The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3

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Post by Warrior Thu May 14, 2020 6:05 am

You guys read anything definitive about how the virus is a threat for some people more than others ? I have not

Majority of people have no problems with covid. For some it affects the lungs, for others it gives a heart stroke or it creates blood clots. Also a strong immune response to the infection can fuck you up. Seems quite an agressive virus if you ask me, maybe a poster with better medical knowledge can sort that out.

Experts have a wide range of observations and conclusions, because of that, it's easier to build an opinion molded on personal interests. What makes the least sense "covid is 1/10 gravity" it's just collateral damage of a tunnel vision that puts individual liberty above everything else. Many trumpists in that lot Laughing

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Post by sportsczy Thu May 14, 2020 6:10 am

This may sound harsh... but if people are going to be insanely dumb and get themselves killed, let them. Better for humanity that they're not part of the gene pool.

One thing that Whole Food does (in NYC at least) is that from 8am-9am, only people aged 65 or up can go. Everything been sanitized overnight and it's the safest time to go. This allows my mom to go shopping in relative safety. The rest of the people can then go in at 9am.

Second, street fairs are open in Brooklyn (or at least, the McCarren Park one is on Saturdays). It's packed and has been so for a couple of weeks. Everyone wears masks. When waiting in line, people stay away from each other. If you don't, you get yelled at.

More and more coffee shops and restaurants have open windows that you can buy food/drinks from and either go sit on a bench, at a park or go home.

The subways are getting disinfected between 1-4am.

etc.

What I'm getting at is that you don't need to shut people in. It's not necessary. In fact, it's illegal.

I also have very little faith that politicians will find compromise in a matter of days. That's not a legal court's job anyway. They rule on matters of law. They can't delay when their decisions takes effect.
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Post by sportsczy Thu May 14, 2020 6:14 am

Warrior wrote:You guys read anything definitive about how the virus is a threat for some people more than others ? I have not

Majority of people have no problems with covid. For some it affects the lungs, for others it gives a heart stroke or it creates blood clots. Also a strong immune response to the infection can fuck you up. Seems quite an agressive virus if you ask me, maybe a poster with better medical knowledge can sort that out.

Experts have a wide range of observations and conclusions, because of that, it's easier to build an opinion molded on personal interests. What makes the least sense "covid is 1/10 gravity" it's just collateral damage of a tunnel vision that puts individual liberty above everything else. Many trumpists in that lot Laughing

In NYC, they've done antibody testing for 2 weeks now.  Voluntary and widely available.  It's free and tons of people are doing them... I'm scheduled for Friday.  So far, 20% of those tested have C19 antibodies.  That's 1.7 million people in NYC.  They're extrapolating the demographics of the people that have died from C19 against the demographics of people taking antibody tests...  that's where the 0.1-0.2% is coming from.  For the high-risk categories, the numbers are high...


Last edited by sportsczy on Thu May 14, 2020 6:16 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Warrior Thu May 14, 2020 6:14 am

- health issues caused by diseases
- health issues caused by oldness and bad life hygiene
- specific metabolism settings that makes the immune system react too strongly

1 out of 3 you are sick
2 out of 3 you are in trouble
3 out of 3 you are dead

It's what i notice so far
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Post by sportsczy Thu May 14, 2020 6:19 am

So you need to build you immune system up to not get C19... but if you get it, you need to suppress your immune system.  Diametrically different strategies needed.  That's why as soon as you show symptoms, you literally need to order Burger King lol.
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Post by El Gunner Thu May 14, 2020 9:29 am

Thimmy wrote:I like to think that I’m fit, healthy and relatively young as well, but I’ve read too many reports of people becoming very sick or even dying, due to underlying causes that they weren’t aware of - to assume that I’m undoubtedly in the safe zone. It seems to be rare for young people to die from this, but it certainly does happen.

I mean, evidently, you can be healthy enough to work out and play sports, and still carry diseases that put you at risk of being exposed to the Coronavirus. It’s a risk most young people are willing to bet on, but I don’t personally want to assume that I’m immune to this ilness that the world seems to know so little about.

as long as you stay fearful and believe all the bullshit you read you will be susceptible to it
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Post by iftikhar Thu May 14, 2020 9:56 am

Guys, serious question. Is Herd Immunity real??? Is there substantial scientific evidences supporting it!!!

Apparently it's our only option, so, what are our odds!!!
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Post by Thimmy Thu May 14, 2020 10:11 am

El Gunner wrote:
Thimmy wrote:I like to think that I’m fit, healthy and relatively young as well, but I’ve read too many reports of people becoming very sick or even dying, due to underlying causes that they weren’t aware of - to assume that I’m undoubtedly in the safe zone. It seems to be rare for young people to die from this, but it certainly does happen.

I mean, evidently, you can be healthy enough to work out and play sports, and still carry diseases that put you at risk of being exposed to the Coronavirus. It’s a risk most young people are willing to bet on, but I don’t personally want to assume that I’m immune to this ilness that the world seems to know so little about.

as long as you stay fearful and believe all the bullshit you read you will be susceptible to it


No need to exaggerate. I don’t fear it, but I don’t nonchalantly brush it off as some harmless, old people’s problem either. Everything always has to be so black and white, right or left, racist or not racist on this forum. More often than not, there is a middle ground.

People below the age of 30 have died here, in Sweden, in Spain, and possibly other countries as well. They all had some type of ilness that likely made them more vulnerable to the virus, and some of them weren’t even aware that they had any underlying health issues. That tells me that it’s not necessarily just old people who are at risk. It seems likely that there are at least two different types of the virus, as well.

I’m not afraid of being infected, but again, I don’t treat it like it’s a flu that only harms old people or younger people who have very apparent health issues to begin with. We can’t all be as woke as you, EG, but it seems very clear to me that the general knowledge on this virus and it’s effects on different types of people, is very limited.
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Post by Jay29 Thu May 14, 2020 11:28 am

iftikhar wrote:Guys, serious question. Is Herd Immunity real??? Is there substantial scientific evidences supporting it!!!

Apparently it's our only option, so, what are our odds!!!

Basically, if enough of the population is infected with the virus, they will have SOME immunity which means they can't be infected again for a period of time. In that scenario, the virus will run out of people to infect and slow down considerably. At that point, it either dies out due to a lack of hosts, or it mutates into something different but likely less severe to ensure its survival.

Herd immunity is the natural end to most epidemics, but it doesn't always mean the end to the virus because the length of immunity varies. When it comes to Covid 19, we know people have antibodies and should, therefore, have some immunity, but we don't yet know for how long. It could be a year, 10 years, or just one month, for all we know.

There are other risks as well. If you let the virus run through a population, naturally the number of sick people at any one time is going to be very high. This virus has quite a high hospitalisation rate so hospitals would fill up very quickly. Without the capacity to handle that, more people will die than expected. This is why nations around the world have been trying to spread out the cases over a longer period of time.

People below the age of 30 have died here, in Sweden, in Spain, and possibly other countries as well. They all had some type of ilness that likely made them more vulnerable to the virus, and some of them weren’t even aware that they had any underlying health issues. That tells me that it’s not necessarily just old people who are at risk. It seems likely that there are at least two different types of the virus, as well.

For me, the big mystery is this:

There could be two perfectly healthy 30 year old men, with no underlying problems, who both get infected. One doesn't display any symptoms at all, while the other has a heart attack, stroke, septic shock, pneumonia or kidney failure.

What determines that? Genetics? Some kind of nutrient deficiency somewhere? Pure dumb luck?

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Post by Art Morte Thu May 14, 2020 11:53 am

^ What I also find interesting is that being overweight is a risk factor. Do we know what is the reason for that? Are there other illnesses where being overweight increases your chances of dying? My best guess is that your heart and lungs have to work harder when you're overweight, but I haven't seen any "scientific" answer to this.
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Post by CBarca Thu May 14, 2020 1:27 pm

Can we please keep out the pseudoscience

Both statements about how you need to develop a strong immune system and how being fearful of it is a problem are fabrication
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Post by sportsczy Thu May 14, 2020 3:55 pm

Art Morte wrote:^ What I also find interesting is that being overweight is a risk factor. Do we know what is the reason for that? Are there other illnesses where being overweight increases your chances of dying? My best guess is that your heart and lungs have to work harder when you're overweight, but I haven't seen any "scientific" answer to this.

High blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. It's not the weight itself. It's the issue that being overweight causes.
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Post by sportsczy Thu May 14, 2020 4:06 pm

CBarca wrote:Can we please keep out the pseudoscience

Both statements about how you need to develop a strong immune system and how being fearful of it is a problem are fabrication

The scientists (the real ones; not the pseudo ones on mainstream media) are the ones that are making the nuances and running tests against the theories.  Coronavirus uses your immune response system to go nuclear once you get it... that's a fact.  But you need a strong immune system to give yourself the best chance of not getting it... that's also a fact.   Regardless, it's better to not get it because immunosuppressants don't necessarily work fast enough... even if you start taking them, they take too long to have a significant enough impact.

That's why hydroxychloroquine was hyped... it's an immunosuppressant.  The problem is the side effects, the window in the C19 cycle where it could work and the time it takes for the drug to have an impact.

That's science.  You figure out how a virus reacts at different stages of its lifecycle (which we know about C19) and you look for treatments/drugs that either treat the illness to make the symptoms milder or kill it entirely (vaccine).

We're running live human trials in society because we have no time to do it in a lab.
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Post by iftikhar Thu May 14, 2020 4:34 pm

Thanks @Jay29. BTW, You were sick for some time, right! Hope you are well now.
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Post by Myesyats Thu May 14, 2020 4:56 pm

CBarca wrote:Can we please keep out the pseudoscience

Both statements about how you need to develop a strong immune system

The only myth about this is that you can do it just like that by injecting vitamins and pills.

Thats literally what vaccines do: boost your immune system against certain pathogens.

And stressing out/not getting enough sleep will have more effect on most people's health that Corona could ever have in meantime until we have the vaccine.

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Post by CBarca Thu May 14, 2020 5:04 pm

There is evidence that being immunocompromised is an issue with COVID-19.

There is no evidence that simply having a strong immune system will keep you from getting COVID-19, hence the number of people, even extremely healthy and strong people, that have it or have gotten it. The same as the flu, the common cold, or other illnesses. Especially as it is a novel pathogen. You can have a very strong immune system, but that says nothing about whether you'll get it or not. It's likely a stronger immune system should put you in a better shape for fighting it and, as is obvious considering the aforementioned immunocompromised individuals, has some protective effects.

Eating Burger King will not help you fight off COVID-19.
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Post by Young Kaz Thu May 14, 2020 5:12 pm

Blood pressure is not synonomous with being overweight.

It has been historically been a huge issue with Japanese people even though the incidence of obesity is pretty low on the island. A lot of it is genetic, and a bit is external factors such as stress.

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Post by Pedram Thu May 14, 2020 5:22 pm

Eating Burger King to fight off Coronavirus, are we trying one up Trump in introducing ridiculous solutions? Laughing
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Post by Myesyats Thu May 14, 2020 5:25 pm

CBarca wrote:There is evidence that being immunocompromised is an issue with COVID-19.

There is no evidence that simply having a strong immune system will keep you from getting COVID-19, hence the number of people, even extremely healthy and strong people, that have it or have gotten it. The same as the flu, the common cold, or other illnesses. Especially as it is a novel pathogen. You can have a very strong immune system, but that says nothing about whether you'll get it or not. It's likely a stronger immune system should put you in a better shape for fighting it and, as is obvious considering the aforementioned immunocompromised individuals, has some protective effects.

Eating Burger King will not help you fight off COVID-19.

Alright, but it isn't pseudoscience. I understand that some people can take in a way where they'll think they can go out and party because their immune system is rock solid which I know is totally idiotic, but simply saying a stronger immune system can help you fight it off .... there's nothing pseudo about it.

I don't know how Burger King got dragged into this.

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Post by Myesyats Thu May 14, 2020 5:26 pm

Young Kaz wrote:Blood pressure is not synonomous with being overweight.

It has been historically been a huge issue with Japanese people even though the incidence of obesity is pretty low on the island. A lot of it is genetic, and a bit is external factors such as stress.

Being overweight increases your risk of developing high blood pressure.

In fact, your blood pressure rises as your body weight increases.

https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/files/docs/public/heart/hbp_low.pdf

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Post by Young Kaz Thu May 14, 2020 5:40 pm

Myesyats wrote:
Young Kaz wrote:Blood pressure is not synonomous with being overweight.

It has been historically been a huge issue with Japanese people even though the incidence of obesity is pretty low on the island. A lot of it is genetic, and a bit is external factors such as stress.

Being overweight increases your risk of developing high blood pressure.

In fact, your blood pressure rises as your body weight increases.

https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/files/docs/public/heart/hbp_low.pdf


Yeah but that is not the same as synonymous though.

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Post by sportsczy Thu May 14, 2020 5:47 pm

CBarca wrote:There is evidence that being immunocompromised is an issue with COVID-19.

There is no evidence that simply having a strong immune system will keep you from getting COVID-19, hence the number of people, even extremely healthy and strong people, that have it or have gotten it. The same as the flu, the common cold, or other illnesses. Especially as it is a novel pathogen. You can have a very strong immune system, but that says nothing about whether you'll get it or not. It's likely a stronger immune system should put you in a better shape for fighting it and, as is obvious considering the aforementioned immunocompromised individuals, has some protective effects.

Eating Burger King will not help you fight off COVID-19.

Yes there is evidence.  You're wrong.  Having a strong immune system does help you not getting C19 by definition.  It's a coronavirus.  There are tons of coronavirus' out there.  It's a viral infection leading to respiratory problems.  This isn't up for debate.
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Post by CBarca Thu May 14, 2020 5:49 pm

Myesyats wrote:
CBarca wrote:There is evidence that being immunocompromised is an issue with COVID-19.

There is no evidence that simply having a strong immune system will keep you from getting COVID-19, hence the number of people, even extremely healthy and strong people, that have it or have gotten it. The same as the flu, the common cold, or other illnesses. Especially as it is a novel pathogen. You can have a very strong immune system, but that says nothing about whether you'll get it or not. It's likely a stronger immune system should put you in a better shape for fighting it and, as is obvious considering the aforementioned immunocompromised individuals, has some protective effects.

Eating Burger King will not help you fight off COVID-19.

Alright, but it isn't pseudoscience. I understand that some people can take in a way where they'll think they can go out and party because their immune system is rock solid which I know is totally idiotic, but simply saying a stronger immune system can help you fight it off .... there's nothing pseudo about it.

I don't know how Burger King got dragged into this.


I was responding to the sentence "So you need to build you immune system up to not get C19", which implies that by building one's immune system, you can avoid C19. Then a follow up sentence about burger king. Which is probably a joke, but the internet is so fraught with misinformation right now that my humor with respect to COVID is suppressed (funny as that sounds)
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Post by CBarca Thu May 14, 2020 5:51 pm

Sports, I literally said having a stronger immune system provides protective effects.

I have a problem with the statement that a strong immune system will allow you to not get COVID-19. That's not true. Nobody is protected. That's what makes it novel.
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Post by sportsczy Thu May 14, 2020 5:55 pm

A stronger immune system increases the chances that you won't get coronavirus because it will fight it off before it has a chance to infect you. Nobody said 100%. Once you are infected, however, the extreme immune response is a big issue.
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Post by sportsczy Thu May 14, 2020 7:11 pm

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/05/12/1001608/wuhan-will-test-all-11-million-residents-after-spotting-its-first-new-coronavirus-cases/
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