Islamists attack US embassy in egypt on 9/11

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Post by Potential Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:22 pm

Islam is peaceful according to people on this forum, however many Muslims are violent, is it a fair statement to say?

@Yuri it happened before, Salman Roshdi and many others, if Islam is the true religion then isn't the punishment is of god's and not man? You don't see Christians or Jews making the same bounties for people insulting Jesus of Moses.

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Post by RealGunner Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:56 pm

@Potential wrote:Islam is peaceful according to people on this forum, however many Muslims are violent, is it a fair statement to say?

Violence doesn't come from a Religion. Violence comes from within the human nature. If you are saying all the other theists and atheists are peaceful then please, stop living in that illusion



@Yuri it happened before, Salman Roshdi and many others, if Islam is the true religion then isn't the punishment is of god's and not man? You don't see Christians or Jews making the same bounties for people insulting Jesus of Moses.

Correct. That's why the bounties are made without any religious reasons...

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Post by halamadrid2 Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:19 pm

ACMRox wrote:Anyone here care to explain to me why the film against Muhammad (PBUH) is freedom of speech but Kate Middleton's alleged topless photos are now banned? Is that not against your so called, 'freedom of expression'?

Kates topless photos albeit taken from a public road is seen by france's strict laws as insult to their privacy... they were on a private holiday therefore they thought nobody should take photos off them. The image rights are with the person/people who took the photos so they can be sold to toher countries who don't have strict privacy laws to be put in their newspapers and on the net... in England the privacy law is very strict especially if it includes the royal family. so all in all they cannot be completely wiped off and its just PR stunt blown up in their faces

As for this, although its very insulting and very shat low budget movie that i stopped watching after 30 secs and kept fast forwarding it is just freedom of speech, kind of like if you called the queen lesbian, by law she cant do anything to you because its your opinion.
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:45 pm

@Potential wrote:Islam is peaceful according to people on this forum, however many Muslims are violent, is it a fair statement to say?

@Yuri it happened before, Salman Roshdi and many others, if Islam is the true religion then isn't the punishment is of god's and not man? You don't see Christians or Jews making the same bounties for people insulting Jesus of Moses.

I think the Quran is a perfectly reasonable book to base your spiritual life around, however the hadith is degenerate and backwards. What many in the west dont realize is that sunni islam that is the most prevalent today was not the main sect followed when Islam was actually a civilization, instead it violently suppressed all other (non literal, non hadth based) sects until they were destroyed.

Pakistan is supposedly an "ally" and a member of the international community also this man is asking Alqaeda to assassinate someone in the united states, this is unbelievable.

We will probably get some apologists here on the forum finding excuses for him.
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Post by Potential Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:57 pm

@RealGunner wrote:
@Potential wrote:Islam is peaceful according to people on this forum, however many Muslims are violent, is it a fair statement to say?

Violence doesn't come from a Religion. Violence comes from within the human nature. If you are saying all the other theists and atheists are peaceful then please, stop living in that illusion



@Yuri it happened before, Salman Roshdi and many others, if Islam is the true religion then isn't the punishment is of god's and not man? You don't see Christians or Jews making the same bounties for people insulting Jesus of Moses.

Correct. That's why the bounties are made without any religious reasons...


No I am not saying all atheist are peaceful, all am saying is that you don't see headlines such as; atheist murder evangelical christians because he said evolution is a lie.

What I am trying to say is, religious people who are emotionally driven by their belief that their holy book is the ultimate truth are dangerous and violent, whereas the same statement cannot be asserted to atheism.
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Post by TalkingReckless Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:27 am

the bounty has nothing to do with religion more to do with politics....elections in Pakistan are about to come and with many fed up with current government...

that 100k could have been spent to fix all the damage done
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Post by Adit Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:30 am

Legend wrote:the bounty has nothing to do with religion more to do with politics....elections in Pakistan are about to come and with many fed up with current government...
You are telling us that guy is looking for exremist votes and there is a big chunk of extremists there in Pakistan ?
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Post by BeautifulGame Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:35 am

@Adit wrote:
Legend wrote:the bounty has nothing to do with religion more to do with politics....elections in Pakistan are about to come and with many fed up with current government...
You are telling us that guy is looking for exremist votes and there is a big chunk of extremists there in Pakistan ?

And u are surprised? Rolling Eyes
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Post by TalkingReckless Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:19 am

@Adit wrote:
Legend wrote:the bounty has nothing to do with religion more to do with politics....elections in Pakistan are about to come and with many fed up with current government...
You are telling us that guy is looking for exremist votes and there is a big chunk of extremists there in Pakistan ?

not just extremists but those who are uneducated which is a big majority in the villages
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Post by Senor Penguin Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:43 am

@Potential wrote:
@RealGunner wrote:
@Potential wrote:Islam is peaceful according to people on this forum, however many Muslims are violent, is it a fair statement to say?

Violence doesn't come from a Religion. Violence comes from within the human nature. If you are saying all the other theists and atheists are peaceful then please, stop living in that illusion



@Yuri it happened before, Salman Roshdi and many others, if Islam is the true religion then isn't the punishment is of god's and not man? You don't see Christians or Jews making the same bounties for people insulting Jesus of Moses.

Correct. That's why the bounties are made without any religious reasons...


No I am not saying all atheist are peaceful, all am saying is that you don't see headlines such as; atheist murder evangelical christians because he said evolution is a lie.

What I am trying to say is, religious people who are emotionally driven by their belief that their holy book is the ultimate truth are dangerous and violent, whereas the same statement cannot be asserted to atheism.
In other words: There is a logical pathway from religion to bigotry and ignorance. There isn't for atheism, which is simply the lack of a belief in God with no associated ideology.

You have to be fooling yourself if you don't think it's bigotry to consider unbelievers as being lead astray, rebellious and/or heathens. The ignorance is obvious if your religion constantly asserts that there is only one truth - itself - and no other. That is intellectual bigotry as well.

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Post by Cruijf Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:01 pm

Senor:

Don't give me 'intellectual bigotry' nonsense. You believe I am wrong and have an illogical and unreasonable belief do you not? So? That's all we think of you. Wrong and mislead.
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Post by Senor Penguin Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:38 pm

ACMRox wrote:Senor:

Don't give me 'intellectual bigotry' nonsense. You believe I am wrong and have an illogical and unreasonable belief do you not? So? That's all we think of you. Wrong and mislead.
Yes I believe your beliefs are wrong, illogical, unreasonable. If I am bigoted in the sense that I consider your beliefs unfounded then so be it. But do I consider you a heathen? No. Someone who has been lead astray? No. Do I claim you'll burn in hell for all eternity for your beliefs? No. Do I profess to know the absolute truth to our universe? Absolutely not!

As I have said on many other occasions: I can't say there is no God with certainty (such evidence doesn't exist) but I can demonstrate why I think theism is unfounded. For you there is a God with all certainty and if that wasn't enough you also appear to know quite a lot about what he wants from us.

If you were to confess that you cannot know with certainty either then I'd have a lot of admiration for you.

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Post by RealGunner Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:26 pm

@Potential wrote:

No I am not saying all atheist are peaceful, all am saying is that you don't see headlines such as; atheist murder evangelical christians because he said evolution is a lie.

What I am trying to say is, religious people who are emotionally driven by their belief that their holy book is the ultimate truth are dangerous and violent, whereas the same statement cannot be asserted to atheism.

please remind me again why these guys reacting like this. Did they wake up one day and went out to start protesting like maniacs ?

Or were they provoked by the Peaceful atheists ?

Do you seriously think that Groups/People Post things like "Draw Cartoons" And make films like "innocence of Muslim" To express their Freedom of Speech ? Or is it to Provoke People into such actions which they can then redeem as Extremism ?

Do you think Extremists Groups From Palestine/Other Muslims Countries were Created Because they were bored ? Or do you think they were Created because their Land was stolen, Their Families Killed and Raped?

please stop giving me this Bullshit About how Extremism is one sided.

PS ( in no way i am supporting the extremists group btw )


Last edited by RealGunner on Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by rwo power Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:32 pm

Well, I bet they wouldn't get provoked if they wouldn't just react that way all the time.

Caricatures of Christian and actually most other big religions usually cause a yawn and shrug by the huge majority of the followers of these religions.

It is only a very visible part of followers of the Islam that go ballistic about caricatures, so you can be sure there will be even more provocations as their reactions are so totally over the top and predictable. If they just would ignore that stuff, no one would bother to post that as it would get boring.
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Post by RedOranje Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:51 pm

We've covered this before. Profanity rules apply to images just the same as they do to text.
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Post by che Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:54 pm

but but... funny...
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Post by RedOranje Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:04 pm

If you feel like censoring out the profanity then you can repost it, otherwise it's not going to be allowed.
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Post by Potential Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:28 pm

@RealGunner wrote:
@Potential wrote:

No I am not saying all atheist are peaceful, all am saying is that you don't see headlines such as; atheist murder evangelical christians because he said evolution is a lie.

What I am trying to say is, religious people who are emotionally driven by their belief that their holy book is the ultimate truth are dangerous and violent, whereas the same statement cannot be asserted to atheism.

please remind me again why these guys reacting like this. Did they wake up one day and went out to start protesting like maniacs ?

Or were they provoked by the Peaceful atheists ?

Do you seriously think that Groups/People Post things like "Draw Cartoons" And make films like "innocence of Muslim" To express their Freedom of Speech ? Or is it to Provoke People into such actions which they can then redeem as Extremism ?

Do you think Extremists Groups From Palestine/Other Muslims Countries were Created Because they were bored ? Or do you think they were Created because their Land was stolen, Their Families Killed and Raped?

please stop giving me this Bullshit About how Extremism is one sided.

PS ( in no way i am supporting the extremists group btw )

No they were provoked by other religious people, and that'll continue; Sonni and Shi'a provoke each other due to different interpretation of the same book, Christians and catholics; the same. Fact remains, religious has been and always will be the number one reason of violent, no matter what religion.

As long as religious text can be interpreted in more than one way, there will be always violence from a direct pathway to religion, same cannot be said about atheism; you don't see atheist killing agnostics due to their differences.
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Post by Cruijf Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:33 am

@Potential wrote:As long as religious text can be interpreted in more than one way

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors."

"But if they cease (fighting you) let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression"

2:191-193

Please, O resident Isreali expert of my religion, explain to me the 'variant' interpretations of this verse.

It is not Muslims, Christians, Jews, Atheists, or anyone else that kill.

It is humans that kill.
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Post by rwo power Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:07 am

ACMRox wrote:"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors."

"But if they cease (fighting you) let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression"
But where is publishing caricatures or idiotic movies "fighting" or "practicing oppression"?
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Post by Mamad Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:00 am

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Post by Yuri Yukuv Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:49 am

Opinions by what seems to be very liberal young muslim population in Dubai



Its good to remember that there are people who have a different view and actually think, its very important for the west to help these people
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Post by Zealous Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:45 pm

They don't need your help.
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:03 pm

@Zealous wrote:They don't need your help.

How so? It seems they are constantly prosecuted by society and the state in many instances, their numbers are also small.

If middle eastern despots need our help I dont understand how they wouldnt.
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Post by Mamad Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:20 pm

its very important for the west to help these people

Like the way you helped Iraqis or Afghans?
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Post by 7amood11 Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:23 pm

@rwo power wrote:
ACMRox wrote:"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors."

"But if they cease (fighting you) let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression"
But where is publishing caricatures or idiotic movies "fighting" or "practicing oppression"?

I'm not sure if you got it correctly, but ACMRox was actually trying to point out that how some Muslims responded to the movie was wrong. He posted the verses to show how killing is wrong unless they were attacked.
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