Palestinian state, are you with or against?

MJGunner wrote:That was beautiful Ali.

MJGunner wrote:That was beautiful Ali.

jenno wrote:

MJGunner wrote:That was beautiful Ali.

I second that.
I live in the north of Beirut, and I'm christian, I have never thought about it like this.
I respect all the guerillas and of course I support everything that is lebanese.. but it's the 1st time I see it like this!
Thanks man..

Senor Penguin wrote:

zizzle wrote:seems like this forum has alot of lebanese posters

Milanfan7 wrote: Since all the Lebanese posters are checking this thread:
Is anyone here going to the Lebanon-Kuwait game on Tuesday? I'm going but I'm leabing as soon as we concede a goal to avoid getting beaten up:p.

MJGunner wrote:

Milanfan7 wrote: Since all the Lebanese posters are checking this thread:
Is anyone here going to the Lebanon-Kuwait game on Tuesday? I'm going but I'm leabing as soon as we concede a goal to avoid getting beaten up:p.

Where do you get tickets, price, is it at sportiv? if so yeah Imma go

ali8775 wrote:
its free bro, btw this is marwan shehaitly...

MJGunner wrote:

ali8775 wrote:
its free bro, btw this is marwan shehaitly...

huh, no wonder he has a 50% warning level :lol!:
So you just show up and watch? Why wouldn't everyone do that?!

BTW we're still not done with this discussion if Yuri ever plans on replying in a respectful and challenging way.

Milanfan7 wrote: Who's mj?

Yuri Yukuv wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:

Yuri Yukuv wrote:Guys lets not forget that israel is the only democracy in the ME and that the arabs living in israel are the only arabs in the whole ME which have the right to free speech and election. Shud we really appease palestinians when they have been launching rockets into israel and bombing themselves in bus stations?

Just some food for thought.

Democracy built on the blood of the innocent. I have been to Israel, and the divide that exist there between Western Jews and Eastern Jews is border line racist. You speak of democracy as if it easily attainable. Democracy developed over a period of 400 years. To expect that countries just 80 years out of colonial hands and from that into dictators should become democratic countries is unreasonable. Also, it is difficult to become a democratic country when you don't have enough resources.

Another point, the Arab world is steadily improving. Out of this cesspool of revolutions and economic downturns, something good will happen.

And yet you argued with me before that the GCC countries are of a different situation and don't need that luxury.
And you are providing false facts. Both in Lebanon and Iraq is freedom of speech maintained and elections are held.
The situation is improving in Egypt.

Why should we then support Israel who have been shooting white phosphorus missiles (an illegal weapon) into civilian areas, and have been condemned by 20 UN resolutions of human rights infringement. The death toll speaks of everything really, it is not even comparable.

I really love how you conveniently ignore the war crimes Israel committed and continues to commit. I am not supporting terrorism here, and I Hamas is doing it wrong. However, there is a fine line between terrorism and patriotism.Or is it perfectly acceptable for Israel to break weapon rules and staunchly kill civilians while it is not acceptable in the other end. You are showing double standards that are laughable.

Personally I dont care at all about palestinians or israelis, they make political noise but them and all the countries directly around them are economically insignificant.

There is no freedom of speech in either lebanon or iraq, lets be serious here. Can you go out to the main square in either towns and tell people that there is no god? can you go on tv and declare that you are gay? can you even go out to the middle of the street and say that you want to have peaceful relationships with israel? Lets all be serious here there is nothing remotely close to democracy or free speech in arab countries. Whereas this could all be easily done in tel aviv or on israeli tv.

I am not saying that appeasement would be done by israelis towards palestinians but from americans towards palestinians, we would essentially be rewarding them for their violence. They should be on the negotiation tables like they promised us back in camp david. There would never be peace.

Personally I couldnt care less about both sides but I would miss the cute IDF girls we got pics of every couple of years on GQ or sportsillustrated

Yuri Yukuv wrote:If you go to texas and feel your safety is under threat because of freedom of speech in public you will be escorted by the police while you preach your words.

Here is police protecting neo-nazi



There is no political freedom either, the goverment wont let you have a pro-israel rally in iraq, egypt or lebanon. These governments wont let you change religion. In two of those countries there was a recent civil war or at least sizable friction between ethnicities. While the third is ruled by a military council.

And no matter what you want to believe all countries surrounding israel directly as well as israel itself are worthless economically.

Yuri Yukuv wrote:So you are seriously telling me you can go to downtown beirut and tell people there is no god?

Can you go to center of beirut and openly preach that jaja and nasrallah shud be brought to trial and executed?

If you become an atheist or a buddhist can you run for office? Im pretty sure you cant as the positions are allotted according to religion.


Schindler's list is banned in lebanon for gods sake for cultivating sympathy to jews.

Your pm was murdered because he talked too much, many more followed from the parliment I think it was 14 over two months. The assailants are now in power.

The palestinians live in apartheid where they cant own land, cant leave their camps without much trouble and live in much worse conditions than the rest of the country.

Women cannot give lebanese nationality to her offspring.

Yuri Yukuv wrote:Ive already said this, I dont really for the israeli palestinian conflict but you guys shudnt live in a bubble where everyone agrees with you. You have hizbullah, syria and iran as the major influences in "super democratic" lebanon while you have the muslim brotherhood as the main political party in egypt and leaders of genocide death squads at the helm of power in iraq. You simply cannot pass them off as being equal in rights and democracy as israel.

For all I care that area of the world is just some unstable backwater that lives off aid and worker remittances (including israel).What happens there matters 0% economically thats why the news there is never covered by cnb or bloomberg.

Yuri Yukuv wrote:

zizzle wrote:

Yuri Yukuv wrote:

Ill say this again I am not with israel or palestine, but arabs have to get a grip they will never get support of the united states as long as israel stands for occidental values in the midst of anti-western countries. Forget about it, it will never happen. Most people in the states would support israel state against arabs because they would see it as a cutting off a threat to their individual rights in general and their personal rights in extension. Personally I dont agree, not because I think most arab countries are against individual capitalistic rights but because I dont see them as a threat.

if you think the states support israel becasue of its values then you're deluded. Israel has no values and they have no respect for human rights what so ever, i already posted a link about discrimiation against minorities in israel and how the israeli goverment never took any serious steps to insure equality so i suggest you give a look

Plus the united states is one of the contributing factors why arab countires are so behind regarding civil and human rights, how ? The united states has forever supported totalitarian regiems in the middle east and they always used their influence to insure that they remain as rules of these countries ! I dont need to tell you about how deep the relationships are between the US and Saudi Arabia, and yet the Saudis are the worst regarding human rights ! the US supported Mubarak for more than 20 years, and if they really care about civil rights then they would have supported the revolution in egypt since day one, but instead they hesitated and never called him to step down untill he was practically out. The US supports the Qatari ruling family who host America's biggest military base in the middle east, and the same thing goes for all the gulf countries.

If they United States really supports human rights then why do they Veto any security council resolution that condemns israel's massacrs in gaza and Lebanon ? the examples are countless and if you're not aware of them then ill gladly provide a source

im expecting you to reply to this post and not ignore it like the 2 previous ones. Homosexuality is not the main discussion you know

Wait what?

The palestinians have elected mps into the parliament, who have full voting rights. The palestinians have freedom of speech in israel, freedom of movement and freedom to work wherever they want. They are able to conduct everything about their private lives away from the government.

Listen buddy, the goals of the united states are first to safeguard and strengthen the rights of people who already have them and then to extend it to people who dont have any and way way later it is to enable nations to collectively vote and decide their destiny. If you think any american would support a democratically elected government islamic or socialist that would surpress the rights of an individual you are deluded.

Yes we are allied to saudi arabia, egypt and qatar. You know why? they are the best of the worst in a backwater. Compare how egypt treated their protesters to how libya or syria did, guess what the last two were unbelievably abusive killing machines who were not allied to the US. Just compare the numbers of deaths in libya, syria and iran when they had their revolutions to the ones in tunisia and egypt (our allies). You know why there wasn't so much deaths and the presidents eventually left? because we have some leverage and will hold them accountable.

Wait so supporting a populist movement in which 1 or 2 out of 80 million would be the right thing for civil rights? The people revolting were not organized, we did not know who they were. What if they were part of a totalarian take over that would further hurt human rights?

In the US we live in a republic not a democracy, my rights are a 100x more important than the democracy. If I had to choose I know which one I would pick, the US should always support individual rights over democracy no matter what.

Again I dont see your point with us vetoing decisions, UN democracy doesnt mean it is right. And yeah btw last time I checked the massacre of sabra was commited by LEBANESE! Many who are still in politics today. How about you campaign for justice in your country before you blame it on the jews and america.