Welcome To Islamist World: After Tunisia and Morocco elections, Egypt follows

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Post by Grande_Milano Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:13 pm

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/02/world/africa/egypt-elections/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

40 % Brotherhood (Moderate Islamists)
20 % Salafists (Radicals, anti-Cristian party)


The whole world moves forward, Arab world keeps being backward. Then they are surprised about NATO and Islamophobia
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Post by Grande_Milano Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:32 pm

The funniest thing is that Brotherhood is parent org to Al Qaida, Hezbollah and Hamas.

People who fought for freedom are giving it today, its naive to thing of democratic elections in religious country.

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Post by TalkingReckless Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:15 pm

who told you the Brotherhood is the parent org of them????..... Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah are all different groups....


and the Brotherhood has been around the Arab world since 1930s....and has been known to be a big Charity...

and WTF Moderate Islamists??????

stop believing everything you read on CNN it's Biased American/Christian channel.....i can call them Moderate Christians too, as i always see Christian news on the front pages...there is also opinions on "how would Jesus do this" and "how would Jesus do that"....


Learn a bit about The Brotherhood before you start calling them Terrorists....and how can they be Morderates and at the same time be parent of those organizations
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:31 pm

I dont understand why social conservatives hate muslims so much
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Post by Grande_Milano Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:33 pm

imalegend wrote:who told you the Brotherhood is the parent org of them????..... Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah are all different groups....


and the Brotherhood has been around the Arab world since 1930s....and has been known to be a big Charity...

and WTF Moderate Islamists??????

stop believing everything you read on CNN it's Biased American/Christian channel.....i can call them Moderate Christians too, as i always see Christian news on the front pages...there is also opinions on "how would Jesus do this" and "how would Jesus do that"....


Learn a bit about The Brotherhood before you start calling them Terrorists....and how can they be Morderates and at the same time be parent of those organizations

Yeah, I provided a link just a news link, not any judgements.

40 per cent-BM, that has goal of making Chaliphate imbedded into their programme, and ties proven to Al Qaida,

20 per cent-Salafists, hard line guys



Offtopic: How anyone can vote for Democrats in US is beyond understanding. Sure Republicans made awful choices, esp with leaders, but still the politics in US is about agreeing/disagreeing with Republican party. Obama in power for few years=further radicalisation of the region of Middle East and more domestic problems. Lmao at "Change" and "We will do it" people. All words.
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Post by El Chelsea Fuerte Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:45 pm

What's wrong with moderate Muslims ruling their country when majority are Muslims? What were you expecting, Christians to rule from now on? Laughing

I would say Christianity rules countries like America (which is why Obama has to confirm 1233456789 times that he is a Christian) and what they have done isn't exactly saint-like either.

Islamophobia is just getting ridiculous these days.


Last edited by english_jewel on Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Yuri Yukuv Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:46 pm

I think he just wants to say that muslims dont deserve freedom because they will extinguish it with their religious beliefs.
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Post by TalkingReckless Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:53 pm

@Grande_Milano wrote:Offtopic: How anyone can vote for Democrats in US is beyond understanding. Sure Republicans made awful choices, esp with leaders, but still the politics in US is about agreeing/disagreeing with Republican party. Obama in power for few years=further radicalisation of the region of Middle East and more domestic problems. Lmao at "Change" and "We will do it" people. All words.

both parties are the problem... they can't work together.... whatever Obama puts out, the Rep shoot it down....

And i am 100% sure if a Rep President wins...the Democrats will do the same thing.....

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Post by Grande_Milano Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:09 pm

english_jewel wrote:What's wrong with moderate Muslims ruling their country when majority are Muslims? What were you expecting, Christians to rule from now on? Laughing

I would say Christianity rules countries like America (which is why Obama has to confirm 1233456789 times that he is a Christian) and what they have done isn't exactly saint-like either.

Islamophobia is just getting ridiculous these days.

We are moving towards a world separate from religion. Nobody is asking to forfeit traditions and values (like these leftist liberal nutmegs are doing in Europe), but for the sake of progress, evolution, development, religion should go sideways. Religion in my opinion should shape society, provide guidance, but not participate in politics.

Just historical perspective: Holy Roman Empire, Byzantine and Caliphate. All 3 are fundamentalists, fighting between each other, waging these beliefs war in the aim of converting others. Dark ages, no development, stagnation.

Then, religion separates from politics, its still shapes society and is influential in Europe/Russia, but doesnt interfere with the course of things going in politics/economy. Results: Progress, Education, Human Rights, standards of living, the ability for me to write this all to you and you make response for the sake of debate.

Arab world, religion predominant, was challeneged by governments but a lot of them turned into tyrannts and only entrenched belief that Fundamentalism is the way. As the result of this religion+politics, Arab world contributed zero to civilization in 19th-21st century. Exaggeration, but if you look at ratio of what was created by West/Russia/Jews/.

Japan is great example. a tyrannical country that opened up to other culture and benefited from it. The ability to share and to learn from others is what made Japan it is today. China is similar.

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Post by Grande_Milano Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:13 pm

@Yuri Yukuv wrote:I think he just wants to say that muslims dont deserve freedom because they will extinguish it with their religious beliefs.

As you said before, Middle East needs democratisation. But leftists think "we ll give em elections and they become democratical and progressive". In a blink of an eye. Doesnt happen this way.
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Post by RedOranje Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:31 pm

I don't understand your issue with a Moderate Islamist party.

Also:

The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928 and has been building a
base of support even during the Mubarak era, when it was officially
banned but tolerated.

Some observers think the Brotherhood harbors an anti-Western and
totalitarian agenda, even though it embraces moderation and democracy in
public.
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:42 pm

@Grande_Milano wrote:
@Yuri Yukuv wrote:I think he just wants to say that muslims dont deserve freedom because they will extinguish it with their religious beliefs.

As you said before, Middle East needs democratisation. But leftists think "we ll give em elections and they become democratical and progressive". In a blink of an eye. Doesnt happen this way.

No bro, its not just the left. I and most libertarians support that cause as well. The only people who dont are social conservatives and neo cons which have been blinded by their need for security and supremacy over the "heathen brown man".
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Post by Grande_Milano Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:03 pm

@RedOranje wrote:I don't understand your issue with a Moderate Islamist party.

Also:

The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928 and has been building a
base of support even during the Mubarak era, when it was officially
banned but tolerated.

Some observers think the Brotherhood harbors an anti-Western and
totalitarian agenda, even though it embraces moderation and democracy in
public.

Words. Not trying to equal BM and Hamas, Al Fath for example aka Palestinian political parties and friendly to them Hezbollah that are not recognised as radicals or terrorists in my country for example. But despite great cause-justice and freedom in Palestine, they breed and sponsor extremist wings that destabilise situation not only in Israel, but neighbouring countries too (Hezbollah and Lebannon)

BM was found having links with Al Qaida. I think most sane people recognise the latter as danger to security and liberties, etc. And these ppl are entrusted to lead the country.

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Post by TalkingReckless Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:16 pm

@Grande_Milano wrote:
@RedOranje wrote:I don't understand your issue with a Moderate Islamist party.

Also:

The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928 and has been building a
base of support even during the Mubarak era, when it was officially
banned but tolerated.

Some observers think the Brotherhood harbors an anti-Western and
totalitarian agenda, even though it embraces moderation and democracy in
public.

Words. Not trying to equal BM and Hamas, Al Fath for example aka Palestinian political parties and friendly to them Hezbollah that are not recognised as radicals or terrorists in my country for example. But despite great cause-justice and freedom in Palestine, they breed and sponsor extremist wings that destabilise situation not only in Israel, but neighbouring countries too (Hezbollah and Lebannon)

BM was found having links with Al Qaida. I think most sane people recognise the latter as danger to security and liberties, etc. And these ppl are entrusted to lead the country.


Every country has links with extremists..

US created Al-Qaeda (Mujaheddin)
Israel supported Hamas, used them as their tool against Fatah
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Post by zizzle Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:34 pm

well, i trust that the people who fought for their freedom will fight for it again if they elected the wrong people, but the thing is the egyptian people were living under a corrupted system for so long that they elected the other extreme that is conservative but "clean"

The islamist parties dont believe in the democracy western form of democracy but the moderate ones think that a islamic-democratic hybrid system can be found

As for the OP, the brotherhood might not have an official connection to Al Qaida but an an extreme interpretation of their ideology influenced the founders of Al Qaida such as Al Zawaheri, but Hezbullah has no connection to the brotherhood as their ideology is inspired from iran
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Post by WoahMancini Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:05 am

Off-topic but the United States DID create Al-Qaida. Bin Laden was also a CIA agent and has several meetings with George Bush before 9/11 occurred. The USA are the real terrorists and Obama claims he is the one who was the mastermind that killed Osama...But really, Bin Laden had many diseases and lung cancer which means there is no way he could have lived until this long. He died quite a while ago and Obama only needed something that would boost his campaign to be re-elected at the next election. He has done nothing in his history of being US president. Since the United States claim they "killed" Osama, why haven't the troops pulled out from Afghanistan yet? Wasn't their goal to kill Bin Laden and flee from Afghanistan?

I know...off-topic but all in all, the United States created modern terrorism and they are the terrorists.
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Post by MJ Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:58 am

@Grande_Milano wrote:
@RedOranje wrote:I don't understand your issue with a Moderate Islamist party.

Also:

The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928 and has been building a
base of support even during the Mubarak era, when it was officially
banned but tolerated.

Some observers think the Brotherhood harbors an anti-Western and
totalitarian agenda, even though it embraces moderation and democracy in
public.

Words. Not trying to equal BM and Hamas, Al Fath for example aka Palestinian political parties and friendly to them Hezbollah that are not recognised as radicals or terrorists in my country for example. But despite great cause-justice and freedom in Palestine, they breed and sponsor extremist wings that destabilise situation not only in Israel, but neighbouring countries too (Hezbollah and Lebannon)

BM was found having links with Al Qaida. I think most sane people recognise the latter as danger to security and liberties, etc. And these ppl are entrusted to lead the country.


1. What?

2. Lebanon will never be stable and the blame doesn't lie with Hezbollah. We have 4 main sects and each one has their own party vying for power. Many people from different sects actually support Hezbollah out of gratitude to the expulsion of Israel, admittedly there definitely are sects like the Sunni Muslims who would like to take control of Lebanon and embrace the west but they are still led by Saad al-Hariri whose father was basically an invert Robin Hood. No sect has absolute control and no one sect is destabilizing its country anymore than the other.
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Post by Senor Penguin Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:47 am

Welcome to the world of fear mongering.

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Post by The Messiah Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:19 pm

@Grande_Milano wrote:http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/02/world/africa/egypt-elections/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

40 % Brotherhood (Moderate Islamists)
20 % Salafists (Radicals, anti-Cristian party)


The whole world moves forward, Arab world keeps being backward. Then they are surprised about NATO and Islamophobia

How do you expect me as a Muslim to feel about this post, you don hear Muslims complaining about other countries laws, if the country decided to choose Islam in a democratic way how can you consider that backwardness.

Do you know how many wars have been fought without religion, I dont understand how being religious makes you backward, I am a practising Muslim who have goals of becoming a politicians, but you have some atheist who have absolutely no dream or whatsoever, all they do is hang out in football forum, no education or whatsoever.

What is the matter with you people, religious people dont treat you people this way, have a religious person ever offended you as much as some politician and bankers who steal from you everyday.?

Why do you purposely fail to understand that many have committed atrocities in the name of religion but that doesn't justify what religion stands for, be it Islam or Christianity, all religious preaches peace but they are also aware that people ought to defend themselves when there is need to, even Dogs to that
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:58 pm

Idrisozet wrote:
@Grande_Milano wrote:http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/02/world/africa/egypt-elections/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

40 % Brotherhood (Moderate Islamists)
20 % Salafists (Radicals, anti-Cristian party)


The whole world moves forward, Arab world keeps being backward. Then they are surprised about NATO and Islamophobia

How do you expect me as a Muslim to feel about this post, you don hear Muslims complaining about other countries laws, if the country decided to choose Islam in a democratic way how can you consider that backwardness.

Do you know how many wars have been fought without religion, I dont understand how being religious makes you backward, I am a practising Muslim who have goals of becoming a politicians, but you have some atheist who have absolutely no dream or whatsoever, all they do is hang out in football forum, no education or whatsoever.

What is the matter with you people, religious people dont treat you people this way, have a religious person ever offended you as much as some politician and bankers who steal from you everyday.?

Why do you purposely fail to understand that many have committed atrocities in the name of religion but that doesn't justify what religion stands for, be it Islam or Christianity, all religious preaches peace but they are also aware that people ought to defend themselves when there is need to, even Dogs to that

Lol, see what the alleviation of democracy does? Mob rule

"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There was never a democracy yet that did not commit suicide." John Adams

We are always a generation away from being enslaved again, I feel this time we are verry close.
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Post by El Chelsea Fuerte Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:03 pm

Idrisozet wrote:
@Grande_Milano wrote:http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/02/world/africa/egypt-elections/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

40 % Brotherhood (Moderate Islamists)
20 % Salafists (Radicals, anti-Cristian party)


The whole world moves forward, Arab world keeps being backward. Then they are surprised about NATO and Islamophobia

How do you expect me as a Muslim to feel about this post, you don hear Muslims complaining about other countries laws, if the country decided to choose Islam in a democratic way how can you consider that backwardness.

Do you know how many wars have been fought without religion, I dont understand how being religious makes you backward, I am a practising Muslim who have goals of becoming a politicians, but you have some atheist who have absolutely no dream or whatsoever, all they do is hang out in football forum, no education or whatsoever.

What is the matter with you people, religious people dont treat you people this way, have a religious person ever offended you as much as some politician and bankers who steal from you everyday.?

Why do you purposely fail to understand that many have committed atrocities in the name of religion but that doesn't justify what religion stands for, be it Islam or Christianity, all religious preaches peace but they are also aware that people ought to defend themselves when there is need to, even Dogs to that

:bow:

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Post by zizzle Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:40 pm

MJGunner wrote:
@Grande_Milano wrote:
@RedOranje wrote:I don't understand your issue with a Moderate Islamist party.

Also:

The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928 and has been building a
base of support even during the Mubarak era, when it was officially
banned but tolerated.

Some observers think the Brotherhood harbors an anti-Western and
totalitarian agenda, even though it embraces moderation and democracy in
public.

Words. Not trying to equal BM and Hamas, Al Fath for example aka Palestinian political parties and friendly to them Hezbollah that are not recognised as radicals or terrorists in my country for example. But despite great cause-justice and freedom in Palestine, they breed and sponsor extremist wings that destabilise situation not only in Israel, but neighbouring countries too (Hezbollah and Lebannon)

BM was found having links with Al Qaida. I think most sane people recognise the latter as danger to security and liberties, etc. And these ppl are entrusted to lead the country.


1. What?

2. Lebanon will never be stable and the blame doesn't lie with Hezbollah. We have 4 main sects and each one has their own party vying for power. Many people from different sects actually support Hezbollah out of gratitude to the expulsion of Israel, admittedly there definitely are sects like the Sunni Muslims who would like to take control of Lebanon and embrace the west but they are still led by Saad al-Hariri whose father was basically an invert Robin Hood. No sect has absolute control and no one sect is destabilizing its country anymore than the other.


well currently lebanon is under the control of Hezbullah and they are not sharing the spoils like they said they would. What have changed since they took control ? well nothing, or maybe the inflation rate.

and as for the red part, its because prejudice thoughts like these that Lebanon will always be a war zone, and it gets worse when hypocrits with these thoughts preach national unity. And im not talking about one side, both sides are lying failures but its surprising how the brainwashed masses still root for them.
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Post by MJ Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:13 pm

@zizzle wrote:
MJGunner wrote:
@Grande_Milano wrote:
@RedOranje wrote:I don't understand your issue with a Moderate Islamist party.

Also:

The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928 and has been building a
base of support even during the Mubarak era, when it was officially
banned but tolerated.

Some observers think the Brotherhood harbors an anti-Western and
totalitarian agenda, even though it embraces moderation and democracy in
public.

Words. Not trying to equal BM and Hamas, Al Fath for example aka Palestinian political parties and friendly to them Hezbollah that are not recognised as radicals or terrorists in my country for example. But despite great cause-justice and freedom in Palestine, they breed and sponsor extremist wings that destabilise situation not only in Israel, but neighbouring countries too (Hezbollah and Lebannon)

BM was found having links with Al Qaida. I think most sane people recognise the latter as danger to security and liberties, etc. And these ppl are entrusted to lead the country.


1. What?

2. Lebanon will never be stable and the blame doesn't lie with Hezbollah. We have 4 main sects and each one has their own party vying for power. Many people from different sects actually support Hezbollah out of gratitude to the expulsion of Israel, admittedly there definitely are sects like the Sunni Muslims who would like to take control of Lebanon and embrace the west but they are still led by Saad al-Hariri whose father was basically an invert Robin Hood. No sect has absolute control and no one sect is destabilizing its country anymore than the other.


well currently lebanon is under the control of Hezbullah and they are not sharing the spoils like they said they would. What have changed since they took control ? well nothing, or maybe the inflation rate.

and as for the red part, its because prejudice thoughts like these that Lebanon will always be a war zone, and it gets worse when hypocrits with these thoughts preach national unity. And im not talking about one side, both sides are lying failures but its surprising how the brainwashed masses still root for them.

It is very naiive to assume that any one group is controlling Lebanon. Hezbollah is the most militarily dominant but their influence isn't total. "Spoils"? Clarify. They didn't "take control" the government is now friendly to them, that's the difference. They're not an invisible force that is going to guide and steer our economy so don't assume that anything of that nature will be taking place.

Prejudice? Basically every sect wants Lebanon under their influence! How am I being prejudiced? I find it hard to believe that you have any idea of what you're talking about. If you're Lebanese you must be living in Tripoli or Jbeil to believe the things you're spewing because of how cut off you come off as. I really hope you weren't coining me as part of "the brainwashed masses" because your info is terribly...terrible.
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Post by zizzle Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:55 pm

MJGunner wrote:
@zizzle wrote:
MJGunner wrote:
@Grande_Milano wrote:
@RedOranje wrote:I don't understand your issue with a Moderate Islamist party.

Also:

The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928 and has been building a
base of support even during the Mubarak era, when it was officially
banned but tolerated.

Some observers think the Brotherhood harbors an anti-Western and
totalitarian agenda, even though it embraces moderation and democracy in
public.

Words. Not trying to equal BM and Hamas, Al Fath for example aka Palestinian political parties and friendly to them Hezbollah that are not recognised as radicals or terrorists in my country for example. But despite great cause-justice and freedom in Palestine, they breed and sponsor extremist wings that destabilise situation not only in Israel, but neighbouring countries too (Hezbollah and Lebannon)

BM was found having links with Al Qaida. I think most sane people recognise the latter as danger to security and liberties, etc. And these ppl are entrusted to lead the country.


1. What?

2. Lebanon will never be stable and the blame doesn't lie with Hezbollah. We have 4 main sects and each one has their own party vying for power. Many people from different sects actually support Hezbollah out of gratitude to the expulsion of Israel, admittedly there definitely are sects like the Sunni Muslims who would like to take control of Lebanon and embrace the west but they are still led by Saad al-Hariri whose father was basically an invert Robin Hood. No sect has absolute control and no one sect is destabilizing its country anymore than the other.


well currently lebanon is under the control of Hezbullah and they are not sharing the spoils like they said they would. What have changed since they took control ? well nothing, or maybe the inflation rate.

and as for the red part, its because prejudice thoughts like these that Lebanon will always be a war zone, and it gets worse when hypocrits with these thoughts preach national unity. And im not talking about one side, both sides are lying failures but its surprising how the brainwashed masses still root for them.

It is very naiive to assume that any one group is controlling Lebanon. Hezbollah is the most militarily dominant but their influence isn't total. "Spoils"? Clarify. They didn't "take control" the government is now friendly to them, that's the difference. They're not an invisible force that is going to guide and steer our economy so don't assume that anything of that nature will be taking place.

Prejudice? Basically every sect wants Lebanon under their influence! How am I being prejudiced? I find it hard to believe that you have any idea of what you're talking about. If you're Lebanese you must be living in Tripoli or Jbeil to believe the things you're spewing because of how cut off you come off as. I really hope you weren't coining me as part of "the brainwashed masses" because your info is terribly...terrible.


well, i have no interest in turning this into a discussion of the lebanese politics coz we all know where that leads, and anyway my facebook home page is sworming with this and i cant tell you how sick it makes me.

Basically my "prejuicide" comment wasnt because you acused sunnis of planning to control lebanon, eventhough your wording made it seem as if that their the only ones trying to do so, (lets be real, they all have the same goal) my comment was because of what you said about them welling to embrace the western culture and in that case you're the one who terribly misinformed. If you're making your judgement based on a casual walk in the DT or Hamra maybe you should pay a visit to places like Akaar where the majority of sunnies live and repport your findings on how much westernized these people are. Anyway, generalizing the opposition is the sign of the brainwashed so if that's not what you believe maybe you should have clarified your statement by saying "a part of sunnis" or "the ruling elite" or whatever suitable expression.

As for Hezbullah, i have always supported their fight against israel and ill continue to do so, but their dealings in the Lebanese politics are naive to say the least. They do control lebanon either through their military presence or their political influence, and may i tell you that it's them who chose a prime ministor who has no support in the street except in his hometown.

ps: stop making assumptions about me coz you missed by a mile. Assumptions are not a good thing, especially if you use them to support your conclusions
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Post by MJ Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:36 pm

I don't care who embraces western culture, obviously Lebanon is the most western Arab country, I meant basically kiss their asses. Sucking up to America and Israel and compromising. I want peace, but not at the price of Lebanese dignity if there is such a thing Razz

I apologize if I offended you, I just don't take kindly to people calling me prejudiced and brainwashed.
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