *bleep* tbh.

I personally dont think Bayern are the best team, that's my opinion, but that's a meaningless title. THey are the current champions and it's all that matter.

When he game is played tho, there is a tactical match up to deal with, and however good Bayern are supposed to be, they are lucky to leave Old Trafford tonight with just a draw.

Dear Arsenal, Chelsea, City, and Liverpool fans,

I have no doubt you feel the warmest affection for our club in these hours, for increasing the likelihood of a long and effective spell of David Moyes as manager of Manchester United.
Please feel free to express your gratitude in the form of letters, gift baskets, flowers etc.
Any items should be sent to

FC Bayern München e.V.
Direktion Medien und Kommunikation

Säbener Str. 51-57
D-81547 München

Thank you very much.

Should you feel obliged to thank me personally in the form of monetary donations, please pm me so I can give you my bank details.

With kind regards,
Hans

ioilersrock448 wrote:

Winter is Coming wrote:Nothing against Jupp, but people seem to have a small memory Jupp side other then thrashing us and Juventus, they had even games against other teams, they drew or won by 1 goal against all the clashes VS Dortmund, they beat Arsenal and then lost to them at home as well.

All this shoot, shoot, shoot, how did that fair for them in 2012 final? 41 shots and 9 on target? Or the UEFA Super Cup earlier this season? 30 some odd shots and 19 on target still went to PK something like that.

It creates more chances than trying to play around a team like United. If we play Chelsea we are in big trouble because this tiki taka nonsense likely won't find a way through. Also playing around at the back is nervy and just concedes chances.

1-1 in Manchester is a great result though; we have the advantage.

I didn#t read your whole exchange yet, sure it's about Pep><Jupp etc pp, but I have to say it feels like our players actually have no clue how to create actual goal scoring opportunities at the moment.

This is not very good football. It's a decent result, but Utd had the better chances and we were utterly toothless.

Let's just say the treble doesn't defend itself, our players will actually have to step it up quite a bit if they want to have a chance of retaining the title.

Mr Nick09 wrote:I personally dont think Bayern are the best team, that's my opinion, but that's a meaningless title. THey are the current champions and it's all that matter.

When he game is played tho, there is a tactical match up to deal with, and however good Bayern are supposed to be, they are lucky to leave Old Trafford tonight with just a draw.

Fine lines. This is why no team has ever retained the CL. Being the best means nothing if you can't put win it. Ask Barcelona in 12, ask us in 09, ask Juve in 97 and 98. Fine margins are the reason no team has done this yet. They are the best, but even the best fall prey to teams that park men in their half.

We were the best team last year, that much is clear.
Playing like today we're not the best, of course not.

Since the beginning of 2014 I feel like we rarely get out of second gear.
We only do it when absolutely necessary, i.e. after we concede until we get one back.

But that makes you doubt after a while if there are any higher gears there in the first place..

Hapless_Hans wrote:We were the best team last year, that much is clear.
Playing like today we're not the best, of course not.

Since the beginning of 2014 I feel like we rarely get out of second gear.
We only do it when absolutely necessary, i.e. after we concede until we get one back.

But that makes you doubt after a while if there are any higher gears there in the first place..

Teams adapt. Last year you had the luxury of teams not sitting back against you. This year is harder, same thing every great teams face.

Fair play, Hans.  

jibers wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:We were the best team last year, that much is clear.
Playing like today we're not the best, of course not.

Since the beginning of 2014 I feel like we rarely get out of second gear.
We only do it when absolutely necessary, i.e. after we concede until we get one back.

But that makes you doubt after a while if there are any higher gears there in the first place..

Teams adapt. Last year you had the luxury of teams not sitting back against you. This year is harder, same thing every great teams face.

Yep.
But first off all this 'best team in the world' stuff is nonsense anyway and the sooner it stops the better. As long as that doesn't come at the expense of us going out lol.
But the latest games should level the expectation playing field a little..

Then there are a lot of things going on.
Last year we played with crazy intensity, this year we don't. That's what happens I guess after you won it all.
That means, you run a little less, you take it a little slow etc.
I personally think we will again step it up in games where we are not supposed to be as clear cut favourites as in the Arsenal and Utd ties. We don't seem to be capable to live up to this role, which on the other hand is ok. Who says we have to?

Not all players in good form, also because of injuries. We'll see.

RED wrote:Fair play, Hans.  

Haha, Red, I told you didn't I?

Seriously, great performance by you.

Should remove any doubt that the reason you're losing home game after home game in the league is not lack of quality, but lack of motivation and problems with pressure, plus players playing against their manager.

Hapless_Hans wrote:

jibers wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:We were the best team last year, that much is clear.
Playing like today we're not the best, of course not.

Since the beginning of 2014 I feel like we rarely get out of second gear.
We only do it when absolutely necessary, i.e. after we concede until we get one back.

But that makes you doubt after a while if there are any higher gears there in the first place..

Teams adapt. Last year you had the luxury of teams not sitting back against you. This year is harder, same thing every great teams face.

Yep.
But first off all this 'best team in the world' stuff is nonsense anyway and the sooner it stops the better. As long as that doesn't come at the expense of us going out lol.
But the latest games should level the expectation playing field a little..

Then there are a lot of things going on.
Last year we played with crazy intensity, this year we don't. That's what happens I guess after you won it all.
That means, you run a little less, you take it a little slow etc.
I personally think we will again step it up in games where we are not supposed to be as clear cut favourites as in the Arsenal and Utd ties. We don't seem to be capable to live up to this role, which on the other hand is ok. Who says we have to?

Not all players in good form, also because of injuries. We'll see.

Yes, but you played with teams attacking you more. Remember when you faced BVB in the QF and Klopp switched to a 433 and decided to sit deep. Bayern did nothing and created 0 chances all game and you need a Robben wonder goal to take you through. When teams park, it goes more from tactical to individual moments. Thats the way it is. You did well. Again these fine Margins is why no team gas ever retained the league. Madrid were in a worse state in 98 when they win the CL. They were dire in the league and Juventus were the defending champions and everyone thought it was jUves to lose. Madrid showed up and Juve flopped in another final. Not saying it has any relation but these things are decided by tiny margins. Again in a game were bot teams try to play pro active football, Bayern would wollop any team. The problem is when both teams already know the game plan, United were always going to be reactive so Bayern were always going to struggle. The next leg will be much more open for you because we have to be proactive, something Moyes doesn't know how to do.

That is why I said from the start Chelsea and Atletico will cause you trouble. Madrid and Barcelona will try and take the front foot will get torn apart because they will try and be proactive.

that's all true.
Still, our final passes and our overall attacking is TOO lack luster and phlegmatic at the moment.
That's fine overall, as the first mission obviously is to control the game, but we need more speed and more determination, at least in spells, again. I simply think we're missing intensity at the moment, which is typical for the situation, and I hope it will come back in the semis.
This also leads to us being so prone to errors and counters, and losing chalenges, at the back, which is very annoying.
Boateng can, and did, do much better than he did tonight, for example.

tbh I thought Martinez was awful and has to GTFO of the CB spot immediately. Everything in the 2nd half was out wide to Robben or to alaba and the ball in was lackluster making Mueller or Mandzukic utterly useless for the most part. The attacking creativity through the middle is not there and the crosses were horrific.

Well, Martinez should be on his way out of Bayern if he cares about continuous playing time anyway.

He doesnt quite fit the profile pep wants for his pivot, and he isnt a very good CB. He still has plenty of quality so he will play and fill in where he can like he did tonight for Dante but technically, he isnt in bayern 1st 11 anymore.

You never really created from the middle though. It was always through the flanks. That's why Thiago offered a different dimension. Thats gone now so you are going to have to play slihtly faster now imo to break.

In the post match conference Pep just said that he played with many ebglish teams and its always fdifficult to break down teams that have 8-9 men in the box.

Moyes

ioilers, i agree. It's been like that in a few games now, also against Arsenal. But well, I don't mind if we don't cover ourselves in glory against Moysie as long as we proceed.

Nick, true. But still, having Martinez as a rotational player is fantastic. If he decides that is not enough for him after a while I couldn't blame him, but there are worse thing than being a rotational player for us.

Jibers, true again. And at the moment Ribery and Robben are not as much in form as they were end of last year, in November, partly because of injuries. And a lot of our attacking threat depends on them being on their best.

Götze is the one who could play through and dribble in the middle, in Thiago's absence, but he needs to improve.
He too was better in autumn/early winter.

Not to mention that the version of Bayern that won the CL didnt have Kroos playing so deep. on top of it, Javi was bombarding forward all the time, something Piggy doesnt do with the same intensity, although he scored tonight. Maybe Thiago could have helped, maybe not, he was nowhere vs Arsenal. This is the CL jibers, not some pub game vs ausburg.

I think the Piggy-Kroos-Lham midfield is very stale. None of those guys can beat their marker in 1v1 in the last third to create a chance, which theoritically Thiago or Gotze can do. Maybe Pep got it wrong there to begin the game. Not enough movements from the middle to trouble man utd CMs, they were quite at ease defending (except for big fel).

About Kroos, is it true that he was upset at being subbed out tonight as well?

Mr Nick09 wrote:Not to mention that the version of Bayern that won the CL didnt have Kroos playing so deep. on top of it, Javi was bombarding forward all the time, something Piggy doesnt do with the same intensity, although he scored tonight. Maybe Thiago could have helped, maybe not, he was nowhere vs Arsenal. This is the CL jibers, not some pub game vs ausburg.

I think the Piggy-Kroos-Lham midfield is very stale. None of those guys can beat their marker in 1v1 in the last third to create a chance, which theoritically Thiago or Gotze can do. Maybe Pep got it wrong there to begin the game. Not enough movements from the middle to trouble man utd CMs, they were quite at ease defending (except for big fel).

About Kroos, is it true that he was upset at being subbed out tonight as well?

Bayern arent a cm team though so that is irrrelevant. Ever since van Gaal came in they are wing based. Most of their attacks are through the wings. Last year they created all their chances from the wing and crossing in. No surprise than Mandzukic was invloved with his heading. He should be starting that next game tbh.