USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread

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Post by rincon on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:58 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Thanks Rincon. It looks like the Danish chart is looking at all expenses and not just discretionary ones though, that's what I meant by the comparison being off.

Also to be completely fair, Denmark is a NATO country which means that it is effectively piggybacking off the US military expense. If the US were to drastically cut back on military spending as Freeza suggests and NATO wanted to keep the same level of military might it currently has, the other countries would have to spend significantly more than they do today.

As defacto leaders of the west, the US benefits a lot from it's military presence, and we benefit from NATO. I'm 100% a proponent of this.

That said, my issue (looking at it as I were from there) would not be that the US has the largest military spending in the world, but the fact that military expense are ~14% of the budget while education is ~2%.

There is a lot of gray area between "de-fund the whole military" and "spend 7-8 times more on the military than on education". For example.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:06 pm

Just for context, education spending usually happens at the local and state level in the US. I wouldn't say the US spend little on education, it just may not be taken into account by federal spending charts. It also makes for big variability between states and towns that prioritize it more than others.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:28 pm

http://useofforceproject.org/#review

Interesting chart comparing policing policies around in US cities

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Post by Thimmy on Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:59 am

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In demonstrations/George Floyd memorial/support for BLM outside of the royal castle in Stockholm, Swedish riot police resorted to using pepper spray and tear gas after the crowd got out of control, threw rocks and glass bottles at the officers.

Two people have been arrested, on suspicion of stirring up violence in the protest that included a few thousand people. The police are working on splitting up the participants in the demonstration, as it goes against the «more than 50 people in a crowd» policy.

The organizer of the demonstration was given the green light by the police, but he later contacted the police himself, when thousands more than the original 50 people showed up, and the situation escalated out of control. A similar demonstration occurred in Paris on tuesday night.

Aftonbladet reports that many chose to go against the police’s recommendations, quoting demonstrants that were shouting «we don’t give a shit, we’ll have our demonstration, anyway».


I don’t know how legitimate this is, but it’s an interesting read.

 USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread - Page 16 Floyed11

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Post by Adit on Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:25 am

First of all GDP per capita is a blanket assessment.

When you compare a country like Denmark which has literally no military history , conflicts with neighbours and doesn't have the capacity even in long term to dictate geopolitical ambitions to US which literally controls the sea routes to its advantage it doesn't make sense.

US despite its high population is this rich just because they are able to control the sea routes. They wouldn't be this rich with out the petrol dollar deal and petrol dollar deal is only possible because of the military strength.

Second is the reason I have been saying from beginning. It is impossible to employ all the men when the products can be scaled up with little increase in labour.

The population and job creation growth isn't linear.

Hence large population countries like China, India and US are FORCED to take a lot of testosterone filled men who otherwise will riot into their armies bloating the arms budget again .

Denmark with its low population probably have to beg citizens to join military while in US military is a means of survival for many.

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Post by LeVersacci on Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:41 am

@Thimmy How is that FB post related to the ex officer killing him? So because he may or may not done something that was wrong doesn’t excuse the broad daylight execution, and its aftermath.


His “supposedly” criminal background that this wonderful sheltered swedish white girl dig up doesn’t excuse Chauvins killing.

We have a court room for things like this. So yes the protest and everything else is warranted.

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Post by Myesyats on Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:06 am

What do you want from me lol. I'm in favor of the protests

But I'm not a fan of this because these people have nothing to do with it: https://streamable.com/733reu

That is very counter productive.

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Post by El Gunner on Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:31 am

@Timothy sounds a bit weird that that only comes out now and by a Swedish girl???? wouldn't the US police already have released that info?

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Post by rincon on Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:39 am

Its irrelevant. He wasnt killed for a crime he may have committed in the past, he killed to police brutality and racism.

For crimes there is a justice system, and it doesnt include officers murdering (would be) suspects.
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Post by Harmonica on Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:02 am

@rincon wrote:Its irrelevant. He wasnt killed for a crime he may have committed in the past, he killed to police brutality and racism.

For crimes there is a justice system, and it doesnt include officers murdering (would be) suspects.
Fixed, racism isn't shown in the video.

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Post by Thimmy on Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:45 am

@LeVersacci wrote:@Thimmy How is that FB post related to the ex officer killing him? So because he may or may not done something that was wrong doesn’t excuse the broad daylight execution, and its aftermath.

Floyds death was the final nail in the coffin for the current outrage.

His “supposedly” criminal background that this wonderful sheltered swedish white girl dig up doesn’t excuse Chauvins killing.

We have a court room for things like this. So yes the protest and everything else is warranted.


I just posted what I found. I’m of course not saying it excuses or changes anything at all. I thought it was an interesting read, because some of those crimes are pretty bad. A stark contrast to the «innocent and brave» description I heard recently. It might be forged, for all I know.

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Post by farfan on Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:56 am

@Thimmy wrote: USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread - Page 16 2a6d9310

In demonstrations/George Floyd memorial/support for BLM outside of the royal castle in Stockholm, Swedish riot police resorted to using pepper spray and tear gas after the crowd got out of control, threw rocks and glass bottles at the officers.

Two people have been arrested, on suspicion of stirring up violence in the protest that included a few thousand people. The police are working on splitting up the participants in the demonstration, as it goes against the «more than 50 people in a crowd» policy.

The organizer of the demonstration was given the green light by the police, but he later contacted the police himself, when thousands more than the original 50 people showed up, and the situation escalated out of control. A similar demonstration occurred in Paris on tuesday night.

Aftonbladet reports that many chose to go against the police’s recommendations, quoting demonstrants that were shouting «we don’t give a shit, we’ll have our demonstration, anyway».


I don’t know how legitimate this is, but it’s an interesting read.

 USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread - Page 16 Floyed11


I'm still not sure what these protests and riots outside of the US are supposed to accomplish. American protesters are trying to pressure their government into making legislative changes and demilitarizing their national police. What are non-American protesters trying to do?

There are plenty of African-American causes and charities that you can support from an ocean away. Clashing with your local police over an incident that took place in a foreign country is just pissing in the wind at this point.
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Post by Thimmy on Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:02 am

Don’t be surprised. We’ve got teenage feminists using US statistics as benchmarks for their protests or social media campaigns here. Some people just want to be part of a big and unified cause. Doesn’t matter whether or not it applies to them.

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Post by Warrior on Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:02 am

George Floyd is just a front name because he's the last of a long list. His flaws don't matter anymore because he is dead. What matters is the circumstance of his death, due to police brutality and may i say torture. 1st problem

And then you have Ahmaud Arbery hunted by white supremacists while jogging. 2nd problem

In fact this movement is a double fight, but the 3rd problem (looting) is more of an immediate threat to public order so the focus is on that.

Any official solutions were proposed to solve problems 1 and 2 i mentionned ? I have seen zero, only PR moves. Hard to not be cynical about society

Racism will improve naturally once new generations more comfortable with multiculturalism hold positions of power. The current protest will change nothing imo. But it's necessary for black people to vocalize their anger, at some point you have enough, it's normal. If there was no looting nobody with an ounce of brain would complain.
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Post by Thimmy on Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:04 am

@Warrior wrote:George Floyd is just a front name because he's the last of a long list. His flaws don't matter anymore because he is dead. What matters is the circumstance of his death, due to police brutality and may i say torture. 1st problem


This much is obvious. I don’t know why people assume that I was suggesting otherwise. I posted it because it’s related to the topic. I don’t want to get involved in the broader discussion.

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Post by farfan on Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:11 am

@Thimmy wrote:Don’t be surprised. We’ve got teenage feminists using US statistics as benchmarks for their protests or social media campaigns here. Some people just want to be part of a big and unified cause. Doesn’t matter whether or not it applies to them.


It's a fascinating phenomenon. Young people in the west are so immersed in American culture that they start acting as if they live in the US.

Some people I know will tell you everything there is to know about Nancy Pelosi, the DNC, Senate bills etc... but struggle to name ministers of their own country.
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Post by Warrior on Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:17 am

Me i know why people assume you are suggesting otherwise. Because of that article by swedish girl you posted. But you deny it 2-3 times, not a problem anymore

My own post had a more general aim, as a summary of my thoughts on the subject
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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:29 am

@farfan wrote:
@Thimmy wrote:Don’t be surprised. We’ve got teenage feminists using US statistics as benchmarks for their protests or social media campaigns here. Some people just want to be part of a big and unified cause. Doesn’t matter whether or not it applies to them.


It's a fascinating phenomenon. Young people in the west are so immersed in American culture that they start acting as if they live in the US.

Some people I know will tell you everything there is to know about Nancy Pelosi, the DNC, Senate bills etc... but struggle to name ministers of their own country.  

It's understandable though. If I can somehow make you watch my movies, my talk shows, listen to my music, play my video games and make my language a universal one, you're bound to become Americanized in a way. Not to mention that the world always follows the most powerful country more than any other for obvious reasons.

It's a clever way for the US to invade other countries without physically invading them.

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Post by LeVersacci on Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:33 am

@Thimmy wrote:
@Warrior wrote:George Floyd is just a front name because he's the last of a long list. His flaws don't matter anymore because he is dead. What matters is the circumstance of his death, due to police brutality and may i say torture. 1st problem


This much is obvious. I don’t know why people assume that I was suggesting otherwise. I posted it because it’s related to the topic. I don’t want to get involved in the broader discussion.
My post might looked like I was coming at you which it wasn't. It was only about the FB post that triggered me. All good.

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Post by Warrior on Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:45 am

Protests outside of the USA, i don't think it's due to americanisation of the world.

Seems more like they take the occasion to speak loud against racism, while it's all over the news.

At first it was much less about police brutality but then cops are being brutal with protestants, it's quite ironic Laughing
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Post by farfan on Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:59 am

@Warrior wrote:Protests outside of the USA, i don't think it's due to americanisation of the world.

Seems more like they take the occasion to speak loud against racism, while it's all over the news.



Racism exists in much more brutal forms across the world. Yet only incidents that occur in the US seem to be capable of generating this level of international outrage.

Some Arab tribe leaders in Mauritania still own black slaves to this day, but you rarely hear about it because that part of the world and the people living in it simply don't matter to the rest of the world.
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Post by Warrior on Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:03 pm

As i read your post, i realize the reason why "it's all over the news" is americanisation of the world
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Post by El Gunner on Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:48 pm

What DoC said above.
I don't understand this rhetoric that it's weird other parts of the world are responding as well. It's pretty obvious borders are just in place for governmental control, but we're all still humans living in a interconnected global world.

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Post by farfan on Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:32 pm

@El Gunner wrote:What DoC said above.
I don't understand this rhetoric that it's weird other parts of the world are responding as well. It's pretty obvious borders are just in place for governmental control, but we're all still humans living in a interconnected global world.


I mean it's not "weird" per se, it's just a testament to America's influence over the world.

It's the reason why the whole world knows who Eric Garner is and no one outside France knows Lamine Dieng.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mort_de_Lamine_Dieng

Not even a single translated version for one of the biggest scandals in French police history.
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Post by Myesyats on Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:03 pm

@farfan wrote:
@Thimmy wrote:Don’t be surprised. We’ve got teenage feminists using US statistics as benchmarks for their protests or social media campaigns here. Some people just want to be part of a big and unified cause. Doesn’t matter whether or not it applies to them.


It's a fascinating phenomenon. Young people in the west are so immersed in American culture that they start acting as if they live in the US.

Some people I know will tell you everything there is to know about Nancy Pelosi, the DNC, Senate bills etc... but struggle to name ministers of their own country.

Even in Poland someone spray painted BLM on the american embassy lmao

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:12 pm

@farfan wrote:
@Thimmy wrote:Don’t be surprised. We’ve got teenage feminists using US statistics as benchmarks for their protests or social media campaigns here. Some people just want to be part of a big and unified cause. Doesn’t matter whether or not it applies to them.


It's a fascinating phenomenon. Young people in the west are so immersed in American culture that they start acting as if they live in the US.

Some people I know will tell you everything there is to know about Nancy Pelosi, the DNC, Senate bills etc... but struggle to name ministers of their own country.  

In Argentina we have a case of a death by police brutality right now, and the media is only speaking about George Floyd Rolling Eyes Fwiw there haven't been any demonstrations like in some other countries, but it is odd how one is shoved under the table and the other given prime time, even if it is newsworthy that the US is on fire.

There's also this case of the police being caught literally shooting someone in the back and I haven't seen it reported on any media

https://www.reddit.com/r/argentina/comments/gvlkrd/la_polic%C3%ADa_de_capitanich_disparando_por_la_espalda/

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