Karim Benzema

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Post by Mamad Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:12 pm

No CF can be himself and achieve great stats when Ronaldo is in the team.

Rooney was his bitch in Manchester and now it's Benz. actually i think Benz is doing a very good job at Madrid.

Rooney had his best goalscoring season when Ronaldo left if im not mistaken.

You think in Madrid Suarez can do what he does in Liverpool? lol.

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Post by Motogp69 Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:35 pm

Yes, I think the style of play Suarez would bring is more in the mold of what Madrid wants and needs out of their Center Forward. Whereas Benzema is just a passenger not remotely reaching the potential that someone in that position should reach.
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Post by FennecFox7 Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:00 am

Mamad wrote:No CF can be himself and achieve great stats when Ronaldo is in the team.

Rooney was his bitch in Manchester and now it's Benz. actually i think Benz is doing a very good job at Madrid.

Rooney had his best goalscoring season when Ronaldo left if im not mistaken.

You think in Madrid Suarez can do what he does in Liverpool? lol.
Yeah.. its ronaldos fault as usual Rolling Eyes

But lets not blame khedira, our fullbacks, and isco.. yeah
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:03 am

Why are we arguing about stats? Benz's stats are amazing. He's been consistently in the top goalscorers and the top assisters in a Spanish and continental level.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:22 am

can we stop trying to turn footy into an american sports?
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Post by Lord Awesome Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:30 am

Benz is amazing but I think Giroud deserves the CF spot. I'd put Benz at SS role or even try and improvise him as an AM. From what I've seen of Benz I think it's better to take advantage of his Technique over his Attacking Prowess. Giroud's Offensive Prowess is much more reliable than Benz. Not only that, but Giroud also has Techincal capabilities that allows him to set up his teamates as well. France should use them both, IMO.
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Post by McAgger Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:37 am

sportsczy wrote:What fallacy?:

2012-2013 for Liverpool - Suarez 29 goals on 208 shots = 13.9%

2011-2012 for Liverpool - Suarez 14 goals on 142 shots = 9.9%

source:  http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/125088/luis-su%C3%A1rez?cc=5739
Both of those stats are wrong, I'm not going to go into detail but you don't even have his goal count right (which even wikipedia gets right). It was 30 last season, and 17 the season before.
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Post by Valkyrja Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:29 pm

It's Ronaldo's fault that Benzema can't finish his chances ? What about selling him and letting Benzema reach his potential ...

I don't want to see what would we do without his 55 goals a season.
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Post by sportsczy Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:39 pm

McAgger wrote:
sportsczy wrote:What fallacy?:

2012-2013 for Liverpool - Suarez 29 goals on 208 shots = 13.9%

2011-2012 for Liverpool - Suarez 14 goals on 142 shots = 9.9%

source:  http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/125088/luis-su%C3%A1rez?cc=5739
Both of those stats are wrong, I'm not going to go into detail but you don't even have his goal count right (which even wikipedia gets right). It was 30 last season, and 17 the season before.
Opta and ESPN are better sources than Wiki LaughingLaughing... also, only count FA.  Nobody counts Community Shield and other crap cups.  It's like counting shatty trophies like the supercup...  nobody does it.  You only count league, CL and the main domestic cup (FA in the case of EPL teams). In france, they only count L1, CL and Coupe de France... ignore Coupe de la Ligue. etc.
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Post by jibers Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:59 pm

Valkyrja wrote:It's Ronaldo's fault that Benzema can't finish his chances ? What about selling him and letting Benzema reach his potential ...

I don't want to see what would we do without his  55 goals a season.
Funny thing. United sold Ronaldo and what happened? We still won 2 EPL titles and reached a cl final. What position where Madrid before Ronaldo joined? 2nd. What position did Madrid occupy 4 out of the 5 seasons after Ronaldo joined? 2nd. Was Ronaldo's 55 goals not scored when Barcelona recorded the biggest deficit between first and second in La Liga history? Was Ronaldo not there when Madrid where knocked out of 3 semi finals in a row? My point is that Madrid is bigger than one player. We are talking about the most prestigious club in football. It's no coincidence that immediately Ronaldo left United Rooney's goal tally went up.

Benzema might miss easy chances but he is still subservient to Ronaldo as Rooney and Tevez were at United. When a whole team has to function according to the movement, especially for a player that is not even central, or supposed to occupy a wide position, the team will inevitably be unbalanced. I have said this before and I will say it again, for all of Ronaldo's goals he is a double edged sword. Look at how many players are uncomfortable trying to just enable Ronaldo's goal scoring.

That is why I will never hold up Ronaldo as highly as Xavi, there is too much individual sacrifice for one player and he is a tactical conundrum.
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Post by Valkyrja Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:07 pm

jibers wrote:
Valkyrja wrote:It's Ronaldo's fault that Benzema can't finish his chances ? What about selling him and letting Benzema reach his potential ...

I don't want to see what would we do without his  55 goals a season.
Funny thing. United sold Ronaldo and what happened? We still won 2 EPL titles and reached a cl final. What position where Madrid before Ronaldo joined? 2nd. What position did Madrid occupy 4 out of the 5 seasons after Ronaldo joined? 2nd. Was Ronaldo's 55 goals not scored when Barcelona recorded the biggest deficit between first and second in La Liga history? Was Ronaldo not there when Madrid where knocked out of 3 semi finals in a row? My point is that Madrid is bigger than one player. We are talking about the most prestigious club in football. It's no coincidence that immediately Ronaldo left United Rooney's goal tally went up.

Benzema might miss easy chances but he is still subservient to Ronaldo as Rooney and Tevez were at United. When a whole team has to function according to the movement, especially  for a player that is not even central, or supposed to occupy a wide position, the team will inevitably be unbalanced. I have said this before and I will say it again, for all of Ronaldo's goals he is a double edged sword. Look at how many players are uncomfortable trying to just enable Ronaldo's goal scoring.

That is why I will never hold up Ronaldo as highly as Xavi, there is too much individual sacrifice for one player and he is a tactical conundrum.
It's a major + to have a player who performs weekly and scores 55 goals a season. You reached UCL final because you met Schalke, an average Chelsea side and Marseille. The year after you didn't pass the groups ffs.

About Ronaldo and Xavi, do you realize that Xavi needed a system built around him to shine ? Ronaldo can work in any team, but can't say the same about Xavi.
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Post by jibers Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:19 pm

Valkyrja wrote:
jibers wrote:
Valkyrja wrote:It's Ronaldo's fault that Benzema can't finish his chances ? What about selling him and letting Benzema reach his potential ...

I don't want to see what would we do without his  55 goals a season.
Funny thing. United sold Ronaldo and what happened? We still won 2 EPL titles and reached a cl final. What position where Madrid before Ronaldo joined? 2nd. What position did Madrid occupy 4 out of the 5 seasons after Ronaldo joined? 2nd. Was Ronaldo's 55 goals not scored when Barcelona recorded the biggest deficit between first and second in La Liga history? Was Ronaldo not there when Madrid where knocked out of 3 semi finals in a row? My point is that Madrid is bigger than one player. We are talking about the most prestigious club in football. It's no coincidence that immediately Ronaldo left United Rooney's goal tally went up.

Benzema might miss easy chances but he is still subservient to Ronaldo as Rooney and Tevez were at United. When a whole team has to function according to the movement, especially  for a player that is not even central, or supposed to occupy a wide position, the team will inevitably be unbalanced. I have said this before and I will say it again, for all of Ronaldo's goals he is a double edged sword. Look at how many players are uncomfortable trying to just enable Ronaldo's goal scoring.

That is why I will never hold up Ronaldo as highly as Xavi, there is too much individual sacrifice for one player and he is a tactical conundrum.
It's a major + to have a player who performs weekly and scores 55 goals a season. You reached UCL final because you met Schalke, an average Chelsea side and Marseille. The year after you didn't pass the groups ffs.

About Ronaldo and Xavi, do you realize that Xavi needed a system built around him to shine ? Ronaldo can work in any team, but can't say the same about Xavi.
As opposed to a system enabled to increase Cristiano's output? Ronaldo needs a counter attacking team to be effective. That is pretty obvious. Also, a Central MF needs a team built around them in order to be able to exert their influence on a game? Shocking I know, right...
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Post by sportsczy Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:57 pm

I think CR7 is a fantastic player... but he scored 53 goals on 358 shots last year. That was equal to Benz, Higuain, Di Maria, Ozil, Callejon and Kaka COMBINED.

We would be a better team if he was a 35-40 goal scorer with better efficiency and other guys were allowed to take on more responsibility.

There's absolutely no doubt about that. But it won't happen... ego's too big.

As it stands, for Madrid to win CL, CR7 has to be near flawless in his performances in all the elimination round games.
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Post by jibers Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:03 pm

sportsczy wrote:I think CR7 is a fantastic player...  but he scored 53 goals on 358 shots last year.  That was equal to Benz, Higuain, Di Maria, Ozil, Callejon and Kaka COMBINED.

We would be a better team if he was a 35-40 goal scorer with better efficiency and other guys were allowed to take on more responsibility.

There's absolutely no doubt about that.  But it won't happen... ego's too big.

As it stands, for Madrid to win CL, CR7 has to be near flawless in his performances in all the elimination round games.  
I said this over 2 years ago. Either that or Ronaldo needs to be moved to a CF position. These little details decide Cl semis.
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Post by sportsczy Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:11 pm

He sucks when he plays CF Jibers... you know this.  He needs to come at you with speed.  When he starts at a standstill with the defense, he can't create separation.  His close control and small area dribbling aren't elite CF quality.

He would bring a great air threat... but i don't think that's worth sacrificing the main strengths of his game.
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Post by jibers Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:21 pm

sportsczy wrote:He sucks when he plays CF Jibers... you know this.  He needs to come at you with speed.  When he starts at a standstill with the defense, he can't create separation.  His close control and small area dribbling aren't elite CF quality.

He would bring a great air threat... but i don't think that's worth sacrificing the main strengths of his game.
Exactly, but will he be sold? Nope.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:37 pm

so without CR, Benzema would dominate for Madrid like he does for France? lol

guys while i agree with what you are saying in principle, it's a bit naive to assume that without CR, Benzema all of a sudden would turn on all the intangibles that comes with being the attacking leader of a massive club like madrid, like Rooney did. please stop.

Talent is not enough, i will keep saying it.
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Post by sportsczy Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:42 pm

yeah.... the haters are coming in again Laughing

Now that you mention Rooney, let Jibers tell you how invisible he looked very often with CR7.  In the 3 years prior to CR7 leaving Man U, Rooney had 23, 18 and 20 goals TOTAL.  

Also, since you're going on and on about NT... in 2010, Rooney had 1 goal in 11 NT starts.

And it's not as if Benz has performed below his standards for 2-3 years... he's one season removed from 30+ goals and 15 assists.  Had a 20/20 season in his "subpar" season last year too.

But keep it coming.  Suarez will the savior of Madrid!  Laughing
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Post by Mr Nick09 Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:56 pm

hating because i dont think benzema is elite?

i have told you before, i dont care about statistics, i care about performances and what you do to elevate your team in the moments that matter most. gomez scored 40 goals but couldnt do better than fiorentina, still a dud.

i am not asking benzema to score 40 goals a season lol, i am asking of him to perform with regularity in la liga, which he doesnt, and to carry to attacking load with CR consistently, which he doesnt.

and that statistic about rooney goals with his NT, you prob got it off wikipedia and i wouldnt be surprised if it's wrong.

make no mistake, suarez would be no savior, but i am pretty sure i want to try something else now. When Benzema leaves and finds a team where he can be the new Cantona, i am sure you will all be happy. Actually, as a fan of his, i dont know why you want him to stay in madrid so desperately if you think CR hinders him so much.

Sounds like a win win for everyone, some other CF gets his head bashed in madrid, you get to see the new cantona/zidane in his prime, win win.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:56 pm

Nah he's not wrong Roonay is shit for the national team.... goalscoring wise anyway.

Not entirely his fault though as its not Benzema's.... its very difficult to replicate club form at international level.... Usually those that do are not at the very top at club level, very few break this trend through out their career.

Which is why what Nerman has been doing since he made his debut for Brazil is so impressive to me, scoring or assisting every game for your country is something very few can manage.

Even Messi and CR took years to replicate their form on the national stage.

Say you want about international level.... whether its a lower level than club whatever you might be right but its very difficult to be impacting the result of every international in comparison to club.
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Post by FennecFox7 Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:42 pm

Sure CR steals the spotlight at times. But first off jibers, we have better players then man u period. Yet we play scrubs in midfield!!! THAT is the problem! neither benz or cr can get service from the likes of khedira. then we go off and sell ozil, our ONLY creative force in the final third. THAT'S the problem.
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Post by Lord Spencer Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:00 pm

In football, there are no "equations". Not because Rooney became better when CR left that Benzema MUST become better if CR leaves as well. There are many intangibles and variables in both situations that no one can claim that CRs departure would uplift Benz's level.
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Post by sportsczy Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:18 pm

The only guys that do really well for NT are the ones that play a very similar role compared to their club and the NT plays similar tactics. Also helps if the NT teammates are teammates at a certain club.

It's extremely impressive when a player does well for NT and has to play a very different role compared to club.

You only practice for NT a few weeks every year... you practice at your club for almost the entire year.
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Post by sportsczy Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:22 pm

Lord Spencer wrote:In football, there are no "equations". Not because Rooney became better when CR left that Benzema MUST become better if CR leaves as well. There are many intangibles and variables in both situations that no one can claim that CRs departure would uplift Benz's level.
My argument is that benz' level is actually good... but people think his role is one of a primary goalscorer and it is not at Madrid. He's a very expensive facilitator. When Madrid plays well and there are plenty of chances, Benz gets some goals. But when Madrid play poorly and there are few chances, he gets very little because CR7 is the alpha dog and the alpha dog gets to eat first. Right now, we're playing poorly and creating very few chances for our strikers. Guess who is getting the lions share of those few chances...
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Post by Mr Nick09 Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:35 pm

nobody think he is the primary goalscorer, it's obviously CR. but we ask of him that, even when the team doesnt play well, he helps CR carry the attacking burden, that he helps to carve out chances. Despite us not creating much collectively, it's always CR finding himself at the end of crosses... for some weird reasons, CR off the ball movements put him in positions to score, that must be magic.

Benzema clearly doesnt do enough individually to help turn the tide when things arent working for him, actually he does nothing. His stats are good, but his performances do not match his stats. His consistency in the league is shameful. If the team plays well, he will profit. If not, he doesnt shift gears at all. But isnt that the point of being an elite player? to be able to shift gears at will and to make the difference? If we need a CF that will score when all is well we might as well sign Benteke or Michu
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Post by Blue Barrett Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:58 pm

I think this is a confidence issue. Its not like he doesn't have the ability. I've seen this movie before.
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