Palestinian state, are you with or against?

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Should the UN recognize a Palestinian state? (State why)

Palestinian state, are you with or against? Vote_lcap91%Palestinian state, are you with or against? Vote_rcap 91% 
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Total Votes : 45
 

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Post by Yuri Yukuv Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:12 pm

Right now in the UN they are discussing wether to recognize palestine as a state or not

Bibi's speech



Abbas speech



What do you think?

Here is a little inforgraphic of who supports and who opposes by the guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2011/sep/20/palestinain-state-israel-un-interactive
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Post by RealGunner Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:20 pm

So they are asking the UN to recognise what is already theirs ?
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:21 pm

I wouldnt call it really theirs, the palestinian live on what most resembles the natives reserves in the US. Israel still deals with all the borders and so on.
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Post by Sushi Master Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:53 pm

With, totally. Israel have been total assholes and even some Americans are doubting their supposed support. Seem more like a problem than an ally.
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Post by pUsHa Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:12 pm

I'm with them ....
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Post by Grande_Milano Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:28 pm

Should be a two-nation state, was close too, but illuminati or whoever not gonna allow
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Post by EarlyPrototype Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:36 pm

Strongly with. Israel is a terrorist state.
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Post by Lord Spencer Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:59 pm

@Yuri Yukuv wrote:I wouldnt call it really theirs, the palestinian live on what most resembles the natives reserves in the US. Israel still deals with all the borders and so on.

So them living there and owning 90% of the land before the U.N. decided to create Israel suddenly makes it ok for them to be in reserves. So owning a house does not make it yours if you were kicked out of it by random invaders, need to make note of that somewhere. Sure, invaders kicked people around all the time in History, but we are in the modern world now, and I would like to think we came a long way towards a collective human cause.

Having said that, Palestine needs to become a country based on U.N. funding since the U.N were responsible for their collective frak up. Palestine, or what land is given to Palestine are in really useless territory. And with technology being so backward because of the war, they would become dependent on aid for a long time.

Or the U.S. can give them some aid the same amount they are giving to Israel. The taxes they are paying towards the ME is ridicilous.

The money given to Israel, Egypt, Jordan, and other states in the ME is of no benefit to the people of united states.
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Post by Sushi Master Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:01 am

@Lord Spencer wrote:
@Yuri Yukuv wrote:I wouldnt call it really theirs, the palestinian live on what most resembles the natives reserves in the US. Israel still deals with all the borders and so on.

So them living there and owning 90% of the land before the U.N. decided to create Israel suddenly makes it ok for them to be in reserves. So owning a house does not make it yours if you were kicked out of it by random invaders, need to make note of that somewhere. Sure, invaders kicked people around all the time in History, but we are in the modern world now, and I would like to think we came a long way towards a collective human cause.

Having said that, Palestine needs to become a country based on U.N. funding since the U.N were responsible for their collective frak up. Palestine, or what land is given to Palestine are in really useless territory. And with technology being so backward because of the war, they would become dependent on aid for a long time.

Or the U.S. can give them some aid the same amount they are giving to Israel. The taxes they are paying towards the ME is ridicilous.

The money given to Israel, Egypt, Jordan, and other states in the ME is of no benefit to the people of united states.
Isn't Israel the only supposed true American "ally" in the ME region with a nuclear deterrent available?
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Post by JAY-Z Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:20 am

I fully support the Palestinian state.
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Post by Lord Spencer Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:24 am

@Sushi Master wrote:
@Lord Spencer wrote:
@Yuri Yukuv wrote:I wouldnt call it really theirs, the palestinian live on what most resembles the natives reserves in the US. Israel still deals with all the borders and so on.

So them living there and owning 90% of the land before the U.N. decided to create Israel suddenly makes it ok for them to be in reserves. So owning a house does not make it yours if you were kicked out of it by random invaders, need to make note of that somewhere. Sure, invaders kicked people around all the time in History, but we are in the modern world now, and I would like to think we came a long way towards a collective human cause.

Having said that, Palestine needs to become a country based on U.N. funding since the U.N were responsible for their collective frak up. Palestine, or what land is given to Palestine are in really useless territory. And with technology being so backward because of the war, they would become dependent on aid for a long time.

Or the U.S. can give them some aid the same amount they are giving to Israel. The taxes they are paying towards the ME is ridicilous.

The money given to Israel, Egypt, Jordan, and other states in the ME is of no benefit to the people of united states.
Isn't Israel the only supposed true American "ally" in the ME region with a nuclear deterrent available?

Yes, but the U.S. have been paying other countries to lay off Israel as well. As for Israel being an ally, what a joke that is. An "ally" is someone that can help you, Israel helps the U.S in no way. They have no resources, they have no technological advancement they can share.

The U.S. likes to think that they need an ally "like them" in the ME, but the GCC countries are much more useful and cost effective than Israel. Qatar has the biggest U.S. base in the world (outside the U.S.). All in all, Israel is a pretty useless friend to have.

Its like that friend who always borrows money, embarrasses you in front of other people, cause trouble and asks you to bail him out. And then when you tell him to cool it down with his antics, he only increases them.
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Post by TalkingReckless Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:31 am

@Sushi Master wrote:
Isn't Israel the only supposed true American "ally" in the ME region with a nuclear deterrent available?

One of the Reason America defends Israel so much is the American Jews, which own and run a major part of the US economy and have a lot of power in their Politics..

Btw it wasn't too long ago Obama was with the Palestine people, now he has had to back off, probably being pressured.

and lets not forget the Christian Zionists

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Post by Yuri Yukuv Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:43 am

Guys lets not forget that israel is the only democracy in the ME and that the arabs living in israel are the only arabs in the whole ME which have the right to free speech and election. Shud we really appease palestinians when they have been launching rockets into israel and bombing themselves in bus stations?

Just some food for thought.
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Post by Lord Spencer Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:51 am

@Yuri Yukuv wrote:Guys lets not forget that israel is the only democracy in the ME and that the arabs living in israel are the only arabs in the whole ME which have the right to free speech and election. Shud we really appease palestinians when they have been launching rockets into israel and bombing themselves in bus stations?

Just some food for thought.

Democracy built on the blood of the innocent. I have been to Israel, and the divide that exist there between Western Jews and Eastern Jews is border line racist. You speak of democracy as if it easily attainable. Democracy developed over a period of 400 years. To expect that countries just 80 years out of colonial hands and from that into dictators should become democratic countries is unreasonable. Also, it is difficult to become a democratic country when you don't have enough resources.

Another point, the Arab world is steadily improving. Out of this cesspool of revolutions and economic downturns, something good will happen.

And yet you argued with me before that the GCC countries are of a different situation and don't need that luxury.
And you are providing false facts. Both in Lebanon and Iraq is freedom of speech maintained and elections are held.
The situation is improving in Egypt.


Why should we then support Israel who have been shooting white phosphorus missiles (an illegal weapon) into civilian areas, and have been condemned by 20 UN resolutions of human rights infringement. The death toll speaks of everything really, it is not even comparable.

I really love how you conveniently ignore the war crimes Israel committed and continues to commit. I am not supporting terrorism here, and I Hamas is doing it wrong. However, there is a fine line between terrorism and patriotism.Or is it perfectly acceptable for Israel to break weapon rules and staunchly kill civilians while it is not acceptable in the other end. You are showing double standards that are laughable.
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Post by zizzle Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:00 am

Lord spencer, having you in the off section has saved me alot of typing recently
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Post by zizzle Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:01 am

Palestinian state, are you with or against? 205123_10150527696710389_888790388_17967291_2711924_n
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Post by TalkingReckless Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:16 am

btw most of you guys won't know this but 20 years ago during this month on Sept 16 300-3000 Palestinians were killed in Sabra and Shatila, a refugee camp

The defense minister for Israel at that time was Ariel Sharon, who knew the Genocide was happening, as the Israeli army surrounded that area....Sharon later became the PM of Israel...

There are countless reports from Foreign journalists who were there atm who show the killings and they said that Israeli forces were quietly watching from building outside the camp

This event was declared a genocide by UN? but guess what nothing happened, the guy who knew this was happening and was in charge become the PM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

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Post by zizzle Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:26 am

the history of israel is full of such massacres against innocent civilians and i witnessed it first hand since i lived in lebanon almost all my life

the first simillar event that comes to mind is the Qana massacres in 1996 where israel bombed a UN based (wtf!) that many civilians were hiding at killing more than a 100 people, most of them women and children
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Post by TalkingReckless Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:34 am

btw i find it funny that there are countless cases where in the UN have found Israel guilty of doing something wrong, and there are always two votes against it, Israel and US.....
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Post by DeviAngel Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:53 am

They have their right because their state was there and now it ain't thiers ppl need to live in peace and unity no matter what nationality that's what is missing and killing this world :facepalm: and it ain't so hard Sad
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Post by Ali Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:57 am

@Yuri Yukuv wrote:Guys lets not forget that israel is the only democracy in the ME and that the arabs living in israel are the only arabs in the whole ME which have the right to free speech and election. Shud we really appease palestinians when they have been launching rockets into israel and bombing themselves in bus stations?

Just some food for thought.

1. Wrong.
2. GOD FORBID that the Palestinians who have had their land INVADED and their brothers SLAUGHTERED should retaliate.
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Post by Grande_Milano Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:21 am

The only thing Israel is right, is that promised land is theirs. If you make a research, you will then find that it was inhabited by tribes that were then succeeded by Jews. These tribes dont exist anymore, and Arabs have nothing to do with this land, they were third there.

2 State System is the only solution, at least more autonomy to Palestine. The other problem is Israel gets all these jerks at leading positions that ppl vote for, because of the pressure from countries that have absolutely nothing to do with Israel-Palestine conflict (Egypt, Iran, Syria, etc)
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Post by Lord Spencer Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:34 am

@Grande_Milano wrote:The only thing Israel is right, is that promised land is theirs. If you make a research, you will then find that it was inhabited by tribes that were then succeeded by Jews. These tribes dont exist anymore, and Arabs have nothing to do with this land, they were third there.

2 State System is the only solution, at least more autonomy to Palestine. The other problem is Israel gets all these jerks at leading positions that ppl vote for, because of the pressure from countries that have absolutely nothing to do with Israel-Palestine conflict (Egypt, Iran, Syria, etc)

The Canaanites who originally inhabited Palestine are the Ancestors of the Syrites, who are one of the branches Palestinian Arabs come from.

You also don't have the right to get a land from its owners because your ancestors 3000 years ago used to live there. Land is for everybody, it is taking it forcefully from somebody else that makes it wrong.
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:19 am

@Lord Spencer wrote:
@Yuri Yukuv wrote:Guys lets not forget that israel is the only democracy in the ME and that the arabs living in israel are the only arabs in the whole ME which have the right to free speech and election. Shud we really appease palestinians when they have been launching rockets into israel and bombing themselves in bus stations?

Just some food for thought.

Democracy built on the blood of the innocent. I have been to Israel, and the divide that exist there between Western Jews and Eastern Jews is border line racist. You speak of democracy as if it easily attainable. Democracy developed over a period of 400 years. To expect that countries just 80 years out of colonial hands and from that into dictators should become democratic countries is unreasonable. Also, it is difficult to become a democratic country when you don't have enough resources.

Another point, the Arab world is steadily improving. Out of this cesspool of revolutions and economic downturns, something good will happen.

And yet you argued with me before that the GCC countries are of a different situation and don't need that luxury.
And you are providing false facts. Both in Lebanon and Iraq is freedom of speech maintained and elections are held.
The situation is improving in Egypt.


Why should we then support Israel who have been shooting white phosphorus missiles (an illegal weapon) into civilian areas, and have been condemned by 20 UN resolutions of human rights infringement. The death toll speaks of everything really, it is not even comparable.

I really love how you conveniently ignore the war crimes Israel committed and continues to commit. I am not supporting terrorism here, and I Hamas is doing it wrong. However, there is a fine line between terrorism and patriotism.Or is it perfectly acceptable for Israel to break weapon rules and staunchly kill civilians while it is not acceptable in the other end. You are showing double standards that are laughable.

Personally I dont care at all about palestinians or israelis, they make political noise but them and all the countries directly around them are economically insignificant.

There is no freedom of speech in either lebanon or iraq, lets be serious here. Can you go out to the main square in either towns and tell people that there is no god? can you go on tv and declare that you are gay? can you even go out to the middle of the street and say that you want to have peaceful relationships with israel? Lets all be serious here there is nothing remotely close to democracy or free speech in arab countries. Whereas this could all be easily done in tel aviv or on israeli tv.

I am not saying that appeasement would be done by israelis towards palestinians but from americans towards palestinians, we would essentially be rewarding them for their violence. They should be on the negotiation tables like they promised us back in camp david. There would never be peace.

Personally I couldnt care less about both sides but I would miss the cute IDF girls we got pics of every couple of years on GQ or sportsillustrated



Palestinian state, are you with or against? Bar-refaeli-45a
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Post by Lord Spencer Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:27 am

@Yuri Yukuv wrote:
@Lord Spencer wrote:
@Yuri Yukuv wrote:Guys lets not forget that israel is the only democracy in the ME and that the arabs living in israel are the only arabs in the whole ME which have the right to free speech and election. Shud we really appease palestinians when they have been launching rockets into israel and bombing themselves in bus stations?

Just some food for thought.

Democracy built on the blood of the innocent. I have been to Israel, and the divide that exist there between Western Jews and Eastern Jews is border line racist. You speak of democracy as if it easily attainable. Democracy developed over a period of 400 years. To expect that countries just 80 years out of colonial hands and from that into dictators should become democratic countries is unreasonable. Also, it is difficult to become a democratic country when you don't have enough resources.

Another point, the Arab world is steadily improving. Out of this cesspool of revolutions and economic downturns, something good will happen.

And yet you argued with me before that the GCC countries are of a different situation and don't need that luxury.
And you are providing false facts. Both in Lebanon and Iraq is freedom of speech maintained and elections are held.
The situation is improving in Egypt.


Why should we then support Israel who have been shooting white phosphorus missiles (an illegal weapon) into civilian areas, and have been condemned by 20 UN resolutions of human rights infringement. The death toll speaks of everything really, it is not even comparable.

I really love how you conveniently ignore the war crimes Israel committed and continues to commit. I am not supporting terrorism here, and I Hamas is doing it wrong. However, there is a fine line between terrorism and patriotism.Or is it perfectly acceptable for Israel to break weapon rules and staunchly kill civilians while it is not acceptable in the other end. You are showing double standards that are laughable.

Personally I dont care at all about palestinians or israelis, they make political noise but them and all the countries directly around them are economically insignificant.

There is no freedom of speech in either lebanon or iraq, lets be serious here. Can you go out to the main square in either towns and tell people that there is no god? can you go on tv and declare that you are gay? can you even go out to the middle of the street and say that you want to have peaceful relationships with israel? Lets all be serious here there is nothing remotely close to democracy or free speech in arab countries. Whereas this could all be easily done in tel aviv or on israeli tv.

I am not saying that appeasement would be done by israelis towards palestinians but from americans towards palestinians, we would essentially be rewarding them for their violence. They should be on the negotiation tables like they promised us back in camp david. There would never be peace.

Personally I couldnt care less about both sides but I would miss the cute IDF girls we got pics of every couple of years on GQ or sportsillustrated



Palestinian state, are you with or against? Bar-refaeli-45a

Gay rights have only been recognized properly in the U.S. a few days ago. Till then, gays could not serve in the military. And all these right movements happened while the Arab world was under severe problems. The first corner for freedom of speech is political freedom and that does exist in the countries mentioned.If you go and preach at any backwater town in America about the non-existance of God, you will be most probably beaten too.


Also, Israel is a very traditional community and any person that goes from Israel and goes against the norm would be attacked, and such is the case in any country.



And Israel should respect their
territorial boundaries and stop expanding their settlements. Violence have been done by both parties and more so by Israel, the Americans should not appease them for their violence as well.

Also, I disagree on the economic significance of the countries around Israel. Egypt has much potential, and Iraq as well.
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