Re: la liga should embrace the scottish comparison..

by free_cat Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:18 am

Cyberman is completely right that there's a huge difference in quality between Barça & Madrid to the rest of Spanish league. Bigger than in the PL. However, the difference to SL is that in La Liga there are good teams too.

I just think that Barça and Madrid are probably above any other team in Europe right now. Hope I'm not right though, and Madrid is knocked out in CL next season by an english or italian club!!!

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:21 am

Giuvitojuve wrote:

Have to agree with Cyber on this one. I don't understand why it's become an EPL v. La Liga debate when the question was raised as to how La Liga could become more competitive. It's a valid one.

Welcome to Goal Legacy.....

Where if you question my league's competitive level, i bash yours.

by EarlyPrototype Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:22 am

Real and Barca imo would be the favourites for any league, they wont walk over the rest of the teams in the EPL and the gap between 2nd and 3rd would be much smaller but still enough to be called a two horse race tbh.

by free_cat Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:26 am

No one can explain me about this "splitting" SL that Cyber mentioned?

by RED Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:29 am

free_cat wrote:Cyberman is completely right that there's a huge difference in quality between Barça & Madrid to the rest of Spanish league. Bigger than in the PL. However, the difference to SL is that in La Liga there are good teams too.

I just think that Barça and Madrid are probably above any other team in Europe right now. Hope I'm not right though, and Madrid is knocked out in CL next season by an english or italian club!!!

barca I accept, but RM are the most overrated team in years. What in the f*ck have they done to get all this praise from people recently?

Overrated as hell.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:31 am

free_cat wrote:No one can explain me about this "splitting" SL that Cyber mentioned?

Originally the SPL contained 10 clubs, but it subsequently enlarged to 12 for the 2000–01 season onwards. The increase from 10 clubs to 12 was part of the deal offered to obtain approval from SFL member clubs. Since then, the SPL has operated a "split league format" to prevent the need for a 44-game schedule, which was once used in the Scottish Premier Division, but is now considered to be too high a number of games in a league season.
Under this system, after 33 games (i.e., when every club has played every other club three times, either twice away and once at home or vice-versa) the division is split into two halves. The clubs play a further five matches against the teams in their half of the division, taking their total to 38 games. This can (and often does) result in the team placed seventh having a higher points total than the team placed sixth, because their final five games are considerably easier. For example, in the 2005–06 season, the seventh placed club, Inverness Caledonian Thistle, gained more points than the fourth placed club, Hibernian.

by free_cat Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:35 am

Devil-Is-Red wrote:
free_cat wrote:Cyberman is completely right that there's a huge difference in quality between Barça & Madrid to the rest of Spanish league. Bigger than in the PL. However, the difference to SL is that in La Liga there are good teams too.

I just think that Barça and Madrid are probably above any other team in Europe right now. Hope I'm not right though, and Madrid is knocked out in CL next season by an english or italian club!!!

barca I accept, but RM are the most overrated team in years. What in the f*ck have they done to get all this praise from people recently?

Overrated as hell.

I hope you are right! I also think that Madrid are still "unproven", in the sense that aside from parking the bus and playing rugby against Barça, they haven't yet played a game face to face against other Europe's best (ManU, Chelsea, Inter... etc).

by RED Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:36 am

RM are a great team no doubt about it...But I always see these "they are far above every other team in europe apart from Barca" comments all the time. Winds me up.

by free_cat Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:38 am

Immaculate_Mole wrote:
free_cat wrote:No one can explain me about this "splitting" SL that Cyber mentioned?

Originally the SPL contained 10 clubs, but it subsequently enlarged to 12 for the 2000–01 season onwards. The increase from 10 clubs to 12 was part of the deal offered to obtain approval from SFL member clubs. Since then, the SPL has operated a "split league format" to prevent the need for a 44-game schedule, which was once used in the Scottish Premier Division, but is now considered to be too high a number of games in a league season.
Under this system, after 33 games (i.e., when every club has played every other club three times, either twice away and once at home or vice-versa) the division is split into two halves. The clubs play a further five matches against the teams in their half of the division, taking their total to 38 games. This can (and often does) result in the team placed seventh having a higher points total than the team placed sixth, because their final five games are considerably easier. For example, in the 2005–06 season, the seventh placed club, Inverness Caledonian Thistle, gained more points than the fourth placed club, Hibernian.

Very interesting. I didn't know that. I don't think that could apply to la Liga at all though. No one would want it, and fans wouldn't want yet another Barça Madrid.

by Giuvitojuve Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:40 am

free_cat wrote:
Immaculate_Mole wrote:
free_cat wrote:No one can explain me about this "splitting" SL that Cyber mentioned?

Originally the SPL contained 10 clubs, but it subsequently enlarged to 12 for the 2000–01 season onwards. The increase from 10 clubs to 12 was part of the deal offered to obtain approval from SFL member clubs. Since then, the SPL has operated a "split league format" to prevent the need for a 44-game schedule, which was once used in the Scottish Premier Division, but is now considered to be too high a number of games in a league season.
Under this system, after 33 games (i.e., when every club has played every other club three times, either twice away and once at home or vice-versa) the division is split into two halves. The clubs play a further five matches against the teams in their half of the division, taking their total to 38 games. This can (and often does) result in the team placed seventh having a higher points total than the team placed sixth, because their final five games are considerably easier. For example, in the 2005–06 season, the seventh placed club, Inverness Caledonian Thistle, gained more points than the fourth placed club, Hibernian.

Very interesting. I didn't know that. I don't think that could apply to la Liga at all though. No one would want it, and fans wouldn't want yet another Barça Madrid.

Yep, pretty sure 4-6 a year is enough.

It's exciting until you realize that if you wait a couple of hours the next one might be on.

by maverick Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:51 am

Devil-Is-Red wrote:
free_cat wrote:Cyberman is completely right that there's a huge difference in quality between Barça & Madrid to the rest of Spanish league. Bigger than in the PL. However, the difference to SL is that in La Liga there are good teams too.

I just think that Barça and Madrid are probably above any other team in Europe right now. Hope I'm not right though, and Madrid is knocked out in CL next season by an english or italian club!!!

barca I accept, but RM are the most overrated team in years. What in the f*ck have they done to get all this praise from people recently?

Overrated as hell.

Madrid fans are good at hyping them at. They still havent proven anything. they past to the round of 16 for the first time in 7 years. spurs and lyon were nothing. even though they beat lyon for the first time in 8 attempts in like the last 5 years. wtf is that. their record against lyon is so poor. they're not even the best in france anymore. they finally beat them after spedning 500 million and getting the best tactician in the world. Their win against milan was off two lucky goals. The wall wasnt set up properly and ozils goal was big deflection. milan beat them at their stadium 3-2 anyway the previous year. In previous years they lost against bayern, liverpool (absolutely flogged), and juventus. i really cant remember the last time when they convincingly beat a big european team. oh and barca continues to rape them.

by the xcx Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:59 am

maverick wrote:
Devil-Is-Red wrote:
free_cat wrote:Cyberman is completely right that there's a huge difference in quality between Barça & Madrid to the rest of Spanish league. Bigger than in the PL. However, the difference to SL is that in La Liga there are good teams too.

I just think that Barça and Madrid are probably above any other team in Europe right now. Hope I'm not right though, and Madrid is knocked out in CL next season by an english or italian club!!!

barca I accept, but RM are the most overrated team in years. What in the f*ck have they done to get all this praise from people recently?

Overrated as hell.

Madrid fans are good at hyping them at. They still havent proven anything. they past to the round of 16 for the first time in 7 years. spurs and lyon were nothing. even though they beat lyon for the first time in 8 attempts in like the last 5 years. wtf is that. their record against lyon is so poor. they're not even the best in france anymore. they finally beat them after spedning 500 million and getting the best tactician in the world. Their win against milan was off two lucky goals. The wall wasnt set up properly and ozils goal was big deflection. milan beat them at their stadium 3-2 anyway the previous year. In previous years they lost against bayern, liverpool (absolutely flogged), and juventus. i really cant remember the last time when they convincingly beat a big european team. oh and barca continues to rape them.

la liga should embrace the scottish comparison.. - Page 4 Thank-10

by maverick Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:01 am

The xcx wrote:
maverick wrote:
Devil-Is-Red wrote:
free_cat wrote:Cyberman is completely right that there's a huge difference in quality between Barça & Madrid to the rest of Spanish league. Bigger than in the PL. However, the difference to SL is that in La Liga there are good teams too.

I just think that Barça and Madrid are probably above any other team in Europe right now. Hope I'm not right though, and Madrid is knocked out in CL next season by an english or italian club!!!

barca I accept, but RM are the most overrated team in years. What in the f*ck have they done to get all this praise from people recently?

Overrated as hell.

Madrid fans are good at hyping them at. They still havent proven anything. they past to the round of 16 for the first time in 7 years. spurs and lyon were nothing. even though they beat lyon for the first time in 8 attempts in like the last 5 years. wtf is that. their record against lyon is so poor. they're not even the best in france anymore. they finally beat them after spedning 500 million and getting the best tactician in the world. Their win against milan was off two lucky goals. The wall wasnt set up properly and ozils goal was big deflection. milan beat them at their stadium 3-2 anyway the previous year. In previous years they lost against bayern, liverpool (absolutely flogged), and juventus. i really cant remember the last time when they convincingly beat a big european team. oh and barca continues to rape them.

it doesnt seem obvious. in the football world it seems as if madrid have been dominating for the past few years.

by Dnmac4 Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:03 am

Lord Spencer wrote:
che wrote:
Devil-Is-Red wrote:

It's really annoying the way you always suck up to Barca.

so man utd didn't get completely obliterated in both cl finals they played against barcelona?

mkay...

2-1 and 2-0 do not equate to complete obliteration mate. And don't come to me with possession statistics because empty possession does not mean a thing. I am not a fan of both teams, and not a fan of Madrid so don't think I am talking to defend anyone. It just annoys me when someone over exaggerates. It means people actually listen to our rubbish selling media.

UM, it was 3-1, and 2-0. Pretty surprised everyone let you get away with that. So if the score statistic doesn't count, and possession statistic doesn't count, according to you the fact that the media called it a drubbing doesn't count, then please inform us what does count because i'm pretty sure we can pull that stat and it will tell you Barca dominated both finals. I mean, did you not watch the games???? No offense Man U fans, I love you.

by the xcx Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:05 am

maverick wrote:
The xcx wrote:
maverick wrote:
Devil-Is-Red wrote:
free_cat wrote:Cyberman is completely right that there's a huge difference in quality between Barça & Madrid to the rest of Spanish league. Bigger than in the PL. However, the difference to SL is that in La Liga there are good teams too.

I just think that Barça and Madrid are probably above any other team in Europe right now. Hope I'm not right though, and Madrid is knocked out in CL next season by an english or italian club!!!

barca I accept, but RM are the most overrated team in years. What in the f*ck have they done to get all this praise from people recently?

Overrated as hell.

Madrid fans are good at hyping them at. They still havent proven anything. they past to the round of 16 for the first time in 7 years. spurs and lyon were nothing. even though they beat lyon for the first time in 8 attempts in like the last 5 years. wtf is that. their record against lyon is so poor. they're not even the best in france anymore. they finally beat them after spedning 500 million and getting the best tactician in the world. Their win against milan was off two lucky goals. The wall wasnt set up properly and ozils goal was big deflection. milan beat them at their stadium 3-2 anyway the previous year. In previous years they lost against bayern, liverpool (absolutely flogged), and juventus. i really cant remember the last time when they convincingly beat a big european team. oh and barca continues to rape them.

it doesnt seem obvious. in the football world it seems as if madrid have been dominating for the past few years.

So we were in a rough patch, dosent that apply to every club?

by maverick Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:11 am

The xcx wrote:
maverick wrote:
The xcx wrote:
maverick wrote:
Devil-Is-Red wrote:
free_cat wrote:Cyberman is completely right that there's a huge difference in quality between Barça & Madrid to the rest of Spanish league. Bigger than in the PL. However, the difference to SL is that in La Liga there are good teams too.

I just think that Barça and Madrid are probably above any other team in Europe right now. Hope I'm not right though, and Madrid is knocked out in CL next season by an english or italian club!!!

barca I accept, but RM are the most overrated team in years. What in the f*ck have they done to get all this praise from people recently?

Overrated as hell.

Madrid fans are good at hyping them at. They still havent proven anything. they past to the round of 16 for the first time in 7 years. spurs and lyon were nothing. even though they beat lyon for the first time in 8 attempts in like the last 5 years. wtf is that. their record against lyon is so poor. they're not even the best in france anymore. they finally beat them after spedning 500 million and getting the best tactician in the world. Their win against milan was off two lucky goals. The wall wasnt set up properly and ozils goal was big deflection. milan beat them at their stadium 3-2 anyway the previous year. In previous years they lost against bayern, liverpool (absolutely flogged), and juventus. i really cant remember the last time when they convincingly beat a big european team. oh and barca continues to rape them.

it doesnt seem obvious. in the football world it seems as if madrid have been dominating for the past few years.
So we were in a rough patch, dosent that apply to every club?

you still are in a rough patch

by cyberman Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:14 am

Madrid are in no mans land right now. Its unfair to judge them solely on their results v Barca yet ridiculous to judge them v the also rans of Spain.
Judge them v Spurs? If im not mistaken, they didnt beat any of the top 4 in England last year, even Jose said that nothing could be read from it because of Peter Crouch.
They havent the recent CL pedigree of a Utd or even a Chelsea, so how they can be deemed better is beyond me
Little wonder Barca spanked us x2, our weakest point is their strongest. We cant get our midfield dominated by WBA and Liverpool away and expect to keep Barca quiet.
Sort that out and well see what happens

by the xcx Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:14 am

maverick wrote:
The xcx wrote:
maverick wrote:
The xcx wrote:
maverick wrote:
Devil-Is-Red wrote:
free_cat wrote:Cyberman is completely right that there's a huge difference in quality between Barça & Madrid to the rest of Spanish league. Bigger than in the PL. However, the difference to SL is that in La Liga there are good teams too.

I just think that Barça and Madrid are probably above any other team in Europe right now. Hope I'm not right though, and Madrid is knocked out in CL next season by an english or italian club!!!

barca I accept, but RM are the most overrated team in years. What in the f*ck have they done to get all this praise from people recently?

Overrated as hell.

Madrid fans are good at hyping them at. They still havent proven anything. they past to the round of 16 for the first time in 7 years. spurs and lyon were nothing. even though they beat lyon for the first time in 8 attempts in like the last 5 years. wtf is that. their record against lyon is so poor. they're not even the best in france anymore. they finally beat them after spedning 500 million and getting the best tactician in the world. Their win against milan was off two lucky goals. The wall wasnt set up properly and ozils goal was big deflection. milan beat them at their stadium 3-2 anyway the previous year. In previous years they lost against bayern, liverpool (absolutely flogged), and juventus. i really cant remember the last time when they convincingly beat a big european team. oh and barca continues to rape them.

it doesnt seem obvious. in the football world it seems as if madrid have been dominating for the past few years.
So we were in a rough patch, dosent that apply to every club?

you still are in a rough patch

true true

by the xcx Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:15 am

maverick wrote:
The xcx wrote:
maverick wrote:
The xcx wrote:
maverick wrote:
Devil-Is-Red wrote:
free_cat wrote:Cyberman is completely right that there's a huge difference in quality between Barça & Madrid to the rest of Spanish league. Bigger than in the PL. However, the difference to SL is that in La Liga there are good teams too.

I just think that Barça and Madrid are probably above any other team in Europe right now. Hope I'm not right though, and Madrid is knocked out in CL next season by an english or italian club!!!

barca I accept, but RM are the most overrated team in years. What in the f*ck have they done to get all this praise from people recently?

Overrated as hell.

Madrid fans are good at hyping them at. They still havent proven anything. they past to the round of 16 for the first time in 7 years. spurs and lyon were nothing. even though they beat lyon for the first time in 8 attempts in like the last 5 years. wtf is that. their record against lyon is so poor. they're not even the best in france anymore. they finally beat them after spedning 500 million and getting the best tactician in the world. Their win against milan was off two lucky goals. The wall wasnt set up properly and ozils goal was big deflection. milan beat them at their stadium 3-2 anyway the previous year. In previous years they lost against bayern, liverpool (absolutely flogged), and juventus. i really cant remember the last time when they convincingly beat a big european team. oh and barca continues to rape them.

it doesnt seem obvious. in the football world it seems as if madrid have been dominating for the past few years.
So we were in a rough patch, dosent that apply to every club?

you still are in a rough patch

true true

by Lord Spencer Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:10 am

dnmac4 wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:
che wrote:
Devil-Is-Red wrote:

It's really annoying the way you always suck up to Barca.

so man utd didn't get completely obliterated in both cl finals they played against barcelona?

mkay...

2-1 and 2-0 do not equate to complete obliteration mate. And don't come to me with possession statistics because empty possession does not mean a thing. I am not a fan of both teams, and not a fan of Madrid so don't think I am talking to defend anyone. It just annoys me when someone over exaggerates. It means people actually listen to our rubbish selling media.

UM, it was 3-1, and 2-0. Pretty surprised everyone let you get away with that. So if the score statistic doesn't count, and possession statistic doesn't count, according to you the fact that the media called it a drubbing doesn't count, then please inform us what does count because i'm pretty sure we can pull that stat and it will tell you Barca dominated both finals. I mean, did you not watch the games???? No offense Man U fans, I love you.

I felt something was wrong but was too lazy to search Embarassed

Still, a difference of a 2 goals is not exactly obliteration.

And yes I watched the game, and if you think you dominated as much as the media wants you to believe, then your being biased.

First game:
Barca MU
Goals: 2 0
Poss: 51 49
Shots: 11 ( Cool

12(2) With MU hitting the post once (post shots do not count as on target)
C. Kicks: 4 7

From stats alone, you see it is a pretty even match. But I watched the game, and it was not an even match, Barca were superior, but as superior as the media and Che wants you to believe.

Second Game:

This match was a complete Barca dominance. But again, the media over exaggerates. Many of Barca's shots were not dangerous, and they took half of their real Chances.

Goals: 3-1
Poss: 63-37
Shots: 19(12)-4(1)
C. Kicks: 6-0

The stats show a complete dominance by Barca, but the match was close until the 54th minute. Then Man United capitulated.

Again, I am not taking anything from Barca here, I am just asking for more level headed language when debating.

by teamanarchy Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:14 am

cyberman classic

by free_cat Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:29 am

Lord Spencer wrote:
dnmac4 wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:
che wrote:
Devil-Is-Red wrote:

It's really annoying the way you always suck up to Barca.

so man utd didn't get completely obliterated in both cl finals they played against barcelona?

mkay...

2-1 and 2-0 do not equate to complete obliteration mate. And don't come to me with possession statistics because empty possession does not mean a thing. I am not a fan of both teams, and not a fan of Madrid so don't think I am talking to defend anyone. It just annoys me when someone over exaggerates. It means people actually listen to our rubbish selling media.

UM, it was 3-1, and 2-0. Pretty surprised everyone let you get away with that. So if the score statistic doesn't count, and possession statistic doesn't count, according to you the fact that the media called it a drubbing doesn't count, then please inform us what does count because i'm pretty sure we can pull that stat and it will tell you Barca dominated both finals. I mean, did you not watch the games???? No offense Man U fans, I love you.

I felt something was wrong but was too lazy to search

Still, a difference of a 2 goals is not exactly obliteration.

And yes I watched the game, and if you think you dominated as much as the media wants you to believe, then your being biased.

First game:
Barca MU
Goals: 2 0
Poss: 51 49
Shots: 11 ( 12(2) With MU hitting the post once (post shots do not count as on target)
C. Kicks: 4 7

From stats alone, you see it is a pretty even match. But I watched the game, and it was not an even match, Barca were superior, but as superior as the media and Che wants you to believe.

Second Game:

This match was a complete Barca dominance. But again, the media over exaggerates. Many of Barca's shots were not dangerous, and they took half of their real Chances.

Goals: 3-1
Poss: 63-37
Shots: 19(12)-4(1)
C. Kicks: 6-0

The stats show a complete dominance by Barca, but the match was close until the 54th minute. Then Man United capitulated.

Again, I am not taking anything from Barca here, I am just asking for more level headed language when debating.

In the end, both matches where dominated by Barça, especially the second one, by quite a difference. Something rarely seen in a CL final.

by Lord Spencer Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:07 am

Milan Dominated the 2005 CL final but ended up losing to the clinical Liverpool team.

I conceded that the first match was a Barca show, but the first match was far from that. Would really take much from your Barca ego to give your opponent credit.

by free_cat Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:22 am

Lord Spencer wrote:Milan Dominated the 2005 CL final but ended up losing to the clinical Liverpool team.

I conceded that the first match was a Barca show, but the first match was far from that. Would really take much from your Barca ego to give your opponent credit.

The 2009 final was more even than the 2011. But it was dominated by Barça all the way. Man U had 2 clear chances, while Barça had at least 4 one on ones and we hit the post. Man U didn't hit any post in that final, you are making it up.

The second final was a show IMO.

An Milan didn't dominate 2005 CL final, they dominated the first half, but were overun the second half.

by kiranr Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:27 am

Why are you discrediting him by talking about his Barca ego etc? SAF also talked about being dominated. Does he have Barca ego too?

I am sure everyone here gives credit to Manchester United for being in the final and being the strong team that they are. In any case, aren't we talking about league competitiveness in this thread?

Barcelona have won 3 CLs in the last 6 years and the in the last three years they have been so strong that people are calling the side one of the best ever. Madrid has been keeping up with Barcelona to some extent in the league. This is one of the primary reasons for the huge gap between the 2nd and 3rd places.

But there are talks about redistributing tv money in a slightly fair manner which should make the other teams stronger. Barcelona's dominance is going to end sooner or later (hope it is later) and you will see a competitiveness improving at that stage.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:12 pm

Lord Spencer wrote:
dnmac4 wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:
che wrote:
Devil-Is-Red wrote:

It's really annoying the way you always suck up to Barca.

so man utd didn't get completely obliterated in both cl finals they played against barcelona?

mkay...

2-1 and 2-0 do not equate to complete obliteration mate. And don't come to me with possession statistics because empty possession does not mean a thing. I am not a fan of both teams, and not a fan of Madrid so don't think I am talking to defend anyone. It just annoys me when someone over exaggerates. It means people actually listen to our rubbish selling media.

UM, it was 3-1, and 2-0. Pretty surprised everyone let you get away with that. So if the score statistic doesn't count, and possession statistic doesn't count, according to you the fact that the media called it a drubbing doesn't count, then please inform us what does count because i'm pretty sure we can pull that stat and it will tell you Barca dominated both finals. I mean, did you not watch the games???? No offense Man U fans, I love you.

I felt something was wrong but was too lazy to search

Still, a difference of a 2 goals is not exactly obliteration.

And yes I watched the game, and if you think you dominated as much as the media wants you to believe, then your being biased.

First game:
Barca MU
Goals: 2 0
Poss: 51 49
Shots: 11 ( 12(2) With MU hitting the post once (post shots do not count as on target)
C. Kicks: 4 7

From stats alone, you see it is a pretty even match. But I watched the game, and it was not an even match, Barca were superior, but as superior as the media and Che wants you to believe.

Second Game:

This match was a complete Barca dominance. But again, the media over exaggerates. Many of Barca's shots were not dangerous, and they took half of their real Chances.

Goals: 3-1
Poss: 63-37
Shots: 19(12)-4(1)
C. Kicks: 6-0

The stats show a complete dominance by Barca, but the match was close until the 54th minute. Then Man United capitulated.

Again, I am not taking anything from Barca here, I am just asking for more level headed language when debating.

C'mon mate they were dominated if anything they were lucky it was'nt more than 3-1. Ok it was 2-1 until the 54th minute but that was only because of good goalkeeping and poor finishing.

Man Utd had one chance the whole game, that game was the definition of full on domination.

As for the match in Rome, Man Utd were over Barca like a bad rash in the first 10 mins but did'nt really trouble Valdes after that it was all Barca.

I cant believe iam even discussing this tbh.

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