Re: Why are the English terrible at football?

by BarrileteCosmico Wed May 29, 2013 11:03 pm

Arquitescu wrote:Dutch speaking of terrible football when they haven't won a World Cup compared to England and have a 2nd rate league compared to the PL.

Not the best position to criticize English Football no matter how ugly it is.

Well, tbf, England shouldn't have a WC and they've only gone past semi finals 2 times in history, compared to the dutch reaching 3 finals and getting to semis 4 times.

Spoiler:

by Jay29 Wed May 29, 2013 11:05 pm

The football we play now is a whole lot better than the football we played under Cappello, and he arguably had a better selection of players to choose from. It's not the greatest and there's a ton of work that needs to be done, but I saw very little tonight that made me think "why are we terrible at football?".

This same discussion happens after every England result. People need to realise that things aren't going to drastically change in a year and that old attitudes and ideals aren't going to instantly disappear. England's pool of talent isn't so diverse that we can just instantly play a different way and be successful, so Hodgson has to make do with what's there. It'd be the same for any manager who aspires to play progressive football with his team, no matter how good he is.

Talent-wise, we're in transition. Some of our better players in the past - Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard - are getting older and there aren't many players who can instantly replace those guys. We haven't got any outstanding centre backs we can call upon and a lot of midfield talent consists of young players who still developing like Cleverley and Wilshere.

Whether this situation will improve or not is impossible to tell at this stage. Give it five or so years and we'll have a better idea of how things are going. For now, we can only make do with what's there and take some minor encouragement from the fact that there are actually some kids coming through who have both intelligence and good technique.

by Arquitecto Wed May 29, 2013 11:12 pm

hmmm. Ajax outplayed your champions last season both home and away in the champions league. The Eredivisie suffers because there is no money and all our talent are poached. We haven't won a world cup but our football is what has influenced teams such as your Milan side under Saachi, Barcelona and Bayern Munchen of late. Even Dortmund follow our methods. We left a legacy in both tactics, footballing principles and philosophy. We have had a bigger mark on footballs evolution than any other nation in the sport. I expected much better from you Arquitecto.

I am guessing the name change is a signal of a shift in your once great self. Only a matter of time before the negativity of Calcio ate away at your logic.

I don't support EPL or English football, Clockwork. In fact I think English football is absolute garbage despite me supporting Liverpool FC.

Take my jabs at your league light as its in pure intent of light banter. Yet your idea that Sacchi's Milan and Heynckes Bayern is influenced by the Dutch is way off the mark. Sacchi's Milan was merely a modern modification of Nereo Rocco's Milan with his own personal inceptions to the tactical output. Bayern? Watch Heynckes Athletic Bilbao or BMG. Had his teams playing the exact same way which are influences of Basque football with modern German influences. This idea that this is van Gaal's team has got to cease given LvG was a tactical fraud who's outdated tactics had him destroyed by superior tacticians with more complex systematics on a constant basis.

Dortmund Dutch influences? Ottmar Hitzfeld says Hi. Arrigo Sacchi says hi. Their influences. Nothing to do with the Dutch.

Calcio negativity? Mate this isn't the 70s. Italian Calcio is full of attacking teams as we've been through this before.

My nickname was changed out of a bet, not personal intent.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed May 29, 2013 11:14 pm

Well Clockwork you sort of answered your own question in your original post.

The country hasn't moved forward since god knows how long and have coaches that are stuck in the past.

The very few that are not such as Hoddle, Venables or Keegan are either too old now or just the FA refuse to work with them. ( funny enough all 3 of them worked and played) in Europe

The whole thing starts at the bottom and it stinks to high heaven, the only decent coaches in Britain are Irish or Scottish.

There are movements to come in line with the rest of continent at grass roots level but as Spain found out in the 80s this sort of thing takes decades to build up.

We do produce talent but what is the point if the coaches don't know how to get best of said talent?

by RealGunner Wed May 29, 2013 11:14 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:The football we play now is a whole lot better than the football we played under Cappello, and he arguably had a better selection of players to choose from. It's not the greatest and there's a ton of work that needs to be done, but I saw very little tonight that made me think "why are we terrible at football?".

This same discussion happens after every England result. People need to realise that things aren't going to drastically change in a year and that old attitudes and ideals aren't going to instantly disappear. England's pool of talent isn't so diverse that we can just instantly play a different way and be successful, so Hodgson has to make do with what's there. It'd be the same for any manager who aspires to play progressive football with his team, no matter how good he is.

Talent-wise, we're in transition. Some of our better players in the past - Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard - are getting older and there aren't many players who can instantly replace those guys. We haven't got any outstanding centre backs we can call upon and a lot of midfield talent consists of young players who still developing like Cleverley and Wilshere.

Whether this situation will improve or not is impossible to tell at this stage. Give it five or so years and we'll have a better idea of how things are going. For now, we can only make do with what's there and take some minor encouragement from the fact that there are actually some kids coming through who have both intelligence and good technique.

+1

I don't understand what was so terrible about tonight ? England didn't hoof, the passing wasn't bad. Most of the players gave up after the 60th minute because of fatigue.

It wasn't a great game of football but England didn't play "terrible" by any means

by RealGunner Wed May 29, 2013 11:14 pm

Clockwork Orange wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Coaching is awful, there's more to it than that but our coaches from top to bottom are horrendous.

Why is it so bad Great Leader? As usual your knowledge on such matters comes to the forefront in such debates. You continue to illuminate this forum whos light is slowly but surely fading away.

LMFAO

by BarrileteCosmico Wed May 29, 2013 11:21 pm

For the record I don't think its as bad as everyone thinks. I think there are several academies in England that emphasize technique and love for the ball (Liverpool and City to name but two) but these changes will only be seen 10, 15 years from now. England's football has become more continental every year and now the top teams look for technical qualities, it's only a matter of time before this starts showing more in their homegrown players and coaches.

by Clockwork Orange Wed May 29, 2013 11:25 pm

Arquitescu wrote:
hmmm. Ajax outplayed your champions last season both home and away in the champions league. The Eredivisie suffers because there is no money and all our talent are poached. We haven't won a world cup but our football is what has influenced teams such as your Milan side under Saachi, Barcelona and Bayern Munchen of late. Even Dortmund follow our methods. We left a legacy in both tactics, footballing principles and philosophy. We have had a bigger mark on footballs evolution than any other nation in the sport. I expected much better from you Arquitecto.

I am guessing the name change is a signal of a shift in your once great self. Only a matter of time before the negativity of Calcio ate away at your logic.

I don't support EPL or English football, Clockwork. In fact I think English football is absolute garbage despite me supporting Liverpool FC.

Take my jabs at your league light as its in pure intent of light banter. Yet your idea that Sacchi's Milan and Heynckes Bayern is influenced by the Dutch is way off the mark. Sacchi's Milan was merely a modern modification of Nereo Rocco's Milan with his own personal inceptions to the tactical output. Bayern? Watch Heynckes Athletic Bilbao or BMG. Had his teams playing the exact same way which are influences of Basque football with modern German influences. This idea that this is van Gaal's team has got to cease given LvG was a tactical fraud who's outdated tactics had him destroyed by superior tacticians with more complex systematics on a constant basis.

Dortmund Dutch influences? Ottmar Hitzfeld says Hi. Arrigo Sacchi says hi. Their influences. Nothing to do with the Dutch.

Calcio negativity? Mate this isn't the 70s. Italian Calcio is full of attacking teams as we've been through this before.

My nickname was changed out of a bet, not personal intent.

Hmmm. Actually Arquitecto, The pressing that Saachi utilised was inspired by Michels Ajax and he mentioned this everytime in interviews. Nerro Roccowas one of thepioneers of Catenaccio and Saachi is one of the few Italian coaches that manged to do away with that negative tactic. It is no coincidence that his style was spearheaded by Sir Marco, Rijkaard and Ruud Guillit, two of which are from Jong Ajax. He even said that with those three he was able to perfect his style. Rijkaard even said in an interview with a Ducth magazine that Cruyff and Sacchi were very similar and followed simlar attacking chanels. What you in fact posted is in fact very untrue. The positional play by Bayern was taaght by van Gaal, although I agree van Gaal is too rigid tactically and was found out by the king of anti-football in Mourniho. The pressing and the organistaion is Dutch in it's very essence. German football and Dutch football share many similarities, but the introduction of the pressing and the positional play are most definately influences from our culture.

by VendettaRed07 Wed May 29, 2013 11:26 pm

players aren't really given a chance to develop or succeed at a high level like others. Teams in england can get a player from any country in the entire world, so if you are trying to win why bother trying to develop the young english players when you can buy a foreign player who is already good and can help you out instantly. Not to mention that its financially unrealistic to buy english players because a similar player from another country that is just as good if not better will cost half as much.

The bigger clubs tend to buy any of the quality english players that the lower tier teams develop but its rarely because its ACTUALLY the player they need, but rather just to do it because they are english. They the ones that start out good end up getting misused/ ruined.

obviously their are exceptions, but thats what their team is right now, a team full of exceptions. A handful of good players that managed to shine through the horrible conditions they have been brought up through.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed May 29, 2013 11:28 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:For the record I don't think its as bad as everyone thinks. I think there are several academies in England that emphasize technique and love for the ball (Liverpool and City to name but two) but these changes will only be seen 10, 15 years from now. England's football has become more continental every year and now the top teams look for technical qualities, it's only a matter of time before this starts showing more in their homegrown players and coaches.

That isn't the problem though.... the problem is there is zero capable English candidates to get the most out the these players for the national team.

The talent is there, that is obvious but the coaches/managers to make it work on the internatonal stage is not.

I mean Stuart f*cking Pearce is still U21 head coach ffs.

by Lupi Wed May 29, 2013 11:33 pm

should Beckham start managing teams? albino

and why people love to hate England and how on earth An Argentina fan Defends England Shocked

by Jay29 Wed May 29, 2013 11:33 pm

To be frank, I feel the discussion about coaching is a pointless one. It's not great. We know that and it's pointless to linger on that fact. Unfortunately, we won't know the extent of the improvements for a long while.

A bigger concern for me right now is the lack of young English talent playing in the Premier League. In our current U21 squad, there are very promising players like Nathaniel Chalobah and Josh McEachran but last season they played in the Championship. Comparatively, Spain have guys like Koke and Illarramendi who have played week-in-week-out for clubs in the top five of La Liga and the Dutch have Claisie, Maher and Strootman who play for the top clubs in the Eredivisie.

Not even midtable and lower table clubs make use of English talent. Southampton, at least, regularly played Luke Shaw, Nathaniel Clyne and Adam Lallana, but the likes of West Brom, Fulham, West Ham, Stoke, etc. seem to look outside the league for most of their transfers.

The top clubs in the league have good English talents just sitting on the bench or playing a squad role. Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Nick Powell, Ross Barkley, Tom Carroll, Steven Caulker, Jonjo Shelvey, Carl Jenkinson... if they're not playing for the top clubs, they're not playing at all. I worry that they'll not break into the first teams of the top clubs and be sold at 22/23 when they'll won't develop as much.

by Arquitecto Wed May 29, 2013 11:36 pm

Clockwork Orange wrote:
Arquitescu wrote:
hmmm. Ajax outplayed your champions last season both home and away in the champions league. The Eredivisie suffers because there is no money and all our talent are poached. We haven't won a world cup but our football is what has influenced teams such as your Milan side under Saachi, Barcelona and Bayern Munchen of late. Even Dortmund follow our methods. We left a legacy in both tactics, footballing principles and philosophy. We have had a bigger mark on footballs evolution than any other nation in the sport. I expected much better from you Arquitecto.

I am guessing the name change is a signal of a shift in your once great self. Only a matter of time before the negativity of Calcio ate away at your logic.

I don't support EPL or English football, Clockwork. In fact I think English football is absolute garbage despite me supporting Liverpool FC.

Take my jabs at your league light as its in pure intent of light banter. Yet your idea that Sacchi's Milan and Heynckes Bayern is influenced by the Dutch is way off the mark. Sacchi's Milan was merely a modern modification of Nereo Rocco's Milan with his own personal inceptions to the tactical output. Bayern? Watch Heynckes Athletic Bilbao or BMG. Had his teams playing the exact same way which are influences of Basque football with modern German influences. This idea that this is van Gaal's team has got to cease given LvG was a tactical fraud who's outdated tactics had him destroyed by superior tacticians with more complex systematics on a constant basis.

Dortmund Dutch influences? Ottmar Hitzfeld says Hi. Arrigo Sacchi says hi. Their influences. Nothing to do with the Dutch.

Calcio negativity? Mate this isn't the 70s. Italian Calcio is full of attacking teams as we've been through this before.

My nickname was changed out of a bet, not personal intent.

Hmmm. Actually Arquitecto, The pressing that Saachi utilised was inspired by Michels Ajax and he mentioned this everytime in interviews. Nerro Roccowas one of thepioneers of Catenaccio and Saachi is one of the few Italian coaches that manged to do away with that negative tactic. It is no coincidence that his style was spearheaded by Sir Marco, Rijkaard and Ruud Guillit, two of which are from Jong Ajax. He even said that with those three he was able to perfect his style. Rijkaard even said in an interview with a Ducth magazine that Cruyff and Sacchi were very similar and followed simlar attacking chanels. What you in fact posted is in fact very untrue. The positional play by Bayern was taaght by van Gaal, although I agree van Gaal is too rigid tactically and was found out by the king of anti-football in Mourniho. The pressing and the organistaion is Dutch in it's very essence. German football and Dutch football share many similarities, but the introduction of the pressing and the positional play are most definately influences from our culture.

Nereo Rocco was one of the pioneers of Catenaccio yet consistently evolved his team into a blueprint for pressing teams as his basic structure in attacking intent was used by Sacchi while Dutch components were added within off the ball structure to compliment tactics. Sacchi's Milan was more of a synonymous blend of different eras which combined ideas from Ajax, Torino, and Sacchi's personal implementations rather than influenced by one sole school of thought.

van Gaal's tactical blueprint is long gone from this Bayern. Ribery's complete change in positioning and increased inside forward role and overlap with Alaba, Thomas Mueller's role, Schweinsteiger being used as a tactical component rather than being built around, Javi Martinez use as a Erdiko, Toni Kroos being used in a Modern #10 role. His Bayern shares little to no resemblance to van Gaal's blueprint as the positional references are closer to his BMG & Athletic Bilbao than Dutch principle.

Basques, Bavarians and Balkans have been using a similar pressing system long before the Dutch have. Misconceptions are a plenty when analysing origins of football. The Dutch merely used it to its best method and optimized upon it. Doesn't mean they pioneered it.

by Tomwin Lannister Wed May 29, 2013 11:36 pm

Ajax fan talking about doping rofl

Clockwork you're a clown, nobody takes you seriously because most of what you do is now irrelevant. Much like your team. As you said, a dog mirrors its master. Proud

by Pedram Wed May 29, 2013 11:50 pm

RealGunner wrote:
Clockwork Orange wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Coaching is awful, there's more to it than that but our coaches from top to bottom are horrendous.

Why is it so bad Great Leader? As usual your knowledge on such matters comes to the forefront in such debates. You continue to illuminate this forum whos light is slowly but surely fading away.

LMFAO

He has a very unique writing style for sure. Laughing

by timzink Thu May 30, 2013 12:33 am

VendettaRed07 wrote:
obviously their are exceptions, but thats what their team is right now, a team full of exceptions. A handful of good players that managed to shine through the horrible conditions they have been brought up through.

I actually agree with most of what your wrote but I disagree with this . Players dont play under horrible conditions. Some of the academies these players come through are more modern than some R&D centers and alot of young players, particularly those at academies at the bigger clubs get paid quite alot of money .

As GoonerJay said, this is an England team in transition .

Hopefully we will start seeing more english players starting in the premier league .
I also think that its a pity that some of the sharpest tactical minds that have played in english football dont go or stay in management . players like lee dixon, gareth southgate, gary neville ( i know he works with the england team but i would love to see him manage a club side, he could start small at somewhere like wigan )

by DuringTheWar Thu May 30, 2013 12:53 am

Gary Neville is working as a coach for the England team. As of yet his touch screen antics have failed to turn the players into total footballers.

by VendettaRed07 Thu May 30, 2013 1:03 am

It was a bit of an exaggeration Razz

but I just mean I just think that the current system the way players are developed and selected is broken. A lot of the time players are set up to fail, players are bought for crazy prices putting all sorts of pressure on them for a big club that doesn't really even need a player with their exact attributes just wanted someone english. or atleast thats how it seems to shake out most of the time. But if they aren't put in that situation or don't get picked up but United, City, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Newcastle or Everton, odds of them making the national team are close to zero. That might seem like a long list of teams, but when each of them only really has like.. 3 or 4 english players at most that get any sort of playing time, thats not a whole lot to choose from.

They are in transition now and the team is moving forward, but they are still several steps behind all of the other great countries now imo. A lot more has to change before they are among the best again

by Arquitecto Thu May 30, 2013 1:06 am

VendettaRed07 wrote:It was a bit of an exaggeration but I just mean I just think that the current system the way players are developed and selected is broken. A lot of the time players are set up to fail, players are bought for crazy prices putting all sorts of pressure on them for a big club that doesn't really even need a player with their exact attributes just wanted someone english. or atleast thats how it seems to shake out most of the time. But if they aren't put in that situation or don't get picked up but United, City, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Newcastle or Everton, odds of them making the national team are close to zero. That might seem like a long list of teams, but when each of them only really has like.. 3 or 4 english players at most that get any sort of playing time, thats not a whole lot to choose from.

They are in transition now and the team is moving forward, but they are still several steps behind all of the other great countries now imo. A lot more has to change before they are among the best again

Shenmue

I've been waiting since I was 10 years old for Part III.

Yu Suzuki has deceived us all.

by VendettaRed07 Thu May 30, 2013 1:11 am

Arquitescu wrote:
VendettaRed07 wrote:It was a bit of an exaggeration but I just mean I just think that the current system the way players are developed and selected is broken. A lot of the time players are set up to fail, players are bought for crazy prices putting all sorts of pressure on them for a big club that doesn't really even need a player with their exact attributes just wanted someone english. or atleast thats how it seems to shake out most of the time. But if they aren't put in that situation or don't get picked up but United, City, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Newcastle or Everton, odds of them making the national team are close to zero. That might seem like a long list of teams, but when each of them only really has like.. 3 or 4 english players at most that get any sort of playing time, thats not a whole lot to choose from.

They are in transition now and the team is moving forward, but they are still several steps behind all of the other great countries now imo. A lot more has to change before they are among the best again

Shenmue

I've been waiting since I was 10 years old for Part III.

Yu Suzuki has deceived us all.

Heavy rumors about a third one getting announced as soon as this e3 :bow:

I posted about it in the gaming and sports section in the e3 thread, but for now I will remain cautiously optimistic lol. I don't even know what I'd do if they actually made it at this point. It seemed so hopeless for so long.

by Arquitecto Thu May 30, 2013 1:13 am

VendettaRed07 wrote:
Arquitescu wrote:
VendettaRed07 wrote:It was a bit of an exaggeration but I just mean I just think that the current system the way players are developed and selected is broken. A lot of the time players are set up to fail, players are bought for crazy prices putting all sorts of pressure on them for a big club that doesn't really even need a player with their exact attributes just wanted someone english. or atleast thats how it seems to shake out most of the time. But if they aren't put in that situation or don't get picked up but United, City, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Newcastle or Everton, odds of them making the national team are close to zero. That might seem like a long list of teams, but when each of them only really has like.. 3 or 4 english players at most that get any sort of playing time, thats not a whole lot to choose from.

They are in transition now and the team is moving forward, but they are still several steps behind all of the other great countries now imo. A lot more has to change before they are among the best again

Shenmue

I've been waiting since I was 10 years old for Part III.

Yu Suzuki has deceived us all.
Heavy rumors about a third one getting announced as soon as this e3 I posted about it in the gaming and sports section in the e3 thread, but for now I will remain cautiously optimistic lol. I don't even know what I'd do if they actually made it at this point. It seemed so hopeless for so long.

Eh, rumours have been gathering and falling for years on end though. Maybe Suzuki wanted a better platform to reach his ambition. I'll switch this discussion to the E3 thread. He cannot leave such hardcore fans hanging like that.

#Hope

by VendettaRed07 Thu May 30, 2013 1:17 am

Yeah we'll see, but I believe it might be different this time. We'll see though Razz

And also, back on topic, I think its not just there aren't enough English players in the PL, there aren't enough english players abroad either. Not only are there not enough players in their own country but there are barely any, anywhere else in the world. Thats a huge problem too. I can't even list the amount of german, spanish, brazillian, french etc, players that play outside of the league in their own country, but I can barely name any english that don't play in the PL

by RED Thu May 30, 2013 1:32 am

Clockwork Orange wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Coaching is awful, there's more to it than that but our coaches from top to bottom are horrendous.

Why is it so bad Great Leader? As usual your knowledge on such matters comes to the forefront in such debates. You continue to illuminate this forum whos light is slowly but surely fading away.
izzy wrote:Your agenda to hate everything English is boring.

Do something else.

How? Is it because I am saying my hypothesis based on my observation? Why does this get you so much?
jibers wrote:

As usual you add nothing substantial to any debate. You are a mafiosos like your club Manchester United and relish the chance at watching that man Moyes sink your club to nothingness
AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:Still more world cups than the Netherlands tbf.

I don't see how this is relevant. Then again I expect little from a Juventino. I am sure you are doping in your room as you typed this post. A dog mirrors its master.

Arquitescu wrote:Dutch speaking of terrible football when they haven't won a World Cup compared to England and have a 2nd rate league compared to the PL.

Not the best position to criticize English Football no matter how ugly it is.

hmmm. Ajax outplayed your champions last season both home and away in the champions league. The Eredivisie suffers because there is no money and all our talent are poached. We haven't won a world cup but our football is what has influenced teams such as your Milan side under Saachi, Barcelona and Bayern Munchen of late. Even Dortmund follow our methods. We left a legacy in both tactics, footballing principles and philosophy. We have had a bigger mark on footballs evolution than any other nation in the sport. I expected much better from you Arquitecto.

I am guessing the name change is a signal of a shift in your once great self. Only a matter of time before the negativity of Calcio ate away at your logic.

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:Because some genius revolutionised the English game with the ethos that getting as close to the goal as quickly as possible = most chance of success. This is certainly not how the English invented the game as someone suggested

Hmmm. The coahces in England are terrible. It is no wonder that the top 4 clubs are never coached by any English managers. The period of 'English Domination' ironically was caused by importing foreign talent due to the explosion of money and tactical revolutions caused by Rafael Benitez, Arsene Wenger and the one who must not be named. I know about Herbert Chapman's influence on this sport and I am sure he is rolling in his grave at the state of football in his country. Luckily, Mr Wenger is still following his methods. I applaud him and I truly hope trophies come soon.

Take it easy, troll. Stop trying to go against everybody.

by Jay29 Thu May 30, 2013 1:33 am

VendettaRed07 wrote:It was a bit of an exaggeration but I just mean I just think that the current system the way players are developed and selected is broken. A lot of the time players are set up to fail, players are bought for crazy prices putting all sorts of pressure on them for a big club that doesn't really even need a player with their exact attributes just wanted someone english. or atleast thats how it seems to shake out most of the time. But if they aren't put in that situation or don't get picked up but United, City, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Newcastle or Everton, odds of them making the national team are close to zero. That might seem like a long list of teams, but when each of them only really has like.. 3 or 4 english players at most that get any sort of playing time, thats not a whole lot to choose from.

They are in transition now and the team is moving forward, but they are still several steps behind all of the other great countries now imo. A lot more has to change before they are among the best again

While that's certainly an issue, it's one that is entirely down to the clubs that end up paying so much money. The FA can't turn around and tell, for example, Manchester United to cancel their transfer of Wilfried Zaha because it's too much money for a young player.

Unfortunately, the top clubs have set an unwanted precedent for dishing out huge sums of money for English talent and selling clubs use that to their advantage. For example, Southampton knew they had a good chance of getting £15mil for Chamberlain as he was considered a talent on the level of Walcott, who they sold for £12mil previously.

It's not a problem that'll go away anytime soon, either, especially not with the Premier League clubs getting richer and richer.

And also, back on topic, I think its not just there aren't enough English players in the PL, there aren't enough english players abroad either. Not only are there not enough players in their own country but there are barely any, anywhere else in the world. Thats a huge problem too. I can't even list the amount of german, spanish, brazillian, french etc, players that play outside of the league in their own country, but I can barely name any english that don't play in the PL

The key though is that a lot of foreign players develop and make their names in their home countries before going abroad where they can make more money or receive more exposure. English players don't feel the need to move abroad as conditions are so favourable; they get paid well, they get regular exposure and the level of football is high.

While it'd be nice to have English players playing in Spain, Germany or Italy so that they could experience different playing styles and coaching methods, I don't think it's much of an issue for the development of young players.

by LuckAndWin Thu May 30, 2013 4:16 am

Three Lions getting old? Very Happy

The era also changed.

But we should admit 1 thing, English Premier League still the no.1 till today.

by Fuchsteufelswild Thu May 30, 2013 4:59 am

They bought the 1966 World Cup and have been cursed ever since.

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