Palestinian state, are you with or against?

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Should the UN recognize a Palestinian state? (State why)

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Post by Yuri Yukuv Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:27 pm

@baresi wrote:

I dont know why this debate is still on, I mean what will you debate with someone justifing killing children, women, and eldery ppl, because Isreal was building its state on the land of those killed. Shocked

I am sure that in that war you knew that the arabs threatened the jews with mass extermination, less than 4 years the holocaust al the talk about "driving jews into the sea" and that the arabs were gonna exterminate the jewish plague.

Its not excusable but it is understandable that after all of that and arab rioters killing jews all over the country that they would safeguard the entrances to their cities. What happened happened, it was at a time of hysteria and existential fear that was fed by the arab statements.

Anyways most of the events mentioned are controversial and only appear in palestinian writing decades afterwards (Deir yassin being the exception), Wrong none the less.

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Post by zizzle Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:31 pm

@Yuri Yukuv wrote:
@baresi wrote:

I dont know why this debate is still on, I mean what will you debate with someone justifing killing children, women, and eldery ppl, because Isreal was building its state on the land of those killed. Shocked

I am sure that in that war you knew that the arabs threatened the jews with mass extermination, less than 4 years the holocaust al the talk about "driving jews into the sea" and that the arabs were gonna exterminate the jewish plague.

but, but, the jews occupied palestine and displaced a million palestinians and killed thousands of them before the arabs even decleared war on israel ! what do u want the arabs to throw roses at those who are killing them ? they *bleep* took the land and established a state on it just becasue they can ! you are completely irrational bro ! you know you have no case so stop making a fool out of yourself

@Yuri Yukuv wrote:
Its not excusable but it is understandable that after all of that and arab rioters killing jews all over the country that they would safeguard the entrances to their cities. What happened happened, it was at a time of hysteria and existential fear that was fed by the arab statements.

but, but those jews who are white europeans converts, who share no ancestory with the original jewish tribes, who's only proof of ownership is an ancient book of fables...these jews were *bleep* invadors, you get it ?


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Post by Artemis Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:28 am

All this debate has done is clearly display the demographic of this forum, lmao

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Post by Ali Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:40 am

Oh and long live lebanon, the most tolerant place on earth where there is no abuse of power, no civil wars, no political parties based on religion, no allotment of office based on religion and a country that is champion of human rights and democracy everywhere in the world (including syria)



lol nice going insulting Lebanon , it's ok Yuri, you can defend a country widely accepted around the world as being murderers, I'm sure you have very high morale standards. Everywhere in the world there is abuse of power, if you don't think so then your blind. Civil wars again happen everywhere..

I really just can't answer you anymore, it's not that I can't, it's just - I can't find the insult to use at the moment because none will suffice.
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Post by baresi Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:36 pm

@Yuri Yukuv wrote:
@baresi wrote:

I dont know why this debate is still on, I mean what will you debate with someone justifing killing children, women, and eldery ppl, because Isreal was building its state on the land of those killed. Shocked

I am sure that in that war you knew that the arabs threatened the jews with mass extermination, less than 4 years the holocaust al the talk about "driving jews into the sea" and that the arabs were gonna exterminate the jewish plague.

Its not excusable but it is understandable that after all of that and arab rioters killing jews all over the country that they would safeguard the entrances to their cities. What happened happened, it was at a time of hysteria and existential fear that was fed by the arab statements.

Anyways most of the events mentioned are controversial and only appear in palestinian writing decades afterwards (Deir yassin being the exception), Wrong none the less.
Am I the only one noticing double standards here, so it is "understandable" why Israel killed kids, women, and eldery ppl, since they had bad memories from others, and wanted to build their stated on a land they dont own, on the other hand it is not the right of those who have been killed, and still being killed for 60+ years, to ask for their own state, on a very small part of their OWN land, or as you see it, it is not even their right to fight back with the very little they have a "STONE". LOL

Man you can only blame Israel for the mentality of the kids in Palestine, they have killed any inocent look or feeling in those kids, those kids have been sleeping and waking on bomb noices, I can assure you that there is no kid in Palestine that did'nt lose a family member, a brother, his father, mother, sister. So what exactly would you expect, just the same feeling of Jews towards the holocaust, Will they ever forget it?

Mind you the holocaust was a one regime action, unlike the killings of Palestinians its every Israeli regime action.


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Yuri just answer this:

Will the Jews ever forget the holocaust? If not how do you expect the Palestinians to forget 60+ years of killing?
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Post by MJ Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:50 pm

Ali's right. It's literally like trying to convince a rock that the sky is blue. Of course the rock can't see so that's impossible. You're offensive, illogical and irrational.
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Post by TalkingReckless Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:58 pm

Yuri you do know that Jews can be Arabs too.

but there is a difference between Arab Jews and European Jews..

Majority of Arabs hate European Jews....who have no history other then their religion of that area....and they use that to claim Palestine as their land....and majority of European Jews are the ones in Power in Israel not the Arab Jews who have lived in that area for centuries...

Ashkenazi Jews (those from Europe) are the largest group of Jews in Israel... not the Arabs Jews

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/4838496/Israels-humiliating-discrimination-against-Arab-Jews.html


and it's a known Facts Mizrahi Jews and Sephardi Jews.... both from the surrounding areas of the Arabs Worlds...have been discriminated against by the Ashkenazi for years, and according to surveys Ashkenazi have a higher income then Arabs Jews...
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Post by zizzle Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:59 pm

"She describes many instances of humiliating and sometimes horrifying discrimination against Moroccan, Yemeni, Tunisian and other Jews as they found their lives subsumed beneath the prevailing Ashkenazi culture. Some North African Jews were allowed in only after being sprayed with disinfectant. The picture is one of exploitation and mistrust, based largely on the Arab Jews’ resemblance – even linguistically – to “the enemy” and leaving them still at the bottom of the heap today. "


yes Yuri, a state that advocates human rights.



thanks for the link imalegend
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Post by Guest Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:33 pm

Both parties are as guilty as each other....Both have made stupid mistakes, but aren't man enough to admit it and step on their ego and are just acting to their 100% interest of themselves alone.

In other words, they are following Egoism theory of ethics, as opposed to Utilitarianism theory.

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Post by MJ Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:01 pm

I agree except- and feel free to call me biased -the Israelis are infinitely more guilty to me. Being the better privileged side, they are absolutely abusing their leaps ahead in technology and should most certainly compromise with Palestine to create defined borders. Neither side wants a compromise but I think that it's the only way to fix this, if both parties agree instead of the UN granting Palestine statehood immediately.

Perhaps they could go back to at least the 67 borders and have Jerusalem be a UN controlled shared city. This is all fantasy as the zionists continue to settle within the Palestinian territory and nothing but a definitive blow to Israel will satisfy the Palestinians.
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Post by zizzle Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:11 pm

israel exists over the ruins of palestine, that alone is illegal and unethical. whatever mistakes the palestinians did they're still not guilty of mass displacement and mass extermination so dont give me that crap about equal guilt and responsibility.
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Post by Artemis Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:13 pm

"Both parties are as guilty as each other....Both have made stupid mistakes, but aren't man enough to admit it and step on their ego and are just acting to their 100% interest of themselves alone.

In other words, they are following Egoism theory of ethics, as opposed to Utilitarianism theory."

Well said Sepi, well said



I can not believe how one sided a lot of you are

Take a second to look at facts from both sides, instead of simply that link your big brother pointed out
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Post by zizzle Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:57 pm

so what is the story from the other side Artemis ? care to explain how displacing over a million palestinians is explained over there ?
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Post by Artemis Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:18 am

"so what is the story from the other side Artemis ? care to explain how displacing over a million palestinians is explained over there ?"

Arguing with you would be unnecessary, and inefficient. The information is very accessible.

I only ask that you approach the issue with an open mind.

Both sides are in the wrong here.

Here is a little project. Why don't you take 5 minutes and try and give me and argument IN FAVOR of Israel. It might be tough, but I bet you learn a lot man.
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Post by zizzle Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:30 am

well sure, here we go

like every religious group out there, jews should be have complete access to their holly sites, and that means being able to live there and buy property in that area. that of course should be done without causing any friction between them and the locals or the other religious groups who also have holy sites there. Any attempt to stop the jews

sounds good so far ?

here's a little practice for you, why dont you take 1 minute and try to tell how israel's policies contrast with the argument above. Im sure you can learn alot man
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Post by MJ Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:05 am

Why don't you research "Israeli violations of Lebanese sovereignty"? There are over 10,000 accounts, but sift through the major ones
or "Israeli defiance of UN resolutions"? Ahh, see THEY don't comply with what the UN asks them to do either!
or how about the story of a Palestinian/Israeli settled town in the West Bank where there is running water, electricity for the illegal Israelis and a Police station that says "Police" in Hebrew and English but not in Arabic, as if police help was something not meant for them.

Sickening.
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Post by Senor Penguin Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:47 pm

@Artemis wrote:"Both parties are as guilty as each other....Both have made stupid mistakes, but aren't man enough to admit it and step on their ego and are just acting to their 100% interest of themselves alone.

In other words, they are following Egoism theory of ethics, as opposed to Utilitarianism theory."

Well said Sepi, well said



I can not believe how one sided a lot of you are

Take a second to look at facts from both sides, instead of simply that link your big brother pointed out
Israel -> Illegal occupation -> Major sh*thole since then.

All the facts that are needed. Cool

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Post by milanfan7 Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:36 pm

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/31/world/meast/unesco-palestinian-membership/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Btw the ignorance in the CNN comments section is overwhelming.
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Post by 7amood11 Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:49 pm

@Milanfan7 wrote:http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/31/world/meast/unesco-palestinian-membership/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Btw the ignorance in the CNN comments section is overwhelming.

Just :facepalm: at some of those comments. How some people are so ignorant is beyond me.
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Post by TalkingReckless Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:19 pm

It always funny to read comments on CNN...


Why does US call itself a democracy when it doesn't accept democratic decisions made by the rest of the world? They just told UNESCO "Any recognition of Palestine as a Member State would not only jeopardize the hope for a resumption of direct Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, but (it) would endanger the United States' contribution to UNESCO," which accounts for more than a fifth of their budget.

its not a democracy, its a hypocrisy.
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Post by MJ Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:04 pm

imalegend wrote:It always funny to read comments on CNN...


Why does US call itself a democracy when it doesn't accept democratic decisions made by the rest of the world? They just told UNESCO "Any recognition of Palestine as a Member State would not only jeopardize the hope for a resumption of direct Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, but (it) would endanger the United States' contribution to UNESCO," which accounts for more than a fifth of their budget.

its not a democracy, its a hypocrisy.

Too true, the U.S. seeks global stability on it's own terms which is really counter-productive to it's image and plan. The Divided states of hypocrisy.
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Post by TalkingReckless Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:40 pm

US is basically blackmailing the UN...
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Post by zizzle Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:46 pm

unless the Americans want to see the UN headquarters move to Beijen they wont stop funding the UN, its just a bluffing attempt that isnt fooling anyone


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Post by Yuri Yukuv Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:44 pm

its actually an old law from congress (2o yrs old), the US cant fund any organization that the PLO is part of
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Post by TalkingReckless Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:25 pm

US had officially cut UNESCO's funding....

The United States is cutting funding to the U.N. education and science agency UNESCO after the agency voted to accept a Palestinian bid for full membership, the U.S. State Department said Monday.
"Today's vote by the member states of UNESCO to admit Palestine as member is regrettable, premature and undermines our shared goal of a comprehensive just and lasing peace in the Middle East.," said State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland.
"The United States will refrain from making contributions to UNESCO," she said.
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Post by The Messiah Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:54 am

@Yuri Yukuv wrote:So you are seriously telling me you can go to downtown beirut and tell people there is no god?

Can you go to center of beirut and openly preach that jaja and nasrallah shud be brought to trial and executed?

If you become an atheist or a buddhist can you run for office? Im pretty sure you cant as the positions are allotted according to religion.


Schindler's list is banned in lebanon for gods sake for cultivating sympathy to jews.

Your pm was murdered because he talked too much, many more followed from the parliment I think it was 14 over two months. The assailants are now in power.

The palestinians live in apartheid where they cant own land, cant leave their camps without much trouble and live in much worse conditions than the rest of the country.

Women cannot give lebanese nationality to her offspring.

The point is Israel is illegally occupying Palestine land, we are not here to talk about freedom of speech if Palestine chooses not to be democratic, then that's the system they want, which in other words means democracy, government of the people, by the people and for the people.

Selfishness is not wanting to live the way you want to live, but wanting others to live how you want to live.

However you most understand that the most important thing here is fixing the ongoing injustice instead of trying to find faults in other Arab states and trying to ignore the vital point, which in turns distracts people from the truth.

Even if Palestine were cannibals, barbaric, monsters, Zombies or whatsoever the case maybe it still not sufficient to justify the fact that Israel is occupying their land forcefully.
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