Re: Transfer Rumours

by messixaviesta Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:52 pm

alexjanosik wrote:I think its already been established that our scouting is poor.
Our transfer policy seems to be something like this.
Look in La Masia first.If that fails loook for a La Masia graduate who is doing well elsewhere.If that fails look for a superstar signing.It doesnt even take great scouting to get bargain buys.
All it needed was a cable connection to see that Vertonghen was a bargain for 8 mil.All it needs is a cable connection to see that Sakho is a good option that can pay off big.

But no.We have tunnel vision.We identify a high profile target and its either them or nobody.

I also dont like the Rossell witch hunt and blaming everything on him.Thats a very convenient way to apportion the blame.
I think blame is to be shared,especially when it comes to transfers and Rossell takes very little blame on that.
He is a businessman like Perez,but unlike Perez,he wisely leaves transfers to the coaching staff.Not his fault at all that the coaching staff have been retarded when it comes to transfers.

Rossell has basically gone by what the coaching staff wanted and he has given them everything they wanted.
Lets start with his first year.Pep wanted Ibra gone.Rossell obliged and got Villa instead.Pep gets rid of Yaya and desperately wants Mascherano(GOD alone knows why). Rossell again obliges.Rossell also gets Adriano for Pep.

Next season,Pep again pursues that piece of garbage Fab. Desperately tries to sign him.Rossell obliges once more.
Pep wants Alexis(again GOD knows why).Rossell obliges again.Another summer where Rossell does everything according to the coaching staff's wishes.

Next season,Pep leaves and Tito comes in.Tito wants Alba and Song.Rossell gets him Alba and Song.

This summer.We get Neymar.Almost everyone agrees that we need a crack forward.The coaching staff do nothing to keep Thiago or convince him that he is wanted.Pep comes in and steals Thiago.And somehow Rossell gets all the blame.

So basically,if we look at all the summers Rossell has been in charge,he has gotten every single player the coaching staff has asked for.And now that we are in this mess,we have this revisionism going on.Bunch of nonsense.Now apparently Pep never wanted Fabregas.Apparently Pep never asked for Fab and suddenly its all Rossell's fault that we are stuck with this piece of garbage.Apparently Alexis and Masch are also Rossels fault and Pep never wanted them.

Am I also supposed to believe that Song was not a Tito buy and that Rossell recommended him.

I am not saying that Rossell is entirely blameless.I blame him for somethings.Most imporatant being not convincing Thiago to stay even though the coaching staff didnt want him.Also selling Villa for 5 mil over 3 seasons was a stupid move.
But the revisionist BS needs to stop.If our transfers have been retarded and our squad is in the sorry state it is in, then 99% of the blame goes to Pep and Tito.
Rossell is a businessman and he went by Pep and Tito's advice when it came to transfers(smart move considering they both know far more than him).
Not his fault that Pep and Tito were retarded when it came to transfers.

Awesome post. Said everything that is to be said. Just a couple of minor details. I remember reading that Villa was a Laporta signing. The other is that we can't put 99% of the blame on the coaches because surely Zubi also has some contribution there.

Lastly this summer the coach is an outsider who won't have a powerful voice so soon. Hence if not CB is signed we have to lay the entire blame on Rosell and Zubi. Also Thiago's departure can perhaps partly be blamed on Tito but a large chunk of that is also on Rosell and Zubi. Abidal's departure not being handled better is also their responsibility. So this summer there is a lot of blame we can place at the duo's doors. However I do agree with you that its the coaches who have been largely responsible for the atrocious transfers we have made in the last few summers.

by Donuts Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:52 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:
Sakho wants to leave PSG this summer, according to Le Parisien.

If true do you guys think we will jump the gun on this?

by alexjanosik Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:58 pm

I once again bring up the Perez comparison.
Rossell is a businessman like Perez.But unlike Perez,who is an idiot,he wisely decides to leave the sporting decisions to the coaching staff.
Now who is in that coaching staff?
Pep,a legendary player for us,a man who knows our club inside out,and a visionary coach.
Tito Vilanova,Pep's apprentice and heir to the coaching job.Again a man with vast football knowledge.
And finally the sporting director who is an ex player and legend.
Rossell made the wise move by leaving sporting decisions to men far more knowledgeable than him.Now the sporting director being clueless decides to go by the coaches wishes.
We end up in a mess because the coaches were imbeciles when iit came to transfers.

My question is,how much blame does Rossell get in this?IMO very little. We cant second guess and say that he should not have left all decisions to the coaching staff.At the time I felt it was the right move and would have probably done the same.He left sporting matters to men with a huge amount of knowledge about the game and players.The staff made one stupid decision after another.My question is,how was Rossell to know that at the beginning?

by The Franchise Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:04 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Not surprised by that, Chelsea been linked to him for long.

But Porto have rejected 40m from Monaco...so, I think Chelsea might have to wait a season. I think Porto want to keep him for this season.
if Porto want so much for him, what makes you think we cojld get hkm for cheaper?

Mangala had a much easier time saying no to Monaco then he would have to Barca I imagine.

by alexjanosik Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:05 pm

jd
I appreciate your points.I agree that Rosell shares blame for Thiago's departure.But we disagree on the proportion of blame.
I agree with you that the Abidal situation should have been handled much better.
Also agree with you that if a CB isnt signed this summer,then its entirely Rosell and Zubi's fault.

by The Franchise Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:15 pm

I dont know who is to blame, my opinion is most closest to CB's because I dont have cold hard facts.

But I do understand and agree with Alex's point to a large degree.

I think in the end a few things.

Zubi has done a poor job, because there is no way he has not had a big say in the players we have signed. I read his statements and it becomes obvious.

I read yesterday something from last year, when we signed Alba, where he said "Alba is not an Abidal substitute/replacement"...what does this even mean?

And there are other statements from him which to me indicate a level of involvement which leaves me no choice but blame him.

I understand what Alex says about Rosell, but I also have to go with what CB and DanyJr said...in the end, he is the man in charge. I get that he left things to the correct people (coach, Sporting director) but those guys have done a bad job in selecting players and therefore by default you have to say, Rossell did a bad thing. He also has thrown Cruyff's opinion away, which to me is a mistake and he surely would have had an input, one of which I do personally trust.

by danyjr Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:24 pm

If Alexjanosik's employees make mistakes, it is not just his employees who will get the blame. In fact they will receive a small portion of the blame.

More importantly, Alexjanosik gets blamed for hiring incompetent employees in the first place.

Tell you what, if I put a monkey in charge of running my accounts, will I be able to blame the monkey when I go bust?

by alexjanosik Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:30 pm

danyjr wrote:If Alexjanosik's employees make mistakes, it is not just his employees who will get the blame. In fact they will receive a small portion of the blame.

More importantly, Alexjanosik gets blamed for hiring incompetent employees in the first place.

Tell you what, if I put a monkey in charge of running my accounts, will I be able to blame the monkey when I go bust?

You dont need to lecture me on how things work in a capitalist system.I know that the CEO has to take the blame for the company's failures.So please drop the condescension from your posts.

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:32 pm

alexjanosik wrote:
alfred
Except the Neymar transfer,I dont think Rossell had a say in any other transfer.I also dont agree with your assessment that the sporting director had a 40% say in the transfers.Generally that might be true,but during Rossells tenure,almost all the signings have been at the behest of the coaches.All the major ones have been so.
On scouting,I have already mentioned that it is poor and Zubi can be blamed for that.
I was more talking about the revisionism going on with putting all the blame for our transfers on Rossell.Thats completely unfair.Pep and Tito have to take majority of the blame.

While I agree with the sentiment of what you are saying I still feel that you are discounting Zubi's role. In every interview he has given he talks about the transfer decision process as 'a collaborative work' and ultimately he has the power to say no, as Bayern did to Pep when he requested Neymar. Rosell has responsibility for assigning Zubi.

by messixaviesta Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:33 pm

alexjanosik wrote:jd
I appreciate your points.I agree that Rosell shares blame for Thiago's departure.But we disagree on the proportion of blame.
I agree with you that the Abidal situation should have been handled much better.
Also agree with you that if a CB isnt signed this summer,then its entirely Rosell and Zubi's fault.

Thanks alex.

by danyjr Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:47 pm

alexjanosik wrote:You dont need to lecture me on how things work in a capitalist system.I know that the CEO has to take the blame for the company's failures.

It is not even about capitalism. It is called logic.

alexjanosik wrote:So please drop the condescension from your posts.

by neuro11 Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:12 pm

alexjanosik wrote:
Except the Neymar transfer,I dont think Rossell had a say in any other transfer.I also dont agree with your assessment that the sporting director had a 40% say in the transfers.Generally that might be true,but during Rossells tenure,almost all the signings have been at the behest of the coaches.All the major ones have been so.

But what brings you to such conclusions boldly??

And for neymar's case, it was pep who contacted him first not Rosell.

by jibers Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:13 pm

I would put the blame on all three, probably less on Tito due to his illness. Thiago leaving is one of the biggest farces in modern football. The fact tha Xavi was overplayed as well is just a disgrace. Tito failed tactically in almost every big game and did not rotate the squad properly. Barcelona lost their intensity which for me shows how low la liga has sunk.

by free_cat Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:09 pm

Capoue is going for around 10 million, I wouldn't mind him as our CB and I think he is better than Song at DM.

by free_cat Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:26 pm

alexjanosik wrote:Not his fault at all that the coaching staff have been retarded when it comes to transfers.

He appointed Zubi although he failed at Athletic Bilbao, so it is indeed his fault.

alexjanosik wrote:

Rossell has basically gone by what the coaching staff wanted and he has given them everything they wanted.
Lets start with his first year.Pep wanted Ibra gone.Rossell obliged and got Villa instead.Pep gets rid of Yaya and desperately wants Mascherano(GOD alone knows why). Rossell again obliges.Rossell also gets Adriano for Pep.

Next season,Pep again pursues that piece of garbage Fab. Desperately tries to sign him.Rossell obliges once more.
Pep wants Alexis(again GOD knows why).Rossell obliges again.Another summer where Rossell does everything according to the coaching staff's wishes.

Next season,Pep leaves and Tito comes in.Tito wants Alba and Song.Rossell gets him Alba and Song.

Not true. You are assuming Pep and Tito ask for each and everyone of those transfers and there's no public statements from them asking for these players except Tito asking for Neymar and Pep wanting Cesc in and Ibra out.

Also, Rosell signed Adriano with no one asking for him because they are friends. At the time we had Maxwell and Abidal.

Btw, you are doing quite a lot of revisioninsm, considering Pep never recommended Tito for the job and Tito and Pep actually got evidently angry at each other after that.

IMO, when it comes to signings, I think the blame is mainly on Zubi and Rosell as his superior. The coach has too much work on his everyday tasks, preparing trainings, watching the rivals etc, to scout all the relevant players in the world. He can't really know a player except he plays for a rival, he doesn't have enough time. So it should be the sports director who put on the table other options aside from the big names that everyone knows. We could have signed many players and especially CBs that could have been good enough for Barça and cheap if they scouted or had some audacity (Varane, Koscielny, Marquinhos, Dedé, to say a few CBS that went for peanuts and I think could be good enough for us).

by The Franchise Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:47 pm

free_cat wrote:Capoue is going for around 10 million, I wouldn't mind him as our CB and I think he is better than Song at DM.

Should of signed him instead of Song, now to late. Seems like noone of the really big teams are intrested for some reason.

RG says he struggled last season, not good enough for Barcelona.

The stats say he was one of the best in his position in the world.

I have no opinion, whenever I watched Toulouse he was injured.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:12 pm

RG is right he isn't good enough, not even close.

One of the most overrated DMs going around at the moment.

Don't worry you haven't missed anything here.

You don't need anything other than a CB anyway, the rest will be defined by how you are coached and whether the pressing is back or not.

I have been encouraged by how much more freedom the wide players seem to be getting compared to last couple of seasons though.

Should mean Pedro, Sanchez and Neymar will shine a lot more.

by The Franchise Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:18 pm

I think we need a midfielder tbh. Unless Sergi Roberto can traslate his preseason form to La Liga and even the CL.

I am almost convinced we need a pressing midfielder, with either some physicality or some speed and length.

Wont get one, but I think its missing in our pressing game.

Maybe Sergi Roberto can be that guy, we'll see.

by CBarca Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:26 pm

Regardless of if Capoue is good enough, the president said he's going to Tottenham. He's flying out tomorrow to complete a medical so he's a done deal unless he fails the medical.

I agree on your point Dani.

by Valkyrja Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:29 pm

You guys are missing Keita eco smile

by The Franchise Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:33 pm

We are missing Keita of 09, not Keita of his final season. He did absolutely nothing in that final year.

I am still a little surprised Pep didnt take him to Bayern though.

by Valkyrja Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:34 pm

I still can't believe you have sold Yaya for ~20m

by The Franchise Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:41 pm

25m. The price was fair but I of course agree we should of kept him. But it was impossible.

Yaya may of been okay with Busquets taking over his position, but when Pep played Keita over him it was over. Pep knew better though...after all Keita's humility was worth at least 20 goals a season.

by CBarca Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:43 pm

The Franchise wrote:We are missing Keita of 09, not Keita of his final season. He did absolutely nothing in that final year.

I am still a little surprised Pep didnt take him to Bayern though.

Dani isn't one to make me laugh on the regular but I had a good guffaw with that one rofl

by windkick Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:55 pm

is Zubi on twitter? or RoSell?

by free_cat Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:44 am

Rosell has a twitter, Zubi I don't think so.

On the blame discussion, let's remember that wen Rosell came in, Txiki was the sporting director and he was open to stay.
Rosell fired Txiki and brought Zubi, who had only one previous and failed experience as sporting director.
Txiki made mistakes, as every human being, but I think a big majority of us will agree that he was way better than Zubi as sporting director.

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