Karim Benzema - BIG Ballon d'Or 2022 campaign

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Post by titosantill Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:07 pm

i don't think there's any other option besides Kane, that's basically the hole we've dug ourselves into. i have no issues with kane but until signing and performances, the club will be thinking they messed up as last year he wasn't their first nor second choice. the money you were saving you end up using to sign someone who wasnt your first nor second choice. i think he's a good player especially considering the club he plays for.

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Post by sportsczy Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:07 pm

Absolutely not.  In his prime, Karim shits all over Kane in his prime.   It's not even a contest.

Why? Kane is a 9 and 9 1/2 but who needs to play centrally. Karim does that but also plays on the wings, is a better dribbler, better technique, better in the air and just... better in everything except poaching and shot power.

You can't even compare the two. Karim absolutely is a generational talent. Kane is not.
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Post by El Gunner Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:34 pm

sportsczy wrote:Absolutely not.  In his prime, Karim shits all over Kane in his prime.   It's not even a contest.

Why? Kane is a 9 and 9 1/2 but who needs to play centrally. Karim does that but also plays on the wings, is a better dribbler, better technique, better in the air and just... better in everything except poaching and shot power.

You can't even compare the two. Karim absolutely is a generational talent. Kane is not.

again... laughable

titosantill wrote:i don't think there's any other option besides Kane, that's basically the hole we've dug ourselves into. i have no issues with kane but until signing and performances, the club will be thinking they messed up as last year he wasn't their first nor second choice. the money you were saving you end up using to sign someone who wasnt your first nor second choice. i think he's a good player especially considering the club he plays for.

you get it...

but also what is this hole you've dug yourself into? typical Madrid fan overreaction imo. You have lots of great young talent in many positions in your team, and ceaseless treasure chest of spending power... you will be more than fine even if you don't get Kane.

Before you know it, you will forget about Benzema just as quickly as you forgot about Raul.

As i said, you don't necessarily need to replace Benzema because it's not like Messi leaving Barca, or Klose aging out for Germany. Is it law that you need to have a playmaking 9? You can easily make it work with a run and bang 9 that scores enough goals as long as Bellingham and maybe someone else/someone new in the midfield takes on playmaking responsibility. Or you can invest in fullbacks who create. Or you can get a Firmino type striker and hope Vinicius and Rodrygo's goal activity skyrocket. There are many options.
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Post by Casciavit Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:37 pm

Kane has a better final pass and the only ones who deny that are people who don’t watch him.
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Post by Myesyats Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:47 pm

sportsczy wrote:Absolutely not.  In his prime, Karim shits all over Kane in his prime.   It's not even a contest.

Why?  Kane is a 9 and 9 1/2 but who needs to play centrally.  Karim does that but also plays on the wings, is a better dribbler, better technique, better in the air and just... better in everything except poaching and shot power.  

You can't even compare the two.  Karim absolutely is a generational talent.  Kane is not.

Absolutely agree.

Kane got that mule league tax carrying him though, which is why you'll see some premfaces twerking/rallying for him


This is Bale all over again
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Post by Casciavit Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:53 pm

Kane doesn’t drift to the wings as much and doesn’t involve himself in as many 1-2 combinations as Benzema.

I think he’s talented enough to engage in those combinations if asked though. If he doesn’t have the capacity to do so, then he’ll stay more central and Vinicus/Rodrygo will focus more on being outlets.

Imagine them at the end of these passes on the wing or Jude breaking through the middle:



Fun stuff.
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Post by sportsczy Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:00 pm

No... Benzema's final pass is insane.  You do realize he is, by far, the top assist man in Real Madrid history.  And I mean by a mile.

He is also #3 in La Liga history only behind Messi and Xavi.

So I would say only people who don't watch Benzema regularly would say that he isn't the best elite passing 9 in the history of modern football, let alone this era. Although I will say that the role of a 9 only evolved after R9. So true apples to apples is the last 25 years.
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Post by futbol_bill Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:54 pm

El Gunner wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Absolutely not.  In his prime, Karim shits all over Kane in his prime.   It's not even a contest.

Why?  Kane is a 9 and 9 1/2 but who needs to play centrally.  Karim does that but also plays on the wings, is a better dribbler, better technique, better in the air and just... better in everything except poaching and shot power.  

You can't even compare the two.  Karim absolutely is a generational talent.  Kane is not.

again... laughable

titosantill wrote:i don't think there's any other option besides Kane, that's basically the hole we've dug ourselves into. i have no issues with kane but until signing and performances, the club will be thinking they messed up as last year he wasn't their first nor second choice. the money you were saving you end up using to sign someone who wasnt your first nor second choice. i think he's a good player especially considering the club he plays for.

you get it...

but also what is this hole you've dug yourself into? typical Madrid fan overreaction imo. You have lots of great young talent in many positions in your team, and ceaseless treasure chest of spending power... you will be more than fine even if you don't get Kane.

Before you know it, you will forget about Benzema just as quickly as you forgot about Raul.

As i said, you don't necessarily need to replace Benzema because it's not like Messi leaving Barca, or Klose aging out for Germany. Is it law that you need to have a playmaking 9? You can easily make it work with a run and bang 9 that scores enough goals as long as Bellingham and maybe someone else/someone new in the midfield takes on playmaking responsibility. Or you can invest in fullbacks who create. Or you can get a Firmino type striker and hope Vinicius and Rodrygo's goal activity skyrocket. There are many options.


Exactly. There are a lot who think you must replace player  x with a clone. They said that about CRonaldo and about Modric and now Benzema. We need to basically change our forward line. The only piece that is set is Vinicius and he is still developing / maturing. We need a 9 period not necessarily a Benz replacement. But we also need a proper RW. Asensio wasn’t it, nor Valverde nor Rodrygo for that matter. And speaking of the latter, who knows where he should play. He plays best at LW, which would mean a sub to Vinicius and a false 9, which doesn’t exist at Madrid. My point being, whether or not it is Kane or not highly depends on who they get to play RW. Then they can talk about style and formation! My own view is we would be better off getting Julian Alvarez from City. He has the makings of a solid 9, is young and probably available as he won’t get a lot of action with Haaland there. That plus the possibility of Firmino and Joselu available as backup. Imagine going from one injury prone aging star CF with no backup other than Rodrygo or  Asensio as False 9 to have 3 legit CFs available!
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Post by Casciavit Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:20 pm

sportsczy wrote:No... Benzema's final pass is insane.  You do realize he is, by far, the top assist man in Real Madrid history.  And I mean by a mile.

He is also #3 in La Liga history only behind Messi and Xavi.

So I would say only people who don't watch Benzema regularly would say that he isn't the best elite passing 9 in the history of modern football, let alone this era.  Although I will say that the role of a 9 only evolved after R9.  So true apples to apples is the last 25 years.


When I’m talking about final pass I’m talking mainly through balls. Kane’s better at unlocking a defense with those kind of balls than Benzema is. I’ve seen enough of both to come to that conclusion and don’t have any national biases to interfere with my assessment.

You posted a clip of Benzema’s best assists and out of those only 2 were the kind of pass I’m talking about. Most of them were link up passes, flicks, and low crosses.

Assist counts aren’t indicative of that quality. If that was the case Thomas Mueller is a better creator than Xavi and Pirlo.

You also can’t say Benzema didn’t have outlets to display that skill to the level that Kane did. He had Ronaldo/Bale and then Vinicius/Rodrygo.

I’m not even saying Benzema is bad at through balls, all I’m saying is I’ve never seen a #9 thread them the way Kane does. Messi did when he played false 9, but he wasn’t a classic striker.

Benzema’s football was much more centered around creating overloads and combining in tight areas than breaking defensive lines with through balls. Let’s not act differently.

His technical security is better than Kane’s but he doesn’t have a better through ball than him. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.
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Post by sportsczy Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:08 pm

You can't be the best all-time assist leader for Real Madrid and #3 in la liga history without being an insane creator.

Forget the highlights...  those had like 10 assists.  Watch him.  Without CR, he would create link up plays that involved 2-3 players and then either got the shot himself or created for his teammates.  With CR, he was more of a through ball player because of CR's runs.  Adapted to the teammates he had.

Again, Messi and Xavi are the only ones who assisted more in La Liga history.  Think of all the great creators with insane teams that he's beaten out.

The biggest thing you noticed when he was handed the keys to Real Madrid's attack...he controlled the pace of the attack.  He imposed it on both his teammates and the opponents with movement, passing, shooting and even heading (which he became great at).

Most complete forward I've seen and the best CF in France history.
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Post by sportsczy Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:16 pm

Saying Benzema is not a great creator is one of the more insane things i've seen written about him tbh... and I've seen a lot of over the years.

That's been one of the constants about him throughout his entire career... insane creativity, superb touch, and great technique to be exact.   The scoring prowess only truly shined once CR left and at Lyon.
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Post by Casciavit Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:25 pm

Where did I say Benzema isn’t a good creator? You’re making things up.

I said “Kane has a better final pass”

Then I clarified myself and was referring more to through balls.

Through balls aren’t the only form of chance creation. Benzema is a great creator.

But specifically talking about through balls, Kane is better at them than Benzema. No amount of trying to spin my words will change that.
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Post by Casciavit Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:45 pm

This overreaction is classic GL.

You can make the claim that x player is better than y player at a specific skill then they’d think you’re calling y player shit.

No it just means that x player is better than y player at ONE SPECIFIC SKILL.

Kane is the best striker in the world when it comes to threading a through ball. Which other #9 does it as consistently as him?

The real issue is that he’s English and he’s been stereotyped for lacking technique. So when you say he’s better than Benzema at a specific technical attribute it seems incomprehensible.

The reality is that for a striker I believe Kane is the best in the world at playing those type of passes. So saying that I think he’s better than Benzema with that specific attribute isn’t an insult to Benzema. It’s comparing the best in the world in his position for that attribute versus maybe someone who’s #2/3/4.
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Post by Vibe Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:47 am

I have to agree with Lasciavit, Kane's defense slashing passes are world class.

I haven't seen Benzema making those often. Kane makes them from wherever on the field, cuts through the entire defense and usually sets up a 1 vs 1.

Benz usually sets up from closer to the goal with a shorter pass.
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Post by Casciavit Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:29 am

Exactly. The stats back this up too.

Kane’s successful through ball count in 21/22: 22
Kane’s successful through ball count in 22/23: 20

Benzema’s successful through ball count in 21/22: 6
Benzema’s successful through ball count in 22/23: 9 (his highest ever)

For additional perspective:
KDB’s successful through ball count in 21/22: 20
KDB’s successful through ball count in 22/23: 28

When it comes to through balls Kane is in the bracket right after the Messi/Neymar/KDB bracket.
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Post by BarcaLearning Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:34 am

Sorry off topic a bit but what was the conclusion of him in that blackmailing case. Think Sport explained but still cant exactly remember, so did he help black mail him or not? Razz That whole thing meant he wasnt in the French team all them yrs was a shame really...
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Post by El Gunner Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:49 am

Casciavit wrote:Exactly. The stats back this up too.

Kane’s successful through ball count in 21/22: 22
Kane’s successful through ball count in 22/23: 20

Benzema’s successful through ball count in 21/22: 6
Benzema’s successful through ball count in 22/23: 9 (his highest ever)

For additional perspective:
KDB’s successful through ball count in 21/22: 20
KDB’s successful through ball count in 22/23: 28

When it comes to through balls Kane is in the bracket right after the Messi/Neymar/KDB bracket.

put some respek on Bruno the dog :coffee:

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_through_ball
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Post by jibers Mon Jun 05, 2023 12:15 pm

sportsczy wrote:You can't be the best all-time assist leader for Real Madrid and #3 in la liga history without being an insane creator.

Forget the highlights...  those had like 10 assists.  Watch him.  Without CR, he would create link up plays that involved 2-3 players and then either got the shot himself or created for his teammates.  With CR, he was more of a through ball player because of CR's runs.  Adapted to the teammates he had.

Again, Messi and Xavi are the only ones who assisted more in La Liga history.  Think of all the great creators with insane teams that he's beaten out.

The biggest thing you noticed when he was handed the keys to Real Madrid's attack...he controlled the pace of the attack.  He imposed it on both his teammates and the opponents with movement, passing, shooting and even heading (which he became great at).

Most complete forward I've seen and the best CF in France history.


This means absolutely nothing. Ronaldo has the highest or second highest assist in the cl. No one in their right mind will say he is the greatest creator. The chances Benzema were creating were not mostly through balls.

Literally go and see the stats for TB . It's obvious to anyone with two eyes that Kane is a better final ball player. Benzema has better technique and ball control and is also better at linking with teammates and keeping the ball. Kane is better in the air, better finisher.

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Post by sportsczy Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:14 pm

Nope.  Neither they eye test nor the data support any of what you guys are saying... unless you have recency bias.  Just go find a football analytics site and actually look things up to get hard data; but also watch Benzema in the previous 4 years.

It's almost offensive to compare him to Harry Kane.  Only comparables are Lewandowski and Suarez of a few years ago.  That's it.  Those are the only two 9s in the same stratosphere.  You can make an argument for any of these 3 (Benzema, Suarez and Lewa) as the best 9 of their generation.   That's the end of it.
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Post by El Gunner Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:02 pm

please, Benzema can't touch prime Suarez... Suarez is a top 5 player of the 2000s
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Post by Clutch Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:19 pm

sportsczy wrote:Nope.  Neither they eye test nor the data support any of what you guys are saying... unless you have recency bias.  Just go find a football analytics site and actually look things up to get hard data; but also watch Benzema in the previous 4 years.

It's almost offensive to compare him to Harry Kane.  Only comparables are Lewandowski and Suarez of a few years ago.  That's it.  Those are the only two 9s in the same stratosphere.  You can make an argument for any of these 3 (Benzema, Suarez and Lewa) as the best 9 of their generation.   That's the end of it.
they're not saying kanes better. Just has a better final ball.

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Post by Clutch Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:19 pm

El Gunner wrote:please, Benzema can't touch prime Suarez... Suarez is a top 5 player of the 2000s
top 5 is crazy

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Post by El Gunner Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:19 am

1. Messi



2. Iniesta
3. Henry
4. CR7
5. Suarez
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Post by Clutch Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:34 pm

El Gunner wrote:1. Messi



2. Iniesta
3. Henry
4. CR7
5. Suarez


I'd put xavi, kaka, benzema, pirlo, modric over suarez just to name a few

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Post by El Gunner Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:08 am

2013 - 2018 Suarez is the best out and out #9 since Brazilian Ronaldo, the guy could do everything! The skill level, the technique, the goals he scored - left foot, right foot, headers - for his size... oh my god, it bordered on otherworldly.
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Post by Valkyrja Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:22 am

"Laughable", again   rofl
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