Liverpool Flopping

Doc wrote:Lucas and Milner, 2 midfielders by trade, playing CB and FB respectfully. The former is paired up with Matip, a guy who Schalke basically chased and is playing like a guy that was chased by Schalke with a midfield of Lallana, Can and Wijnaldum.

How much money did Liverpool spend in new signings again because I doubt money was paid to invest in that cancer line up I saw today.

-$4 million net spend.

Liverpool fan in Dec/Jan "I am convinced we will still win the league this season"

Abramovich wrote:Liverpool fan in Dec/Jan "I am convinced we will still win the league this season"

instead of saying Liverpool fans/fan why not just say james.

I guess I'll just pose the same question as I did in the other thread, but, you're telling me a team that is undefeated against the top 6 in England doesn't have good enough players?

I find that incredibly lazy. There's no way that these players aren't good enough (maybe one or two need to go, but there's more than enough talent to beat a team like Leicester, or Bournemouth or Burnley or Wolverhampton etc. etc.

The defence isn't good enough yet how many goals have we conceded to the likes of United, City, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal? The issue is with the approach and the mentality not the personnel.

I'll give my answer. Yes, they are simply not good enough.

Being undefeated against the top 6 is great but it doesn't mean that the team is great. That's just a big match, and with the right motivation players can perform above their standard. It doesn't mean that they can do it every week. Being good enough it not just your best performance but all your performance. On a bad day, most of the Liverpool players are terrible. That's the problem right there. Champions teams are always characterized by winning on bad night where nothing seems to work. That is because their players are that much better.

As an example, Zaza sealed our title last year in the key match vs Napoli, he also just scored a great goal against Madrid. Is Zaza good enough to lead the line for us because he can do that? NO. Same thing for Morata and Sturaro who have a knack for showing up in the biggest games, but are not reliable enough every week.

You're absolutely right. Just take a look at the mighty backline of Burnley or the scathing attack of Wolverhampton. The dominating midfield of Leicester was surely beyond the quality levels of the feeble 'only punches above their weight for big games' Liverpool squad.

Curtinho wrote:You're absolutely right. Just take a look at the mighty backline of Burnley or the scathing attack of Wolverhampton. The dominating midfield of Leicester was surely beyond the quality levels of the feeble 'only punches above their weight for big games' Liverpool squad.

spot on. we have more than enough talent to beat relagation teams. they beat us because they have a game plan and good defensive organisation something we badly lack.

I saw a quote from coutinho the other day that I thought was very interesting. he said klopp gives us the freedom to go out and attack. he said we all have instructions from the manager when we defend but when we attack klopp lets us do what we like pretty much. now look how well we attack and how bad we defend.

Curtinho wrote:You're absolutely right. Just take a look at the mighty backline of Burnley or the scathing attack of Wolverhampton. The dominating midfield of Leicester was surely beyond the quality levels of the feeble 'only punches above their weight for big games' Liverpool squad.

You are missing the point. Of course Brunley is worse than Liverpool, but just like Liverpool players can punch above their weight to beat a Chelsea or City, so can Burnley players do it and beat Liverpool. When you play 20 or 30 games and consistency is needed, the Burnley players average down to their position and Liverpool up to theirs.

Except big upsets and certain situations, league tables don't lie. Its how your team plays that has you 5th or whatever. If you had a scrub coach bringing the team down then you could argue that your players are better than what they show, but Klopp is not that, is he? His failing to fix the team in the transfer market are clear, but on the matchday he is still very good, and has these players playing pretty much as well as they can.

rincon wrote:

Curtinho wrote:You're absolutely right. Just take a look at the mighty backline of Burnley or the scathing attack of Wolverhampton. The dominating midfield of Leicester was surely beyond the quality levels of the feeble 'only punches above their weight for big games' Liverpool squad.

You are missing the point. Of course Brunley is worse than Liverpool, but just like Liverpool players can punch above their weight to beat a Chelsea or City, so can Burnley players do it and beat Liverpool. When you play 20 or 30 games and consistency is needed, the Burnley players average down to their position and Liverpool up to theirs.

Except big upsets and certain situations, league tables don't lie. Its how your team plays that has you 5th or whatever. If you had a scrub coach bringing the team down then you could argue that your players are better than what they show, but Klopp is not that, is he? His failing to fix the team in the transfer market are clear, but on the matchday he is still very good, and has these players playing pretty much as well as they can.

no way does klopp have this team defending as best they can. like I said just now if a good game plan and organisation can make scrub teams snuff us out then a good game plan and organisation on out part would see us snuff out the attack of relagation teams.

You can't win every game, no one does. You can't expect to always get it right against all the small teams and also against all the big teams. Every team has bad nights for many reasons, and in those moments you need the great players to bail you out. Liverpool needs more of those if they want to keep pace with the consistency of Chelsea.

Not saying that Klopp can't do better, just that is not your only (or main) issue.

rincon wrote:You can't win every game, no one does. You can't expect to always get it right against all the small teams and also against all the big teams. Every team has bad nights for many reasons, and in those moments you need the great players to bail you out. Liverpool needs more of those if they want to keep pace with the consistency of Chelsea.

Not saying that Klopp can't do better, just that is not your only (or main) issue.

I agree with you our squad is not gonna win us the title and would not give a good showing in the champions lge. but if you look at the goals we give away against bottom 3 teams a good manager would not let that happen. last night our fullbacks were pushing forward and our 2 centre backs were on the half way line and we had lucas marking vardy. come on mate you don't need to be a world class manager to know that cant happen. if we cant field a cb that can out sprint vardy then you don't leave him 1 on 1 on the half way line with him. its not that hard to see that tbh.

Agree with that.

rincon wrote:

Curtinho wrote:You're absolutely right. Just take a look at the mighty backline of Burnley or the scathing attack of Wolverhampton. The dominating midfield of Leicester was surely beyond the quality levels of the feeble 'only punches above their weight for big games' Liverpool squad.

You are missing the point. Of course Brunley is worse than Liverpool, but just like Liverpool players can punch above their weight to beat a Chelsea or City, so can Burnley players do it and beat Liverpool. When you play 20 or 30 games and consistency is needed, the Burnley players average down to their position and Liverpool up to theirs.

Except big upsets and certain situations, league tables don't lie. Its how your team plays that has you 5th or whatever. If you had a scrub coach bringing the team down then you could argue that your players are better than what they show, but Klopp is not that, is he? His failing to fix the team in the transfer market are clear, but on the matchday he is still very good, and has these players playing pretty much as well as they can.

I'm not missing the point; the point just has little merit. When you're talking about Liverpool losing consistently to relegation battle opposition and Liverpool consistently getting positive results against the top teams in the league you're not looking at 'one off' games, or random upset games that involve punching above their weight. This is a pattern of performance where it's not just one or two players coming up big in moments; they've completely outplayed the top teams and set up amateurishly against weaker sides (as Unique pointed out their structure and approach against Leicester was asinine).

I'm sorry but this is not an issue of quality in these players to beat mid-table sides. Do I think they're as good of a team on paper as City, Chelsea, Arsenal and United? No, I don't. That's been my argument for years when people were slating Rodgers. However, it is most definitely better than any other team in the league or maybe on par with Spurs. If the manager can figure out a way to outplay them or get positive results he should be able to figure out a way to not set up for failure against the mid and bottom table teams.

If you believe that your squad is worse than City, Chelsea, Arsenal and United and maybe on par with Spurs then you are right on the position of the table you ought to be. It means you have a squad problem.


^That says it all

rincon wrote:If you believe that your squad is worse than City, Chelsea, Arsenal and United and maybe on par with Spurs then you are right on the position of the table you ought to be. It means you have a squad problem.

Can
Milener Lucas Matip Clyne
Mignolet

^That says it all

I understand the point your making but we are getting beat by teams that have a far worst squad than we do so it cant be player quality. if klopp was getting the best out of a poor squad then we would be beating the teams at the bottom and losing to the teams at the top.

Ever thought of it this way, Its because you are playing so well with intense pressing and energy against big teams you are failing to deliver against inferior teams?

Until the end of December against the so called weaker teams your record was 9 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses in 13 matches. 29 points from a possible 39. That is the form of a title challenging team. You guys were on a roll until then collecting points against both big and small boys consistently.

Its only in January you began dropping points against weaker teams, like consistently. (0,1,3) A mere 1 point from a possible 12 against smaller teams.
So, the trend is not uniform and coincides with the season's second half.

@Nish will probably loose it if I come up with this again but the thing is you just cant ignore it. You were so good during the 1st half of the season because you were doing more work than your opponent and you were the most run team in the league by a considerable stretch if I am not mistaken. And if your players are not elite level (barring some yea) it will come down to hurt you sooner rather than later. So, I think the issue with Pool is more down to their shockingly poor squad depth. Their first team is good but not good enough to sustain that level both mentally and physically.

P.S Now loosing in that manner against Leicester after having more than 2 weeks rest is odd and disapproves my theory ofc. lol. Probably its on Klopp for not preparing his team well, I dunno.

Sick of this *bleep* bullshit. Sick to god of Liverpool fans over hyping this squad. Sick to god of dickheads wanting Klopp out.

Now, Klopp is not innocent here. He has his faults. But he's the only genuine world class figure at the club. This squad needs an overhaul. Be ruthless for *bleep* sake. And by ruthless I mean stop sticking by shit, not for *bleep* being 5 minute late to a *bleep* dinner or lunch or whatever the *bleep* it was.

I know Klopp likes to have the same team and let them gel but *bleep* hell this is the worst Liverpool squad in terms of talent in YEARS. There's literally no player in the team right now that has an X factor. There's no leadership. Our one defender that leads at the back is ON LOAN TO CRYSTAL *bleep* PALACE, we have Lucas (who's a loyal servant, but injuries has ruined his quality to a solid squad player... note: as a midfielder, not defender), Klavan is okay but isn't solid enough to consistently start for us, and you know your defence is terrible when Dejan Lovren should be in the line up right now. FIX THE DEFENSIVE ISSUES. Matip is great. Build it around him. Drop Mignolet. Throw Karius in. You're not going to get anywhere trying to bed him in / make him stagnate on the bench. Just throw him into the deep end and let him develop.

Not too mention our midfield. Since January our midfield has gone to shit. There's no midfielder shielding this defence. There's no midfielder offering any attacking support. There's no midfielder creating anything. There's no link to attack. There's no heart. Bunch of spineless bastards passing it sideways. It pisses me the *bleep* off. GO FORWARD. RISK SHIT.

I told everybody that Rodgers ruined us in the long term when we were title challenging with Luis Suarez ffs. He built a very very average side for his successor. Spent 300m on mostly shit. What do you think happens when you buy from mid-table clubs all the time? You get a mid-table mentality. That's Liverpool's issue right now. There's no winning mentality on the pitch.

Players are spineless and only hype themselves up against the top 6. It's been the same story since Rafa's gone. You can say all the "it's easy for the bottom 10 to play against us, just sit back and defend and watch Klopp's system go to shit". It's a stupid lazy ignorant comment no doubtfully spilled out by Unique and Curtinho trying to defend Rodgers. WATCH THE PLAYERS MENTALITY AND BODY ATTITUDE. THEY LITERALLY DON'T TURN UP. There's no effort. It's embarrassing. Weak minded *bleep*. That's the biggest issue, and it's been the worst issue at the club since Rafa Benitez has left the club. And it's no surprise when for 8-9 years since Rafa's gone we've had Roy Hodgson, Kenny Dalgish and Rodgers manage the club.

Daniel Sturridge is reportedly on the way out, and I think he'll be the first of many. I hope to god we somehow get into the top 4 so we can atleast bring in some quality.

Don't call me James wrote:

Firmino is the biggest fraud at the club. I would gladly sell him and would love to see the back of his ugly mug.

Do *bleep* off.

He's in the top 3 best players at the club.

It's not his fault he has no service and he's getting shifted on the wing to try and accommodate Sturridge who's lost his passion, and Origi who's actually genuinely not good enough. I told you all, French N'gog but nooooooo Rodgers good Klopp bad bah.

Hapless_Hans wrote:

Klopp is flopping. He needs to step it up ASAP.

He isn't flopping, look at his team ffs.

Clyne, Lovren, Milner as left back?
A midfield of Henderson, Lallana, Wijnaldum?
A front three with no striker?

(and I'm not a fan of Klopp).

Oh, and I forgot, frigging Mignolet under the posts, probably the worst goalkeeper a top european club has.

Hapless_Hans wrote:Shocking stuff.

To think that Klopp has now had 4 transfer windows and we have Milner, Lucas, Matip and Can as the base of his team.

That's absolutely laughable.

If he doesn't improve the team next summer he needs to go IMO.

He's had 3 windows; and 2 in January. Liverpool as a whole have a good track record in January, but it's not a great market to get into. He also refused to sign in his first 3 months at the club opting to give the players a chance. So he's initially had one.

His summer transfer was solid to good. There was nothing good in the last window apart from maybe Draxler and he was always going to pick PSG over Liverpool if we were interested.

He's inherited a mid-table team. We've finished in the top 4 once since Rafael Benitez has been sacked. Rafa has not been at the club since 2010. Yes, you read that right. We've been in the top four ONCE in the last 8 years.

Unlike Rodgers and Hodgson, Klopp HAS a winning mentality. He'll get it right. It took him 2-3 years to build Dortmund. Liverpool fans have no patience. Let him fix the mistakes at the club. He's already fixed a lot of them off the pitch, time to get it right on the pitch; and that does mean being ruthless and having a squad over haul this summer. I can't deal. They don't even look like they wanna turn up to the games against the "bottom" sides. They just wanna test their quality against the best and think they're so veryyyyyyyyyyyyyy good when they beat the top that it's okay to not put 100% into the next game. Does my *bleep* head in *bleep* off.

Glory wrote:


@Nish will probably loose it if I come up with this again but the thing is you just cant ignore it. You were so good during the 1st half of the season because you were doing more work than your opponent and you were the most run team in the league by a considerable stretch if I am not mistaken. And if your players are not elite level (barring some yea) it will come down to hurt you sooner rather than later. So, I think the issue with Pool is more down to their shockingly poor squad depth. Their first team is good but not good enough to sustain that level both mentally and physically.

P.S Now loosing in that manner against Leicester after having more than 2 weeks rest is odd and disapproves my theory ofc. lol. Probably its on Klopp for not preparing his team well, I dunno.

Its the players, They've always done this. They are mental midgets failing whenever anything gets serious. Majority of the core are the same players.

We've lost like 5 cup finals with these bunch of weiners and lost 2 title challenges (including this one cuz we were 1st in December) in the last legs. Fatigue has no *bleep* issue here.

Red Alert wrote:

I know Klopp likes to have the same team and let them gel but *bleep* hell this is the worst Liverpool squad in terms of talent in YEARS. There's literally no player in the team right now that has an X factor. There's no leadership. Our one defender that leads at the back is ON LOAN TO CRYSTAL *bleep* PALACE, we have Lucas (who's a loyal servant, but injuries has ruined his quality to a solid squad player... note: as a midfielder, not defender), Klavan is okay but isn't solid enough to consistently start for us, and you know your defence is terrible when Dejan Lovren should be in the line up right now. FIX THE DEFENSIVE ISSUES. Matip is great. Build it around him. Drop Mignolet. Throw Karius in. You're not going to get anywhere trying to bed him in / make him stagnate on the bench. Just throw him into the deep end and let him develop.

Sakho was done in Pre season, Klopp had enough time to replace him, He's failed. Klavan came in and Lucas a player who's not good to start in his regular position DM is starting over him at CB.

This is not the Bundesliga ffs

In Bundesliga Klopp worked with way better players. Hans said in one of the threads, where are the Hummels, Lewandowski and Gundogan level players? Throw in some prime Pickzcek (or however you spell that ), Gotze, Reus, etc and its a lot of great players to carry the other scrubs.

Maybe they'll break the bank in the summer?

We have to. If we don't, Klopp won't last the year with this same core.

@RA, dont think Klopp will get the same amount of time he got at BVB with Pool. 3 years is like until the 19-20 season. No way Liverpool board will give him that much time. (If you can attain top 4 at least twice in that period, I dunno, may be).

However I do believe Klopp will get a 80-100m transfer purse window. He must be regretting now not going for better players in the last window and clearly overestimated his credentials slightly. Therefore next summer I can see him being a bit more proactive. And the board themselves must have understood by know theres no way around it and the issue need desperate fixing.