How good is Messi's passing and vision?

Jack Daniels wrote:Well he does dribbles forward in full speed while being chased by 2-3 defenders then executes the final ball with relatively ease.

That is very hard to do lmao.

While being chased by defenders, Messi gives more space for his teammate to recieve the final ball compared to Xavi who needs to find gaps more often to execute his final pass w/c i think is more difficult to perform.

Well let's just say that i'm now lost for words about this dude.

I've highlighted the part that I think is really important. For this reason I voted Messi as GOD mode.

Messi plays a more advanced role than Xavi on the pitch, so naturally he will be going up against CB's and DM's as opposed to Xavi. Messi has it harder in that sense.
Also, he's very closely watched by 3-4 defenders in every match. Xavi sits deeper, and has way more time on the ball than Messi does.

However, Xavi's passes need to split 2 layers of defence, while Messi's usually one. So, does this take away from Messi? Could Messi do the Xavi-esque passes if he practiced? Perhaps. His final ball is already excellent. But the tempo control of Xavi is unparallelled, and comes from years of experience at la masia and barcelona. You could never replicate that. Even if messi tried to play the way Xavi does, it would not work.

If you were to look at pure passing accuracy and passing technique, then you would have to do a competition with different ranges of passing to see who's more accurate. Xavi would probably edge Messi here by a slight margin I think. He's older, he's a CM, and has hit more passes in his lifetime than Messi has.
He will be more accurate.

Anyhow, I really think you can't compare the two properly. They are different styles of playmakers. As mentioned before, there is the incisive playmaker and the controlling playmaker. They are the best of each. Xavi's more consistent and has better passing completion rates, but again this is a result of their position on the pitch and their roles on the team.

Oh and btw, LOL @ the Sneijder comparison. I mean, he's a great player on the pitch but we're talking about passing abilities here.

jibers wrote:What ever you're smoking I want it. Xavi is great at what he does, but he is not in the same league as Messi, hell Iniesta is more talented than Xavi. Messi is being called the greatest footballer of all time ffs. Messi highest level is something no footballer in the world can come close to, eve Xavi at his best.

As others already pointed out, since the topic of the thread is Messi's passing, my post was about that obviously. I don't think there's anyone left even in the Madrid section that would still dispute that overall he's the best player in the world by miles currently.

I feel some on here are seriously underrating GOD's passing.
Its nowhere near as easy as GOD makes it look.Its because he is the supreme master at it that it looks easy.
Just elaborate on 2 points billy and dani made.
First GOD has to go through multiple layers to pull off a final pass while Messi generally has to go through just one layer.
Another point to note here is the impact of Messi moving into the center on Xavi's passing.
In 08-09 when Messi still played on the right Xavi had the primary responsibility of giving the final ball.And it directly reflected in his assists stat.He had something like 30 odd assists.
Then in 09-10 Messi moved into the center and took over a part of the responsibility of giving the final pass.As a result GOD's assists stat went down and he concentrated more on complete midfield domination.
In 10-11 Messi made his switch permanent and he now has the primary responsibility(if you can call it that) of providing the final pass.So with Messi directly in front of him we dont see Xavi providing the final pass as often.

Coming to dani's point about the weight of the pass.Another area which separates GOD and Messi when it comes to passing.
Xavi has it down to an exact science.He always always gets the weight of the pass right and this is such a crucial aspect when it comes to incisive passing.His passes are never underhit or overhit.They have the perfect weight behind them so as to enable the player receiving the ball to control it instantly.
With Messi he doesnt always get the weight of the pass right.Occcasionally its underhit or overhit.But to be fair to Messi no other player in the world compares to Xavi in this regard.

So Messi is a genius of a passer and certainly belongs in the elite category.
But he is still some way off GOD mode.

alexjanosik wrote:
Another point to note here is the impact of Messi moving into the center on Xavi's passing.
In 08-09 when Messi still played on the right Xavi had the primary responsibility of giving the final ball.And it directly reflected in his assists stat.He had something like 30 odd assists.
Then in 09-10 Messi moved into the center and took over a part of the responsibility of giving the final pass.As a result GOD's assists stat went down and he concentrated more on complete midfield domination.
In 10-11 Messi made his switch permanent and he now has the primary responsibility(if you can call it that) of providing the final pass.So with Messi directly in front of him we dont see Xavi providing the final pass as often.

That's an excellent point. That's one more reason why I admire Xavi so much. He shows so little regard for individual records and statistics. In other words he is what can be called the ultimate team player. Basically all this just goes to show once again that statistics often give a misleading picture about a player's actual importance and contribution to a team.

A point of final pass, I think Messi has produced better amount of outrageous final passes now about a year than Xavi. Just look at those assists that he gave for Iniesta in Supercup, Cesc goals, Villas goal in 5-0 against the name that thou shalt not name. They were all perfect, perfect. Just watched 5-0 against Villareal, where Messi gave the pass to linkup with Thiago in 5-0 goal, the diagonal pass with outside of his left foot, it's just unbelievable, the ease, the weight is perfect in nanogram scale. Xavi is more now as controlling passer than the final executioner.

I knew that someone is going to make this thread because recently messi makes magics with his passing .
The thing is final passing is not xavi's strengh. Xavi is master of controlling. Just the way he receives the ball checks everywhere and makes a safe pass this is his strengh. At one touch passing and final passing messi is better than him. At defence splitting passes xavi is master, though messi did it lot of times last season and this season.
Xavi's passes are more controllable and safe. Messi's passes sometimes are not safe but dont forget that he is making those passes under pressure, so he needs to decide fast. And fortunately messi is the fastest at thinking, the way he assisted to fabregas from first touch tells it. I think sometimes messi does passes that even master himself can not do, its obvious of course they are different players and they have different style

Hows this for final pass? It's like the ball and Pedro are magnets that pulls each other.

I think you could see in the Valencia game, he isnt the best of the best out there.

On about 10 minutes, he went on a dribble and Villa was wide open on the left. Messi continued to dribble and lost the ball when a goalscoring pass was on.

It was alot like his 3rd goal, Villa was wide open on the left. I dont know if he ignored him or just didnt see him, but he kept going and got his shot off and this time scored.

Also, he gives away some cheap passes every so often.

He clearly has a gift for a final ball, but I dont think he is the best.

jiopsi wrote:Hows this for final pass? It's like the ball and Pedro are magnets that pulls each other.

I still maintain that having messi in your team is an unfair advantage...

jibers wrote:I still maintain that having messi in your team is an unfair advantage...

Probably.

The Franchise wrote:I think you could see in the Valencia game, he isnt the best of the best out there.

On about 10 minutes, he went on a dribble and Villa was wide open on the left. Messi continued to dribble and lost the ball when a goalscoring pass was on.

It was alot like his 3rd goal, Villa was wide open on the left. I dont know if he ignored him or just didnt see him, but he kept going and got his shot off and this time scored.

Also, he gives away some cheap passes every so often.

He clearly has a gift for a final ball, but I dont think he is the best.

I dont think its a question of not seeing him.Villa is directly in the line of sight so ofcourse he sees him.
Its just that when he goes on one of those runs there is just one thing on his mind.Dribble the entire team and score.
And to an extent we want that in Messi.After all if everytime he passed the ball on a run,he wouldnt be Messi.
Right now I think the ratio is about right.He makes the right choice 3-4 times out of 5.
The cheap passes issue I mentioned in my first post.He gives away some easy passes by not getting the weight right.Just consistency issues and I expect him to get them sorted out soon.
But right now his final pass is of a very high standard.Barring Xavi I cant think of anyone with a superior one.

"But right now his final pass is of a very high standard.Barring Xavi I cant think of anyone with a superior one."

Cesc ?

alexjanosik wrote:

The Franchise wrote:I think you could see in the Valencia game, he isnt the best of the best out there.

On about 10 minutes, he went on a dribble and Villa was wide open on the left. Messi continued to dribble and lost the ball when a goalscoring pass was on.

It was alot like his 3rd goal, Villa was wide open on the left. I dont know if he ignored him or just didnt see him, but he kept going and got his shot off and this time scored.

Also, he gives away some cheap passes every so often.

He clearly has a gift for a final ball, but I dont think he is the best.

I dont think its a question of not seeing him.Villa is directly in the line of sight so ofcourse he sees him.
Its just that when he goes on one of those runs there is just one thing on his mind.Dribble the entire team and score.
And to an extent we want that in Messi.After all if everytime he passed the ball on a run,he wouldnt be Messi.
Right now I think the ratio is about right.He makes the right choice 3-4 times out of 5.
The cheap passes issue I mentioned in my first post.He gives away some easy passes by not getting the weight right.Just consistency issues and I expect him to get them sorted out soon.
But right now his final pass is of a very high standard.Barring Xavi I cant think of anyone with a superior one.

Sure Alex, I believe he saw him. But I think he should of passed.

I dont want him to pass everytime he dribbles, or even most of the time, its just about selecting the right option. Villa was the right option on both of those players, despite him scoring on the 2nd one.

But yes your right, he makes the right choice about 4 times out of 5.

Superior to Messi? Other then Xavi, nobody is.

But close, on his level or slightly higher there might be a few for me.

The Franchise wrote:

alexjanosik wrote:

The Franchise wrote:I think you could see in the Valencia game, he isnt the best of the best out there.

On about 10 minutes, he went on a dribble and Villa was wide open on the left. Messi continued to dribble and lost the ball when a goalscoring pass was on.

It was alot like his 3rd goal, Villa was wide open on the left. I dont know if he ignored him or just didnt see him, but he kept going and got his shot off and this time scored.

Also, he gives away some cheap passes every so often.

He clearly has a gift for a final ball, but I dont think he is the best.

I dont think its a question of not seeing him.Villa is directly in the line of sight so ofcourse he sees him.
Its just that when he goes on one of those runs there is just one thing on his mind.Dribble the entire team and score.
And to an extent we want that in Messi.After all if everytime he passed the ball on a run,he wouldnt be Messi.
Right now I think the ratio is about right.He makes the right choice 3-4 times out of 5.
The cheap passes issue I mentioned in my first post.He gives away some easy passes by not getting the weight right.Just consistency issues and I expect him to get them sorted out soon.
But right now his final pass is of a very high standard.Barring Xavi I cant think of anyone with a superior one.

Sure Alex, I believe he saw him. But I think he should of passed.

I dont want him to pass everytime he dribbles, or even most of the time, its just about selecting the right option. Villa was the right option on both of those players, despite him scoring on the 2nd one.

But yes your right, he makes the right choice about 4 times out of 5.

Superior to Messi? Other then Xavi, nobody is.

But close, on his level or slightly higher there might be a few for me.

I think this arguement is more simple than how both of you actually make it seem.

The fact is Messi DOES have the passing and vision skill that Alex describes.

The point I feel you are missing is that Messi IS NOT as selfless as he seems.

There are points within his runs that he does intend to score simply by himself as I'm surprised you did not see Messi's slight hesitance to pass to Villa which indicates he was aware of the whole situation in the box, yet sometimes, he wants to score despite the oppurtunities presented to him.

Think about this perspective.

I think it's more about judgement, rather than passing ability or vision. The same happened in A.Madrid game:



He can give the pass, when he sets his mind to it:

He is a great passer but I have that feeling that he isn't as good as Xavi or even equal though he has done fabulous through balls in the past that has left teams open-mouthed, e.g. Barcelona vs Real Madrid SuperCopa Second Leg. Through Pass to Inestia. A sensational pass that when through the gap of Ricardo and Pepe to find Inestia. He also did a few good passes against Osaunna too. He is a good passer though Xavi's passes create momenteum.

jiopsi wrote:I think it's more about judgement, rather than passing ability or vision. The same happened in A.Madrid game:



He can give the pass, when he sets his mind to it:

Btw third game a row that Villa has failed to score from Messi through ball. He has played great but he should bury these more often:

Against Valencia:



BATE



Outrageous pass to Abidal:

I would say Top 3.

There was a pass to Abidal that is a contender for Pass of the season.
Supreme vision and supreme pass.Laudrup would have been proud of that pass.
Too bad Abidal didnt finish.

alexjanosik wrote:There was a pass to Abidal that is a contender for Pass of the season.
Supreme vision and supreme pass.Laudrup would have been proud of that pass.
Too bad Abidal didnt finish.

amazing.

Inch/ nanogram perfect, whole team cutting pass:



Villa really doesn't want to score from these.

jiopsi wrote:Inch/ nanogram perfect, whole team cutting pass:



Villa really doesn't want to score from these.

What a pass!

But what do you mean with the bolded part? Villa did great apart from being offside.

harhar11 wrote:What a pass!

But what do you mean with the bolded part? Villa did great apart from being offside.

Well yes he did, but it's the fourth game a row Villa hasn't scored one of these. It's not bashing or anything, just an observation.

Villa misses alot of sitters.

harhar11 wrote:

jiopsi wrote:Inch/ nanogram perfect, whole team cutting pass:



Villa really doesn't want to score from these.

What a pass!

But what do you mean with the bolded part? Villa did great apart from being offside.

Alongside Xavi, I think Messi is definitely one of the best final passers in the world. I absolutely admire his "on the ground" diagonal passes, really a joy to behold. The best thing about him is that he always attract 2/3 defenders towards him all the time, therefore allowing so much space for villa ( too bad he is offside all the time). Arda Turan isn't bad either, btw

But the one thing i have noticed is that his decision making has become poorer, as pointed out by Jerry Armstrong, Messi has lost the possession the most in la liga so far (in match day Skysports commentary). You guys watch Messi way more than I do, what are your thoughts?

I forgot to add that pass in Jiopsi's sig is so *bleep* brilliant, as Ray Hudgson would say, he has "Chameleon eyes". lol