Re: How good is Messi's passing and vision?

by Harmonica Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:01 pm

Yeah, definitely one of the best. It's was a different kind of performance, say like vs. Arsenal or Zaragoza, where the goals were more magnificent, but in this game his overall play was glorious.

by FennecFox7 Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:07 pm

3 of those goals weren't too hard tbh, but that 4th goal :bow:

I love this guy, never complains, good attitute (for the most part)

by Albiceleste Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:28 pm

The Franchise wrote:Of Messi's Liga 10 Liga hattricks, only 1 included a penalty. Of Ronaldo's 13 hattricks, 7 included at least 1

by Ganso Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:29 pm

best player at chip shots ive ever seen

by The Franchise Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:49 pm

No come on boys, this wasnt his best game ever.

Countless Madrid games, the Arsenal game were better and there have been other games he didnt score this many (such as the Man Utd final last year) which are overall just as great.

by billionmillion Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:39 pm

love the way he changes his directions so quickly
How good is Messi's passing and vision? - Page 5 Di-ICQH

by BarcaLearning Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:25 pm

I agree this was one of the best ever performance from him I think, he just made the Valencia players look like headless chickens. Scored 4, made countless other plays.... looking at the sigs, we should have scored so many more! Loool! I love how he sees everything, and yet able to close control, shift it past players to make the angle for the passes.... hes doing Xavi there. In fact, one could argue he played an advanced role of Xavi in this game Very Happy

by FennecFox7 Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:49 pm

The Franchise wrote:No come on boys, this wasnt his best game ever.

Countless Madrid games, the Arsenal game were better and there have been other games he didnt score this many (such as the Man Utd final last year) which are overall just as great.

I agree with this

by jibers Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:15 pm

Well, I'm almost at the stage where I feel Messi has personally surpassed Maradona for me. I always maintained that Cocadona10 is the best I have ever seen, now I feel that Messi is on his level and will surpass him. Messi is scoring as many goals as Muller and has the same level of passing as Laudrup. Never seen such a complete player.

by DuringTheWar Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:42 am

International record

muller:

62 games/68 goals

messi:

66 games/19 goals

no comparison in terms of goalscoring

Hes not as complete as maradona either

by The Franchise Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:11 pm

Do you even watch Argetnina play?

by DuringTheWar Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:47 pm

I guess what you are getting at is that messi plays further away from goal for argentina. Thats a valid point to an extent, but he had 29(!) shots at the 2010 world cup and couldnt score one single goal, thats the worst ratio of any player at the world cup! the next worst was frank lampard with 15 shots and no goal. Then he couldnt score a single goal in the copa america, thats two international tournaments in a row where he didnt score a single goal, regardless if he is playing further away from goal thats really poor for a player like messi. Thats poor even for a player below messis standard. People say he plays as a midfielder for argentina, but he still blows countless chances in front of goal

So i find any comparison with mullers goal scoring ability laughable.

by BarrileteCosmico Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:00 pm

It's an embarrassing statistic, but can you make the argument that his shots were poor though? You can look over them here http://vimeo.com/13842320 , but the inescapable conclusion is that he was incredibly unlucky not to score at least once. Also notice how many goals he took part of either giving the assist or the pass before the assist, he was incredibly involved and almost all attacks went through him.

by billionmillion Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:49 pm

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:International record

muller:

62 games/68 goals

messi:

66 games/19 goals

no comparison in terms of goalscoring

Hes not as complete as maradona either

Klose also has record in world cups. its an irrelevant comparison, before messi was winger now he is midfielder for argentina. he never was striker, when he has midfield and plays as a forward you see what happens, and i think most people would take messi over muller as a forward

by The Franchise Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:51 pm

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:I guess what you are getting at is that messi plays further away from goal for argentina. Thats a valid point to an extent, but he had 29(!) shots at the 2010 world cup and couldnt score one single goal, thats the worst ratio of any playeral. Then he couldnt score a single goal in the copa america, thats two international tournaments in a row where he didnt score a single goal, regardless if he is playing further away from goal thats really poor for a player like messi. Thats poor even for a player below messis standard. People say he plays as a midfielder for argentina, but he still blows countless chances in front of goal

So i find any comparison with mullers goal scoring ability laughable.

I dont care how many shots he had, how many were good shots and how many were bad? How many were outside the box? How difficult where the chances?

I watched every single Argentina game and he hardly missed any guilt edged chances, instead most of his shots came from outside the box after starting his dribble 30 yards further away from goal than normal.

Point blank the point im making is, comparing the goal scoring for Messi for Argentina with a number 9 is pointless and stupid. Why dont we compare chances created and thing like this? You know, stuff he actually was supposed to be doing.

Blows countless chances my backside.

by DuringTheWar Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:59 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:It's an embarrassing statistic, but can you make the argument that his shots were poor though? You can look over them here http://vimeo.com/13842320 , but the inescapable conclusion is that he was incredibly unlucky not to score at least once. Also notice how many goals he took part of either giving the assist or the pass before the assist, he was incredibly involved and almost all attacks went through him.

I think he had a couple of great games against nigeria and south korea, did ok against greece but struggled with being man marked, and was really disappointing against mexico and germany. Overall he had many impressive moments but he went missing when it mattered, and people cant excuse him by saying germany was too good, argentina was the better passing team imo but stupid defending from set pieces and getting counter attacked was the problem. He was unimpressive against mexico as well, it was really frustrating because i wanted him to do well so much, especially after his first two performances

by DuringTheWar Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:05 pm

The Franchise wrote:
Diego Armando Maradona wrote:I guess what you are getting at is that messi plays further away from goal for argentina. Thats a valid point to an extent, but he had 29(!) shots at the 2010 world cup and couldnt score one single goal, thats the worst ratio of any playeral. Then he couldnt score a single goal in the copa america, thats two international tournaments in a row where he didnt score a single goal, regardless if he is playing further away from goal thats really poor for a player like messi. Thats poor even for a player below messis standard. People say he plays as a midfielder for argentina, but he still blows countless chances in front of goal

So i find any comparison with mullers goal scoring ability laughable.

I dont care how many shots he had, how many were good shots and how many were bad? How many were outside the box? How difficult where the chances?

I watched every single Argentina game and he hardly missed any guilt edged chances, instead most of his shots came from outside the box after starting his dribble 30 yards further away from goal than normal.

Point blank the point im making is, comparing the goal scoring for Messi for Argentina with a number 9 is pointless and stupid. Why dont we compare chances created and thing like this? You know, stuff he actually was supposed to be doing.

Blows countless chances my backside.

He did blow a lot of chances, i can remember right now a couple against nigeria where he should have scored, as well as one vs s.korea where he hit the post, oh and the chance he had to knock uruguay out of the copa america at the end of the game that he missed, he was pretty much one on one with the keeper

But i agree its a stupid comparison, which is what i've been saying, muller is a better goalscorer because that is his game and he was a master at it, messi is a different player and much better at everything else

by jibers Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:29 pm

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
Diego Armando Maradona wrote:I guess what you are getting at is that messi plays further away from goal for argentina. Thats a valid point to an extent, but he had 29(!) shots at the 2010 world cup and couldnt score one single goal, thats the worst ratio of any playeral. Then he couldnt score a single goal in the copa america, thats two international tournaments in a row where he didnt score a single goal, regardless if he is playing further away from goal thats really poor for a player like messi. Thats poor even for a player below messis standard. People say he plays as a midfielder for argentina, but he still blows countless chances in front of goal

So i find any comparison with mullers goal scoring ability laughable.

I dont care how many shots he had, how many were good shots and how many were bad? How many were outside the box? How difficult where the chances?

I watched every single Argentina game and he hardly missed any guilt edged chances, instead most of his shots came from outside the box after starting his dribble 30 yards further away from goal than normal.

Point blank the point im making is, comparing the goal scoring for Messi for Argentina with a number 9 is pointless and stupid. Why dont we compare chances created and thing like this? You know, stuff he actually was supposed to be doing.

Blows countless chances my backside.

He did blow a lot of chances, i can remember right now a couple against nigeria where he should have scored, as well as one vs s.korea where he hit the post, oh and the chance he had to knock uruguay out of the copa america at the end of the game that he missed, he was pretty much one on one with the keeper

But i agree its a stupid comparison, which is what i've been saying, muller is a better goalscorer because that is his game and he was a master at it, messi is a different player and much better at everything else

Dude calms down. I was talking at club level. Messi has a similar record to Muller and I reckon his passing is a shade below Diegos. Messi is more complete than Diego overall for me.

by DuringTheWar Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:38 pm

How is he more complete? if we break it down into categories:

Ball control: Maradona
Passing: Maradona
Dribbling: Tie
Shooting: Maradona
Goal scoring: Messi (for the fact he plays closer to goal than maradona)
Playmaking: Maradona
Influence/leadership: Maradona
Heading: Maradona
Weak foot: Tie

Tbh i can understand why some people argue messi is better because he is wonderful to watch play, but i dont understand why you think messi is more complete. Arguing who is more complete is a very very different topic to arguing who is a better player anyway. Even if somehow messi is more complete it wouldnt automatically make him better. Cruyff was more complete than messi as well

by The Franchise Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:04 pm

First of all, your asking Barca fans...do you really expect anything other than Messi?

Second, we are comparing these things here across different eras so that automatically makes some of these false. For example, Maradona and Messi are equal dribblers you say..but I say the game today is much faster and there is much less space, therefore its harder to dribble. We can do these for various different aspects.

Thirdly, looking at those individual aspects doesnt create "most complete" either. People are going to say, no player matches Messi's goals total plus creation. They will say, the gap between their scoring ability in favour of Messi is FAR greater than the gap in their creativity, if a gap even exists.

Basic what you posted was, Maradona is more complete but even if he isnt, Messi isnt better anyway.

by billionmillion Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:11 pm

These maradona fanboys these days need a break. first vapotrini now this boy

Ball Control: Tie (Stop lying. Messi can control the ball in any situation. and messi's ball control while running is miles better than cocadona)
Midfield Passing: Maradona
Attack Passing: Messi
Dribbling: Tie
Shooting: Tie
Scoring: Messi
Playmaking: Maradona
Leadership: Maradona
Heading: Tie (How did you put maradona above messi is very interesing)
Weak foot: Tie
Speed: Messi (you didnt inlucde this category because it doesnt suit your argument)
Acceleration: Messi
Changing directions at speed: Messi

Nowadays being quick and fast is more important so i dont think maradona could do what messi does now. They have different abilities so you need to include all if you are making an argument

by Harmonica Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:13 pm

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:How is he more complete? if we break it down into categories:

Ball control: Maradona
Passing: Maradona
Dribbling: Tie
Shooting: Maradona
Goal scoring: Messi (for the fact he plays closer to goal than maradona)
Playmaking: Maradona
Influence/leadership: Maradona
Heading: Maradona
Weak foot: Tie

Ball control: Messi
Passing: Messi
Dribbling: Messi
Shooting: Messi
Goal scoring: Messi
Playmaking: Maradona (for time being)
Influence/leadership: Maradona
Heading: Messi
Freekicks: Maradona
Penalties: Tie
Weak foot: Maradona

And Maradona was my first influence in football, and I have watched him from WC86 and Napoli days. Imo Messi was as good already at 22 years old, better at 23 and now at 24 there is no competition. So there you have it.

by Harmonica Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:17 pm

billionmillion wrote:These maradona fanboys these days need a break. first vapotrini now this boy

It is Vaportini. Laughing

by DuringTheWar Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:28 pm

The Franchise wrote:
First of all, your asking Barca fans...do you really expect anything other than Messi?

Second, we are comparing these things here across different eras so that automatically makes some of these false. For example, Maradona and Messi are equal dribblers you say..but I say the game today is much faster and there is much less space, therefore its harder to dribble. We can do these for various different aspects.

Thirdly, looking at those individual aspects doesnt create "most complete" either. People are going to say, no player matches Messi's goals total plus creation. They will say, the gap between their scoring ability in favour of Messi is FAR greater than the gap in their creativity, if a gap even exists.

Basic what you posted was, Maradona is more complete but even if he isnt, Messi isnt better anyway.

That is stupid. Maradona did not get space, he was the most dangerous player on the field which automatically meant there would always be someone man marking him, usually at least two players trying to cut off all his space.

And no, it was another poster that used completeness to argue messi being better.

a) i dont think messi is more complete and had to point that out
b) even if he were it is not the deciding factor of who is better, likewise maradona is not better because he is more complete

by billionmillion Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:29 pm

jiopsi wrote:
billionmillion wrote:These maradona fanboys these days need a break. first vapotrini now this boy
It is Vaportini.

by The Franchise Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:31 pm

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
First of all, your asking Barca fans...do you really expect anything other than Messi?

Second, we are comparing these things here across different eras so that automatically makes some of these false. For example, Maradona and Messi are equal dribblers you say..but I say the game today is much faster and there is much less space, therefore its harder to dribble. We can do these for various different aspects.

Thirdly, looking at those individual aspects doesnt create "most complete" either. People are going to say, no player matches Messi's goals total plus creation. They will say, the gap between their scoring ability in favour of Messi is FAR greater than the gap in their creativity, if a gap even exists.

Basic what you posted was, Maradona is more complete but even if he isnt, Messi isnt better anyway.

That is stupid. Maradona did not get space, he was the most dangerous player on the field which automatically meant there would always be someone man marking him, usually at least two players trying to cut off all his space.

And no, it was another poster that used completeness to argue messi being better.

a) i dont think messi is more complete and had to point that out
b) even if he were it is not the deciding factor of who is better, likewise maradona is not better because he is more complete

But the players were slower, transitions were slower, tactics less defensive. So it doesnt matter if Maradona was the best player, those things still remain.

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