How good is Messi's passing and vision?

After the way he has passed the ball this season,just had to make a thread on it.
He has always been a good passer and had good vision.But he is such an outrageous dribbler that he never used it as much in his earlier seasons.Two seasons ago I would call him a very good passer.
It was last season that he really stepped it up.Last season he became a world class passer.I think being the only playmaker and passer for Argentina has forced him to bring this hidden tool out of his box.
This season he has stepped it up another level and I would now say that he is an elite passer.The level of his passing has been so good that he favors well when compared to some of the legendary passers in history.
And the thing is he pulls out 3,4 genius passes every single game and the variety of his passes is also stunning.

In the Osasuna game for instance I saw him play 5,6 sublime passes.There was the lob for the Fabregas goal( first touch pass).Lob for the Xavi goal.Another lob to Abidal who headed against the psot.An exquisite through ball for Fab.Another one to Villa.Just seemed to pull them out at will.
The lob over the defense seems to be his favorite pass and he is getting outrageously good at it.Almost Laudrup like in execution.

So the question is how good is his passing if we were to rank him.
Is he a top 5 passer in the world?
Is he a top 3 passer in the world?
Is he the best final passer in the world?
How does he rank among Barca passers?
And finally is he on the level of GOD(also spelled XAVI)?

IMO he is the best final passer in the world.Top 3 overall.Short and medium range he is as good as it gets.
The only glitch I see is sometimes he tends to play loose passes in midfield.And they are not even tough passes.Simple passes that he gives away.So needs to improve the consistency a bit more.
Still a bit off GOD mode(Xavi mode) but a genius passer nonetheless.

He is even better than Xavi at giving the final ball IMO.

I maintain the opinion that Xavi’s ability to find cracks in defences is unique.
Messi has the ability to cruise through defenders and then his final pass only needs to go through one or two people.
In that respect Messi’s final pass is sublime but I wouldn’t place him in Xavi’s level whose passes split multilayer defences casually

billy_gr wrote:I maintain the opinion that Xavi’s ability to find cracks in defences is unique.
Messi has the ability to cruise through defenders and then his final pass only needs to go through one or two people.
In that respect Messi’s final pass is sublime but I wouldn’t place him in Xavi’s level whose passes split multilayer defences casually

A very good point which is why I still place Xavi higher.
So where would you place Messi?

billy_gr wrote:I maintain the opinion that Xavi’s ability to find cracks in defences is unique.
Messi has the ability to cruise through defenders and then his final pass only needs to go through one or two people.
In that respect Messi’s final pass is sublime but I wouldn’t place him in Xavi’s level whose passes split multilayer defences casually

That's a good point, Messi also gives final passes closer to the goal, so they are relatively easier than Xavi's. However, he's so good at it, that I really think he is at least as good as Xavi. He's an assisting machine.

To reply to both; not taking anything away from Messi, but I feel Xavi’s passes are much more difficult to perform.
The actual ball speed of his passes to make the ball easily controllable always amazed me at those distances.

Let’s put it that way, I believe that Messi is easily in the top 5 “short passers”, however he doesn’t try enough long ones for me to say mainly because of the position he plays of course

Well he does dribbles forward in full speed while being chased by 2-3 defenders then executes the final ball with relatively ease.

That is very hard to do lmao.

While being chased by defenders, Messi gives more space for his teammate to recieve the final ball compared to Xavi who needs to find gaps more often to execute his final pass w/c i think is more difficult to perform.

Well let's just say that i'm now lost for words about this dude.

Its insane and I cant imagine how complete he will be at peak

billy_gr wrote:
To reply to both; not taking anything away from Messi, but I feel Xavi’s passes are much more difficult to perform.
The actual ball speed of his passes to make the ball easily controllable always amazed me at those distances.

Let’s put it that way, I believe that Messi is easily in the top 5 “short passers”, however he doesn’t try enough long ones for me to say mainly because of the position he plays of course

But who at Barca plays long passes?Not even Xavi does.Doesnt mean Xavi cant.
I have always found long passes to be a bit overrated(agree with dani here).Sure they look brilliant but the end result is not always there.
Messi is more than capable of playing a long pass.Just because he doesnt (because of the system) doesnt mean he cant.
We have to judge him by short and medium range passes and he is as good as anyone in the game at them barring GOD himself.

When I say long passes I don’t necessarily mean 40 meter ones or something like this.
Thing is that when the assist comes from Xavi, iniesta or busquets it has most likely covered more distance with more bodies to bypass.
That aspect makes it more difficult than messi’s usual final passes.

However we’ve seen Messi performing passes like this as well when he feels like assuming amore midfield role.
I just feel more competent saying his shorter passes are infallible and give the title of the all around best passer to Xavi.

The incredible thing about Messi is that he improves every season.
Some doubted whether he would improve this season.I was fully confident that he would and he has by taking his passing to another level.
He has done so by watching and learning from the best,Xavi himself.
Commentators often say that Xavi has eyes in the back of the head.Well he does not.Watching him closely he is always twisting his head.First he will glance right,then left,then right again.All very short glances and all less than a fraction of a second.
And in those fractions of a second he forms a map of the entire pitch with all the players on it(both his team and opposition).
And thats the reason why he has unparalleled vision and such unparalleled passing.
To play a genius pass you have to see it first.First the pass has to be visioned and then executed.

Two seasons ago Messi did not do this(glancing back and forth).Observing him closely now,he has added it to his game and can be seen routinely glancing back and forth.As a result he sees things beforehand and hence he can execute passes better.

I dont think he is the elite final passer, but one of the very best for sure.

I think Xavi gives final passes of a higher degree of difficulty. He isnt quite with Xavi in terms of delivery of the final ball, getting the perfect weight every single time.

I dont think about vision, I think Xavi intentionally looks for a pass more. He will scan and look more, Messi knows he can dribble so he doesnt have to always seek it out. So while their vision may or may not be comparable, their styles cant be forgotten.

Four have voted for him in the GOD mode.
dani
How do I find out who voted for which option?

I am not sure, let me see if thats still possible.

I would rate Messi as one of the elite passers in the game atm. You judge by results. Considering the fact that the guy is always almost closed down and he can still manage to spot a pass. Xavi has more space to operate than Messi, because Messi plays higher up the pitch. The only reason that I would say people would say thast Xavi is better is because that is what he is known for, xavi attemptrs less risky passes and controls the games tempo. Messi is as good for me. Definately. Scary player. Laudrup still is a leaue of his own though.

billy_gr wrote:I maintain the opinion that Xavi’s ability to find cracks in defences is unique.
Messi has the ability to cruise through defenders and then his final pass only needs to go through one or two people.
In that respect Messi’s final pass is sublime but I wouldn’t place him in Xavi’s level whose passes split multilayer defences casually

Excellent points. I think you have pinpointed the difference very well.

alexjanosik wrote:he has by taking his passing to another level.

Very true

EDIT:double post

alexjanosik wrote:

billy_gr wrote:
To reply to both; not taking anything away from Messi, but I feel Xavi’s passes are much more difficult to perform.
The actual ball speed of his passes to make the ball easily controllable always amazed me at those distances.

Let’s put it that way, I believe that Messi is easily in the top 5 “short passers”, however he doesn’t try enough long ones for me to say mainly because of the position he plays of course

But who at Barca plays long passes?Not even Xavi does.Doesnt mean Xavi cant.
I have always found long passes to be a bit overrated(agree with dani here).Sure they look brilliant but the end result is not always there.
Messi is more than capable of playing a long pass.Just because he doesnt (because of the system) doesnt mean he cant.
We have to judge him by short and medium range passes and he is as good as anyone in the game at them barring GOD himself.

Xavi gives quite a few long passes from what ive seen,specially to find alves

I apologize as I'll be honest as I haven't read any of the posts in this thread for the reason that I have my own strong opinion on this.

Messi simply is among the elite level of passing today along with Xavi, Pirlo, Iniesta, Xabi, etc.

Messi at this point of his career is at the stage where he is required to play a different role in which his greatest strengths are exploited as this is his dribbling, pace and goal scoring ability.

Yet what will happen when his pace is waning and the sinews develop in his inevitably as age proceeds?

We have seen players like Figo, Baggio, Giggs, Totti etc all adapt to the game when their pace is no longer an asset and even guile can't help you dribble past elite defenders as age is cruel yet these players have defied age and adapted accordingly.

Messi as we know is increasingly dropping more and more deep similar to Maradona in his Napoli days as he does it more then a false 9/10 does!

Messi is intelligent enough to listen to his body when his legs will soon fail him swoop past defenders as their will be a time where he will have to decide between being a Baggio or being Milan's ronaldinho.

I see Messi eventually dropping deep to a AM role to even a CM role where his superb vision and passing range can be exploited as although he will have to learn from Xavito to understand patience, spaces, and a cool enough head to wait for the moment for the final ball and most importantly the vision to build up a play from scratch and hold possession.

There will be a time where little messi will be questioned whether or not he can skip past the best like he used but I'm confident he will be smart enough to adapt to his body's waning physicality and take the role of a dynamic mid like Iniesta or even the crown of Xavi's dying art of playing as a CM/DLP

A better question would be who is better than Messi right now. Xavi is the only one I can safely say that is better. Other than him, Cesc, Iniesta, Sneijder, maybe Pirlo too, are all on a similar level, so top 5 should be pretty accurate.

Am I forgetting anyone? And please don't say Ozil or Xabi

Stejo wrote:A better question would be who is better than Messi right now. Xavi is the only one I can safely say that is better. Other than him, Cesc, Iniesta, Sneijder, maybe Pirlo too, are all on a similar level, so top 5 should be pretty accurate.

Am I forgetting anyone? And please don't say Ozil or Xabi

What ever you're smoking I want it. Xavi is great at what he does, but he is not in the same league as Messi, hell Iniesta is more talented than Xavi. Messi is being called the greatest footballer of all time ffs. Messi highest level is something no footballer in the world can come close to, eve Xavi at his best.

Jibers, i think he meant Xavi is the best in passing.

jibers wrote:

Stejo wrote:A better question would be who is better than Messi right now. Xavi is the only one I can safely say that is better. Other than him, Cesc, Iniesta, Sneijder, maybe Pirlo too, are all on a similar level, so top 5 should be pretty accurate.

Am I forgetting anyone? And please don't say Ozil or Xabi

What ever you're smoking I want it. Xavi is great at what he does, but he is not in the same league as Messi, hell Iniesta is more talented than Xavi. Messi is being called the greatest footballer of all time ffs. Messi highest level is something no footballer in the world can come close to, eve Xavi at his best.

I think he's speaking specifically of passing attributes, not as an overall footballer.

Jack Daniels wrote:Well he does dribbles forward in full speed while being chased by 2-3 defenders then executes the final ball with relatively ease.

That is very hard to do lmao.

While being chased by defenders, Messi gives more space for his teammate to recieve the final ball compared to Xavi who needs to find gaps more often to execute his final pass w/c i think is more difficult to perform.

Well let's just say that i'm now lost for words about this dude.

I've highlighted the part that I think is really important. For this reason I voted Messi as GOD mode.

Messi plays a more advanced role than Xavi on the pitch, so naturally he will be going up against CB's and DM's as opposed to Xavi. Messi has it harder in that sense.
Also, he's very closely watched by 3-4 defenders in every match. Xavi sits deeper, and has way more time on the ball than Messi does.

However, Xavi's passes need to split 2 layers of defence, while Messi's usually one. So, does this take away from Messi? Could Messi do the Xavi-esque passes if he practiced? Perhaps. His final ball is already excellent. But the tempo control of Xavi is unparallelled, and comes from years of experience at la masia and barcelona. You could never replicate that. Even if messi tried to play the way Xavi does, it would not work.

If you were to look at pure passing accuracy and passing technique, then you would have to do a competition with different ranges of passing to see who's more accurate. Xavi would probably edge Messi here by a slight margin I think. He's older, he's a CM, and has hit more passes in his lifetime than Messi has.
He will be more accurate.

Anyhow, I really think you can't compare the two properly. They are different styles of playmakers. As mentioned before, there is the incisive playmaker and the controlling playmaker. They are the best of each. Xavi's more consistent and has better passing completion rates, but again this is a result of their position on the pitch and their roles on the team.

Oh and btw, LOL @ the Sneijder comparison. I mean, he's a great player on the pitch but we're talking about passing abilities here.