Re: God Thread, Pt. III

by stevieg8 Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:25 pm

ACMRox wrote:
rwo power wrote:
If you have a human guy who tortures babies but he is still good to his family, that means he is in fact a good an wise person? Sounds legit.

Doesnt work and you know it.

God, BY DEFINITION, is Infinitely and perfectly wise, kind, just and so on.

So you can't say, "God might exist but he's evil anyway" because part of the definition of God is His kindness and goodness. Believing in God isn't believing that an all-powerful being created the universe. Believing in God is believing that an all-powerful, perfectly wise, kind, and just being created the universe and will judge and reward us all fairly.

It's part of the package mate. That's why I've always dismissed people that say, "I believe in God, but he's evil so I won't follow him." As long as you believe in the Abrahamic God, that's an impossibility.

Ok, so God is by definition benevolent. (This is only your definition, for the record, but I'll run with it).

Seeing as how you haven't responded to the content of RWO's posts, let's try a syllogism:

Premises:
God, by defintion, is benevolent.
Benevolent, by definition, means acting in a manner which treats people well and kindly, and avoiding actions which do the opposite.
God, by definition, is omnipotent.
Omnipotent, by definition, means complete and universal control over things that happen.
Terrible things happen in this world to people who have not been alive long enough to "deserve" it for any action of their own.

Conclusion:
God does not exist.

by VivaStPauli Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:28 am

stevieg8 wrote:Premises:
God, by defintion, is benevolent.
Benevolent, by definition, means acting in a manner which treats people well and kindly, and avoiding actions which do the opposite.
God, by definition, is omnipotent.
Omnipotent, by definition, means complete and universal control over things that happen.
Terrible things happen in this world to people who have not been alive long enough to "deserve" it for any action of their own.

Conclusion:
God does not exist.

I just came into the thread to write this. Thanks for taking it off my hands.

ACMRox believe in god is illogical, and his definition of "god" is an empty term.
The Abrahamitic god is just as real as Bertram Russel's barber from the Barber Paradox, which is exactly the first thing I had to think of.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barber_paradox
God is the barber.

by Bellabong Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:30 pm

This happened to me today and I've been converted.

There's just something about a heart to heart conversation with an intelligent being.

God Thread, Pt. III - Page 16 7ACyY

I'm sure this is the real one out of the 2600+ other gods.

by RedOranje Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:55 pm

Dolphins are evil. Never trust what they say.

by Cruijf Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:11 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:
stevieg8 wrote:Premises:
God, by defintion, is benevolent.
Benevolent, by definition, means acting in a manner which treats people well and kindly, and avoiding actions which do the opposite.
God, by definition, is omnipotent.
Omnipotent, by definition, means complete and universal control over things that happen.
Terrible things happen in this world to people who have not been alive long enough to "deserve" it for any action of their own.

Conclusion:
God does not exist.

I just came into the thread to write this. Thanks for taking it off my hands.

ACMRox believe in god is illogical, and his definition of "god" is an empty term.
The Abrahamitic god is just as real as Bertram Russel's barber from the Barber Paradox, which is exactly the first thing I had to think of.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barber_paradox
God is the barber.

Off topic: The barber paradox is amazing. One of my favorites.

On topic:

...You're missing the point Viva.

If you believe in the ABRAHAMIC God, than that same God being evil is a logical impossibility. So saying I refuse to believe in any god because god must be evil is an irrational and flawed argument. The definition of the Abrahamic God renders that impossible.

So one more time Very Happy

IF you believe in the Abrahamic God, part of the definition of this God makes it a logical impossibility for Him to be evil.

Therefore, using the 'God is evil' argument is an invalid approach to the concept of God, and another example of what I've been saying: Just because you found one god illogical/silly, does not mean that a God cannot exist.

by stevieg8 Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:39 am

I apologize for my typo. Please amend my earlier post to "Conclusion: the Abrahamic God does not exist."

Other Gods might; in fact, I said earlier in this thread that I personally believe in a God. Even if I didn't believe, though, I could not prove through logical theory that they did not.

by VivaStPauli Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:00 am

Which is still my point, ACMRox, the definition of god is illogical in itself.

It contains mutually exclusive attributes, this makes it logically invalid.

But even if that weren't so, we'd still have to discuss the implications of this. Because we've heard again and again in this thread, that absolute morality can only justified by god.

Yet that's the same god giving Aids to babies for shits and giggles. How can any kind of morality, as we recognize it in modern society, be derived from such behaviour?

I put it to you that it can't.

by RealGunner Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:13 pm

Wait, since when did Aids become a natural thing ? It is Man Made isn't it ?

by VivaStPauli Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:17 pm

RealGunner wrote:Wait, since when did Aids become a natural thing ? It is Man Made isn't it ?

Lolwut?

by RealGunner Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:20 pm

http://rense.com/general45/cant.htm

hmm

by VivaStPauli Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:28 pm

RealGunner wrote:

Lol, Horowitz, seriously? That guy is a total nut, first of all his Doctorate is in dentistry, he doesn't know sh*t about virology, and is an esoterical quack.

Among other things, he claims that SARS can be cured by herbs (hint: it can't), and that vaccines in general don't work, and are distributed by the US to sterilize the muslim population.

Besides of the other lunacy of vaccination-denial he... Well, f*ck me, I'll just stop there. Vaccination-denial is harmful as hell and kills more people each year than assault rifles, f*ck that guy.

There's also a thing to be learned from this: when tens of thousands of immunologists, virologists, and pandemicists are contradicted by a single dentist, the dentist is very likely very wrong.

by VivaStPauli Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:33 pm

RealGunner wrote:http://rense.com/general45/cant.htm

Okay, so you deleted the Horowitz video. So let me post another reply:
lol, Cantwell, seriously?
The guy is another vaccination-denying twat, okay, at least he's a dermatologist, and thus has some knowledge of immunology, unlike Horowitz, but that guy's studies have been utterly debunked.

His main 'thang' is that AIDS was originally spread with Hepatitis-vaccines to the American homosexual community, which massively contradicts anything known about the spread of HIV/Aids, including the fact that people who were vaccinated against Hepatitis don't have higher infection rates of HIV/Aids than people who weren't.

by RealGunner Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:55 pm

Yea i realised that video wasn't worth it. You were too quick Razz

by Cruijf Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:08 am

by RedOranje Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:46 am

It'd be funny if it weren't so pathetically wrong.

by VivaStPauli Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:24 am

I don't even know what to make of stuff like that. It's too weird to even properly refute. Just like the Aids thing RG posted. Just baffles me.

by Potential Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:07 pm

I thought you believed in evolution? Evolution's proof is undeniable!

by VivaStPauli Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:17 pm

I... don't even know where to begin.

by bazinga Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:40 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:I don't even know what to make of stuff like that. It's too weird to even properly refute. Just like the Aids thing RG posted. Just baffles me.

I found a wonderful little debunking of that cartoon on reddit. So the person who rolls the snow into shape is considered the "conditions necessary for natural selection" to occur. Think about it, when making a snowman, you selectively choose cleaner snow, snow that is piled higher and snow that is closer to your intended start point. You're not a benevolent God watching over the snowman, you're just enabling the snowman's existence through a set of specific factors. Hence, even in this case, the person making a snowman is analogous to evolution.

by RealGunner Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:43 pm

ACMRox wrote:

by bazinga Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:55 pm

RG mate did you read my post about that cartoon?

by VivaStPauli Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:19 pm

Another counter-argument would be, that a snowman's existence needing a creator is about as meaningful an argument regarding the factuality of evolution as the existance of pocket watches.

That some things require a maker doesn't mean all things do.
But frankly, I don't even know where to start arguing with evolution-denyers, since none of them understand evolution, as far as evidenced by the threats on this forum.

Though granted, none were as ignorant as the Messiah was, regarding evolution.

He actually said the sentence, I thought you'd only hear in the most inbred parts of Kentucky, and asked:
"If we're descended from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?"
You can answer to that factually, or you can just facepalm yourself so hard you break your wrist and neck, permanently ending your own suffering.

by bazinga Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:26 pm

Sort of like this idiot here http://www.upworthy.com/senator-asks-for-proof-of-evolution-discovers-he-doesnt-actually-understand-what

by RealGunner Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:51 pm

bazinga wrote:RG mate did you read my post about that cartoon?

lol don't mind me, i like to laugh at pictures Razz

by VivaStPauli Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:57 pm

bazinga wrote:Sort of like this idiot here http://www.upworthy.com/senator-asks-for-proof-of-evolution-discovers-he-doesnt-actually-understand-what

Yes, very much like that idiot there.

by Cruijf Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:54 am

Firstly: You guys all need to learn how to take a joke.

Secondly: The fact that you guys are even trying to refute this cartoon baffles me, seeing as how it's not even a complete argument.

But while you're in the mood, enjoy:

An atheist buys an ancient lamp at an auction, takes it home, and begins to polish it. Suddenly, a genie appears, and says, “I’ll grant you three wishes, Master.” The atheist says, “I wish I could believe in you.” The genie snaps his fingers, and suddenly the atheist believes in him. The atheist says, “Wow. I wish all atheists would believe this.” The genie snaps his fingers again, and suddenly atheists all over the world begin to believe in genies. “What about your third wish?” asks the genie. “Well,” says the atheist, “I wish for a billion dollars.” The genie snaps his fingers for a third time, but nothing happens. “What’s wrong?” asks the atheist. The genie shrugs and says, “Just because you believe in me, doesn’t necessarily mean that I really exist.”

Why did the atheist throw her watch out the window?
She wanted to see if it was designed intelligently enough to evolve into a bird.

Why did the atheist cross the road?
He thought there might be a street on the other side, but he wouldn’t believe it until he tested his hypothesis.

Knock, knock.
Who’s there?
God.
Who?
God.
Who?
God.
Must be the wind.

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