Islamists attack US embassy in egypt on 9/11

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Post by zizzle Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:33 pm

but seriously, how can you blame muslims when they're been living under US sponsored oppression for so long that they no longer understand what freedom of expression is. For once, the US goverment is not to be blamed here, but i guess no one really understands

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Post by RealGunner Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:42 pm

My problem is that why these protesters never protests against Saudi Arabia :facepalm:


Last edited by RealGunner on Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by zizzle Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:44 pm

Coz thats where the money comes from
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Post by RealGunner Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:49 pm

That country is getting more corrupt with each year. Sad really.
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Post by Potential Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:05 pm

@Arq because I have been to jerusalem half a dozen times, when all you hear is israel should be destroyed, jews should all die and burn, yes there is hatery towards jews!
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Post by zizzle Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:07 pm

well it might help if you guys stop slaughtering them for a while
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Post by Potential Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:11 pm

@zizzle wrote:well it might help if you guys stop slaughtering them for a while

I'm talking about the Israeli Jerusalem side, where everyone holds Israeli passport, I do get where you coming from but why are the christian arab are peaceful still? They get slaughtered but you don't hear this from them, is it that religious education comes after social education? Yes, that's my best guess!
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Post by zizzle Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:14 pm

well lets ignore the fact that christian palestinians get better treatement in schools, jobs and at check points and that their holly places are never closed or threatened.
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Post by TalkingReckless Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:04 pm

@RealGunner wrote:My problem is that why these protesters never protests against Saudi Arabia :facepalm:

Because these so called protesters are mostly uneducated people who think the Saudi's are high class people because they live in Holy lands therefore are pure. While the Saudi's/Wahhabi portray themselves as the only true Muslims and look down on all else.

I personally know a lot of of People in Pakistan and other places who feel like that, have never read the Quran, don't know how to pray. But feel like it's their job to protect Islam from other, these are the people who believe in Blasphemy laws, go attack public properties, create their Islamic groups. They take things into their own hand and try to became the protectors of GOD.

A few years back the Governor of Punjab (PK) was killed because he talked against Blasphemy laws, and a majority of people thought he deserved to die because he slandered Prophet Muhammad's and Quran. When i told these people including my some of the relatives that they have no right to play God and decide the fate of People they just rejected my statements even though i used stories from Quran about Prophet Muhammad and how he forgave people.

And lets not forget the biggest issue, most of those people still haven't let go of their past cultures, the Arabs were all warriors or tribes. They were known to be ruthless. Subcontinent were full of Rajs, Muhgals, Tribal leaders, people in classes etc
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Post by RealGunner Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:21 pm

Legend wrote:
@RealGunner wrote:My problem is that why these protesters never protests against Saudi Arabia :facepalm:

Because these so called protesters are mostly uneducated people who think the Saudi's are high class people because they live in Holy lands therefore are pure. While the Saudi's/Wahhabi portray themselves as the only true Muslims and look down on all else.

I personally know a lot of of People in Pakistan and other places who feel like that, have never read the Quran, don't know how to pray. But feel like it's their job to protect Islam from other, these are the people who believe in Blasphemy laws, go attack public properties, create their Islamic groups. They take things into their own hand and try to became the protectors of GOD.

A few years back the Governor of Punjab (PK) was killed because he talked against Blasphemy laws, and a majority of people thought he deserved to die because he slandered Prophet Muhammad's and Quran. When i told these people including my some of the relatives that they have no right to play God and decide the fate of People they just rejected my statements even though i used stories from Quran about Prophet Muhammad and how he forgave people.

And lets not forget the biggest issue, most of those people still haven't let go of their past cultures, the Arabs were all warriors or tribes. They were known to be ruthless. Subcontinent were full of Rajs, Muhgals, Tribal leaders, people in classes etc

Agreed 100%

I despise the fact people turn a blind eye on what Saudi is doing with the Pilgrims year after year. They have turned Mecca into a Tourist place with the absurd prices of going there. Not to mention they are restricting people to visit the grave of the Prophet along with a detailed tour of the holy places in Mecca n Medina for some reason these days. It's pathetic.
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Post by •MilanDevil• Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:35 pm

@RealGunner wrote:
Legend wrote:
@RealGunner wrote:My problem is that why these protesters never protests against Saudi Arabia :facepalm:

Because these so called protesters are mostly uneducated people who think the Saudi's are high class people because they live in Holy lands therefore are pure. While the Saudi's/Wahhabi portray themselves as the only true Muslims and look down on all else.

I personally know a lot of of People in Pakistan and other places who feel like that, have never read the Quran, don't know how to pray. But feel like it's their job to protect Islam from other, these are the people who believe in Blasphemy laws, go attack public properties, create their Islamic groups. They take things into their own hand and try to became the protectors of GOD.

A few years back the Governor of Punjab (PK) was killed because he talked against Blasphemy laws, and a majority of people thought he deserved to die because he slandered Prophet Muhammad's and Quran. When i told these people including my some of the relatives that they have no right to play God and decide the fate of People they just rejected my statements even though i used stories from Quran about Prophet Muhammad and how he forgave people.

And lets not forget the biggest issue, most of those people still haven't let go of their past cultures, the Arabs were all warriors or tribes. They were known to be ruthless. Subcontinent were full of Rajs, Muhgals, Tribal leaders, people in classes etc

Agreed 100%

I despise the fact people turn a blind eye on what Saudi is doing with the Pilgrims year after year. They have turned Mecca into a Tourist place with the absurd prices of going there. Not to mention they are restricting people to visit the grave of the Prophet along with a detailed tour of the holy places in Mecca n Medina for some reason these days. It's pathetic.

I know some people that love the Saudi's a lot. History of the Saudi family speaks for itself.
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Post by RealGunner Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:38 pm

King Faisal was probably the greatest Saudi King to ever live along with Abdul-aziz imo
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Post by TalkingReckless Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:41 pm

I have nothing against the Kings, but many of the Prince. The Kings so far have all great and done a lot of other around the World. But they have turned a blind eye to their sons and nephews who are free to do whatever they like
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Post by RealGunner Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:44 pm

They have enough power to sort out the mess in Sudan for example but they just turn a blind eye towards it
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Post by •MilanDevil• Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:56 pm

Legend wrote:I have nothing against the Kings, but many of the Prince. The Kings so far have all great and done a lot of other around the World. But they have turned a blind eye to their sons and nephews who are free to do whatever they like

The majority of the rulers are bad, some of them are good but their voice is unheard.
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:22 pm

@RealGunner wrote:My problem is that why these protesters never protests against Saudi Arabia :facepalm:

IIRC First it was Israel then Saudi and now the US


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Post by Yuri Yukuv Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:28 pm

@•MilanDevil• wrote:
Legend wrote:I have nothing against the Kings, but many of the Prince. The Kings so far have all great and done a lot of other around the World. But they have turned a blind eye to their sons and nephews who are free to do whatever they like

The majority of the rulers are bad, some of them are good but their voice is unheard.

All dictators are bad, all arab states have been failures. ME needs radical liberal change.
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:32 pm

Inside the strange Hollywood scam that spread chaos across the Middle East

A group of rightwing extremists aimed to destabilize post-Mubarak Egypt and roil US politicians. They got their wish

Did an inflammatory anti-Muslim film trailer that appeared spontaneously on YouTube prompt the attack that left four US diplomats dead, including US ambassador to Libya Christopher Stevens? American officials have suggested that the assault was pre-planned, allegedly by of one of the Jihadist groups that emerged since the Nato-led overthrow of Libya's Gaddafi regime. So even though the deadly scene in Benghazi may not have resulted directly from the angry reaction to the Islamophobic video, the violence has helped realize the apocalyptic visions of the film's backers.

Produced and promoted by a strange collection of rightwing Christian evangelicals and exiled Egyptian Copts, the trailer was created with the intention of both destabilizing post-Mubarak Egypt and roiling the US presidential election. As a consultant for the film named Steve Klein said: "We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen."

The Associated Press's initial report on the trailer – an amateurish, practically unwatchable production called The Innocence of Muslims – identified a mysterious character, "Sam Bacile", as its producer. Bacile told the Associated Press that he was a Jewish Israeli real estate developer living in California. He said that he raised $5m for the production of the film from "100 Jewish donors", an unusual claim echoing Protocols of the Elders of Zion-style fantasies. Unfortunately, the extensive history of Israeli and ultra-Zionist funding and promotion of Islamophobic propaganda in the United States provided Bacile's remarkable statement with the ring of truth.

Who was Bacile? The Israeli government could not confirm his citizenship, and for a full day, no journalist was able to determine whether he existed or not. After being duped by Bacile, AP traced his address to the home of Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, a militant Coptic separatist and felon convicted of check fraud. On September 13, US law enforcement officials confirmed that "Sam Bacile" was an alias Nakoula used to advance his various scams, which apparently included the production of The Innocence of Muslims.

According to an actor in the film, the all-volunteer cast was deceived into believing they were acting in a benign biblical epic about "how things were 2,000 years ago". The script was titled Desert Warrior, and its contents made no mention of Muhammad – his name was dubbed into the film during post-production. On the set, a gray-haired Egyptian man who identified himself only as "Sam" (Nakoula) chatted aimlessly in Arabic with a group of friends while posing as the director. A casting notice for Desert Warrior listed the film's real director as "Alan Roberts". This could likewise be a pseudonym, although there is a veteran Hollywood hand responsible for such masterpieces as The Happy Hooker Goes Hollywood and The Sexpert who goes by the same name.

Before Nakoula was unmasked, the only person to publicly claim any role in the film was Klein, an insurance salesman and Vietnam veteran from Hemet, California, who emerged from the same Islamophobic movement that produced the Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik. Styling themselves as "counter-Jihadists", anti-Muslim crusaders like Klein took their cues from top propagandists like Pamela Geller, the blogger who once suggested that Barack Obama was the lovechild of Malcolm X, and Robert Spencer, a pseudo-academic expert on Muslim radicalization who claimed that Islam was no more than "a developed doctrine and tradition of warfare against unbelievers". Both Geller and Spencer were labeled hate group leaders by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Klein is an enthusiastic commenter on Geller's website, Atlas Shrugged, where he recently complained about Mitt Romney's "support for a Muslim state in Israel's heartland". In July 2011, Spencer's website, Jihad Watch, promoted a rally Klein organized to demand the firing of Los Angeles County sheriff Lee Baca, whom he painted as a dupe for the Muslim Brotherhood.

On his personal Facebook page, Altar or Abolish, Klein obsesses over the Muslim Brotherhood, describing the organization as "a global network of Muslims attacking to convert the world's 6 billion people to Islam or kill them". Klein urges a violent response to the perceived threat of Islam in the United States, posting an image to his website depicting a middle-American family with a mock tank turret strapped to the roof of their car. "Can you direct us to the nearest mosque?" read a caption Klein added to the photo.

In 2011, during his campaign to oust Sheriff Baca, Klein forged an alliance with Joseph Nasrallah, an extremist Coptic broadcaster who shared his fear and resentment of the Muslim Brotherhood. Nasrallah appeared from out of nowhere at a boisterous rally against the construction of an Islamic community center in downtown Manhattan on September 11, 2010, warning a few hundred riled-up Tea Party types that Muslims "came and conquered our country the same way they want to conquer America".

Organized by Geller and Spencer, the rally was carefully timed to coincide with the peak of the midterm congressional election campaign, in which many rightwing Republicans hoped to leverage rising anti-Muslim sentiment into resentment against the presidency of Obama.

Through his friendship with Nasrallah, Klein encountered another radical Coptic separatist named Morris Sadek. Sadek has been banned from returning to his Egypt, where he is widely hated for his outrageous anti-Muslim displays. On the day of the Ground Zero rally, for instance, Sadek was seen parading around the streets of Washington, DC, on September 11, 2010, with a crucifix in one hand and a Bible implanted with the American flag in the other. "Islam is evil!" he shouted. "Islam is a cult religion!"

With another US election approaching, and the Egyptian government suddenly under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood, Klein and Sadek joined Nakoula in preparing what would be their greatest propaganda stunt to date: the Innocence of Muslims. As soon as the film appeared on YouTube, Sadek promoted it on his website, transforming the obscure clip into a viral source of outrage in the Middle East. And like clockwork, on September 11, crowds of Muslim protesters stormed the walls of the US embassy in Cairo, demanding retribution for the insult to the prophet Muhammad. The demonstrations ricocheted into Libya, where the deadly attack that may have been only peripherally related to the film occurred.

For Sadek, the chaos was an encouraging development. He and his allies had been steadfastly opposed to the Egyptian revolution, fearing that it would usher in the Muslim Brotherhood as the country's new leaders. Now that their worst fears were realized, Coptic extremists and other pro-Mubarak dead-enders were resorting to subterfuge to undermine the ruling party, while pointing to the destabilizing impact of their efforts as proof of the government's bankruptcy. As Sadek said, "the violence that [the film] caused in Egypt is further evidence of how violent the religion and people".

For far-right Christian right activists like Klein, the attacks on American interests abroad seemed likely to advance their ambitions back in the US. With Americans confronted with shocking images of violent Muslims in Egypt and Libya on the evening news, their already negative attitudes toward their Muslim neighbors were likely to harden. In turn, the presidential candidates, Obama and Romney, would be forced to compete for who could take the hardest line against Islamic "terror".

A patrician moderate constantly on the defensive against his own right flank, Romney fell for the bait, baselessly accusing Obama of "sympathiz[ing] with those who waged the attacks" and of issuing "an apology for America's values". The clumsy broadside backfired in dramatic fashion, opening Romney to strident criticism from across the spectrum, including from embarrassed Republican members of Congress. Obama wasted no time in authorizing a round of drone strikes on targets across Libya, which are likely to deepen regional hostility to the US.

A group of fringe extremists had proven that with a little bit of money and an unbelievably cynical scam, they could shape history to fit their apocalyptic vision. But in the end, they were not immune to the violence they incited.

According to Copts Today, an Arabic news outlet focusing on Coptic affairs, Sadek was seen taking a leisurely stroll down Washington's M Street on September 11, soaking in the sun on a perfect autumn day. All of a sudden, he found himself surrounded by four angry Coptic women. Berating Sadek for fueling the flames of sectarian violence, the women took off their heels and began beating him over the head.

"If anything happens to a Christian in Egypt," one of them shouted at him, "you'll be the reason!"

We should move all extremists to Mars, I would pay PPTV to watch that
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Post by RealGunner Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:53 pm

@Yuri Yukuv wrote:
@•MilanDevil• wrote:
Legend wrote:I have nothing against the Kings, but many of the Prince. The Kings so far have all great and done a lot of other around the World. But they have turned a blind eye to their sons and nephews who are free to do whatever they like

The majority of the rulers are bad, some of them are good but their voice is unheard.

All dictators are bad, all arab states have been failures. ME needs radical liberal change.

Dictators =/= Sheikhs

UAE is a failed state ?
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:04 pm

@RealGunner wrote:
@Yuri Yukuv wrote:
@•MilanDevil• wrote:
Legend wrote:I have nothing against the Kings, but many of the Prince. The Kings so far have all great and done a lot of other around the World. But they have turned a blind eye to their sons and nephews who are free to do whatever they like

The majority of the rulers are bad, some of them are good but their voice is unheard.

Failed state and failure are different concepts.

The UAE is a failure in that it is unsustainable, the productivity of its local population is minimal, there are no political rights or freedom of religion for the locals.

All dictators are bad, all arab states have been failures. ME needs radical liberal change.

Dictators =/= Sheikhs

UAE is a failed state ?

Failed state is different than failure, and yes all GCC rulers are dictators. A king is a dictator so is Ali in Iran.

The UAE has failed in creating a sustainable state, low level of productivity for locals and lack of any political right, worker rights or religious rights for its local population.
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Post by RedOranje Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:27 pm

Kings are not the same things as dictators on several levels... huge over simplification to equate the two.
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Post by Cruijf Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:41 pm

@Senor Penguin wrote:Islamists attack US embassy in egypt on 9/11 - Page 2 Enhanced-buzz-wide-28244-1347483313-2

Islamists attack US embassy in egypt on 9/11 - Page 2 Enhanced-buzz-wide-27739-1347483337-4

Islamists attack US embassy in egypt on 9/11 - Page 2 Enhanced-buzz-wide-5606-1347482805-10

Islamists attack US embassy in egypt on 9/11 - Page 2 Enhanced-buzz-wide-27696-1347483363-5

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/12-photos-of-benghazi-citizens-apologizing-to-amer

Heart

I know it's not Egypt but the stories are related.

Heart

I love you Senor. Never thought you'd share a story that refutes Islamaphobia but here we are.

Heart
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:58 pm

@RedOranje wrote:Kings are not the same things as dictators on several levels... huge over simplification to equate the two.

According to Merriam-Webster

"a : a person granted absolute emergency power; especially : one appointed by the senate of ancient Rome
b : one holding complete autocratic control
c : one ruling absolutely and often oppressively"

Middle eastern royalty full fill this criteria
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Post by McLewis Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:37 am

@Yuri Yukuv wrote:
@RedOranje wrote:Kings are not the same things as dictators on several levels... huge over simplification to equate the two.

According to Merriam-Webster

"a : a person granted absolute emergency power; especially : one appointed by the senate of ancient Rome
b : one holding complete autocratic control
c : one ruling absolutely and often oppressively"

Middle eastern royalty full fill this criteria

So by your logic, King Juan-Carlos is a dictator.

As he said, Kings are not dictators. It is merely a title. Many men have used it, with widely vary results. Some our beloved, others are reviled, but you cannot consider all of them dictators based on some dogmatic dictionary definition.
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Post by RedOranje Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:38 am

Dictators are ones who, as your own definition points out, are either given authority or seize it via a coup. Kings are hereditary, rather than seizing power and generally accepted as ruling by divine right.
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:57 am

@McLewis wrote:
So by your logic, King Juan-Carlos is a dictator.

As he said, Kings are not dictators. It is merely a title. Many men have used it, with widely vary results. Some our beloved, others are reviled, but you cannot consider all of them dictators based on some dogmatic dictionary definition.

Juan carlos doesnt yield absolute power like the middle eastern ones do, european monarchs are just relics from the past not really kings.

@RedOranje wrote:Dictators are ones who, as your own definition points out, are either given authority or seize it via a coup. Kings are hereditary, rather than seizing power and generally accepted as ruling by divine right.

So is the first king a dictator?

What if a dictator passes down power to his son like Bashar Al Assad? Is Bashar really a king masquerading as a dictator? How about Kim Jong Un?

It seems to me anyone who dictates without need for reelection or real power checks is a dictator
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