USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread

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Post by Babun on Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:55 am


The complete uncensored, uncut version. The dude was breaking the curfew but left alone. He started filming an arrest and jamming the traffic. The rest is in the video. Of course, the force used was waaaay excessive so they were rightfuly fired.

I just hate and am tired of the social media manipulation bullshit where the info is cut and presented in a way it supports their own agenda. In this case, no cutting was needed anyways.

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Post by Adit on Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:23 am

US police atrocities on their on citizen and especially on black people are baffling in a supposedly freedom loving country.

The police system works entirely against what U.S stands for.

I support the protests.

How ever i have no idea how looting private properties which itself is a grave issue is the answer to any justice.

Cutting nose to spite the face huh?

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Post by Adit on Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:44 am

@Freeza wrote:Social mobility is much easier in Europe. Stop that myth that it’s a thing unique for America. It’s such a fucking dumb nationalist talking point that has been fed to Americans since they could think.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-of-82-countries/

Denmark is ranked 1st, which is no surprise. Followed by the other Nordic countries. USA is 27th. A terrible placement for an economy that big.

We basically have the cheat sheet on how to build a country but no one wants to have a well-run country.


No.

Easier for low population countries to attain good quality of living for everyone. Low population means high wages even for low quality jobs.

It is the high population countries that have labour surplus that have a hard time in ensuring employment for all.

US being 27th is actually pretty good considering none of 100+ million countries come anywhere near.

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Post by Adit on Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:46 am

Fully stand by sportzy that if you or government can't protect his private property from looters then you have absolutely no right to talk about the defensive measures he is going to take to protect them.


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Post by Adit on Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:51 am

@Freeza

Denmark or most of the Nordic models are not imitable due to various issues.

Denmark is not multi cultural .

Doesn't have to deal with religious riots.
Doesn't have to deal with racial issues.
Doesn't have the population of some of the Indian cities ffs.
Denmark has low pop density, high resource per capita.
Any job will ensure good wage due to labour shortage.

Denmark model is at best for a city not a country.


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Post by Freeza on Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:11 am

@Adit wrote:@Freeza

Denmark or most of the Nordic models are not imitable due to various issues.

Denmark is not multi cultural .

Doesn't have to deal with religious riots.
Doesn't have to deal with racial issues.
Doesn't have the population of some of the Indian cities ffs.
Denmark has low pop density, high resource per capita.
Any job will ensure good wage due to labour shortage.

Denmark model is at best for a city not a country.



First of all. Our population density isn’t low. We’re above average. And I don’t see how that is relevant given the US being one of the least densely populated, western countries.

And you still need to provide some sources as to where population makes it impossible for any of this to work.

It’s so often the argument against the US not being able to enhance the lives of the less fortunate, but the economy actually works. If you’re able to fund the military and police like this you’re sure as all hell able to pay for education for your citizens.

So tell me where the actual evidence of population keeping US from becoming an equal country is?
They don’t have an overpopulation issue, hell most states are run like small countries.


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Post by Adit on Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:12 am

I also don't get the hypocrisy about "small businesses".

So it is morally ok to loot big businesses?

Which ironically provides more employment and lowers cost for consumers.

I read in this thread that the lady that was beaten up was not CEO of Goldman Sachs ... Implying that it is okay to beat up rich people.

I don't get you guys at all.

If poor can beat up rich then poor countries can attack most of you GL peoples countries and you wouldn't see any wrong in that.

But until shit hits the fan long live riots.

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Post by Adit on Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:18 am

@Freeza wrote:
@Adit wrote:@Freeza

Denmark or most of the Nordic models are not imitable due to various issues.

Denmark is not multi cultural .

Doesn't have to deal with religious riots.
Doesn't have to deal with racial issues.
Doesn't have the population of some of the Indian cities ffs.
Denmark has low pop density, high resource per capita.
Any job will ensure good wage due to labour shortage.

Denmark model is at best for a city not a country.



First of all. Our population density isn’t low. We’re above average. And I don’t see how that is relevant given the US being one of the least densely populated, western countries.

And you still need to provide some sources as to where population makes it impossible for any of this to work.

It’s so often the argument against the US not being able to enhance the lives of the less fortunate, but the economy actually works. If you’re able to fund the military and police like this you’re sure as all hell able to pay for education for your citizens.

So tell me where the actual evidence of population keeping US from becoming an equal country is?
They don’t have an overpopulation6 issue, hell most states are run like small countries.




Low population means high wage as evident from Denmark.

Most of the products and services can be scaled up with little increase in labour force which gives you 1000 people able to produce entire product needed for a 100 million population.

This is why it is harder for high population countries to generate employment.

Is there a better country than US with high population in your list? China, India,Indonesia, Brazil, Pakistan, Nigeria?


Your model is applicable to at best a Indian city not to a country.

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Post by FennecFox7 on Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:26 am

To be clear, I 100% support the protests. It’s a protected right to protest and I do think minorities, especially blacks get targeted by cops.

I’m just not on board with looting Louie V and RSL stores. That doesn’t sit well with me.

My country has gone through violence for hundreds of years. Go look up the bloody history of Algeria. And we STILL have a dictatorial regime controlled by France.

Non violence is 100% the answer.

Also agree with Adit. Sports is just ready to defend himself. He’s not a gun zealot lol. He’s doing what all of us SHOULD look at guns as; self defense as a last resort.
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Post by Warrior on Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:31 am

Molenation

 USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread - Page 15 Fc1ab110
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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:33 am

@Adit wrote:
I read in this thread that the lady that was beaten up was not CEO of Goldman Sachs ... Implying that it is okay to beat up rich people.

No mate, you're putting words in my mouth. Out of all the posters here, you actually picked the one poster who opposes looting and violence the most.

I said that because some people were claiming that it's okay to loot from big businesses and the looters were only taking back what's rightfully theirs. So I said that to remind them that the lady being beat up is not the CEO of Goldman Sachs. It's just a way to show that their argument has too many holes in it.

So no. It's not okay to beat up rich people. It's not okay to loot people. And it's not okay to kill people.

This should be pretty straightforward, but the world we're living is so shitty and violent that we have to say out loud what should be innately known by everybody.

Also, those looters are just opportunists and they don't represent or care about the cause being peacefully fought for by their countrymen.

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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:36 am

@Warrior wrote:Molenation

 USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread - Page 15 Fc1ab110

You actually made me laugh out loud. Thanks mate rofl

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Post by Freeza on Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:38 am

None of those are western countries.

Those countries have been looted by western countries so much that it’s almost impossible to compare so I don’t know why you insist.

The US and Denmark are much more comparable than other highly populated countries when it comes to economical problems.

Also where is the evidence about population being the reason for high wages and that you can’t give healthcare and education to your people?

These are numbers I could find about salary:

Denmark average annual income: $49.000
US average income: $48.600

No matter where I get numbers from they end up pretty evenly.

The difference between it all is simply that the salary in the US is Not equally distributed and tax dollars are not used for the facilities needed for social mobility.

I think you’re trying to hard to compare the US to where you’re coming from imo, which a whole different case. It’s India right? I seem to remember so or a country in that region. The damage done from the western world to those countries make it really hard to compare in a social mobility sense considering the caste system and it’s relation to the British Imperialists

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Post by LeVersacci on Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:07 am

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:
@Warrior wrote:Molenation

 USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread - Page 15 Fc1ab110

You actually made me laugh out loud. Thanks mate rofl
Urban trail riding club protesting today in Houston

Gondor calls for aid and we shall answer Molenation
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Post by Myesyats on Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:19 am

I believe Denmark's success mostly comes from their kindred society working in harmony and the incredible trust everyone has in the goverment that the tax euros/krones are distributed fairly. The US appears to be so divided that I can't imagine them working in such harmony at this point and the trust in those who are supposed to be leaders must and should be at all-time lows especially these days.

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Post by Adit on Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:24 pm

@Freeza wrote:None of those are western countries.

Those countries have been looted by western countries so much that it’s almost impossible to compare so I don’t know why you insist.

The US and Denmark are much more comparable than other highly populated countries when it comes to economical problems.

Also where is the evidence about population being the reason for high wages and that you can’t give healthcare and education to your people?

These are numbers I could find about salary:

Denmark average annual income: $49.000
US average income: $48.600

No matter where I get numbers from they end up pretty evenly.

The difference between it all is simply that the salary in the US is Not equally distributed and tax dollars are not used for the facilities needed for social mobility.

I think you’re trying to hard to compare the US to where you’re coming from imo, which a whole different case. It’s India right? I seem to remember so or a country in that region. The damage done from the western world to those countries make it really hard to compare in a social mobility sense considering the caste system and it’s relation to the British Imperialists


You want to talk economics by asking what is the evidence of resource distribution and population. Really?

Economics doesn't work on extrapolation . It is simply blasphemy to look at California economy and then expect entire US to become like Cali economy. Population matters so much.

Compare Denmark to low population countries like singapore not to big countries, it doesn't make sense.

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Post by Freeza on Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:45 pm

I'm comparing Denmark and US because both nations have similar recourses per capita. They juts allocate them differently.

There's nothing that suggests that American economy couldn't enforce the same policies a capitalistic society like Denmark enforces.

Let's see how each nation allocates their discretionary spending:

US:
 USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread - Page 15 Discretionary_spending_pie%2C_2015_enacted

Denmark:
 USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread - Page 15 Screen22

Here you can see the difference

Healthcare: US spends 6% of their budget on healthcare. Denmark spends 16% on healthcare.

Education: US spends 6% of their budget on education. Denmark spends 13% on education.

Military and police: US spends 54% on their military alone. That's obscene. Denmark spend 4%.

Social security: This is where the difference between our countries lie imo. Denmark spend 44% of that budget on social security instead of spending it all on the military. We pay for pensions, disabilities, unemployment etc. with those funds. Those funds are a big reason why during a pandemic (an example) we didn't crumble.

All I'm trying to say is that if the US spent half their military budget on protecting their people instead of murdering foreigners, then they could actually solve their issues. Because unlike many developing nations, US. actually have the funds to combat their problems.

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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:21 pm

@Freeza wrote:All I'm trying to say is that if the US spent half their military budget on protecting their people instead of murdering foreigners, then they could actually solve their issues.

Truer words were never spoken.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:25 pm

what's "discretionary spending"? that comparison looks off to me. Wiki has military spending at 12% (still too high imo)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending_in_the_United_States

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Post by rincon on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:41 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:what's "discretionary spending"? that comparison looks off to me. Wiki has military spending at 12% (still too high imo)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending_in_the_United_States

Discretionary spending is the budget (about a third of the total) that is spent after the necessities (mandatory spending) has been covered, as defined by the government.

So the US spends >50% of it's discretionary budget on military, which comes out to about 12-14% of the total budget. Making it the largest single expense.
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Post by Arquitecto on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:43 pm

Adit has always had a strong understanding of economics and he is right there they are completely incomparable, even if that isn't Freeza's core premise. I am assuming Freeza is commenting more on military budget to which I am far far less supportive of compared to before.

Yes military expenditure holds millions of jobs and gives to the economy in return but a lot of them just sit in bunkers. Who the in the right mind would fuck with the US by now? I believe in Nuclear Deterrence theory and wars are far less likely than now.

World War III is a myth.

But either way it provides their economy (and others) indirect benefits.

Bush spent a lot on it and I understand its reduced but not needed anymore.


And Carthage is 100% right again. Despite some of the ones who support anarchy here, this has NO purpose at all. It is opportunism and I am with full conviction the responsible leaders of the black community condemn this.


Last edited by Arquitecto on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Freeza on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:45 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:what's "discretionary spending"? that comparison looks off to me. Wiki has military spending at 12% (still too high imo)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending_in_the_United_States


Discretionary spending is what the government is free to allocate afaik. Non-mandatory, most of education and military is funded through that. Just shows the priority though. When you’re more focused on raging war than your own societal issues.

Found it hard to find both statistics from a comparable year. And should’ve included the wiki page you listed. The point still stands though. The priorities are out of whack if you are to spend that much on military while not giving your people good healthcare and education.

Also the educational system and healthcare system are just so illogical to me.

A big problem is how apparently there’s a constant election cycle for both leaders of school and police districts. This constant election cycle can also result in a huge bleeding of money compared to if it was left to career professional.


Last edited by Freeza on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:46 pm

Thanks Rincon. It looks like the Danish chart is looking at all expenses and not just discretionary ones though, that's what I meant by the comparison being off.

Also to be completely fair, Denmark is a NATO country which means that it is effectively piggybacking off the US military expense. If the US were to drastically cut back on military spending as Freeza suggests and NATO wanted to keep the same level of military might it currently has, the other countries would have to spend significantly more than they do today.

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Post by rincon on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:53 pm

@Adit you can't linearly extrapolate economic policy across large population differences, true. You also certainly can't more directly compare the US to Russia, India, China, Brazil, etc. There are huge socio-economical differences.

Saying that the population is too large so we can't follow the nordic model is a neglectful.

Sure the US can't be just like Denmark, but it can certainly learn from some of their policies.

Expenditures show priorities in the government, and the US budget clearly shows it is skewed towards a set of priorities that are working against the majority of their own people. There is a lot money there, it just isn't spent in ways that benefit their population accordingly, and the people take notice of this.

Most of their issues have solutions that are available by actually trying to solve them. Things like universal healthcare and better access to education shouldn't be seen as radical thoughts spoken by revolutionaries.

Systemic racism and police brutality definitely can be alleviated by again, actually trying. Make cops more accountable for their actions. Reduce tensions in society by treating people more fairly, at least from the government's side, and violence will decrease.

Putting away the success of the nordic model "because it's too different" isn't going to get anyone anywhere.
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Post by CBarca on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:56 pm

Social security and Medicare/Medicaid are both mandatory spending and are each about 4.9% of the GDP. Military spending, while the largest of "discretionary spending", is at 3.2% of GDP

The US spends way too much on the military, but I hope people aren't taking away that the US is funding the military more than SS or Medicare/Medicaid. Both of those are getting a little more than 150% of the total cost of the military EACH. Again, not making an argument about how much the US should spend. Just trying to clarify.

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Post by rincon on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:58 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Thanks Rincon. It looks like the Danish chart is looking at all expenses and not just discretionary ones though, that's what I meant by the comparison being off.

Also to be completely fair, Denmark is a NATO country which means that it is effectively piggybacking off the US military expense. If the US were to drastically cut back on military spending as Freeza suggests and NATO wanted to keep the same level of military might it currently has, the other countries would have to spend significantly more than they do today.

As defacto leaders of the west, the US benefits a lot from it's military presence, and we benefit from NATO. I'm 100% a proponent of this.

That said, my issue (looking at it as I were from there) would not be that the US has the largest military spending in the world, but the fact that military expense are ~14% of the budget while education is ~2%.

There is a lot of gray area between "de-fund the whole military" and "spend 7-8 times more on the military than on education". For example.
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