Re: The Arsenal Injury Thread

[Raptorgunner]

Looks like Gibbs is out also, calf injury.

[silver]

I guess the one minor positive we get from this crisis is that we'll be able to play Oxlade-Chamberlain on the left flank which is where he is at his best.

But then it wouldn't surprise me if we lineup like:

Flamini - Arteta
Chamberlain - Ramsey - Özil
Giroud

Arteta is also injured.

The problem is all our player's styles are different. Campbell and Ox both play as inverted wingers so they won't be crossing the ball. Giroud relies on service but will only get that from Ozil. Ox and Campbell are both pacey, but Giroud is not. Ozil and the forwards rely on Cazorla to transition the ball out of midfield. Ramsey is the one who makes the runs and gets on the end of those passes, not make them. Flamini makes more forward runs than Coquelin but doesn't have the pace or stamina to recover.

I just hope that tactically we are prepared and have a plan going forward. Maybe Ozil needs to drop deeper to transition the ball forward, maybe Ox and Campbell play on the opposite wings, maybe Giroud starts on the bench, Are we playing on the counter? Crossing the ball into the box? Who am I kidding. We will play the same way as always with different players.

[El Gunner]

Come on Silver, you know Wenger is going to change nothing. He is going to play the same way even though we're not in the best position, personnel wise, to execute it effectively. We will just have to hope we get a lot of luck in December until some of our players come back in the new year.

[Jay29]

The Guardian say that Cazorla has ligament damage in his knee.

So that likely means a longer lay off...

[urbaNRoots]

Alexis expected to be out for a month but we'll get a confirmation tomorrow.

On the other hand Walcott and Koscielny could be available this weekend.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/12025622/Arsenal-injury-news-Alexis-Sanchez-and-Santi-Cazorla-to-miss-Olympiakos-Champions-League-decider.html

[urbaNRoots]

http://news.arseblog.com/2015/12/5-alternatives-to-the-gulliver-theory-about-arsenal-injuries/

If you are in need of a few chuckles.

[El Gunner]

More than a few sensible chuckles
Haha aha!

[Amar]

This is absolutely insane. It all comes down to Wenger having too much faith in his players, and now it seems its at the point where he lets players decide if they're fit for a game.

It was crystal clear to all that Sanchez needed a rest and yet he kept driving him into the ground. All we can hope now is Theo comes back ASAP so we have at least one competent attacking sub available for the next few weeks.

[Raptorgunner]

http://news.arseblog.com/2015/12/5-alternatives-to-the-gulliver-theory-about-arsenal-injuries/

If you are in need of a few chuckles.

[urbaNRoots]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/dec/02/santi-cazorla-out-three-months-arsenal-knee-injury

3 months for Cazorla

smh

[Jay29]

Similar injury to Coquelin's, it seems. We can't even pin these ones of lack of rotation as they were impact injuries (though keeping him on surely didn't help). Of course, it's very typical of us to lose both our first choice CMs within a week.

Also very typical that we'll be going into a big game against City soon without Coquelin, Cazorla and potentially Alexis, not to mention anyone else who gets injured before then.

[Raptorgunner]

Wenger" Cazrola played on one leg the second half"

Wenger knew he couldn't afford any more injuries but yet kept him on the second half, now god knows when he would be back. The CL game where the game was won and no reason for Sanchez to play 90min against
Dinamo Zagreb.

Rotation is obvious a factor in these injuries, Wenger has trust issues and why we have bench players I dont know?

[Hapless_Hans]

Have to say, I remember reading someone posting here something like "now Cazorlai injured his knee " (Jay or RG?) during the match, and I thought 'oh damn'.

Then I looked at the ticker later and saw Cazorla wasn't subbed off (Alexis was), so I thought 'damn, Alexis injured but at least Cazorla doesn't seem to be bad'.

Now it's 3 months out.

You HAVE to wonder whether it might not be significantly less had he been subbed off?

[Hapless_Hans]

Cazorla was one of three players to pick up injuries at Carrow Road, with Alexis Sánchez and Laurent Koscielny unable to finish the game. Cazorla, who was hurt when challenging Gary O’Neil for the ball, stayed on the pitch despite suffering the injury in the first minute of the second half.

He was struggling to run towards the end and stayed on only because Wenger had used his three substitutes. “The worrying thing was that it got worse,” Wenger said after the game.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/dec/02/santi-cazorla-out-three-months-arsenal-knee-injury

Makes my head explode tbh

[Jay29]

Does Pep do this sort of stuff? I know Bayern get a lot of injuries year on year as well.

Thing is, we hadn't used all three of our subs when Cazorla got the injury at the start of the second half. We had made one by then - Gabriel for Koscielny - and still had two. One ended up being Alexis, who did his hamstring, and the other Ramsey, who was fine but evidently wasn't planned to play 90 mins after his own injury.

So Cazorla could have easily been subbed, even if it meant Ramsey playing 90 mins. Ramsey could actually move, Cazorla couldn't - surely that is a definite sign somebody needs to come of?

There's so much incompetence here. Wenger talks about Alexis needing a rest and how he can't rest him because of injuries, but when the opportunity comes up, he plays anyway. He played 90 mins in that 5-1 at Bayern, when the game was long gone. He went through the international break injured but played anyway. He played 90 mins against Zagreb when the game was comfortable after 60 minutes. Then he starts again against Norwich even though Ramsey was back and Campbell was an option. Then he turns round and says "oh, Alexis said he was fine and wanted to play".

Wenger blamed Wales for Ramsey's injury, but even if Ramsey came back tired from international duty, is it not the manager's responsibility to ensure his player is fit and healthy before playing him? But a tired Ramsey then plays 90 mins against Watford and a couple of days later starts against Bayern and injures himself early. A week later Ox injures himself against Sheffield Wendesday then Wenger sends on Walcott without a warm-up and Walcott gets injured as well.

It's just as well Germany gave Ozil some time off otherwise I'm sure he'd be facing a month out as well.

Now we're back to square one and can't rotate because everyone is injured. Which means someone else will soon get injured because he's playing too much. It's times like this I really wish we had a winter break.

[Hapless_Hans]

Does Pep do this sort of stuff? I know Bayern get a lot of injuries year on year as well.

That would have to be a no.
Quite honestly in the past I never felt we had remarkably many injuries, it was never really a talking point.

Last season the injury situation was freakishly bad, and then I saw a stat that showed it was the worst injury percentage of any European team in the last 5 years or so.
Many different injuries, different situations. I'm not sure how to judge it.
Quite some of our players get injured in International games (Götze, Alaba), Robben's injury proneness is surely not down to our club - if anything it had improved before getting worse again.
So I wouldn't say it's a systematic problem with us, even if of course last season there were some strange things, the Ribéry injury seems to have been diagnosed wrongly etc, and of course our team doctor did leave and a new system was installed, after all.

But I can say I've never consciously witnessed a situation where a player was out for a long time, after visibly getting injured in a situation (proven by your post during the game) and then having continued.
Usually, Pep subs players off at the first sign of trouble.

Thing is, we hadn't used all three of our subs when Cazorla got the injury at the start of the second half. We had made one by then - Gabriel for Koscielny - and still had two. One ended up being Alexis, who did his hamstring, and the other Ramsey, who was fine but evidently wasn't planned to play 90 mins after his own injury.

So Cazorla could have easily been subbed, even if it meant Ramsey playing 90 mins. Ramsey could actually move, Cazorla couldn't - surely that is a definite sign somebody needs to come of?

Not only that, but then the logic "he couldn't go off because all subs were used when it got so bad" is absolutely maddening.

I mean, if a player is INJURED, surely he HAS to come off no matter whether someone can be substituted?
It's unfortunate, but then you just have to play with 10 men, no?
If someone breaks a leg, is Wenger going to say, oh, that's bad but we have no subs left?

So logically, Cazorla should come off and then later maybe Sanchez would have to go off without a player being able to come on. 20 minutes down to 10, it's not good but inevitable?

There's so much incompetence here. Wenger talks about Alexis needing a rest and how he can't rest him because of injuries, but when the opportunity comes up, he plays anyway. He played 90 mins in that 5-1 at Bayern, when the game was long gone. He went through the international break injured but played anyway. He played 90 mins against Zagreb when the game was comfortable after 60 minutes. Then he starts again against Norwich even though Ramsey was back and Campbell was an option. Then he turns round and says "oh, Alexis said he was fine and wanted to play".

Wenger blamed Wales for Ramsey's injury, but even if Ramsey came back tired from international duty, is it not the manager's responsibility to ensure his player is fit and healthy before playing him? But a tired Ramsey then plays 90 mins against Watford and a couple of days later starts against Bayern and injures himself early. A week later Ox injures himself against Sheffield Wendesday then Wenger sends on Walcott without a warm-up and Walcott gets injured as well.

It's just as well Germany gave Ozil some time off otherwise I'm sure he'd be facing a month out as well.

Now we're back to square one and can't rotate because everyone is injured. Which means someone else will soon get injured because he's playing too much. It's times like this I really wish we had a winter break.

I've always been hesitant to have too much of a firm opinion about how the medical department/Wenger is to blame because, as I said, different injuries with different reasons/circumstances.

Also I felt that since this injury problem has been a focus of many years, we might have confirmation bias if a player gets injured ("There we go again, Wenger should have known better" etc) when maybe the culpability/reason isn't that clear.

At the same time, if it's a pattern then it's a pattern. And it's a pattern.
How Alexis could not be rested before is absolutely mind boggling.
Wenger talked last season how Alexis always feels fit and wants to play, that's admirable, but surely a manager would have to know better?
You guys kept talking about it, in countless of small games I wondered 'Alexis still not getting rotated?'.
And voila.

It's also a pattern because last fall Özil played in a game, and then went to the German NT where it was discovered he was injured badly.
Wenger then said, 'oh yeah, in half time he'd spoken of feeling something happening in his knee but he was ok to play on...' and apparently the medical team didn't find it necessary to check.

Given the massive problem Arsenal has with injuries, given how this issue had become notorious about 5 years ago and now has gone on to beyond notorious, I really don't get how Wenger can continue to be so seemingly cavalier about this - both in resting players/rotation and in taking signs of injury seriously at an early stage.

[Jay29]

Cazorla has ruptured his lateral knee ligament and has had surgery. Expected to be out for four months:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/dec/06/santi-cazorla-arsenal-knee-operation-months?CMP=share_btn_tw

For all intents and purposes, his season is over.

[RealGunner]

Wilshere might be back by March (:

[Sri]

There's so much incompetence here. Wenger talks about Alexis needing a rest and how he can't rest him because of injuries, but when the opportunity comes up, he plays anyway. He played 90 mins in that 5-1 at Bayern, when the game was long gone. He went through the international break injured but played anyway. He played 90 mins against Zagreb when the game was comfortable after 60 minutes. Then he starts again against Norwich even though Ramsey was back and Campbell was an option. Then he turns round and says "oh, Alexis said he was fine and wanted to play".

Wenger blamed Wales for Ramsey's injury, but even if Ramsey came back tired from international duty, is it not the manager's responsibility to ensure his player is fit and healthy before playing him? But a tired Ramsey then plays 90 mins against Watford and a couple of days later starts against Bayern and injures himself early. A week later Ox injures himself against Sheffield Wendesday then Wenger sends on Walcott without a warm-up and Walcott gets injured as well.

It's just as well Germany gave Ozil some time off otherwise I'm sure he'd be facing a month out as well.

Now we're back to square one and can't rotate because everyone is injured. Which means someone else will soon get injured because he's playing too much. It's times like this I really wish we had a winter break.

MJ and Anjl were surprised that I went off the boiler at HT this weekend. This post sums up exactly why, even though we won that particular game 3-1 without any additional injuries.

[Jay29]

Flamini could be back for Newcastle, Alexis could be back for Sunderland the week after. No new injuries from the Bournemouth game, by some miracle.

Wenger also said Wilshere's season isn't in doubt, that although his recovery is going slowly and that he won't be back until after February, he will return at some point this season. We all know the truth.

Arteta back in training but short of match fitness.

Rosicky "three weeks away" from returning to training.

[MJ]

That's another three months minimum for Wilshere, 6 weeks for Rosicky, 2 for Arteta and 81 for Welbeck.

Elneny will paper over all the cracks, dw.

[RealGunner]

If only I could find my post from before

No way we will see Wilshere before April

[REWB]

i dont care about wilshere, but i am hoping rosicky comes back soon, i miss his play.

[MJ]

So, just to take stock again, it's (according to Wenger):

Santi Cazorla (knee) - 3 months
Francis Coquelin (knee) - 2 months
Jack Wilshere (ankle) - 2 months
Danny Welbeck (knee) - 2 months
Tomas Rosicky (knee) - 3 weeks
Alexis Sanchez (hamstring) - 1 week
Mikel Arteta (calf) - until match fit

http://www.arsenal.com/team-news

[RealGunner]

Realistically

Cazorla - End of march
Coquelin - Mid Feb since he is younger
Wilshere - April
Welbeck - Mid-end Feb
Rosicky - FA Cup match 4th round
Sanchez - 2 weeks
Arteta - 2 weeks

[Sri]

Actually:

Cazorla - End of season
Coquelin - Mid Feb since we don't buy a DM in January
Wilshere - 2016/17
Welbeck - 2016/17
Rosicky - He's still with us? O.o
Sanchez - Rushed back in 2 weeks, injured in third week. Repeat.
Arteta - Au revoir!

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