Re: Gerardo 'Tata' Martino

by Donuts Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:00 pm

Disappointed he didn't let more B team players play in the cup match..
Cesc still in false 9

by BarrileteCosmico Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:11 pm

I'm disappointed in his youth promotion in general.

by futbol Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:59 pm

Tata.

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:33 pm

Messi's injury certainly helped, though

by futbol Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:36 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Messi's injury certainly helped, though

Tata injured him by making him press. :bow:

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:59 pm

Can't argue with that. Tata :bow:

by CBarca Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:20 pm

I guess I haven't seen it in a while, but Fab crying about minutes when you look at those numbers Laughing

That's not the point though.

Tata :bow:

by windkick Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:51 am

very impressive numbers!

by free_cat Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:02 am

futbol wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:Messi's injury certainly helped, though

Tata injured him by making him press.

He certainly did. He is not getting injured now that he barely runs, is he?

by danyjr Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:02 pm

futbol wrote:Tata injured him by making him press.

by BarrileteCosmico Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:09 pm

Rumor has it that Messi and Martino are mediating Banega's loan to Newell's hmm

by Donuts Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:29 pm

lol at messi Laughing

by free_cat Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:05 am

We defend better, they said.
Tata is improving our defence, they said.
Tito was a shit coach, they said.
We have more options to break down parked buses, they said.
Man marking is the way to go with set pieces, they said.

by Khaled Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:16 am

free_cat wrote:We defend better, they said.
Tata is improving our defence, they said.
Tito was a shit coach, they said.
We have more options to break down parked buses, they said.
Man marking is the way to go with set pieces, they said.

We're competing in Liga, UCL and the Cup.
We played well in all the big games, beating RM and City.
Until Sociedad defeat we were in prefect position in all 3 competitions. Yes, Tata made a mistake in the game last Sociedad (lineup, late changes etc..) and its a step back but Tata can still fix that mistake in the next 4 Liga games.

In the Cup and UCL we're doing well!

Stop acting as if its all Tata's fault, or as if any other coach would have done better with all the current problems at the club (Rosell resigning, Neymar transfer saga, fail in transfer market etc..)

So far, so good! Waiting for your comments at the end of the season!

by BarcaLearning Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:26 pm

Khaled wrote:
free_cat wrote:We defend better, they said.
Tata is improving our defence, they said.
Tito was a shit coach, they said.
We have more options to break down parked buses, they said.
Man marking is the way to go with set pieces, they said.

We're competing in Liga, UCL and the Cup.
We played well in all the big games, beating RM and City.
Until Sociedad defeat we were in prefect position in all 3 competitions. Yes, Tata made a mistake in the game last Sociedad (lineup, late changes etc..) and its a step back but Tata can still fix that mistake in the next 4 Liga games.

In the Cup and UCL we're doing well!

Stop acting as if its all Tata's fault, or as if any other coach would have done better with all the current problems at the club (Rosell resigning, Neymar transfer saga, fail in transfer market etc..)

So far, so good! Waiting for your comments at the end of the season!

I know what u mean free, and I agree. Everyone always overreacts. And I like spirits of u guys.

Although I feel there is a danger, at this level things can change so fast and seems things are just on a knife's edge. Hope our team remain focused and play at their best for the remainder of the season!

by BarrileteCosmico Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:23 pm

free_cat wrote:1. We defend better, they said.
2. Tata is improving our defence, they said.
3. Tito was a shit coach, they said.
4. We have more options to break down parked buses, they said.
5. Man marking is the way to go with set pieces, they said.

1. We do. A couple of shitty games in February doesn't change that. We already had in January as many clean sheets as last season.
2. He did. See above.
3. Only a small minority said that. Most people here thought that he did a good job until December, especially considering who he was following up. From December onwards there are too many factors to blame it only on Tito.
4. Still think this is true, although mostly because of Nerman and not any tactical decisions.
5. No opinion. Always been weak on these regardless of how we defend them, and with a team of short players we always will.

by danyjr Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:19 pm

Yeah he is not a grade A coach but still better than *bleep* Pito.

by FennecFox7 Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:20 pm

How can any sane person blame this on tata?

The only thing you can blame on him is the bringing in of new defenders, can you honestly to god blame him on that? You guys spent what, like 100m on neymar, which he had no say in, and expect him to have more money to burn on defenders?

Ate man city AT their home ground
He's in the copa final
Still in the liga race

Has to deal with an aging squad, an injured messi, a useless defense, an out of form busquets, a hot and cold iniesta, and its his first year and he has made ZERO personal transfers

Rethink any doubts you have about him. Because mark my words had it been anyone else barca would not even have a CL spot and would be out of both competitions

by The Franchise Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:26 pm

Giggity5313 wrote:How can any sane person blame this on tata?

The only thing you can blame on him is the bringing in of new defenders, can you honestly to god blame him on that? You guys spent what, like 100m on neymar, which he had no say in, and expect him to have more money to burn on defenders?

Ate man city AT their home ground
He's in the copa final
Still in the liga race

Has to deal with an aging squad, an injured messi, a useless defense, an out of form busquets, a hot and cold iniesta, and its his first year and he has made ZERO personal transfers

Rethink any doubts you have about him. Because mark my words had it been anyone else barca would not even have a CL spot and would be out of both competitions

Tata said he didnt want a defender. Perhaps you should education yourself fully on the situation...but fact is, he said he is happy with what he has.

We didnt EAT Man City at anything. Before the Red, it was a nothing performance.

Copa Final? Who cares? Who did we even beat to get there?

Still in the race? In Feb? How lucky we are...we arent out of it yet Rolling Eyes

Mark your words on things which we cant prove. Great idea.

by BarrileteCosmico Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:31 pm

Not to excuse Martino, but it was a group decision. It was painfully clear to everyone that we needed a CB, and with Martino being new to the club Zubi and Rosell should've really said "we respect your opinion, but you're new here and we feel that in order to compete at the highest level a new CB must be brought, which of these options do you like most?" The decision not to bring a CB doesn't rest entirely on his sholders.

by The Franchise Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:54 pm

True, but we all already have established that group sucks. No question, it isnt all on him..but saying we dont need a CB, gives everyone a cop out...saying the truth, is never wrong....and on top of that, Jan just came and went without so much of a whisper.

I felt at the time, and still do...Martino has too much respect for what the players have done previously and their reputations.

Some of them for me, have lost the benefit of the doubt. Many of them, defenders.

I hope he gets another season, regardless of how this one plays out. But he has to be honest and say (even if not publicly) the truth.

I think we can name many coaches, who wouldnt stand for it. Because in the end, Zubi wont take the fall for failure on the pitch...he will. So he better speak up and insist on it...unless, he really believes the squad is fine, which makes me question his competence.

by free_cat Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:16 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
free_cat wrote:1. We defend better, they said.
2. Tata is improving our defence, they said.
3. Tito was a shit coach, they said.
4. We have more options to break down parked buses, they said.
5. Man marking is the way to go with set pieces, they said.

1. We do. A couple of shitty games in February doesn't change that. We already had in January as many clean sheets as last season.
2. He did. See above.
3. Only a small minority said that. Most people here thought that he did a good job until December, especially considering who he was following up. From December onwards there are too many factors to blame it only on Tito.
4. Still think this is true, although mostly because of Nerman and not any tactical decisions.
5. No opinion. Always been weak on these regardless of how we defend them, and with a team of short players we always will.

1. False. Defence was equally bad but our goals against was fluking it thanks to opposition missing clear chances and Valdes being in the best form of his life. Now that Valdes is back to normal and opposition is not missing, we are back to a same goalscoring record.
2. Instead of improving defence (and our general play), our form has been erratic or unimproving.
3. Ok.
4. We are the team that has scored the most counterattack goals in the league, and struggle most than ever vs. park the buses.
5. We have conceded more set pieces goals than ever.

Also: Martino needs time to instal his sistem and team will improve with time, they said (when we are actually going backwards).

by The Franchise Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:09 am

I look at what for example Martinez has done to change Everton, and did so in a very short time...and dont buy Martino needs more time to improve the system/to get the players up to speed.

By now, the base of what we will be and should look like is there and it probably is.

by futbol Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:57 am

Yeah, but Martinez has also added lots of new faces to form his own team. Lukaku, McCarthy, Barry, Barkley, Deulofeu.

It's also much easier to improve a midtable team that was coached by Moyes prior than improving "the best team of all time" that was playing the perfect football and now has lots of aging stars that have won it all multiple times.

I don't see a lot that can be changed with the current player material. Messi has to play (and in the center). Iniesta has to play. Busquets has to play. Neymar has to play. What options does that give you? 4-3-3 and that's it. You can rotate Alexis and Pedro on the right wing. You can rotate Song, Cesc and Xavi for the third midfield spot. You can rotate Adriano and Alba for LB. Style-wise not much.

Tactically you can't mess up too much once those players who have played together since childhood are on the pitch at the same time in the same formation. Only details. We beat Milan 4-0 and played our best game of the season with Roura in charge. Laughing

More blame should go to the player material, not the coach. I highly doubt if Pep came back this current team would suddenly go back to 10/11-esque football which would elevate Messi, Xavi, Iniesta to the Ballon d'Or podium.

by The Franchise Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:02 am

No question, but we already been over that. He needs to insist on changes, not tow party lines by saying "we dont need anyone".

I also wasnt talking about improving the team or results, I was only talking about instituting a style of play. Martinez and others have shown they can do that, Martino hasnt really.

Or perhaps he has, but the difference is not a positive one.

My problem is not the formation or anything so trivial, formation isnt nearly as important as the basics. Which I am afraid are inconsistent.

The blame is obviously shared, not one or the other.

In the end, he will be judged by what he has done, not what he could of done with different players. And again, he needs to insist on changes, unless he believes the team is fine.

by futbol Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:39 am

I don't believe for a second he thinks this team is complete. It was just a set phrase. He has said that shortly after his arrival because he was probably told by the board that they don't have the money to invest much more after Nerman. Neither did he have the time to analyse the squad so quickly to make huge demands.

Once again, changing the Barcelona style to the better is not as easy as implementing some pass and move over Moyes' dinosaur template. Players dictate tactics. How Barcelona play is already set in stone once Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta and Messi step onto the pitch. You can change minor details. Playing a higher line or sitting deeper, playing Messi as a #10 or letting him roam upfront like a #9, pressing very high or midfield pressing, telling the wingers to come inside or stay wide. But overall you can't change too much in terms of style.

What Martino has changed is obvious IMO. He wants to sit a bit deeper to eliminate space behind our slow defense and midfield to prevent counterattacks. In return, once we sit deeper and start pressing a bit later and not around the edge of the opponent's box it gives us space for counterattacks once we win the ball back. If I'm not mistaken we are the team that has scored the most amount of counterattacking goals in Europe so far. Messi's penalty against City a fine example of that 1 pass direct move. Or this:

Of course it has its disadvantages. When we sit deeper and don't cut out the danger as soon as possible our midfield and defense is too weak defensively. We are also too weak to win second balls. So we chase the ball. I believe Martino would prefer a combative midfielder, a proper centerback and a #9 to make this style work. But, yeah. He doesn't have any of that to make this function to its fullest yet.

I think he will resign at the end of the season by the way. I don't think he will get the players he needs. Nor do the current crop seem to like what he wants to do. They just want to play tiki-taka until death.

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