Karim Benzema

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Post by Blue Barrett Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:58 pm

I think this is a confidence issue. Its not like he doesn't have the ability. I've seen this movie before.

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Post by sportsczy Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:27 pm

Oh yeah I forgot... stats mean nothing.  Performance for a striker is measured with ...  je ne sais quoi Laughing

Everytime an argument gets garbaged... but wait, your forgot "je ne sais quoi"!
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Post by Mr Nick09 Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:39 pm

lol BB, he is paid millions to be confident

@sports, when you say that Suarez only had one good season in england, why do you discount his years at ajax then?

in any case, Burak Yilmaz must be top 5 in europe then, scored 20, 35, 32 in his past three seasons. Burak :bow:

Jozy Altidore scoring 20, 31 at PSV the last two years :bow:

Jackson, 20 and 35 the past two years in south america and portugal

them elite strikers :bow:
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Post by sportsczy Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:41 pm

R u comparing stats compiled in dutch league, Portugal and South America with Real Madrid and CL?  Laughing

Nice.  Don't join any debate team Nick Laughing
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Post by Mr Nick09 Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:43 pm

but you said that only stats matter, what's wrong? if i look by the number of goals scored, which you say is what matters when comparing CF, then we need to sign Burak Yilmaz because the man is on fire.
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Post by Lex Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:44 pm

I always wanted to know how to spell je ne sais quoi and now I do

Sports :bow:
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Post by VanDeezNuts Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:45 pm

No one can question his ability, but his weak mentality is hindering his objective performance- regardless of statistics, he doesn't look comfortable or confident.

How can he get higher confidence? Last season everyone argued it was because he was rotating with higuain and couldnt find form.. well guess what hes the number 1 starter now and has looked worse than last season imo.

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Post by Mr Nick09 Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:45 pm

i am sure we can find a genius goalscorer playing somewhere in the emirates or nearby
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Post by sportsczy Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:45 pm

Stats in elite competition matter a lot more obviously compared to stats while in secondary competitions. Benz is putting up numbers at Madrid and CL.

Nice debating with you Nick.  Keep it up Laughing
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Post by Mr Nick09 Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:48 pm

you understand i am making fun of your argument right?

one minute you say that only stats matter for CFs. Then when presented with players with superior stats, you dismiss then suggesting that it's not all about stat. You just added a new rule, invoking context which you define as "elite competitions".

so your initial argument was wrong? and context do matter? proof by contradiction mate
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Post by sportsczy Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:49 pm

You're actually making yourself look silly Nick... so just stop Laughing

When you are comparing stats... you obviously need comparable competition. EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundi and CL are comparable leagues in terms of competition roughly.

That's why you shouldn't join the debate team. You're counter-arguments are ridiculous. There are counter-arguments... but not the ones you're providing Laughing
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Post by Mr Nick09 Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:55 pm

if being silly is thinking the way players perform, as well as the context in which they perform, matter more than whether or not they appear on the scoring or assist sheet, then i am silly.

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Post by Lord Spencer Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:57 pm

A better argument for stats would be in categorizing the games.

Just as stats in scrub league =/= stats in top league

Stats in scrub games =/= stats in top games

Also, stats by themselves mean little if the goals and assists cam in at the top of a terrible performance.

Overall, we find are a useful tools for measuring a striker, but only if compiled against the backdrop of careful and specific observations.

I am not taking any stance on Benz here BTW, I am just interested in the bipolar assessment he has. Looking at his stats blindly, you would imagine everyone to be singing his praise. Yet, a significant number of people are dismissive of his effort if not talent. This is evidence enough that stats do not a clear picture makes. However, ignoring them is equally biased and unreasonable.
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Post by sportsczy Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:20 pm

exactly... if peeps would come at me saying that Benz wasn't decisive enough in key moments last year.  Then yes, i'd agree.  He had his moments, but they were too few compared to his past.  

Benz' issue is that he goes with the flow too much as opposed to forcing the issue.  Maybe it's him.  Maybe it's by design.  I don't know...  if you're asked to be a flow player most of the time, you can't just turn it on at random moments and go at it differently.  

As far as this year... it's very, very difficult to do anything, positive or negative, without the ball.  Other than long range shots and set pieces, we're not creating anything.

I want to see how Benz performs once we start performing ok in terms of buildup.  You can't really measure anything right now.  He can't pass it to himself.

@Lord Spencer.  That's because Madrid fans are spoiled with R9, Raul and RVN.  Unless our striker performs at that level, he's shat.  Then there are the Higuain fanboys that are butthurt.  You also have a good portion of GL who feed off the distress of others. As soon as someone is suffering with from, it's a feeding frenzy lol.
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Post by Le Samourai Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:49 pm

I think it's a question of the way we play. Players who make regressive decisions see the ball in key positions more than players who make good decisions do. For every 25 touches Ronaldo gets, Benzema gets 5...yet bridging that gap would clearly augment the functioning of the team. He certainly needs to improve, but it will almost always be a question of how involved the team allows him to be.

I had hope with smart guys, Sahin, Alonso, Ozil, Benz, Isco, Higuain, these are players who play the game naturally. They understand when to push and when to build, and ideally, they're who should comprise the team at the moment.

Unfortunately, we have players like Khedira, Di maria, Ronaldo and Modric who all lack that degree of understanding. Modric is a unique case, he's fairly intelligent, put he is also fairly one dimensional and constricting. Just not the midfielder for this team. The other three, Ronaldo lives in his own universe, Khedira simply lacks the requisite skills and Di Maria struggles to find balance.

They all have roles (except perhaps Modric) but in an ideal world, those roles would be far less that they are today. Far too many times I see Ronaldo or Khedira with the ball at their feet, which essentially means the play depends on their next action. Perhaps 25% of the time that action will be natural or have the team in mind.

Still, with Carlo I'll maintain cautious optimism. He seems patient enough to test the immediacy that governs Madrid and risk poor results for the chance of creating steady structure that he's satisfied with. If he maintains it long enough he'll see results on that consistency.

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Post by Valkyrja Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:03 pm

Khedira's ability with the ball is sub-average, but his football IQ is quite high.
Ronaldo has the best off-the-ball movement in football. His runs are incredibly timed and he is rarely caught in offside.

The only retarded players we have are Pepe and Di Maria. Than you have the likes of Marcelo with average football IQ, quite intelligent ones like Ronaldo, Modric, Khedira, Illarra, Iker, and Alonso who is in a class of his own.
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Post by danyjr Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:29 pm

I don't understand how anyone can blame Madrid's recent failures on Cristiano or claim the overrated Algerian is being held back by Cristiano's presence.

Some Madrid fans are so spoilt...
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Post by urbaNRoots Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:35 pm

danyjr wrote:I don't understand how anyone can blame Madrid's recent failures on Cristiano or claim the overrated Algerian is being held back by Cristiano's presence.

Some Madrid fans are so spoilt...
Still waiting you to accept and appreciate G-ru Proud
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Post by danyjr Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:39 pm

Currently I would but I know that ketchup will run out sooner or later Smile
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Post by FennecFox7 Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:39 am

overrated algerian that scores 30+ goals and 20+ assists in a season? lol ok
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Post by Donuts Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:24 am

you'd have to wonder with a player like Ronaldo and Benzema who together score 80 or so goals per season comibined, and 30-40 assists the team would win more huh..

like people said above stats means nothing if the best you can do is 1 la liga and 1 copa de rey.
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Post by FennecFox7 Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:57 am

You can argue they got unlucky in CL and copa where they had to face barca.. i won't go in more so as not to incite an argument :coffee:


Stats do mean everything for a striker.. of course! lol if you don't score you aren't a good CF, period


Last edited by Giggity5313 on Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by chad4401 Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:57 am

I wondered how everyone felt when higs(greatest 9 ever) started both legs of the cl semi and sucked hard, then benzema(stats padder) almost got us to the final on his own, guess that was all in my imagination, bet if cr or higs got the goal and assist it would be reality and worth discussing Laughing
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Post by Arsenalfaithfull Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:17 pm

Madrid you dont need him. Sell him to us Very Happy We have been waiting to see Benzema play under Wenger since 2008. The dream is still alive Proud
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Post by LeSwagg James Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:11 am

Suck it!

The ketchup will start to flow now Proud
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Post by RealGunner Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:57 pm

Hopefully
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