Why are the English terrible at football?

Sports madrid play awful football ffs. Bilbao played like thugs before Bielsa and hoofed a lot. fml what am i reading in here. madrid? Positive football.



Sit back and counter. They play EPL football ffs.

Sociedad played negatively till they threatened their manager lol.

did you even read my post jibers

The football in the PL is a myth anyway as is the youth system myth.

The real problem is the lack of quality english coaches from grassroots right up to PL level.

Sevilla hardly play great football, either. It's just basically spamming the flanks and hoping that Negredo or Rakitic gets on the end of something.

Style of football isn't the problem. Hodgson has shown, at the very least, a willingness to change style, as we've gone from a very rigid 4-4-2 in the Euros to a more progressive 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1, with more emphasis on passing than on direct football. Linekar's recent dark ages comment was way, way off the mark. (Michael Cox did some analysis on how England set-up).

We'll become a better national team if that sort of style of play becomes a norm rather than an exception and some of our younger players get the necessary game time somewhere to develop. I mean, something like...


...is a decent set-up.

Yes, they were very terrible.


Oh Gosh~ Ended tie. 1-1.

GoonerJay29 wrote:

Carrick - Cleverley

Walcott - Wilshere - Sturridge

Rooney

...is a decent set-up.

Yeah it doesn't look too bad. The problem is depth though, once you scratch below the surface, and a few of those key players get injured, it quickly devolves into second/third rate as international standards go. The likes of Spain, germany, could get injuries into double digits and still play quality football.

We will have to wait a few years to see if English youngsters can integrate themselves into the PL and provide a larger talent pool. Atm if Rooney isn't fit, the next replacement is light years away from his level, the same goes for wilshere, in terms of attack they are the only two that make the England team even respectable amongst the elite

Gil wrote:Hell the Germans even play the long ball more than we do!

Well, our long balls at least usually find the proper targets, though. ^^

LuckAndWin wrote:Yes, they were very terrible.

Using traditional German kits just doesn't suffice

It wouldnt hurt for there youths to get loaned out to other clubs across Europe. Learn from other managers and what not. Instead they just sit around and stay stale while players from across Europe get to play everywhere and experience so many things

windkick wrote:It wouldnt hurt for there youths to get loaned out to other clubs across Europe. Learn from other managers and what not. Instead they just sit around and stay stale while players from across Europe get to play everywhere and experience so many things

Do any teams across Europe WANT young English players?
Doesn't seem so...

izzy wrote:Do any teams across Europe WANT young English players?
Doesn't seem so...

I think I remember that a while ago Bayern wanted to sign up Leighton Baines, but he declined, citing he'd get homesick as reason.

That EPL is a hoof ball, tactics-less, long ball league myth needs to die.

Spanish league has the lowest passing accuracy (77.5 per cent) of the big five leagues.

Bundesliga has the highest percentage of long passes (14.2 per cent) out of the five leagues. Also has the most fouls per game (31.7) on average.

Premier League has the lowest percentage of long passes (12.06 per cent) than any of the big five leagues. It also has the fewest fouls per game

izzy wrote:

windkick wrote:It wouldnt hurt for there youths to get loaned out to other clubs across Europe. Learn from other managers and what not. Instead they just sit around and stay stale while players from across Europe get to play everywhere and experience so many things

Do any teams across Europe WANT young English players?
Doesn't seem so...

There is an 19 year old English CB playing for Sporting Lisbon.

rwo power wrote:

izzy wrote:Do any teams across Europe WANT young English players?
Doesn't seem so...

I think I remember that a while ago Bayern wanted to sign up Leighton Baines, but he declined, citing he'd get homesick as reason.

Exactomundo.

Its not English players are not wanted by teams abroad its just English players are very much against the idea to go abroad for various different reasons.

If this changed i have no doubt that many different European clubs would be after Englands finest.

Lets put it this way if Wilshere came available and wanted to try his luck abroad?

Does anyone really think clubs would reject him? of course not they would flock like seagulls to the beach.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

rwo power wrote:

izzy wrote:Do any teams across Europe WANT young English players?
Doesn't seem so...

I think I remember that a while ago Bayern wanted to sign up Leighton Baines, but he declined, citing he'd get homesick as reason.

Exactomundo.

Its not English players are not wanted by teams abroad its just English players are very much against the idea to go abroad for various different reasons.

If this changed i have no doubt that many different European clubs would be after Englands finest.

Lets put it this way if Wilshere came available and wanted to try his luck abroad?

Does anyone really think clubs would reject him? of course not they would flock like seagulls to the beach.

They would take Wilshere NOW, I don't know if they would have taken him in his early teens...
Hindsight and all.

I still think they would tbh, thing is England is full of Jesus Navas lol.

A lot of English people, young people especially hate being away from home.

They struggle to adapt to that scenario maybe even more so than any other nation.

Its a shame because it would be great to see more English players abroad but i can't see it happening.

English youth teams aren't a myth. There is a serious crisis in the way methods are taught. Go to typical English youth camp and you'll see managers favour the ones who are taller, stronger and more physically developed than his peers. By the time that youth reaches his peak, others catch up eventually rendering the taller, stronger and more physically developed individual to useless considering most English camps do not focus on technique, but age old methods of memorization similar to the broken O-A Level GCSE systems. Schools of thought aren't there since they don't have the pedigree, hence why there is a modern adaptation of the godawful Coerver method in most English camps which teaches tricks and skills but you end up turning into an Adam Johnson.

Managers of course play a part yet their priorities of focus on a youth's development are usually wrong and focused on work ethic and physical superiority. Which is admirable and all yet it isn't enough in Football.

Teams like Liverpool, Chelsea, City, Villa and Arsenal are taken cautious steps to the right direction yet not enough to cover the whole English academia of production and what is wrong with it.

That being said, English National Team are full of wonderful players, sadly they hired the worlds most incompatent and backwards manager in Roy Hodgson because he is "experienced" "won in Scandanavia" and is a "Good Man" (LOL)

His team aren't bad to watch yet not exactly scintillating tactically or aesthetically either. Not only that, he is capable of creating f**k all and doesn't look to the future beyond his short-sighted dinosaur methods. England deserve a better manager who has actually won something of note, instead of a guy who sent out Roberto Carlos from Inter because he doesn't have "grit" Or benching Danny Agger because he "wouldn't get f**king rid" of the ball.

I still think EPL football is dire to watch as it lacks the tactical approaches of other leagues and is quite brainless yet it can be exciting at times.

Whats funny is people don't mention Bundesliga whose football is far worse than EPL. Outside Dortmund, Bayern, Eintracht and Augsburg (who are gone) their football is worse than having your tooth pulled out with a rusted scalpel.

As for the La Liga argument. No debate there as the football there is simply ahead of the rest.

Well, for moving to the BL, they might not want to try and study German. Albeit the players that did find the courage like Kevin Keegan or Paul Lambert* never regretted their move. (The latter even decided to do his coaching badges in Germany, which I really salute. I hope he'll be able to insert some of the stuff he learned there in his teams.)

*) Eep! I just realised he's Scottish... Nevermind!

Arquitescu wrote:English youth teams aren't a myth. There is a serious crisis in the way methods are taught. Go to typical English youth camp and you'll see managers favour the ones who are taller, stronger and more physically developed than his peers. By the time that youth reaches his peak, others catch up eventually rendering the taller, stronger and more physically developed individual to useless considering most English camps do not focus on technique, but age old methods of memorization similar to the broken O-A Level GCSE systems. Schools of thought aren't there since they don't have the pedigree, hence why there is a modern adaptation of the godawful Coerver method in most English camps which teaches tricks and skills but you end up turning into an Adam Johnson. Managers of course play a part yet their priorities of focus on a youth's development are usually wrong and focused on work ethic and physical superiority. Which is admirable and all yet it isn't enough in Football.

I can confirm that's true. Have experienced that myself that coaches at under 13-14-15 level prefers the big strong lads over the smaller ones. However the good thing is that it's getting less frequent. It still exists but other clubs are slowly eradicating that. For example the english teams were technically all sound in the Next Gen tournament. But the problem remains that will those players be brought on in the right manner ?

Great post Arq

I think there is a Rafa Benitez article on how to improve English youth system.

He says lack of Philosophy,Youth system and good coaches as the reason for England not producing enough top players. He also says reserve league adds nothing and prefers a spanish/german model B teams in competitive leagues.

got it.

http://www.rafabenitez.com/web/index.php?act=mostrarBlog&id_entrada=46&idioma=in

Rafa.

Major reason why LFC academy has vastly improved.. 5 years back it was pretty below average.

The only reason more English kids aren't being scouted is because they don't have "inho" in their names

How many young Spaniards, Germans, Italians, etc. actually go abroad, though? Obviously a few do but the trend is for young players to actually stay and develop within the country of their birth.

Even if you go through the senior teams now, they're all predominantly home-based. It's only the nations that have smaller leagues that have squads made up of foreign-based players for example Portugal, The Netherlands and Belgium and none of those nations are any more successful than England.

His team aren't bad to watch yet not exactly scintillating tactically or aesthetically either. Not only that, he is capable of creating f**k all and doesn't look to the future beyond his short-sighted dinosaur methods. England deserve a better manager who has actually won something of note, instead of a guy who sent out Roberto Carlos from Inter because he doesn't have "grit" Or benching Danny Agger because he "wouldn't get f**king rid" of the ball.

You mean like Capello?

I can't agree about him not looking to the future. In his year in charge, he's given caps to the likes of Butland, Forster, Jenkinson, Chamberlain, Sterling and Cleverley and has called up McCarthy and Lallana where another manager may have just called up Paul Robinson, Gareth Barry and Shaun Wright-Phillips.

In fact, when everyone is fit again, the squad is going to have an unprecedented number of young players: Butland, Jones, Smalling, Gibbs, Walker, Wilshere, Cleverley, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Sterling, Sturridge, Welbeck...

In any case, I believe Hodgson to only be here to pick up the pieces from the last generation and oversee the transition to the next. I doubt he'll still be manager after the World Cup unless he works a miracle and gets us to a semi-final or something (of course, we still have to qualify first).

He also says reserve league adds nothing and prefers a spanish/german model B teams in competitive leagues.

Actually integrating something like that is a lot easier said than done, though.

Incidentally, he advocated an U21 League which we now have.

RealGunner wrote:

Arquitescu wrote:English youth teams aren't a myth. There is a serious crisis in the way methods are taught. Go to typical English youth camp and you'll see managers favour the ones who are taller, stronger and more physically developed than his peers. By the time that youth reaches his peak, others catch up eventually rendering the taller, stronger and more physically developed individual to useless considering most English camps do not focus on technique, but age old methods of memorization similar to the broken O-A Level GCSE systems. Schools of thought aren't there since they don't have the pedigree, hence why there is a modern adaptation of the godawful Coerver method in most English camps which teaches tricks and skills but you end up turning into an Adam Johnson. Managers of course play a part yet their priorities of focus on a youth's development are usually wrong and focused on work ethic and physical superiority. Which is admirable and all yet it isn't enough in Football.

I can confirm that's true. Have experienced that myself that coaches at under 13-14-15 level prefers the big strong lads over the smaller ones. However the good thing is that it's getting less frequent. It still exists but other clubs are slowly eradicating that. For example the english teams were technically all sound in the Next Gen tournament. But the problem remains that will those players be brought on in the right manner ?

Absolutely RG.

Of course there is improvement! English teams have slowly tried to bring a semblance of certainty within their development as that stability it will result in a consistent evolution of their identity, fuelled on the blueprint of England's signature work ethic and mentality. Mole has a point in saying the managers are missing to continually guide the English youth in order to surmount their potential. There is no need for foreign managers. English managers simply need to adapt and hybrid tactical blueprints with other schools of thought. BR (though Irish) did this by spending time in Netherlands, Espana etc with his own teachings of old English football.

Eventually by ergonomic gradual, England will form the identity which has been brought upon through trial and error, import of philosophies and EPL's multicultural mosaic which adds to the culture itself (though very very slowly) as which is why English youth have exploded this season. Next-Gen is just one example, teams like the ones I mentioned above and of course Arsenal who have Wilshere, Jenkinson, Gibbs, Chambo, and Walcott who has improved leaps and bounds.

Problems are still there, as are with any country. The stubbornness within English managers, hindrances, favouritism through media onto a certain individual, English media themselves, cultural habits and the evolution of Modern England can play its part.

Yet the signs are there, all there, of a consistent progress to an England, given a platform by EPL's improved attitude to their youth.

Bought in the right manner? Who says they have to move out. There is a reason why Italians prefer to stay in Italia, same goes for England. Why move out of your home league when its among the top? Managers, the main problem along with the nascent stage youth camps MUST be more consistent in strategy to develop English youth, their utilization and augmentation of their respective potential.

Top teams are leading this path through their individual crafted philosophies, mid to lower teams now need to follow their example even if it costs them financially.

Point must be made, without Wenger, this whole England youth re-development would have been 10 years behind. People need to realize the effect he has had on the EPL